Selling Cars - Let's talk about this a bit more.

[Techlet]

Exhibit A173629 why game developers have come to the conclusion that even if you give gamers what they want, they'll find a way to bitch about it so don't bother trying to please them.

The devs went out of their way to add restrictions to a feature that players have come to expect as standard out of a certain genre of games (restrictions that are new and exclusive to this feature and are inconsistent with the rest of the game's logic).

But sure it's the gamers who are wrong.

 

[Pedinhuh]

I'm still hopeful that one day we can buy cars from other players on the UCD

 

[AmyUD06]

I'm still hopeful that one day we can buy cars from other players on the UCD

If you think PD is price gouging on some of the UCD/LCD cars, wait until you see what happens if you put it in players hands. PSO2's online marketplace devolved into rare items literally selling for billions of Meseta (their in game credits).

 

[Pedinhuh]

If you think PD is price gouging on some of the UCD/LCD cars, wait until you see what happens if you put it in players hands. PSO2's online marketplace devolved into rare items literally selling for billions of Meseta (their in game credits).

If selling our cars to other players will ever be possible in this game, it's pretty obvious to me that we won't be allowed to choose how much we want our cars to be sold for.

 

[ikon_313]

If you think PD is price gouging on some of the UCD/LCD cars, wait until you see what happens if you put it in players hands. PSO2's online marketplace devolved into rare items literally selling for billions of Meseta (their in game credits).

Reminds me of the Forza franchise's auction house. Cars/liveries going for tens of millions, if not hundreds. Watching bid wars was actually quite fun. Ah, the good old times

 

[AutumnalGlow]

If you think PD is price gouging on some of the UCD/LCD cars, wait until you see what happens if you put it in players hands. PSO2's online marketplace devolved into rare items literally selling for billions of Meseta (their in game credits).

MMOs do this. Want a blue partyhat in RuneScape? Sure, if you have a few hundred billion (maybe trillions now?) to spare. Which you can only do by having other valuable items to trade, because the game has a 2.1 billion coin limit.

GT7 probably won't run into this issue because nothing is truly rare. There's no blue partyhat that was only available for a day in 2001. There's no car that won't come back in a couple months at most.

Forza's common cars sell for peanuts (ignoring the recent glitch that shut down the auction house). It's only the Playlist cars, which could disappear for more than a year if the devs never feel like bringing them back, that go for 20 million.

Edit: I guess there are some rare cars. The 25th anniversary Red Bull X2019 may be common now, but if GT7 has a long enough life it could become valuable to those who missed out.

 

[NJ72]

For all we know, the appraisal system was ready for launch and then The Bonanza™ happened. Bam! They had to program in a way to limit the NSX Gr.Billionaires

I don't think so, as the NSX price has been going up. If that was the case then the NSX price would be plummeting...

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I don't think so, as the NSX price has been going up. If that was the case then the NSX price would be plummeting...

They're probably referring to the 24 hour timer, though that definitely wouldn't take months to implement.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Just going to lay here my answer to my own thread since a few are missing the point.

The goal was to cause players frustration. The answer to both questions.

PD can never be seen as the "good guy" developer it was once in the past (if it ever was, other than making good car games during the PS1-PS2 era).

But I think this behaviour has been more than hinted at in the mid/late 2000s with Gran Turismo HD. Probably a lot of people on this forum forget or simply don't know about this because the game has been in the shadows ever since it was released.
Go search for it... And let me tell you, it wasn't the "bad guy" Sony that had the idea of "Gran Turismo HD", it was all on PD. I'm saying this because a crapton of misinformed and probably just biased towards this game and developer, are blaming most of the issues GT7 has had, and still has, to Sony...

 

[BetelgeuzeFIN]

It’s difficult for me to sometimes understand people and their desires. This has been literally one of the most asked features since game launch. True, it has always been an essential feature of GT games and I’m certainly happy to see it arriving finally. I even managed to clear some of my OCD by selling all the duplicate cars I had got from roulettes (around 10). Now I only have Manufacturers loan cars littering my well organized garage. 😂

But after all, it’s very small and insignificant feature. I don’t see any standard sensible gameplay mechanic that requires selling cars. It’s just a gimmick to get rid of those occasional duplicates. People who have already bought more cars will get slightly more duplicates obviously but not much. It’s not like GT2 or GT3 where you actually needed it all the time as normal gameplay mechanic of earning credits was much about winning races to win same cars repeatedly and selling them. We have nothing such here in GT7.

