Sexual Harassment

Like going to work?

Obviously, you can't get away from all of it. But you can significantly reduce your chances by being aware of where you put yourself. Thankfully, with most workplaces is that they have a zero-tolerance policy so if someone is harassing you all it takes is a little bit of evidence and a call to HR.

At the least place I worked at, we had someone on my team creep on a girl that was also on our team. It took HR a few days to investigate it then he was terminated. I'm sure it works like that at many corporations, especially big ones.
 
For starters they can stop getting back together with abusers. I'll never understand why a female would ever go back to a male who assaulted them physically, mentally, or sexually. My wife worked with a girl who would come in with bruises, black eyes, laceration, etc. from her boyfriend beating her. She'd move in with her mom for a couple days then be right back with him where the same thing would happen again. For the life of me I couldn't understand it.

Also, and I know I'm going to probably get hated on for "blaming the victim" here, but women could stop putting themselves into situations that breed this sort of thing.

Walking alone, in a bad part of town, while wearing a short skirt is not really the smartest thing to do. It doesn't excuse rape obviously, but at the same time people need to be smart about the situations they put themselves in. In an ideal world bad things wouldn't happen, but since we live in reality, we need to identify those things and do something to prevent them.

Another situation would be going to a party and willingly drinking too much alcohol or doing drugs that alter your perception. Weird thing can happen when people are under the influence of those things. Once again, it doesn't excuse rape, but it also goes with not being aware of your surroundings. Date rape drugs are different though since the person didn't willingly ingest them.
 
I assume you misread what he said, but if not then what? Is he verbally harassing himself or something because he definitely wasn't calling anyone else an asshole? :lol:

Not necessary to be overly defensive when making a point.
Have your say and resist crapping on the soapbox - which was my point.
 
I have become, more legally aware over time on this particular topic... In the USA, individual states define what is as my state calls it "criminal sexual conduct." This conduct has: 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree. What actions constitute as sexual criminal conduct is listed under each heading 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

In most of the English speaking countries that have this "sex assualt, sex harrasment" discussion going on, criminal laws will list what exactly is a crime and what is not. Non english speaking countries dont seem to be focusing much on this issue. This mainly seems to be related to US TV celebs and well known politicians who are either American or English speaking. As we know, what is considered a crime is not always morally wrong using reason and logic, and what is not considered a crime is not always morally upstanding, using reason and logic.

Most of the actions the accused actors, TV people, politicians etc are accused of do not fall under into the realm of "criminal." Yet the majority of english speakers view it as "wrong." In fact, most around the world would probably find some of these behaviors evil.

Criminal code depends also, on the time period the (alleged) actions took place. Sex crime codes were radically different in 1970s and 80s (when some of the allegations are from) than they are now. In the case of Roy Moore, the laws were..... abit more leniant in the realm of "molestation" or "statutory rape" or "indecent liberties with a minor". Laws tend to follow culture.......... We live in whats called a "UTILITARIAN" society. Essentially what makes the majority happy is what our criminal codes follow to a degree although not always........... Although the age of consent was the same in 1975 as it is now in Alabama and many other US states, the laws were not written in a way to get an age of consent violater fully segregated from society as they are now. Culture has changed, as sex with a 15 year old is now viewed as very serious, in 1975 this might have been viewed culturally as "naughty."

Also, during the time period Spacey commited his attempted act with the 14 year old, not only was this illegal due to age, homosexuality was still a crime thoughout atleast half the USA, with each state writing its own laws on the matter. Some states had no age of consent for gay sexual activity as sexual activity between consenting adults was a sex crime of itself. Although this was not an issue for gays at the time without then existing harsh penalties or sentences for those convicted of violating sex crime law, in todays day and age it certainly would be an issue as penalties are harsher AND......... there was and is no age of consent for gay activity in many states......... For example, a 25 year old could be charged with statutory raping a 24 year old using the sodomy law in modern times and modern US legal codes. The US supreme court settled this one problem in 2003 by ordering that states cannot criminalize non commercial (not prostitution) but consentual sexual conduct in private between individuals both over the age of 18. However this is essentually a band aid solution as sexual conduct between minors of similar age can and still is, criminalized in around half the states. Prostitution and sexual conduct outside a bedroom (a living room) is still punishable along with a host of other issues. However, the band aid solution worked well for the LGBT community as they could move on to other issues albeit the issue of gay teens continues to be a lingering issue as their still criminalized and also more vulnrable to parental control and parental political beliefs.

