Searching For Evidence of Hidden Things GT1 Version

[submaniac93]

You have to tell how you got to choose what AI cars you race against

I'm very sure they all never appear in any race (such a shame, considering the game already doesn't have a lot of cars)

 

[tankuroded]

You have to tell how you got to choose what AI cars you race against

I'm very sure they all never appear in any race (such a shame, considering the game already doesn't have a lot of cars)

You have to change BOTH the body codes and car mechanics codes for the AI cars (using memory hex editor, i.e. GameShark Pro) - they are saved separately, and unlike GT2, you can change it between races. @EncounterGTR did the same thing:

 

[NoGoodNames]

Happy new year 2017 you guys! Although I don't really think GT1 research mill make the most noise in 2017 (it never does any year), here's my prediction as to what the biggest event will be in 2017 when it comes to GT1 research.

So remember the Store Demo, a pre-release NTSC-J demo playable in stores? I have a feeling somebody will get their hands on that demo, and possibly find a few beta car designs (nothing special, since the demo in question appears to be a similar build to the Trial Version).
I also have plans to expand the prototype article for this on the TCRF page.

 

[tankuroded]

To quote an old post in GT2 hidden things thread, since this is related to GT1:

Sorry. All I know is that all the dat contents seem to be compressed. I can split the @(#)GT-ARC format iles, but I've no idea how they're compressed. It's compounded by the fact that the code to decompress them is also compressed in the exe files, and I just don't care enough to figure it all out.

A while back, @Leo2236 made a viewer for GT1 cars and tracks (which allows cars/tracks textures and geometry to be dumped to be ported to another game). Unfortunately, development of it stopped with the car viewer only able to view arcade cars (CARCADE.DAT) and the track viewer only capable of viewing certain tracks without native game skybox. Maybe someone can pick up development on a new program for that? (And maybe for GT2, also)

I also have plans to expand the prototype article for this on the TCRF page.

I made that page, but haven't touched it, so feel free. I also documented the Celica performance bug here.

 

[EncounterGTR]

I made that page, but haven't touched it, so feel free. I also documented the Celica performance bug here.

This only happens in the NTSC-U and PAL versions.
The NTSC-J version seems to use correct performance:

 

[submaniac93]

Makes me want to check it myself by playing the NTSC-J version of the game... since i've always seen how the fake GT-Four handles (it could have the Corona Exiv or the Celica SS-II, since both have the same specs pretty much. I haven't checked the weight of the SSII, but I know it goes up to 326hp just like the Exiv) I'm curious to see how the real GT-Four would've handled... at least as real as a 4WD miscoded as FF car can handle.. I really wonder why PD made the oversight wih the GT-Four (copy from SS-II?), EVO III (copy from Mirage?), Galant VR4 (copy from VRG/GDi maybe?), and Pulsar GTi-R (copy from Primera?)...

 

[Stephan]

Woah. Didn't even notice that the Celica has the wrong specs and performance.

Anyways anyone who has a NTSC-J copy of GT1, did anyone tried driving the NSX GT1 Turbo? If so what's the difference between the GT1 Turbo and GT2?

 

[submaniac93]

@FilipinoGTUser1 Basically none. They both have the same transmission setup, though I don't rememeber if maybe the GT1 Turbo's is slightly longer or not... They both oversteer like crazy stock. The only difference is that the GT1 has more power (~600 I believe, like maybe 610) instead of 542 (or so).

I think the Viper GTS-R is also a lot lighter in the NTSC-J version. below 1000kg instead of 1200kg(?) in PAL/USA. That combined with nearly 700hp makes it a beast, most likely, 'cause weight has a LOT of influence on a car's handling in GT1 (unlike in GT2 where cars get more floaty as you remove weight, in GT1 thet get a lot of acceleration boost and they become a lot twitchier to drive)

 

[karelpipa]

Which is closer to real life? I think GT1, because low weight is really important and with downforce you shouldnt get floaty handling i would think

 

[submaniac93]

Well I think GT1 is a little bit exaggerated but not too far. Lighter cars (as far as I know, 'cause I haven't ever raced in real life, even if I wish I could) should be able to turn slightly quicker than heavier cars mostly because of the lesser amount of weight to transfer from side to side. Lighter weight also mean better acceleration and braking.
I tried reducing the weight to as little as possible in both GT1 and 2 back when I was experimenting with hybrids and where the change is instantly noticeable in GT1, it's a lot less noticeable in GT2.
In GT1, a 300hp car weighing 500kg wil accelerate as fast as a 600+ hp car, and will start to lift it's inside wheels when cornering, resulting in lots of bounces (like what most LM Edition cars do in that game, because of hard suspension setup). In GT2, the 300hp car will accelerate slightly faster than stock weight, and get to it's top speed a bit quicker, but like what a 350-400hp car would, more or less. It will also (sometimes) lift it's inside wheel when turning, but it feels floaty and lunar gravity-like. Almost slow motion. Light cars also start to turn a lot slower when losing weight.

