Sauber

[Sharky.]

It's hardly a crime if Heidfeld isn't on the grid next season. It's not he's on par with Alonso or Hamilton.

Why don't you rate Heidfeld? Sure, he's not the most interesting driver, but he is a very solid driver that doesn't do anything stupid. He doesn't have the record for most consecutive race finishes from pootling around the back for three seasons.

He's a lot like Button. In a mediocre car, he does the best he can, which is the middle/bottom end of the points. Look what happened when a certain R. Brawn gave Button his 2009 car... I'm sure if Nick was given a car like that, he'd finally get his first F1 win and then some.

Also, you're making out that Sauber would end up broke if they signed Heidfeld. Heidfeld isn't stupid, he'd take a lesser-paying contract if it got him a drive this year. There's also no point signing a driver that will bring you a truckload of sponsorship moolah if all he'll be doing is circulating around in last place, laps off the pace; by having some good results you can attract sponsors (funny that), just like Brawn managed last year. Besides, Panasonic is (supposedly) sponsoring Kobayashi, so Sauber has some $$$ already.


If Peter Sauber doesn't sign Nick... he's an idiot.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If Peter Sauber doesn't sign Nick... he's an idiot.

I'm told the two don't get along. Not rightly sure as to why that might be, though I can guess they may have had a falling-out duing Heidfeld's last season with them. It does beg the question, thouh - if you were Peter Sauber, would you sign a driver that you didn't like personally?

 

[Tired Tyres]

I think Nick Heidfeld is the reason BMW had such a rubbish season in 2009. He was blown away by Kubica in 2008 and complained that the car didn't work for him. Therefore BMW, who had decided to stop development of the 2008 car to concentrate on the 2009 car, instead spend their time getting the 2008 car to work for Heidfeld.

 

[Ardius]

I think Nick Heidfeld is the reason BMW had such a rubbish season in 2009. He was blown away by Kubica in 2008 and complained that the car didn't work for him. Therefore BMW, who had decided to stop development of the 2008 car to concentrate on the 2009 car, instead spend their time getting the 2008 car to work for Heidfeld.

Of course, it wasn't anything to do with KERS or double diffusers was it? 👎

 

[Tired Tyres]

I meant in terms of lack of time developing the 2009 car.

 

[Ardius]

I don't get quite what you mean there, they ditched 2008 quite late in the season and although it didn't benefit Kubica, it wasn't exactly a bad decision at the time.
I don't see how Heidfeld can be blamed for them building a car around KERS. BMW aren't really at fault either - no one knew KERS was going to be a dud. Once they had done that (plus the DDD) their 2009 car was badly flawed and was never going to regain much pace. It did eventually and scored some decent results, but I don't see what Heidfeld could have done to make the car any better.

What more time could they have used to develop the car? Wasn't it Kubica who was complaining they should have focused on 2008 longer?

I don't actually blame BMW for their bad 2009 season, but I do think it was bad of them to leave because it wasn't going according to their "plan". (although the recession helped).

 

[Bram Turismo]

If Peter Sauber doesn't sign Nick... he's an idiot.

Actually, I'd praise him signing on a rookie. I don't understand either why he is looking at a Wurz or De la Rosa option, but as Ardius mentioned, Sauber needs money. Kobayashi more than probably brought along a few sponsors and some money from Toyota since Toyota did as much as they can to get their drivers signed at other teams, hence why I think Kobayashi and Glock got their seat fairly quick and easy.

As for experience, I don't think Peter Sauber's first priority is experience. Peter Sauber has been around in the F1 circus for many years now, he probably is more looking for experienced team members than he is looking for experienced drivers. If I were Peter Sauber, I'd just take the gamble and sign a rookie that comes with enough money, like Baguette. But Baguette probably is better off as a test driver for a year, as he has mentioned himself. I'd without any doubt seriously consider Heidfeld, but I think other new drivers more deserve that seat as it is time for a new generation of drivers. New young talents will never get their shot at it when some of the oldest drivers without any astounding results keep the racing seats occupied. (Trulli, Barrichello, Heidfeld. Although Barrichello has never been so fast as now...)

 

[MatskiMonk]

In terms of value for money, IMO, Heidfeld is a no-brainer for most teams, Barrichello would be an equally good choice, plenty of experience, fast, consistent and.. cheap..