And what comes to that 24 h restriction. I don’t think anybody has got a big number of duplicates of a same car by normal gameplay. I had 3 of some Civics but that was the biggest number and was cleared in 2 days. If you have more than 10 duplicates of a same car I highly suspect you have exploited some past glitch. Naughty, naughty. 😉

 

[05XR8]

The main use of selling, is to prolong your credit before zero.

It’s difficult for me to sometimes understand people and their desires. This has been literally one of the most asked features since game launch. True, it has always been an essential feature of GT games and I’m certainly happy to see it arriving finally. I even managed to clear some of my OCD by selling all the duplicate cars I had got from roulettes (around 10). Now I only have Manufacturers loan cars littering my well organized garage. 😂

But after all, it’s very small and insignificant feature. I don’t see any standard sensible gameplay mechanic that requires selling cars. It’s just a gimmick to get rid of those occasional duplicates. People who have already bought more cars will get slightly more duplicates obviously but not much. It’s not like GT2 or GT3 where you actually needed it all the time as normal gameplay mechanic of earning credits was much about winning races to win same cars repeatedly and selling them. We have nothing such here in GT7.

And what comes to that 24 h restriction. I don’t think anybody has got a big number of duplicates of a same car by normal gameplay. I had 3 of some Civics but that was the biggest number and was cleared in 2 days. If you have more than 10 duplicates of a same car I highly suspect you have exploited some past glitch. Naughty, naughty. 😉

Uh, not really. Some of my many dupes(I had 50 AE86s for making various race series), came from doing Le Mans and Spa. The Tokyo races I did, were to try and get multi Million credit cars.
At the moment, I have 24 Sierras. Sold a lot of cars.

My stats without doing those scripts and I don’t buy MTX.

 

[BetelgeuzeFIN]

The main use of selling, is to prolong your credit before zero.

Uh, not really. Some of my many dupes(I had 50 AE86s for making various race series), came from doing Le Mans and Spa. The Tokyo races I did, were to try and get multi Million credit cars.
At the moment, I have 24 Sierras. Sold a lot of cars.

My stats without doing those scripts and I don’t buy MTX.
View attachment 1212628

Do you get same reward cars by doing some races repeatedly in GT7?

 

[05XR8]

Do you get same reward cars by doing some races repeatedly in GT7?

No. Gift cars don’t exist outside of the Menu Book. We can only race for Credits. It’s not like Past GT games where we could keep racing to get all colors of a certain reward cars.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

It’s difficult for me to sometimes understand people and their desires.

You completely missed the point. Completely...

As for the "opinion" that it's just a gimmick... Well, that's just you being completely wrong though. This doesn't apply to just cars by the way, this could've just as easily been about the parts (maybe not the special ones) from the daily roulette of despair.
I have just out of my mind about 3 or 4 solid examples that can apply to most of the playerbase where selling a car would be far more than just a gimmick.

It's really easy, but quite lenghty, to elaborate more on this subject as a whole...

-The two questions I posted in the OP...
-How the selling cars was implemented...
-How the selling aspect of this game could be better or more engaging and, more than anything, fun...
-Why the selling cars was needed for the majority of the playerbase...

But I don't think you would be interested in it, so I won't waste much more of my time. Above this, it's just really a case of thinking this through and realize it. Which I believe you can do... It really isn't that part if you think outside of the way you play the game.

Edit: I guess there are some rare cars. The 25th anniversary Red Bull X2019 may be common now, but if GT7 has a long enough life it could become valuable to those who missed out.

Remind me of this when ... you know... we can actually trade/sell/give cars between players.

 

[The OG]

Back when the NSX glitch was available I had close to 20... I thought the selling feature would never exist and was annoyed with all the duplicates I just deleted them from my garage... I kinda regret it now since the selling feature exists but at the same time I have all the cars already... I guess the money woulda been good for tuning all my cars

 

[Pizzicato1985]

I think the 24h wait to sell duplicates is related to the appraisal system they implemented. My guess is: somehow selling multiple copies of the same car would influence the system, which I'm curious to understand the mathematics behind it.

