September 10th 2008, CERN

[GT4 genius]

http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html

I'm sure many of you will know what this is about, but theres the site if some of you dont.
I just wanted to start a thread to see peoples general opinion on this.

Is it something that should be done, to better peoples knowledge and to lead to future advances for the benefit of everyone?

Or is it a dangerous experiment that could, however unlikely, cost us all our lives! To be less dramatic, is it just pointless and too expensive to justify?
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/6992/ just something to explain some of the dangers. Wouldnt give it much time though, just trying not to be too biased.

And if some moderator thinks this would be better off in another forum feel free to move it, I did a search and couldnt find anything similar, so forgive me if there is.

 

[88c-v Racer]

what's the point of having it? what good could it do if it works?

 

[YSSMAN]

I think its "cool" that we're on the verge of understanding so much with it, so I'm in full support of throwing the switch.

 

[Blake]

Why not? If we discover useful stuff with it it could improve our lives and those of future generations. If everyone dies then everyone dies, we won’t be here to complain that it went wrong.

 

[Famine]

what's the point of having it?

It allows us to understand the subatomic world - the various particles involved and how they interact to cause phenomena we see in the real world.

what good could it do if it works?

It allows us to understand the subatomic world - the various particles involved and how they interact to cause phenomena we see in the real world.

If it wasn't any use, do you really think a billion dollars a year would be spent on it?


As for the dangers... CERN has less chance of destroying the planet by creating a micro black hole than every single member of GTPlanet winning their countries' national lotteries for 6 successive weeks while aboard the International Space Station. Having walked there.

 

[Touring Mars]

I couldn't vote for "mankind has no right to attempt to play 'God'" for the simple reason that we're not playing God, we're being human - as the quote from Galileo in ledhed's signature suggests, it is our nature to discover...

In any case, if you believe that mankind was created by God anyway, then it begs the question, if God didn't want us to play God, then why did He make us capable of playing God?

I think CERN/the LHC is a hugely necessary experiment - we understand so much about atomic theory, but there remains some incredibly basic questions, like how do particles obtain mass? That's one of the key questions that the LHC will help us resolve...

 

[Sureboss]

Probably how humans do, by eating fast food.

I think it is a fantastic experiment (if you can call it that) and I am eagerly anticipating the results.

 

[Blake]

While I’m here:

 

[FoolKiller]

I say do it. In fact, I encourage it. The knowledge gained from this can change our world forever, or we may just be able to say, "So, that's how that works." Either way, it is important and can lead to further research and discovery.

As for the dangers... CERN has less chance of destroying the planet by creating a micro black hole than every single member of GTPlanet winning their countries' national lotteries for 6 successive weeks while aboard the International Space Station. Having walked there.

So, there is a chance?

Seriously though, with the odds of this happening so astronomically low I say it is worth it. And if it does happen and we all die because of it, it is way cooler than getting hit by a bus.

 

[Robin]

This poll should have been whether will be here next Wednesday rather than do you approve of it... Sure I think its good that we further are understanding but I do feel something really bad could happen.... all their safety analysis is based on theory which has never been proved (that any black holes generated will dissipate)...

I don't know how anyone cant feel a slight amount of worry because something this powerful and experimental should make you feel uneasy, especially when it could potentially endanger so many people.

Oh well, I guess we will find out soon..

Robin

 

[Touring Mars]

If it makes you feel any better, this experiment is not even capable of doing anything that isn't happening all over the universe a squillion times a second anyway...

 

[daan]

[panic]
We're all going to die!!!!11!!
[/panic]

 

[GT4 genius]

If it makes you feel any better, this experiment is not even capable of doing anything that isn't happening all over the universe a squillion times a second anyway...

True, but a lot of the stuff happening out there could kill us all in less then a second! Although I do doubt anything will happen on the 10th, even if it does all go horribly wrong then we wont notice anything until the actually do slam 2 particles together, which they wont be doing on the 10th anyway.

 

[Smallhorses]

It's funny how the "accident" he refers to in the video is that a guy was killed when a crane fell on him.....

.....which has never, ever, ever, ever happened on any other construction project in the world, and therefore this one should be shut down. Right?

