Sauber

[Prince.M5]

Hang on a second, time out, irrelevant? IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO I SUPPOSE WHAT HE TRIED TO DO TO NAKAJIMA WAS IRRELEVANT?

I SUPPOSE WHAT HE TRIED TO DO TO JENSON BUTTON WAS IRRELEVANT?

I SUPPOSE YOU ALSO THINK, YOU ALSO THINK THAT IT IS OKAY TO LET HIM DO ALL OF THAT DANGEROUS STUFF AND GET AWAY WITH IT?

Well if that is going to be your attitude, if that is going to be your idea of Formula One, maybe, just maybe, there are serious problems with your philosphy!

Oh, and i am not stating for him to be injured or get killed, i am stating that he is a bit of a Kamikaze driver, GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Owh come on, give him a break mate! It was just his first F1 race and you know the feeling right? I supposed that the races in GP2 is even more agrresive than an F1 so that's why he was bloody aggresive that day. Was he driving like a mad man in Abu Dhabi?? From my eyes, no. Also, that really shows that he has a bright future ahead!! I like him so?? He was immediately linked to the race seat and he lacked of time to know the rules etc.

I know he's a bit of a Kamikaze, he has a spirit of racing and so?? Your GIF is a bit violent IMO. GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ian Poole]

Owh come on, give him a break mate! It was just his first F1 race and you know the feeling right? I supposed that the races in GP2 is even more agrresive than an F1 so that's why he was bloody aggresive that day. Was he driving like a mad man in Abu Dhabi?? From my eyes, no. Also, that really shows that he has a bright future ahead!! I like him so?? He was immediately linked to the race seat and he lacked of time to know the rules etc.

I know he's a bit of a Kamikaze, he has a spirit of racing and so?? Your GIF is a bit violent IMO. GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

What if he had killed Nakajima then? Would you be defending him then? What if he had cost Jenson Button the world title at Brazil, would you be defending him them? What if he had what he did to one of your BMW drivers? Would you be defending him to the hill then?

Yes, he might have lacked time, yes, he might not have known the rules but that doesn't give him ANY right to pull some of the crap that he did.

If that was Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alson doing what he did, the amount of stick they woulkd be getting would be off the chart.

And IMO, if you put kamikaze and spirit or racing in the same sentence, that has to be the most unintelligent thing I have heard!

 

[Peter]

But he didn't . Like what was said before, he's a rookie, and it was his first race, he doesn't know much about rules, so he would be excused. You can't compare him to Schumcher, whose been in the sport for 15 years and has 7 world titles to his name. We would have to expect better of him. Your argument is invalid.

 

[Prince.M5]

What if he had killed Nakajima then? Would you be defending him then? What if he had cost Jenson Button the world title at Brazil, would you be defending him them? What if he had what he did to one of your BMW drivers? Would you be defending him to the hill then?

Yes, he might have lacked time, yes, he might not have known the rules but that doesn't give him ANY right to pull some of the crap that he did.

If that was Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alson doing what he did, the amount of stick they woulkd be getting would be off the chart.

And IMO, if you put kamikaze and spirit or racing in the same sentence, that has to be the most unintelligent thing I have heard!

Owkey first of all, calm down. I'm not using my first language obviously. That is racing mate, you've been paid to do whatever that you can show on the track and don't waste your talents (but of course rules still rules). If someone got killed during the race, then it's not my problem. The thing is though, it's not his fault either. He was racing but just a little bit too far off the rules. He lacked of ecperience and he lacked of time to learn the rules as I stated up there.

LOL if Jenson lost his WC title because of the battle, you should think twice. If he losts it, it's his luck, that he had to battle with Kamui. Same goes to if he did something to either my BMW drivers.

Errmm.. Kamikaze means he would do anything for his team that worked real hard, giving him opputurnity to race and to his father etc. (or in Japanese means that he would suicide himdelf for his own Nation). I pointed out racing spirit because, the main point of this is because he has a SPIRIT OF RACING and he can do very well out there and he loves racing soo much but still can be include in the Kamikaze so pardon me.