Now to get back to the celebs and their "behaviors." Some of the ALLEGED actions are criminal and some not.... All are very very old. They cannot be fully investigated as in a lot of cases its 1 word against 1 word..... If one thing can be learned from this it is that you need multiple witnesses to cooberate the same thing in order for a party to be found guilty. This is how Lance Armstrong, the Tour de France champ, was brought down and found out to have used DRUGS and BLOOD to enhance his performance...

This brings us back to the accusers, most detail and individual instance with just the accused and the accuser and no others. To cooberate one must find a couple of witnesses to cooberate one specific incident so we can get passed the 1 to 1 ratio. Once we've gotten past that we can look at the statute of limitations and other legal concerns like how laws are radically different now compared to decades in the past and how society has changed to the point that what is socially abhorant today was somewhat acceptable yesterday.
 
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I remember the days when person was singular and people was the plural version of person. It's getting harder and harder to figure out this language stuff as I get older:rolleyes:
 
I remember the days when person was singular and people was the plural version of person. It's getting harder and harder to figure out this language stuff as I get older:rolleyes:
"The revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
 
I remember the days when person was singular and people was the plural version of person. It's getting harder and harder to figure out this language stuff as I get older:rolleyes:

That happens as everybody gets older, language change is an ongoing thing. Thee, thou and ye are only just fading away from some parts of the world. Every generation thinks that "their" iteration of language is the right one and 'twill ever be thus, I should think :)
 
I find it interesting that there is.......nary a whisper of discussion here about the amount of actors, directors, movie and music producers, journalists and politicians accused of sexual harassment recently, these stories lead almost every news cast recently and there is nothing here. I'm curious not about the stories themselves but, why the lack of interest from those that seem to share opinions on all subject, except this one.


There was a time in the past that I would have found such a phenomenon (lack of a thread) unusual - but not anymore - GTPlanet isn't the centre of the Universe; the Internet has burgeoned, expanding exponentially and literally feeding on itself, Hutt-style, and the more the activity is spread out the less the activity at any particular site, with the giants of virtual gratification (Twitter because of the trumpeting, FB/Instagram/Pinterest because of the back-patting, etc.) being more or less the banqueting halls for citizens of the virtual.

Prolific thread-makers (themselves quite often controversial figures) don't come dime-a-dozen, and what is left are usually younger folk, born long after bulletin boards first came up, and hungry for attention initiating desultory discussions about this or that that don't often lead anywhere with any purpose but result in roaming attack-dogs scavenging the discussion for bits of offal on which to chew and hopefully come up with brilliant-sounding one-liners regarding the taste.

Hurricane Harvey had almost hit landfall before a thread washed ashore here.
The big eclipse that showed up this year was almost upon us before it was covered here.

So no surprise that societal events that ripple through Hollywood and Washington and New York are merely regarded as the usual ho-hum scandals being reported that come and go in waves (because of the huge mass of uncurated information) and because much of the news today is yellow journalism (because of the huge mass of uncurated information).

I took your concern about the lack of comment as also an opening for comment - but to initiate discussion on a touchy topic as sexual molestation is itself a plunge into whitewater. So kudos to you for that bravery.
As well, actually providing opinions on the 'should be/should not be' morality of the reproductive acts of h. sapiens sapiens (unless one is Desmond Morris and writing up the quite enlightening, detached, and well-researched second chapter of The Naked Ape) one is prone to expose their personal short-comings or eyebrow-raising proclivities regarding their own brand of sexuality.

What surfaces in all these stories in the news is about two things - money and power.
(Or maybe one thing - money - since that can buy power.)
What is hidden are the cries for help - from both sides of the fence.

Humanity today is wrestling with its sexuality. So much so that the fight is now firmly in the limelight. And that is a good thing. The oppression of women (or for that matter any subordinate partner in a sexual relationship) is not easy to brush under the carpet now with cries of 'Lies!' (which in some some cases may be true because of political or financial skulduggery - which further cloud the issue) and the manipulation of professional subordinates, teammates, colleagues, etc. towards personal sexual gratification is now out in the open because of the ease with which information (accusations, denials, allegations, rebuttals) is disseminated, and that, in itself, being the spur for many to come forward (both genuine and false) with histories of being abused.
What we must keep in mind, though, is that the nature of human sexuality itself and what is appropriate and what isn't has never been clearly defined (apart in some 'Holy' books and assorted medical tomes) for everyone.
A first kiss without consent can be romantic for some, invasive to others.