You can only notice that when making hybrids really, but weight does make a huge difference that one can feel when tuning a car in GT1.

 

[Stephan]

Yes. That's why the Del Sol LM and FTO LM are the best cars because they are light plus their drivetrain makes the difference. But the Demio A-Spec on the other hand handles like a feather or a F1 car if you can handle it right plus if you can max it out.

As for heavy cars, the Chaser LM and the 3000GT/GTO LM comes to mind. Even though they are tuned for LM Edition status, they are heavy but the Chaser LM makes an exception since its FR you can negotiate the corners through slides but the GTO LM doesn't.

And for weight balanced cars like the NSX GT2, Castrol Supra GT, and Viper GTS-R, they are unpredictable. Some can handle like the FTO LM and some can handle like the GTO LM. But from my experience if the car is in FR setup like the Supra and Viper, it felt like the lighter version of the Chaser LM while NSX is a mix of both the Chaser and FTO.

 

[karelpipa]

You can get rid off the bouncing by lessening the Spring rate and Damper level to low setting. Try it on hybrids. please

 

[LeGeNd-1]

@FilipinoGTUser1 Basically none. They both have the same transmission setup, though I don't rememeber if maybe the GT1 Turbo's is slightly longer or not... They both oversteer like crazy stock. The only difference is that the GT1 has more power (~600 I believe, like maybe 610) instead of 542 (or so).

I think the Viper GTS-R is also a lot lighter in the NTSC-J version. below 1000kg instead of 1200kg(?) in PAL/USA. That combined with nearly 700hp makes it a beast, most likely, 'cause weight has a LOT of influence on a car's handling in GT1 (unlike in GT2 where cars get more floaty as you remove weight, in GT1 thet get a lot of acceleration boost and they become a lot twitchier to drive)

IIRC you have to be careful when reducing weight in GT1. Below a certain amount (<900kg I believe) your cars would become pogo sticks if you go anywhere near a kerb. The Demio, Lantis and AE86 twins are notorious for this. The NSX LM too but downforce helps it somewhat. Weirdly some cars are unaffected like the Cerbera LM and Dodge Concept Car LM even though they are very light (in American version Concept Car weight is much lighter than other versions - down to 600 ish kg I believe ).

In GT2 the bouncing effect is less pronounced. But in general the kerbs are a lot less forgiving as well. Honestly I can't remember any car that has the bouncing problem in GT2, except maybe Ford GT90 and Cerbera Speed 12, and that's only because of low ride height and stiff springs, and only really a problem on banked tracks. I don't recall cars feeling "floaty" as you reduce weight either. But yes, GT1's physics is definitely more exaggerated than 2.

 

[submaniac93]

Just like karelpipa said, it's a matter or spring rate, and actually the bouncing effect is affected more by the stiffness of the dampers and stabiliser. reducing it is good, but will make the car's turning less responsive. I've made "driveable" 500kg hybrids in GT1 by having low ride height (we're talking at most 55mm high), very soft suspension, and kinda stiff-ish dampers (so that you can actually turn) and they're fast as a devil, but I wanna say what's the point? xD
By the way, the stiff suspension setups is why AI [R] Lantis, Celica, Exiv, Accord, Primera and other FWD [R] modded cars are so slow, GT1 physics are weird like that, because too stiff suspension ratio + damper setup makes cars shake on 90% of non-perfectly flat surfaces. That's too bad 'cause they would be decent opponents otherwise...

In GT2, spring rate is what makes most race cars bounce a lot on kerbs and (simply) polygon angles in angled turns. The LMP1/GT1 cars and the TVR Speed 12 are examples of over-the-top bouncing. Have you tried racing against All-stars champ cars on Test Course? Even the AI can lose control of R390s and GT-ones on that track! (but that's because they slow down to 310kph for the turns, going over 340 removes the bouncing entirely #uselessprotip)

You can feel the floatiness only when you get below ~400kg mostly, but yeah.

 

[karelpipa]

By the way, the stiff suspension setups is why AI [R] Lantis, Celica, Exiv, Accord, Primera and other FWD [R] modded cars are so slow, GT1 physics are weird like that, because too stiff suspension ratio + damper setup makes cars shake on 90% of non-perfectly flat surfaces. That's too bad 'cause they would be decent opponents otherwise...

This has got me mad every time i play GT1, why they could not setup the cars to be able to actually drive on a track? What a shame. Should be modded ASAP.
Also for cars with too short gearing (Impreza RLLY, GTO, R32 and others from High Speed contest)

 

[submaniac93]

I know! I want to be able to look into GT1's 3d models and sound sooo bad... but sadly I can only do that in GT2 T.T

 

[EncounterGTR]

2 stuffs that i discover recently:

RR drivetrain.

