Sema 2012 and the Gran Turismo Award

[Joie de vivre!]

Sound is too real ... sure is Kaz, sure is.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

So apparently it's OK to be critical of Kazunori and PD for their work, but not OK to be critical of your total lack of respect towards everyone, your overly smug answers, and your general superior attitude that you often display towards others.

Smug Weasel indeed....

Okay, I'm literally laughing right now. Keep thinking that.

 

[Youngun]

Its may be REAL but not nice, should place 20 recording devices on the car then take it to the track, then process it to make it finer and less tinny

 

[Tornado]

So apparently it's OK to be critical of Kazunori and PD for their work, but not OK to be critical of your total lack of respect towards everyone, your overly smug answers, and your general superior attitude that you often display towards others.

Smug Weasel indeed....

It's absolutely hilarious that you posted something about the community acting smug and elitist exactly between this post:

As for MJM, you know what they say about opinions...........
I'd like to see YOU build a car for SEMA yourself. Put Up...........

And this post:

That's answer of those who can do
nothing their self......

I know what I can do, have done and continue to do. Been the Metalshop lead at Marathon Coach for 17 years, the Premier Coachbuilder in the entire world, and have 30+ years experience in the custom automotive and restoration field. What have you done?

I think that some people are so set in what other games and television portray that they refuse to believe a very good point made by Kaz in Jordan's great interview. As has been said by some people before, in terms of pure sound quality (lack of distortion, use of surround, etc...) GT5 does a great job. In terms however, making cars sound good, it falls flat. While in part (and in some situations more than others) this may come down to the sound department at PD, I think Kaz hit the nail on the head when he said they try to make the cars sound realistic rather than sexy.

In Forza (everybody's favourite example on these forums) no matter what you jump in, it sounds great and different to the car you were driving earlier. The problem with this, is that obviously not all cars sound good and some do sound like vacuum cleaners. When it comes to GT5's premium cars, many of them (787B, LFA) have a massively positive rap by the community while others get hated on hugely. While there is no explaining away the sound of the Honda HSV and similar situations, for the most part I think they did really try to make the cars sound real rather than good.

That's my 2c, now continue directing hate at somebody who only tries to do what he thinks is best to satisfy over 7 million paying customers that speak 20+ different languages from more than 30 countries in a single game. The fact that your even talking about something you payed $100 for 2 years ago is quite astounding to be honest. Tell me if you will, what other 2 year old $100 purchases your still talking about. Yep, I bet your thinking of another video game aren't ya. They are, in my opinion the best value entertainment available and the beauty of that, is it isn't too big a deal for many people to simply sell one console and move on to another. Just sayin'

I'm out.

You actually had a very good point that is very true (there are things from a sound point of view that GT5 absolutely destroys Forza at, particularly in terms of sound spatialization, even for the the examples where they made it patently obvious that actual sample accuracy was something they couldn't care less about like the HSV) which you proceeded to destroy the credibility of with the last paragraph.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Who is doing that? Where do you see people saying Kazunori can do no wrong? I don't see it but I do see myself and others saying treat him with some respect. Just because the man isn't sitting in front of us doesn't mean we should be throwing around personal insults at him just because his video game disappointed you or he didn't answer a question the way you wanted. I'm not saying bow at his feet because he can do no wrong. Just treat him with respect. It's a hard thing for some people to understand for whatever reason.

Who said I wanted the interview to be based on what I wanted. It's just the engine sounds and seasonal events parts that bother by Kaz's answers, not Jordan's questions.

Especially on engine sounds to be honest. Not sure why Kaz would think there too real. :/ It's weird really but not trying to be rude or anything.

 

[SWERV_GRIFFIN]

It's absolutely hilarious that you posted something about the community acting smug and elitist exactly between this post:

And this post:

Several of you here show no one any respect or approval, why would I expect or even wish for approval or respect from that same group. The thing is, I really could care less what you think of me.

I'm just saying that you should show some respect towards Kazunori and PD's work, plus the work that David Eckert has done.