So . . . to open a discussion about sexuality, and where the boundaries are, is to rush in where angels fear to tread - or to be the girl that kicked over the hornets' nest.
That answer your rhetorical question about the missing link to the discussion?


Now . . . on to the actual discussion itself - sexual oppression of one kind or another and accusations mostly from women about men - and all of them from the limelight in the limelight.
Sounds like the balance-of-power battle to me all over again - this time involving only a segment of the population - but there is a significant pattern to the crying, the reading from scripts, the apologies, and all the players concerned - maybe the limelight is optically focused.
But that may be a good thing - a place to start.

It seems like this doesn't happen to great degree in law-enforcement agencies, universities, schools, retail workplaces, corporate offices of all sizes, churches, (oh wait - we've covered that to some extent), civil engineering sites, hotels, hospitals . . . but surely it does?
I have to assume, that as a nurse, yourself, you may have come across such problems in your workplace?
This, then, has brought the conversation out into the open, that - while humans are very sexy - there are protocols that must be observed to prevent us reducing ourselves into dogs and bitches.

Let's talk 'consent' first.

What is that? How do we define it? Who gets to say what is permissible and what isn't? What does culture and religion have to do with it? As well as medical science? Different countries have their own 'norms' - from courtship to marriage to social life thereafter.

Bottom line is that the individuals concerned have the last word about consent.
Whether given in writing (to prevent legal backlash later) or as a matter of trust between consenting partners, it is consent between partners that is the first issue.
Wherever sexuality is demeaned and turns us into animals is whenever one of the participants is performing against their will - whether it is a child being molested, a young woman not wishing to be married and tormented in bed, a co-worker who just wishes to do their job, or a student only wanting to get through their grades without having to bend over backwards for it.
This is not as easy as it sounds, though.

People promote their sexuality - as easily evidenced by merely watching female TV anchors (as an example) crossing and uncrossing their bare thighs - and this can be a source of discomfort to those aroused by such display.
Where should the line be drawn? Do nuns wear a habit just for show? Are Muslim women all covered up for a reason?
But again, this very modesty can be arousal for some - hence the popularity of role-playing for some couples.

So arousal, unless physical contact is made, is a program of the mind - and should stay that way. Naked apes are not necessarily pretty - and neither are big lumps of black clothing - but all that is a matter of personal opinion, a matter of cultural programming, simple brain-washing.
But how much should contact be forbidden? Humans love to touch and be touch - we shake hands, we high-five, we hug, we put an arm around a shoulder - where are the boundaries here?

We come to 'consent', then. Sometimes a simple 'yes' or 'no' should be enough - sexual animals as we are, we still are animals with enough intellect to perceive simple signals and prevent us from descending into mindless debauchery. And if a phrase is uttered that is objective or a hand on a shoulder is found uncomfortable then a simple demand to cease it or apology should suffice.
To make someone lose their job, or ruin their reputations forever because of some phrase uttered jokingly or an arm around a waist during a photo-shoot requires no intellect - merely spite.
To punish a person, however, for wilfully forcing themselves on another's person - whether sexually or violently - without full consent and desire, or under threat of any sort, is justice.
Justice, however, needs a body of evidence - and using allegations as evidence is merely a crime of a whole different nature; we call that slander.

So consent must be proven (if there is actually evidence of such acts having taken place) - or evidence to the contrary needs be shown (if there is actually evidence of such acts having taken place.)
If these criteria are not met - then we're dealing with a bunch of hot air.

Back to 'consent', then:

Pick up some 'chick lit' (of the 'romantic' sort that is still being churned out today) and you are faced with an aggressive, domineering, darkly handsome, quite well-muscled male that eventually 'has his way' with the female protagonist who has been feverishly waiting to be grabbed and kissed while melting in his arms - quite often after he has gotten himself in trouble and she has suitably 'mothered' him.
The majority of these novels are written by women - and read by women.

Where exactly is the consent in there?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating - only in voracious reading of dozens of these novels does the pattern emerge - the conflict, the courtship, the surrender on the part of both parties to give in to their passion.
Unfortunately these fantasies never play out in real life for everyone (admittedly some couples do succeed in having fairy-tale relationships).