IIRC, wasn't the Plymouth Prowler planned in GT1? (This one is inside GT Test Drive Files).

EDIT: Regarding the incorrect weight in the NTSC-J version of the Viper GTS-R, Cerbera LM and the Concept Car LM it's probably a glitch. When you see those cars in dealership (you need to have cheats to do so) they have the correct weight.

 

[submaniac93]

Interesting. I have heard i forget where that there was at one point supposed to be the Prowler (is it just me or is that phrasing atrociously wrong? it irks me..) in GT1. As for the RR that's cool. It wasn't used in GT1, but it makes sense that they already had plans to include it just in case.

 

[Castrol96]

I know! I want to be able to look into GT1's 3d models and sound sooo bad... but sadly I can only do that in GT2 T.T

There was a Application someone made where you can view tracks and cars from GT1.





http://lgt.createaforum.com/new-board-3/gt-car-viewer-a-tool-to-view-gt-cars/msg4/#msg4

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt-car-viewer-a-tool-to-view-gran-turismo-cars.315161/

 

[submaniac93]

I know, I have them. I meant look at them in a 3d modeling program. like how we can extract car models from GT2 from the .vol files. We can even change car sounds if we put some work into it

But GT1 is a kind of mystery right now. and I realllyyyyy want to have a look at beta models, textures and all that

I've only been able to recreate from existing GT2 model some of the old cars around a year ago and used psxVram to get the textures.

I've been planning to make the very early Concept Car/Copperhead LM but I haven't made renders of it. It's done too...

Spoiler

EDIT:

Making this post made me want to finish my Beta Copperhead LM, so here it is.

 

[Stephan]

Since we have enough people who are capable of editing GT1, is it possible to translate the Japanese version of GT1? Just imagine playing the JP version of GT1 having the original soundtrack with translated text.

 

[submaniac93]

I don't think so. Most of the text is on the different screens which are images. If we can access those images, modify them and then compile them back into the game, then maybe.

I personally don't see the use of it, but that's because I know by heart what's what in that game x)

Edit: however, I wonder if we can get the soundtrack to the other versions of the game though. If it's a separate file (for example MUSIC.BIN of something) then maybe we could have them into PAL/USA. I don't know if they would work correctly or not though. We don't know how the game decides to play each song, especially the menu soundtrack.

 

[karelpipa]

Japanese version has a file called MUSIC.DAT, i will try to copy this same file from EU version to the JP version.

(mad hacking skills)

Nice Copperhead btw, what for are those two circular things beside front lights?

 

[mwoodski]

Covers for auxiliary lights, I believe.

 

[submaniac93]

Yep, most likely light covers. Thanks to being able to get PCPX demos, I managed to get myself the copperhead's textures. There's a black version, and I found Yellow and there's a last color somewhere I didn't find yet. I think the Copperhead was supposed to have the same 3d model as the LM Edition, but different colors, just like the Viper GTS and GTS-R but with different colors. I wish they'd use the final Copperhead LM as the car's (non existant in the final) [R] mod, and this model as the LM... Which is why I want to be able to change 3d models in GT2

I want to somehow be able to get all 3 versions xD #dreams

 

[karelpipa]

Hacking failed. Debug PS3 doesn't even recognize the disc as a PS1 game and a modded PS1 freezes on NOTICE screen (All manufacturers, brands, etc...)

 

[submaniac93]

Aw. :/ I wonder how it would fare on the big 5th-letter-of-the-alphabet-one-cannot-talk-about-but-that-we-still-mention-without-outright-saying-it. I doubt we would get better results. Oh well, worth a try I guess.

 

[karelpipa]

I even tried to boot normal japanese version, go to a race, then change the CD to see if it would catch up. Nothing.

 

[Liquid]

The Demio, Lantis and AE86 twins are notorious for this.

The worst offender is the [R] Honda NSX Type S Zero which appears in the Japan vs ____ series. First race at Trial Mountain it slows to a crawl as it shakes around the track like a cart on cobblestones.

 

[submaniac93]

This o
nly happens in the NTSC-U and PAL versions.
The NTSC-J version seems to use correct performance:
View attachment 617887

I played on the JP version of GT1 yesterday and I can confirm this. It's actually faster than the Evo IV

I'll also check the AI entry lists for races, because I encountered a [R]Civic EG SiR-II on the Grand Valley 60 Laps endurance.
And also, it seems to me that skipping the qualification lap (is that how it's called in english? I'm hesitating..) actually has it happen. In the Megaspeed Cup, the Mitsubishi GTO would always start last for some reason, where in the USA/PAL, it starts 2nd behind the Skyline R33 (or 1st if it's absent) no matter what if you skip it.

EDIT: Hey! I just found something cool
When you go into the Replay Theater on the japanese version, Moon Over The Castle is the bgm :3 Pretty cool imo.


I should move this to a thread that lists the differences in versions of the game x)