Full list of F1 2009 driver salaries:
1. Kimi Raikkonen $45m
2. Lewis Hamilton $18m
3. Fernando Alonso $15m
4. Nico Rosberg $8.5m
5. Felipe Massa $8m
6. Jarno Trulli $6.5m
7. Sebastian Vettel $6m
8. Mark Webber $5.5m
9. Jenson Button $5m
10. Robert Kubica $4.5m
11. Heikki Kovalainen $3.5m
12. Nick Heidfeld $2.8m
13. Timo Glock $2m
14. Giancarlo Fisichella $1.5m
15. Sébastien Buemi $1.5m
16. Rubens Barrichello $1m
17. Jaime Alguersuari $0.5m
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi $Nil
19. Adrian Sutil $Nil
20. Romain Grosjean $Nil
21. Kazuki Nakajima $Nil

I meant in terms of lack of time developing the 2009 car.

BMW clearly stated in Mario's plan for the F1 team, that the objective in 2008 was to be challenging for wins, with Kubicas win at Montreal the goal was acheived. They were highly unlikely to take either title that year, so they stopped development of the F1.08 to get as far ahead as possible on the F1.09 - a senesible move considering the radical rule changes for 09. Yes it's true that Heidfelds performance in 08 wasn't brilliant, he failed to qualify where he needed to and therefore struggled to get the results. BMW did attempt to rectify the problem, but to nowhere near the extent they had to modify the F1.09 to cope with Roberts extra weight and higher centre of gravity! Now, there's no doubting the F1.09 was a lemon (The Kers system wasn't great and they couldn't use it with Rob to begin with, the diffuser issues caused them alot of problems too) so 2009 was probably a write off anyway, once the announcement came they were exiting F1 all bets were off and they may aswell have turned up to race with my clapped out old 5 series.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Keep in mind though that Peter Sauber needs drivers to deliver him money, as a new team with a small budget you really want to avoid spending huge amounts of money paying your drivers.

 

[Ardius]

In terms of value for money, IMO, Heidfeld is a no-brainer for most teams, Barrichello would be an equally good choice, plenty of experience, fast, consistent and.. cheap..

Full list of F1 2009 driver salaries:
1. Kimi Raikkonen $45m
2. Lewis Hamilton $18m
3. Fernando Alonso $15m
4. Nico Rosberg $8.5m
5. Felipe Massa $8m
6. Jarno Trulli $6.5m
7. Sebastian Vettel $6m
8. Mark Webber $5.5m
9. Jenson Button $5m
10. Robert Kubica $4.5m
11. Heikki Kovalainen $3.5m
12. Nick Heidfeld $2.8m
13. Timo Glock $2m
14. Giancarlo Fisichella $1.5m
15. Sébastien Buemi $1.5m
16. Rubens Barrichello $1m
17. Jaime Alguersuari $0.5m
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi $Nil
19. Adrian Sutil $Nil
20. Romain Grosjean $Nil
21. Kazuki Nakajima $Nil

Thats odd, I thought Nick was being paid more than Kubica by BMW. Well I guess none of these numbers are ever very accurate and are mostly guess work.

You miss the point that Sauber are no longer BMW....they have no money behind them anymore, Petronas have gone to Mercedes and Red Bull are not coming back.
Whereas before they could afford to hire drivers with salaries, now they need money desperately. Anyone with sponsors and backing behind them will be picked before drivers without. Nick doesn't bring anything, at best Pedro is at least experienced and brings money, Peter doesn't want two rookies even if they both brought money.

The fact they have gone back to Ferrari supply says a lot too - Peter has used his previous relationship with them to bring a deal forward, most probably a deal which includes some kind of reduction on the engines in exchange for something. Be that Fisichella, an agreement to run young-Ferrari drivers or just to help develop the engines.

If you look back at the history of almost all small teams, they have tended to favour a 1 experienced, 1 rookie setup. This has usually been the most successful style too, at least until they have gained some momentum and can sign bigger drivers. Peter especially has stuck to this rule, he isn't an idiot, and if he isn't signing Heidfeld there is a very good reason for it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Rubens Barrichello is usually paid more than that - he just had to take a massive pay cut to drive for Brawn.

Preview of Sauber's car, discovered on their newly-launched website by a Japanese news channel:

 

[Bram Turismo]

Oh yeah, that's true, it's January already. The new cars should start to pop up in what, a month from now?

 

[PeterJB]

In terms of value for money, IMO, Heidfeld is a no-brainer for most teams, Barrichello would be an equally good choice, plenty of experience, fast, consistent and.. cheap..

Full list of F1 2009 driver salaries:
1. Kimi Raikkonen $45m
2. Lewis Hamilton $18m
3. Fernando Alonso $15m
4. Nico Rosberg $8.5m
5. Felipe Massa $8m
6. Jarno Trulli $6.5m
7. Sebastian Vettel $6m
8. Mark Webber $5.5m
9. Jenson Button $5m
10. Robert Kubica $4.5m
11. Heikki Kovalainen $3.5m
12. Nick Heidfeld $2.8m
13. Timo Glock $2m
14. Giancarlo Fisichella $1.5m
15. Sébastien Buemi $1.5m
16. Rubens Barrichello $1m
17. Jaime Alguersuari $0.5m
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi $Nil
19. Adrian Sutil $Nil
20. Romain Grosjean $Nil
21. Kazuki Nakajima $Nil

Why is it 'Nil' for the last four drivers? Did they get paid nothing?