You also should show respect towards Jordan for all HE has done and continues to do for all of us, if that's not too much to ask of you ........

You act like you do respect Jordan's efforts, but conduct yourselves in a manner that does not show that claimed respect.

 

[Tornado]

Several of you here show no one any respect or approval, why would I expect or even wish for approval or respect from that same group. The thing is, I really could care less what you think of me.

Perhaps for the best that you don't if you're going to paint the community with such a wide brush before turning around and acting the same way when people respond.

I'm just saying that you should show some respect towards Kazunori and PD's work, plus the work that David Eckert has done.

Which is fair enough, and something that I agree with. But people taking issue with Kaz doing another interview with political-style non-answers, some of which carry the air of "the problem is with you" sentiment no less, isn't automatically the same thing as flipping tables and calling for his head. And it's going to happen all the more when there is a language barrier, as pointed out here:

I'd challenge you to do that in Japanese.

Now, y'all know I've got a lot of time for Kazunori - a lot more than I do for GT5 - and, invoking lost in translation, I can see where he's coming from.

"Sound" is a complex field - it's not as simple as recording a noise and playing it back. A really basic example is how you sound differently on a tape recorder than you do in your head. While I'm sure that how they record sounds isn't necessarily how I'd do it (doing it on a dyno is sensible - loading the engine with no road noise), the simple fact is that you will not be able to tell the difference on an equaliser between the real car and the GT5 one. It'll be the same pitch (frequency) spectrum at, if you choose, the same volume. This is apparently what Kazunori means by "too real".

This isn't the problem. The problem is what he refers to as "sexier" sounds - or what musicians will know as timbre. Play two musical instruments at the same pitch and same volume. An equaliser will show no difference - but they're different, aren't they? You know how you can tell between a synthesiser version of an instrument and a real instrument - or a human voice and autotune? This is due to timbre - timbre is what gives "sexiness" to sound. You can even tell between two identical instruments played entirely in synch with each other due to timbre...

What constitutes timbre is tough to pin down - it's essentially every characteristic of a sound that isn't the frequency or volume It's often referred to as "sound colour" and you'll hear terms bandied about like ADSR (attack [the start of a note], decay [normalisation from the attack to the sustain], sustain [the intended note], release [return to zero]), but it's really tough to explain and even tougher to compress and shove onto a CD/DVD/BD and allow space for a game.

What many games do to substitute for timbre is make it louder and add more bass - because we associate noise, particularly bassy noise, with feeling. If you can feel the noise move through you it feels more "real" (and at real race tracks, sound hits you like a wall). Shoved through a set of TV speakers, it sounds "better" than the quieter and more accurate (in terms of the equaliser) note. GT games don't do this (with the exception of GTHD) and so, through TV speakers, they sound like ass because there is neither real feeling nor fake feeling - just the frequencies and volume. They sound better if you have speakers with better range and quicker reactions or if you have a good amp to dig the sounds out - on the pair of monitor speakers I usually use for gaming, GT5 sounds "fine", if a little vague sometimes. Good enough at least that my wife can hear I'm driving a V8 through three walls and a floor.

There's certainly more they could do. Sound recording needs to be primarily in the driver's seat for cockpit, in the engine for nosecam, two feet behind and four feet above the car for coptercam (though winding in some essence of the other two for each will help add character). It needs to be pushed through a spectrometer rather than an equaliser before being passed as satisfactor. It needs to be optimised for different settings - the ghacky 2W TV speakers most people play through, a stereo system, a basic surround system (2.1), a middle surround system (5.1), a geeky surround system (7.1) and a full cinema system (what's this up to now? 14.2?).

Or they could make it louder and add bass.


Now explain that in a second language in an interview...

And that's the thing people don't understand, but not understanding that by itself also isn't the thing you are asserting.

You also should show respect towards Jordan for all HE has done and continues to do for all of us, if that's not too much to ask of you ........

You act like you do respect Jordan's efforts, but conduct yourselves in a manner that does not show that claimed respect.