[/Sarcasm]

 

[GT4 genius]

It's funny how the "accident" he refers to in the video is that a guy was killed when a crane fell on him.....

.....which has never, ever, ever, ever happened on any other construction project in the world, and therefore this one should be shut down. Right?

[/Sarcasm]

Yeah, and the interviewer doesnt help by saying 'wow theres been several accidents at the CERN facility and this doesnt encourage me, if they've looked over these issues what else have the looked over'. Yea, you can compare the calculations and precautions of keeping a crane upright to controlling never attempted before sub atomic particles. Even when they talk about the other incident in the tube, well it happened during testing. If nothing ever went wrong in testing well then the whole concept would be kind of pointless.

 

[Kent]

Wow, that's one heck of a job on the stats famine. I bet it took you some time working that out (since I hadn't seen anyone addressing the subject use those numbers).

In any case, I agree there is a need for the experiment but I do not feel the experiment itself should be pushed into execution as long as there are doubts about the safety on a large or small scale (whether it be the accidents they've already had or any possible future accidents).

I felt like the comparison to the challenger disaster was somewhat valid... Continue towards the goal but do so safely and with all due caution. 👍

 

[wfooshee]

How come that guy that predicted doom by comet didn't tell us about this black-hole-eating-the-planet thing??!?!?!?!

Or that "preacher" in Texas?

If none o' them sez so, then it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Joey D]

In any case, if you believe that mankind was created by God anyway, then it begs the question, if God didn't want us to play God, then why did He make us capable of playing God?

That, sir, is one of the most brilliant things I think I've ever heard. Isn't logic awesome?

===

I'm with others on this one, the chances of something bad happening are negligible so I think humankind would be foolish not to learn from experiments like this. We are constantly making discoveries and the only way to do that is to step into the unknown. Although I would probably prefer a black hole so I can use it as an excuse to skip our staff meeting next Wednesday. I mean really, what boss is going dispute that?

 

[Sureboss]

[panic]
We're all going to die!!!!11!!
[/panic]

What, is Famine playing air-hockey?

 

[daan]

What, is Famine playing air-hockey?

Yep, Famine and Mark T are on their way to Switzerland now. Mark will stand at one end of that big long tube, and Famine will be at the other with an air hockey puck. The puck will be fired at twenty-fourteen-eleventy billion miles per hour, straght at Mark T's forehead. The resulting collision could cause a black, blue and purple hole.

 

[Mark T]

Yep, Famine and Mark T are on their way to Switzerland now. Mark will stand at one end of that big long tube, and Famine will be at the other with an air hockey puck. The puck will be fired at twenty-fourteen-eleventy billion miles per hour, straght at Mark T's forehead. The resulting collision could cause a black, blue and purple hole.

Change of plan, I will now be fired from the other end of the tunnel crotch first as it has been deemed far too risky taking the shot in the head. I am confident that my gigantic manhood will rebound the puck resulting in an amazing reaction which will provide scientists with answers to many questions, such as "Will an aeroplane take off if placed on a conveyor belt?", "Which came first, the egg or the chicken dipper?"

Anyway, there is no way that this will not go ahead. They have spent billions on this already and to deny them the opportunity to actually use it would be extremely wasteful. I just hope that we actually make life changing discoveries with this device.

Just from looking at the construction pictures my mind boggles as to how anyone thought of the design for this mammoth structure.

This site has amazing pictures of the structure although it may take a while to load. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/08/the_large_hadron_collider.html

 

[Sureboss]

Or the puck could go straight over you and Famine will have some Essex manhood coming in his direction.

 

[Mark T]

Or the puck could go straight over you and Famine will have some Essex manhood coming in his direction.

And the consequences will be severe. I was going to mention something about a black hole but it will result in a double entendre fest if Daan visits this thread again.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

As for the dangers... CERN has less chance of destroying the planet by creating a micro black hole than every single member of GTPlanet winning their countries' national lotteries for 6 successive weeks while aboard the International Space Station. Having walked there.