What happens is that people turn into dogs, both male and female, and end up snapping at each other.

Consent - and the giving and receiving of it - requires not only decency, but intellect. This is where we start to change. This is where we turn the nightmare into a fairy-tale.

Sleeping Beauty, I'm afraid, will have to continue sleeping helpless to consent to the princely kiss that eventually wakes her up.
 
That happens as everybody gets older, language change is an ongoing thing. Thee, thou and ye are only just fading away from some parts of the world. Every generation thinks that "their" iteration of language is the right one and 'twill ever be thus, I should think :)
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but do you think "twas" and "hither" falling out of style is the same as the meaning of "person" and "people" becoming confused with one another?

What happens if "person" loses its meaning, and we're all just "people"?
 
I keep seeing Trump and Winestine being mentioned. Did anyone forget Cosby having a number of women accuse him after his speech about the black community?

I honestly all of think this is a conspiracy with some shade sprinkled in...
Why didn't these women complain when it happened? It's not like rape just became a crime...
Why didn't they report it and move along?
Is it rape/assault if the woman allows it even though she regrets it yet knows it would benefit her?
 
Why didn't these women complain when it happened?

They believed it would end their careers. Hollywood (and to a greater extent, modeling) has allowed this kind of behavior pervasively partly because of how blurred the lines are. Any industry in which you trade on your looks to an extent that it is openly discussed automatically has a fuzzy line that's much easier to walk across. If you're hiring an engineer to work on your latest virtual reality goggles, it's not at any point appropriate to say "do you look good in a bikini?". That kind of notion can be invoked easily in Hollywood, for good reason. It fosters an environment in which people can get away with more.

Celebrity also automatically helps people look the other way. Michael Jackson is an excellent example. So is (insert NFL player here).
 
Is it rape/assault if the woman allows it even though she regrets it yet knows it would benefit her?
Now if by allow you mean consent all the way until the end and not just letting them do it (which is where it gets a bit fuzzy) then I wouldn't call it rape or assault. Both parties agree'd and put on the act without any signs of discomfort. Any discomfort (and by this I don't mean HIV but the idea of rape) in the aftermath doesn't matter. If I wanted and had sex but then regretted it afterwards, I shouldn't be able accuse the other of rape because I gave consent throughout.

However, it's people who believe that this (as well as other qualities) qualifies as rape that makes people often believe the statistic that 1 in 5 Women get sexually harrased in the US which simply isn't true (even the researchers said their research was faulty). If this was truly the case, it would be just as awful for women as it is in the middle east: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...een-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

Now I'm not saying it isn't a serious issue, it'll always be a serious issue no matter the statistic as no one should be going around sexually harassing others under any circumstances. In fact the point I'm trying to make is that we need to take this issue more serious and look more into with actual research and evidence so we can tackle the actual crimes of sexual assault instead of just expecting the worse every single time. Calling an incident someone regretting consensual sex rape and treating it as such is just undermining the real victims.
 
Can you explain that a bit more?
I struggled to understand your post when you made it and I'm not doing any better with it now, particularly the part I quoted.
I really don't know what else to say...

Cosby did a speech towards the black community and women come out the wood works accusing him of sexual assault.
Everyone is up for reelection and women come out of the wood works.
Where were they the first election?

I find it odd.
 
I really don't know what else to say...

Cosby did a speech towards the black community and women come out the wood works accusing him of sexual assault.
Everyone is up for reelection and women come out of the wood works.
Where were they the first election?

I find it odd.
I'm none the wiser, I'm afraid. I wondered if you thought it was a race issue (though I couldn't guess why it would be) when you said "shades" just after you mentioned a black community.
Which elections are you referring to?
 
I'm none the wiser, I'm afraid. I wondered if you thought it was a race issue (though I couldn't guess why it would be) when you said "shades" just after you mentioned a black community.
Which elections are you referring to?
No no no!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shade&utm_source=search-action

We have government officials running in special elections right now from the results of the Presidential election. I find it dumb cause we vote again next year for the same seats...
Anyways, for example, Roy Moore is running for reelection in Alabama.
https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_special_election_in_Alabama,_2017

I'll just leave this Google search about him here.
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...64.psy-ab..1.3.470.0..46j0i46k1.0.gfyHluHhNQA

Just to note other government officials are resigning after allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-resigns-senate-sexual-misconduct-allegations
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...057ea0-d9bb-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...057ea0-d9bb-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/trent-franks-resigns/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/trent-franks-resigns/index.html

Interesting this happens right before elections next year.
 