 

[Ardius]

Oh, and i am not stating for him to be injured or get killed, i am stating that he is a bit of a Kamikaze driver, GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh really?

Because this is what Kobayshi is like

Yeah, fastly heading for the door

Because he is gonna be at the back at the grid doing nothing

Don't see you saying that anywhere there.

Might want to get a new keyboard too, you appear to have a broken caps lock key.

 

[Ian Poole]

Might want to get a new keyboard too, you appear to have a broken caps lock key.

I kept it on intentionally

 

[Ardius]

I kept it on intentionally

Please take a hint and stop arguing for no reason.

 

[Alex.]

This is by far one of the most irrelevant posts I've ever seen on whole . You're not giving any reasons for your arguments nor are you really contributing to our posts. Inserting that gif has no reason at all and it seems like you wish something bad to happen to Kobayashi. 👎 What you did is violating the rules shown in this thread. Adding pictures, gifs and things thelike is even more of a violation.

Don't feed the troll now.

 

[Only_in_f1]

http://www.turn-two-motorsport-hub....ects-sauber-drive-decision-next-week-t466.htm

 

[Bram Turismo]

Please, God, please make that happen!

What if he had killed Nakajima then?

Are we talking about the bit where Kobayashi closed the door on Nakajima and crashed into his front wing? How exactly is that killing him?

 

[P1]

What if he had killed Nakajima then? Would you be defending him then? What if he had cost Jenson Button the world title at Brazil, would you be defending him them? What if he had what he did to one of your BMW drivers? Would you be defending him to the hill then?

Yes, he might have lacked time, yes, he might not have known the rules but that doesn't give him ANY right to pull some of the crap that he did.

If that was Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alson doing what he did, the amount of stick they woulkd be getting would be off the chart.

And IMO, if you put kamikaze and spirit or racing in the same sentence, that has to be the most unintelligent thing I have heard!

I would praise him if he had done.

 

[Watchman]

Hang on a second, time out, irrelevant? IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO I SUPPOSE WHAT HE TRIED TO DO TO NAKAJIMA WAS IRRELEVANT?

I SUPPOSE WHAT HE TRIED TO DO TO JENSON BUTTON WAS IRRELEVANT?

I SUPPOSE YOU ALSO THINK, YOU ALSO THINK THAT IT IS OKAY TO LET HIM DO ALL OF THAT DANGEROUS STUFF AND GET AWAY WITH IT?

Well if that is going to be your attitude, if that is going to be your idea of Formula One, maybe, just maybe, there are serious problems with your philosphy!

Oh, and i am not stating for him to be injured or get killed, i am stating that he is a bit of a Kamikaze driver, GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was talking about your post when I said it was irrelevant. Buy a new keyboard or learn how to use the caps lock.

It has already been said:

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Pardon the off-topic post, but Bertrand Baguette reckons he's a dead cert for a role with Sauber next season.

 

[Ardius]

I reckon Baguette for test driver, Heidfeld for first driver.

Renault will get Ho Pin Tung.

 

[Alex.]

Hang on a second, time out, irrelevant? IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO I SUPPOSE WHAT HE TRIED TO DO TO NAKAJIMA WAS IRRELEVANT?

I SUPPOSE WHAT HE TRIED TO DO TO JENSON BUTTON WAS IRRELEVANT?

I SUPPOSE YOU ALSO THINK, YOU ALSO THINK THAT IT IS OKAY TO LET HIM DO ALL OF THAT DANGEROUS STUFF AND GET AWAY WITH IT?

Well if that is going to be your attitude, if that is going to be your idea of Formula One, maybe, just maybe, there are serious problems with your philosphy!

Oh, and i am not stating for him to be injured or get killed, i am stating that he is a bit of a Kamikaze driver, GET IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Take a chill pill
2. What happens in F1 is absolutely nothing to do with you and if the drivers thought that Kobayashi was driving dangrously he would be reported,
3. He pwned button 2 races in a row and I cheered
4. He's an exciting new driver
5. and yes, we will let him get away 'WITH DOING ALL THAT DANGEROUS STUFF' because what has it to do with us? Nothing.
6. Take another chill pill
7. Stop acting like such a child

What if he had killed Nakajima then? Would you be defending him then? What if he had cost Jenson Button the world title at Brazil, would you be defending him them? What if he had what he did to one of your BMW drivers? Would you be defending him to the hill then?