The NSX Gr. B was up 2.1%, I think, a day or two ago and if the system was based on the number of people selling cars the NSX's price should be bottomed-out for months. So its just simulating market fluctuation, kind of like how the roulette is a pastiche of a roulette but in reality is pre-determined from the moment one gets the ticket.

Although I suppose its possible the market price is different for everyone based on their personal sales? Just occurred to me that it might not be global/server-wide. Did anyone else see the NSX Gr. B price up ~2% in the last few days?

 

[OldandSlow]

PD's "market price" is nonsense. PD is tracking daily car sales worldwide? Yeah, sure thing. Just a method to drive engagement.

I am glad we have it, though. It enables me to sell back the cars I don't want and get credits. for them. I sold back a Veneno that I won today.

 

[ShiftingGears]

They've introduced selling begrudgingly, because it gets in the way of them selling microtransactions.

Only selling one dupe a day is of course a lazy workaround for bad game design.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

Back when the NSX glitch was available I had close to 20... I thought the selling feature would never exist and was annoyed with all the duplicates I just deleted them from my garage... I kinda regret it now since the selling feature exists but at the same time I have all the cars already... I guess the money woulda been good for tuning all my cars

You can sell the cars that you don't like, don't use. Your collector catalog of cars will remain the same, you only need to acquire the car in any way and it counts towards the progress of getting them.

I, for example, have got all the cars in the game and thus the 100% collector progress. Ever since I noticed that we don't get our progress reset by selling a car, I decided to sell almost all of the near 50 VGTs in my garage (not even counting duplicates) and since we get about 300-600k for each of them, that's quite a nice amount of credits to tune my other cars.
Also sold most of the Gr.B/3/4 cars that I don't use either, which is another minimum 90k-200k per car and there's also about 60 or more of those.

I am glad we have it, though. It enables me to sell back the cars I don't want and get credits. for them. I sold back a Veneno that I won today.

See? Selling cars isn't just about duplicates, it's about selling cars that you don't want, period. This guy^ won the most expensive car on Brand Central, he either already had it or just didn't like it, and sold it for probably close to 1.5-2 million credits.

Another case of the selling car feature being useful?

Let's go buy one of the 20 million cars. Quite a hefty investment isn't? Now imagine you came to regret driving the car, even after applying mods and tuning it. Instead of keeping that crap that you will not use in your garage, you can now sell it and get 50% or thereabouts of those 20 million.

Selling cars in Gran Turismo is far from a gimmick, it simply can't even be one, when tuning and buying the actual cars comes into play and the grind is ridiculous. Or you simply want to have the cars you like in your garage and not all of them, and instead of discarding them for nothing, you get some credits to help you in either buying another car or tune it.

They've introduced selling begrudgingly, because it gets in the way of them selling microtransactions.

Only selling one dupe a day is of course a lazy workaround for bad game design.

Precisely.

 

[fastone371]

I think it would be kind of funny if the selling price of cars dropped as more and more of the same model were sold. For example if PD had a glitch and I were to win a crap load of GRB NSX's and sold them all that after a couple were sold the price dropped to like 5% of the original value. If I were to take advantage of a glitch like that I probably would have simply deleted the NSX's and just been happy with all of the engines I acquired.

 

[missilefest]

The basic ability to sell cars makes me want to start completely over. It didn't feel like a normal Gran Turismo experience the whole play through.

 

[GleepGlop]

The long wait for selling cars was so they could program sophisticated price modeling that takes into consideration real geopolitical factors - in fact they could barely get it to run on base PS4. Kaz is a perfectionist - this should be no surprise that this selling car feature is in fact being studied by top minds as it is the most ground-breaking selling cars feature of any PS4 exclusive Real Driving Simulator, Turismo-Stranding type game.

 

[B80]

How is this a restriction, realistically how many copies of a car can a player own unless he was extremely lucky with the wheel, or he for some reason ended up buying several copies of a car in the used car shop.

Lets say 5! that is 5 days to sell every last one of those cars in a game that is 270 days old and the player would have played it for many hours and days to get 5 copies of the same car, considering this a restriction is weird.