True enough; my best friend is doing a science degree and is big on his physics and we were discussing it last night. To create a black hole, the core of a star has to collapse in an implosion and generate an incredible density. But the LHC is a particle accelerator and will basically throw particles around a twenty-seven kilometre loop and make them collide in an explosion, which is the polar opposite of the aforementioned implosion. Even if CERN could generate the amount of energy they needed to replicate the implosion of the core of a star, there still wouldn't be a black hole. Of curse the science is dumbed down a little because he's doing science and I'm not, but he's right. The very same fears were raised with the LHC's little sister, and that didn't destory the world.

But I think there's a much sounder theory as to why CERN is not in the business of triggering the apocalypse: it's hellishly irresponsible. Besides, if the world is swallowed up in a black hole, who would they report their findings to?

 

[Touring Mars]

But I think there's a much sounder theory as to why CERN is not in the business of triggering the apocalypse: it's hellishly irresponsible. Besides, if the world is swallowed up in a black hole, who would they report their findings to?

http://www.jir.com/ 💡

At the very least, it might provide a little entertainment to any alien race who happens to be monitoring our planet from afar. Vastly more intelligent beings currently residing on a planet 2,000 light years away, who have their most powerful optical telescopes pointed at our very planet, (and are currenly watching live pictures of the People's Front of Judea fighting with some Roman centurions) will, 2,000 years from now, come to get their daily update of what is happening on Earth, only to find the ruddy thing has gone.

 

[daan]

(and are currenly watching live pictures of the People's Front of Judea fighting with some Roman centurions)

spits. The Judean People's front will prevale.

will, 2,000 years from now, come to get their daily update of what is happening on Earth, only to find the ruddy thing has gone.

Zarg: "What do you mean it's not there?
Zoog: "It was there yesterday"
Zarg: "Where did you see it last?"
Zoog: "It was there, just to the left of Mars. Now there is just a big hole made of black."
Zarg: "Have you checked behind the sofa?"
Zoog: "Yes. It wasn't there."
Zarg: "Never mind, eh. I'm sure it'll turn up somewhere."
Zoog: "Yeah. The Judean people's front were winning too..."

 

[Famine]

True enough; my best friend is doing a science degree and is big on his physics and we were discussing it last night. To create a black hole, the core of a star has to collapse in an implosion and generate an incredible density. But the LHC is a particle accelerator and will basically throw particles around a twenty-seven kilometre loop and make them collide in an explosion, which is the polar opposite of the aforementioned implosion. Even if CERN could generate the amount of energy they needed to replicate the implosion of the core of a star, there still wouldn't be a black hole. Of curse the science is dumbed down a little because he's doing science and I'm not, but he's right. The very same fears were raised with the LHC's little sister, and that didn't destory the world.

It's dumbed down quite a lot - LHC can't create a black hole as you describe, but it can create a micro black hole. Possibly. And by possibly I mean "not bloody likely" - the smallest theorised black hole has an energy several orders of magnitude above that reachable with LHC.

In fact it can create quite a lot of odd things, just by smashing protons into each other at relativistic speeds. That's kind of the point behind it really - it's not just an investigation to find the Higgs Boson.

The question is whether a micro black hole, if produced, poses any threat to anyone. Again, most models say that it would either move too fast (relativistic speeds) or evaporate too quickly (Hawking radiation) to affect anything at all.

For LHC to destroy the world, we're looking at an awful lot of IF to happen. And in any case it won't happen until October - since the September 10th date refers only to the first attempt to circulate a proton beam around the whole LHC. No collisions will take place for another month yet.


Mind you, I did hear a theory on why we've not had any contact with intelligent alien life yet... Intelligence reaches a point where it makes a supercollider which destroys it

 

[daan]

I hope the Earth isn't destroyed until after the Dixie. I'm looking forward to that.

 

[stumpydino]

some kids just want a new thing to tag the 'end of the world' paranoia onto and its sure got carried away with this one...just takes one idiot to take speculation seriously and it snowballs. i know its typical to fear the unknown but the misguided assumptions can be more dangerous!

 

[Sureboss]

I hope the Earth isn't destroyed until after the Dixie. I'm looking forward to that.

You know what will happen, don't you?

Famine will lose the Dixie and BOOOOOM!