Yes, he might have lacked time, yes, he might not have known the rules but that doesn't give him ANY right to pull some of the crap that he did.

If that was Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alson doing what he did, the amount of stick they woulkd be getting would be off the chart.

And IMO, if you put kamikaze and spirit or racing in the same sentence, that has to be the most unintelligent thing I have heard!

1. F1 cars are much too safe for Nakajima to be killed in such an incident
2. If he cost Jenson Button the championship I would have laughed for days
3. If he did that to one of my drivers I'd be less happy but still be pleased we have a new kid who takes no s*it. Hey look it's the new world champion, coming past? No I dont think so!
4. If he was a kamikaze driver he wouldn't have braked at turn 1.


Tantrum over now? 💡

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I reckon Baguette for test driver, Heidfeld for first driver.

Heidfeld had better move quick - he might be hanging out for a Mercedes drive, but Mercedes have said they're going to wait until the new year. Michael Schumacher has admitted that a comeback is "very, very, very likely" according to Luca di Montezemolo, but he needs a clean bill of health first. Heidfeld might want to wait until the eleventh hour, but he needs to guess when that eleventh hour will be because Peter Sauber might not be willing to wait until Mercedes have made up their minds.

 

[Alex.]

Ham AND a Baguette in the F1 field. Who'd a thought it

 

[daan]

Ham AND a Baguette in the F1 field. Who'd a thought it

To be reported on by Caroline Cheese

 

[PeterJB]

I would praise him if he had done.

Me too!

 

[Ian Poole]

Don't feed the troll now.

It has already been said:

7. Stop acting like such a child

Tantrum over now?

...........................................

Heidfeld had better move quick - he might be hanging out for a Mercedes drive, but Mercedes have said they're going to wait until the new year.

Yahoo are already saying that a deal is pretty close with Schumacher and if Heidfeld is going to come back, his only hope is going to be the vacant Sauber team or as one of the drivers for USF1 to join that other driver that no one knows about.

 

[Ardius]

Heidfeld had better move quick - he might be hanging out for a Mercedes drive, but Mercedes have said they're going to wait until the new year. Michael Schumacher has admitted that a comeback is "very, very, very likely" according to Luca di Montezemolo, but he needs a clean bill of health first. Heidfeld might want to wait until the eleventh hour, but he needs to guess when that eleventh hour will be because Peter Sauber might not be willing to wait until Mercedes have made up their minds.

To be fair - we don't know what is really happening, for all we know Heidfeld has already signed for Sauber and its just not been announced yet (yes I know, it would have been if it had happened, but that doesn't mean we know for sure).
So I'm not going to say whether Heidfeld should move quick and in any case, is Peter Sauber really going to give up waiting and sign a rookie? I think not, he will wait as long as he needs, Baguette isn't going anywhere and if I was Peter I would be waiting as long as possible if it meant signing Heidfeld.

The only way I see there being an urgency is if Peter doesn't hold Nick in high regard, which I find hard to believe.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Heidfelds options are pretty narrow now, Sauber must be his best - or at least 'most comfortable' option.

This is a shame IMO, some may say he's mediocre at best, and yes his results in isolation aren't stellar, but he's never had the best machinery underneath him. He's also had some notable team mates (Massa and Kimi for instance) - and he's pretty much beaten them all. He is a fast, consistent, focused, fit and experienced driver, he doesn't carry a big ego or a big price tag and would be a perfect driver for any team at least in the 'second driver' role.

If he leaves F1 I think BMW would be wise to keep him onboard as a factory driver.

 

[Ardius]

I think Heidfeld is off to Renault, I mean its either there or USF1. Apparently Toro Rosso are interested in his services though (which is why they haven't confirmed Alguesuari).