 

[Ardius]

Why is it 'Nil' for the last four drivers? Did they get paid nothing?

They were paid by sponsors, these are the pay drivers.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Reports from Switzerland suggest Nestle will sponsor Sauber under their Nespresso brand - the one George Clooney endorses.

 

[PeterJB]

'Nespresso Sauber F1 Team', has a nice jingle to it!

 

[Peter]

Are the teams still going with the joint launch thing?

 

[P1]

Are the teams still going with the joint launch thing?

No they scrapped it becuase not all teams will have their cars ready in time, Merc GP will the first team launch their car the RB1 on the 25th of January.

 

[Ardius]

And some are not launching in Europe

We know that USF1, Lotus and Campos won't be making all of the test sessions. I can't remember if Virgin said they were making the first one.

 

[Bram Turismo]

No they scrapped it becuase not all teams will have their cars ready in time, Merc GP will the first team launch their car the RB1 on the 25th of January.

I knew Ross Brawn was going to implement concepts from the 2009 Red Bull on the 2010 car, but I never knew he was going to call it the same as his rivals

 

[P1]

I knew Ross Brawn was going to implement concepts from the 2009 Red Bull on the 2010 car, but I never knew he was going to call it the same as his rivals

LOL First time i saw it was called RB1 i thought it was a typo until it said it named after Ross brawn.

And some are not launching in Europe

We know that USF1, Lotus and Campos won't be making all of the test sessions. I can't remember if Virgin said they were making the first one.

Campos will be ready be for the first test session so i imagine they will do all of them.

 

[Ardius]

Campos will be ready be for the first test session so i imagine they will do all of them.

No they won't:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22023.html

"With the construction of the second chassis and enough spare parts to go testing and racing looming, Campos needs to find a large amount of money as soon as possible or risk delaying the Italian company's work even further. According to sources close to Dallara payments have been delayed, with the company slowing down the development of the car and it's now certain Campos won't be able to attend the Valencia test at the start of February even if it finds all the money it needs to run the 2010 campaign quickly."

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You'll forgive me if I take those rumours with a grain of salt - this is at least the third time Campos have been painted as being in serious trouble.

 

[Ardius]

I think the Dallara rumour is true but I'm not sure about the money problems, Senna was pretty sure about it last time they interviewed him.
Well, all will be revealed in a few weeks time, its funny that the one team that was being mocked early on is currently viewed as the strongest and the ones that looked strong early on are now the ones being questioned.

 

[darkfinal]

More weird rumors: Is that De La Rosa, without an interrogation mark, I see next to Kobayashi in the table?

http://www.blick.ch/sport/bmw-gespenst-spukt-weiter-bei-sauber-137579

(Click on Komplette Tabelle to see it.)

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think the Dallara rumour is true but I'm not sure about the money problems, Senna was pretty sure about it last time they interviewed him.
Well, all will be revealed in a few weeks time, its funny that the one team that was being mocked early on is currently viewed as the strongest and the ones that looked strong early on are now the ones being questioned.

Campos' problem seems to be that they've over-estimated the enthusiasm of potential Spainish sponsors. They need to sign Petrov or Maldonado now if they want that money to start flowing.

More weird rumors: Is that De La Rosa, without an interrogation mark, I see next to Kobayashi in the table?

http://www.blick.ch/sport/bmw-gespenst-spukt-weiter-bei-sauber-137579

(Click on Komplette Tabelle to see it.)

It's not a weird rumour - de la Rosa's name has been kicked around for days and weeks now, much to the consternation of Nick Heidfeld's fans.

 

[CAMikaze]

Reports from Switzerland suggest Nestle will sponsor Sauber under their Nespresso brand - the one George Clooney endorses.

'Nespresso Sauber F1 Team', has a nice jingle to it!

Or Sauber Nespresso if you want to go back to when Petronas was onboad as the teams major sponsor before BMW.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

De la Rosa joins Sauber:

http://press_en.bmw-sauber-f1-team.ch/2010/01/pedro-de-la-rosa-startet-im-bmw-sauber.html

 

[Tired Tyres]

De la Rose confirmed on the BBC as well.

Hard luck Heidfeld.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8467514.stm

 

[maximumattack]

I've just heard on Sky Sports News that De La Rosa has signed for Sauber.

The only option seemingly left to Heidfeld is that of a test driver, which I find a bit odd as I would have thought that Nick Heidfeld would have been closer to race sharpness than Pedro.