Unless the player took a stupid amount of his time on earth to exploit a bug and get 100s of the same cars then it might feel like a restriction because he got played by PD, hahahaha :-)

Tbh anyone who abused the glitch, particularly if using the script, is probably loaded (gamewise) anyway now. What with money made from tge glitch and now all the other cars, not just the nsx...

I've got around 80 amgs to sell, after it went off piste one evening

24 hour thing is mildly annoying, but fortunately doesn't impact me. Can imagine it's more of a thing for people who only have a few mill in the bank and want to offload in bulk to buy a 20 mill car, that's soon to go out rotation for potentially months.

 

[RacingFan1]

Tbh anyone who abused the glitch, particularly if using the script, is probably loaded (gamewise) anyway now. What with money made from tge glitch and now all the other cars, not just the nsx...

I've got around 80 amgs to sell, after it went off piste one evening

24 hour thing is mildly annoying, but fortunately doesn't impact me. Can imagine it's more of a thing for people who only have a few mill in the bank and want to offload in bulk to buy a 20 mill car, that's soon to go out rotation for potentially months.

A friend had about 50 NSX and it had all of them replaced with FIAT 500.
I dont know if that is something known here, but yes, it is actually true.

 

[B80]

A friend had about 50 NSX and it had all of them replaced with FIAT 500.
I dont know if that is something known here, but yes, it is actually true.

Lol, that's weird. Assume a glitch, but guess we'll never know.

I have over 120, so if they were running something to check for abnormal amounts of that car, I'm sure I'd have come under the radar...

 

[skidmark69]

The selling system is just a psychological manipulation tactic to get people to be ok with cars being sold for at most roughly 50% of the price bought for and doesn't at all justify the time it took them to include it in the game.

In general 50% resale isn't even that bad for a video game, but given the economy of gt7 and the ridiculous 'real world' pricing and inflation for legendary cars it's a joke that we can't sell those cars for market value.

If the price fluctuations had any basis in the overall economy of the game then it would be somewhat interesting, but the price fluctuations are from what I can tell just preprogrammed in an attempt to make you feel like you're getting a good deal by selling it for 50% of the price you paid cause last week it was 40%. Most obvious evidence being the nsx gr b increasing in price despite lots of people selling.

Selling should have been there from the start, but was probably removed to push microtransactions, and the current system serves no real purpose. I don't hate it, but it doesn't justify the wait.

 

[benjoi84]

I mean, it's not bad that there's a way you can can earn a couple of million at the push of a button.

Let's imagine there's something you really need the credits for NOW. See which one of your premium cars is selling for a good deal at the Appraisal, race the **** out of it as much as you like until you're convinced you won't miss it, then sell without looking back.

 

[NAXEHT]

How is this a restriction, realistically how many copies of a car can a player own unless he was extremely lucky with the wheel, or he for some reason ended up buying several copies of a car in the used car shop.

Lets say 5! that is 5 days to sell every last one of those cars in a game that is 270 days old and the player would have played it for many hours and days to get 5 copies of the same car, considering this a restriction is weird.

Unless the player took a stupid amount of his time on earth to exploit a bug and get 100s of the same cars then it might feel like a restriction because he got played by PD, hahahaha :-)

/thread

 

[DuckworthDFV]

Would love to know where the price fluctuation is coming from though, if it's not player actions what is it, a pre-scripted price for each car? Car category? Brand? Seems unlikely to have no logic at all..

Also, has anyone not sold a car if the price is down from what it was before? I just sell them regardless simply for not understanding the above, but reckon that if we had a little more information on that would probably increase player engagement with the game since keeping up with the 'market' would be something you would want to do. idk

 

[Dave A]

Would love to know where the price fluctuation is coming from though, if it's not player actions what is it, a pre-scripted price for each car? Car category? Brand? Seems unlikely to have no logic at all..

Also, has anyone not sold a car if the price is down from what it was before? I just sell them regardless simply for not understanding the above, but reckon that if we had a little more information on that would probably increase player engagement with the game since keeping up with the 'market' would be something you would want to do. idk

It seems to be script controlled and not based on player involvement.

There's one car that's currently selling for approx 87% of it's UCD price, the R33 GT-R. Makes me wonder if there is potential to make a profit from UCD cars if they become available cheap enough. Probably not, but the R33 is the closest I've seen.