Sauber are in desperate need of money and Heidfeld brings none, he is a paid driver not a pay driver.
Renault now appear to have some security and may be more willing to hire him, if Genii were going to bring in Ho Pin Tung, they would have announced it be now.

I guess also Baguette is out of the running at Sauber now other than as a test driver, Peter is unlikely to field 2 rookies.

I wouldn't recommend staying with BMW unless he wants to retire from F1. DTM or Le Mans would be his only options then!

 

[Bram Turismo]

He's also had some notable team mates (Massa and Kimi for instance) - and he's pretty much beaten them all.

In Raikkonen's defense Heidfeld had a year of experience to back him up against Raikkonen, and in Massa's case Heidfeld had been driving for Sauber for already a season. Defeating a rookie isn't that impressive, he got beaten by Kubica last year although Kubica still was a relative newbie. Heidfeld never impressed me, and I honestly think new younger drivers deserve a seat more than him. With exeptions of paid drivers that only bring havoc to the team, as in Piquet Jr.'s case.

 

[Ardius]

Heidfeld is a solid and fast driver, he is quite simple. He is not exciting, he hasn't pulled lots of crazy overtakes, dominated races or caused massive crashes. He just gets the job done very well.

At the end of the day, he is the perfect driver for any racing team, doesn't take huge risks, brings the car back in one piece and usually in a good finishing position. He is not a big name driver but he is the backbone of a team's results, so he may not be exciting to sponsors either but he keeps them interested with results.

In my mind if I was a team principal, he would always be on my list for 2nd driver for these reasons. Stick the star driver or rookie in the other car for the excitement, and let Heidfeld bring in the solid results.
I rate him ahead of Trulli, Fisichella, Kovalainen and that flock. I even rate him higher than Kubica because Robert has been so rubbish in bad cars. Kubica actually runs the risk of becoming more obscure than Nick if he has another bad year at Renault. He has the speed but he's not proven himself yet, he's always been on the edge of elevating to the top group of drivers - especially after 2008 - but he's faltered. Becoming a bit of a Jean Alesi in some respects, but Jean had more magic races....

Well, anyway, Heidfeld deserves a few more years yet, especially in the new teams or teams that have fallen from grace lately (like Renault), especially with the testing ban, new drivers are more of a risk than ever. If we're going to ditch old drivers, Trulli has had his time now I think. But people like Heidfeld and Barrichello are still in their prime...why on earth should they not get a seat?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Heidfeld never impressed me, and I honestly think new younger drivers deserve a seat more than him.

He's not an in your face kind of driver, I agree with Ardius, he gets the job done with minimal fuss.

The weak link in the equation is really only going to be the car, or the driver.

Some drivers can only get 95% out of their cars, some cars can only give 95% back... but if you're a good driver, you are always capable of delivering 100% of the cars performance (you could argue that the great drivers get 110% out, but that is obviously impossible ). For me, that's where Nick sits - he will always get 100% of what the car is capable of. Obviously he struggled in 2008, largely due to poor qually performance, but he showed in 2009 that he was able to adapt to the car far better than the less experienced Kubica could - Nick also played the team game well, he kept his mouth pretty much shut and did his job, Kubica seemed too keen to complain to the press that BMW weren't performing well enough.

I could genuinely have cried for Nick when Rob won in Canada... I'm a massive fan of BMW (as some will have noticed), and I'll take a win from anywhere it comes, yeah I was glad that Kubica won... but If Nick was ever going to win a race, that was it - and it didn't happen.

 

[Sharky.]

Heidfeld is a solid and fast driver, he is quite simple. He is not exciting, he hasn't pulled lots of crazy overtakes, dominated races or caused massive crashes. He just gets the job done very well.

At the end of the day, he is the perfect driver for any racing team, doesn't take huge risks, brings the car back in one piece and usually in a good finishing position. He is not a big name driver but he is the backbone of a team's results, so he may not be exciting to sponsors either but he keeps them interested with results.

This.

With Kobayashi as the other driver, Sauber has a guy who's willing to put his life car on the line (and other peoples', lol) to get the best result he can. Kamui is a very exciting if slightly reckless driver, and to complement that Sauber needs someone who can put in solid performances, not make any reckless overtakes and score a points on a consistent basis.