I don't see anyone here disrespecting Jordan. Like, at all. In fact, most of the posts that criticize Kaz turn right around and thank Jordan for the interview.

 

[mcfizzle]

Who said I wanted the interview to be based on what I wanted.

Not me.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Wow, this thread went to crap.

 

[maxpontiac]

Back on topic...

That car is sweet and I can't wait till I get to experience it in Gran Turismo.

 

[mjm23race]

That's answer of those who can do nothing their self......

I know what I can do, have done and continue to do. Been the Metalshop lead at Marathon Coach for 17 years, the Premier Coachbuilder in the entire world, and have 30+ years experience in the custom automotive and restoration field. What have you done?

Not saying that PD is perfect or that GT could not continue to improve, I just get tired of the overly negative attitudes and total lack of respect from so many in the community. I bet that Jordan is disapponted that He takes the time to get an interview for us all, and then the members of his Forum show their gratitude by more complaining, disrespect, and general negativity.

I am not getting into a who's better match with you. I don't need to honk my own horn, anyone that knows me knows that my work speaks for itself. If you need specific examples of projects I have been involved with please feel free to dm me. I don't like to advertise in a public forum or brag about what I have done, but if you are calling me out about my skills or expertise I can show you proof of what I do. I am glad I am not the only one that finds your responses here a bit inflamitory. Carry on

 

[SWERV_GRIFFIN]

I'm through trying to reason with you and a few others. I've made my point, someone needed to stand up for what is right, and not just follow. I am glad to see that a few people that responded in the thread are reasonable people that are not afraid to speak out for what is right and true. It gives us hope.............

Peace Out, Bro.............

 

[another_jakhole]

I'm through trying to reason with you and a few others. I've made my point, someone needed to stand up for what is right, and not just follow. I am glad to see that a few people that responded in the thread are reasonable people that are not afraid to speak out for what is right and true. It gives us hope.............

Peace Out, Bro.............

Add me to that list even though I wasn't apart of it this time.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

I hope KY was referring to the start-up engine sounds, because those are spot-on. But the gameplay sounds need to be sexier, for sure. A nice choice of words, KY.

 

[Hayden]

You actually had a very good point that is very true (there are things from a sound point of view that GT5 absolutely destroys Forza at, particularly in terms of sound spatialization, even for the the examples where they made it patently obvious that actual sample accuracy was something they couldn't care less about like the HSV) which you proceeded to destroy the credibility of with the last paragraph.

Yep... Late night posting always ends with me looking a bit of an idiot. Famine's post in the other thread was what I was trying to say and I should probably have cut it off after my point was done. Oh well, it happens, you live and you learn.

As I've said before, this Mustang/GT is definitely a welcome addition in my book which brings the count to 6 award winners that are yet to show up. According to wikipedia, we have...

1952 Abarth 1500 Biposto Coupe
1960 Plymouth XNR Ghia Roadster
1954 Ferrari 500 Mondial Pinin Farina Coupe
1969 Chevrolet Camaro (Mark Stielow)
1973 Chevrolet Camaro (Mary Pozzi)
2012 Ford Mach Forty (David Eckert)

An intriguing batch to say the very, very least! GT6 shall be interesting 👍

 

[Griffith500]

I hope KY was referring to the start-up engine sounds, because those are spot-on. But the gameplay sounds need to be sexier, for sure. A nice choice of words, KY.

I don't think he was, and I don't think he meant sexier in the same way you're thinking sexier. It's basically saying we don't really want realism in the sound department (even though the sounds have a long way to go to be realistic, that "too real" comment is a classic that's been repeated here before in discussion about car recordings, and comes from music recording I'm sure, which is hardly applicable), and artists are needed to make things hyper-real or essentially over-saturated, saccharine, pop-sensible tat. Like they do in other games.

 

[mjm23race]

As long as they get the motorcycle sounds right in gt6 I'll be happy.

 

[Coltenfutbol16]

I would be freakin' happy if the Mach forty was in the game.