That man is... Nick Heidfeld.

Koby + de la Rosa: one guy who has a huge pair of balls and goes for some pretty optimistic passes, and one guy who, well... sucks.

de la Rosa scored 19 points in his eight races for McLaren in 2006. That's barely two per race, and one of those finishes was a second place, so he only really managed 11 points in seven. Being able to finish =/= being able to finish well.

In 2007, Heidfeld had a lot of 4th, 5th and 6ths, plus two podiums. He ended up P5 overall - the epitome of consistency. It's a driver like that that should be Kobayashi's teammate. One to consistently score a couple of points each race (Nick), and one to potentially score big every once in a while (Kamui). de la Rosa simply won't score full stop.

 

[Ardius]

In de la Rosa's defence, I was quite impressed with him back in 2000 with Arrows when they had a decent car. And he was never going to do much at Jaguar with all the internal politics there, it was never a stable team nor did they have a great car (ironically the only decent Jaguar wasn't called a Jaguar).
His races for McLaren were ok but I will agree I wouldn't have picked him for skill at his age, but as I've already said, Sauber needs money and Nick doesn't bring any.
Also I wouldn't call Kobayashi reckless just yet, other than some slightly dodgy moving in braking zones at Brazil, his overtaking has been clean. Aggressive overtaking, yes, but he didn't touch his opponent or run wide or anything, he was on the edge and held it there - another reason why he is quite impressive as a rookie.

I'm sure he may end up in some reckless moves eventually, but he's so far been an aggressive but talented driver, but 2 races is not long enough to provide an opportunity for him to do something stupid yet.

Oh and lastly, one final point about Heidfeld - I recall similar critcisms of Button, especially around the time of his fiasco with Williams contracts. He was seen as an ordinary, consistent driver who didn't deserve a top seat. Yet look at him now, the only difference is Button managed to make a name for himself with some pretty good cars.

 

[Sharky.]

Yeah... reckless wasn't quite the word I was looking for; my mind went blank when trying to find an adjective describing Koby. Aggressive was what I was meaning.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

This.

With Kobayashi as the other driver, Sauber has a guy who's willing to put his life car on the line (and other peoples', lol) to get the best result he can. Kamui is a very exciting if slightly reckless driver, and to complement that Sauber needs someone who can put in solid performances, not make any reckless overtakes and score a points on a consistent basis.

That man is... Nick Heidfeld.

Koby + de la Rosa: one guy who has a huge pair of balls and goes for some pretty optimistic passes, and one guy who, well... sucks.

de la Rosa scored 19 points in his eight races for McLaren in 2006. That's barely two per race, and one of those finishes was a second place, so he only really managed 11 points in seven. Being able to finish =/= being able to finish well.

In 2007, Heidfeld had a lot of 4th, 5th and 6ths, plus two podiums. He ended up P5 overall - the epitome of consistency. It's a driver like that that should be Kobayashi's teammate. One to consistently score a couple of points each race (Nick), and one to potentially score big every once in a while (Kamui). de la Rosa simply won't score full stop.

In a perfect world, Peter Sauber would pick his drivers based on their driving ability and their driving ability alone.

However, this is not a perfect world. Sauber no longer have PETRONAS sponsoring them, and they were considered one of the most lucrative deals to get. They're reportedly paying fifty million dollars to Mercedes. The loss of that money is going to hurt Sauber. So if he has to take a pay driver or two, he will. Because without money, they cannot race. Nick Heidfeld would not bring any money to the team; hell, he'd expect to be paid by Sauber, not the other way around.

Peter Sauber has to pick the two best drivers for his team, based on more than simply their ability. If he's got a cash flow problem, then the cash a driver can bring is going to be one of the factors in making his driver decision. For all we know, he said that Heidfeld will not be one of his drivers because he knows something we don't: rumours have popped up linking him to the second Renault seat, while Bild reckon he'll become a test driver for Mercedes.

It's hardly a crime if Heidfeld isn't on the grid next season. It's not he's on par with Alonso or Hamilton.