If there is one thing that needs to be done, it's bringing back this guy:

latest
 
They believed it would end their careers. Hollywood (and to a greater extent, modeling) has allowed this kind of behavior pervasively partly because of how blurred the lines are. Any industry in which you trade on your looks to an extent that it is openly discussed automatically has a fuzzy line that's much easier to walk across. If you're hiring an engineer to work on your latest virtual reality goggles, it's not at any point appropriate to say "do you look good in a bikini?". That kind of notion can be invoked easily in Hollywood, for good reason. It fosters an environment in which people can get away with more.

Celebrity also automatically helps people look the other way. Michael Jackson is an excellent example. So is (insert NFL player here).
To be completely clear, I don't support what has allegedly happened to these women in Hollywood, and in of the general opinion that Hollywood is a rather discussing place, and this episode of rape allogations is just scratching the surface.

However! One aspect that I still don't understand is the sort of stereotypical idea that many of these women put forward that, "well if I didn't have sex with him / do what he wanted, I wouldn't get the job/gig/part, and would be out of work." On one hand, I get it, they're actors payed and trained to act, if they don't have work, they don't eat. On the other hand though, we're talking about Hollywood here - not social services, not the DMV, no one is coercing them to have sex in the grocery store checkout line. What I'm saying is I have a real hard time buying into any arguement centered around the notion that, "I had to do it because of my career, or whatever the constraining reason is." Bollocks. Time to start a new carrier. Any time anyone offers you a job in exchange for sexual favours, that's a job you don't need (unless you're comfortable with being payed for sexual favours). And again, we're talking acting in Hollywood here. Anyone who is capable of acting in a Hollywood movie is capable of holding any number of jobs in various fields, from wallmart greeter to dental assistant to doctor or lawyer. In my opinion, too many of these young women dedicate themselves to being the "next big thing", put all their eggs in one basket, have no backup plan (and assholes like Weinstien know this!), so when they end up in these situations, they feel like they have no other option.

There's an important concept I learned from Dr Boyce Watkins, and that's the idea that if you're going to be in the work force in any capacity, especially employed by someone else, it is vitally important to a person's sanity and well being to have a stash of what he referred to as "🤬-it money". That is, a stash of money that you can survive on if your employer asks you to do something you're uncomfortable with, sexual or otherwise. If you live life paycheck to paycheck, and have no savings to tide you over, then your boss basically becomes your daddy. You do what they say, when they say it, and yes, it's possible to feel like you have no choice...sexual favour or go hungry. And while that's a terrible proposition for a person to have to face, some of the responsibility must fall on them for failing to provide themselves with a backup plan. A cliché example, but maybe if you're going for a casting interview today, maybe yesterday you should have interviewed at the local diner in case the acting thing doesn't work out.

There's also the allure of Hollywood aspect, which I think encourage young women to do things that, again if we were talking about lawyers, or engineers, or doctors, a young woman in a non-Hollywood situation would simply tell the guy to go 🤬 himself.

Please don't take this as a form of victim blaming. I think my point is that overall, if people had higher self esteem and better forsite, a lot of this could be avoided. This is an issue more rooted in how we raise our youth, especially our young girls.


Now if by allow you mean consent all the way until the end and not just letting them do it (which is where it gets a bit fuzzy) then I wouldn't call it rape or assault. Both parties agree'd and put on the act without any signs of discomfort. Any discomfort (and by this I don't mean HIV but the idea of rape) in the aftermath doesn't matter. If I wanted and had sex but then regretted it afterwards, I shouldn't be able accuse the other of rape because I gave consent throughout.

However, it's people who believe that this (as well as other qualities) qualifies as rape that makes people often believe the statistic that 1 in 5 Women get sexually harrased in the US which simply isn't true (even the researchers said their research was faulty). If this was truly the case, it would be just as awful for women as it is in the middle east: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...een-raped-on-college-campuses/article/2551980

Now I'm not saying it isn't a serious issue, it'll always be a serious issue no matter the statistic as no one should be going around sexually harassing others under any circumstances. In fact the point I'm trying to make is that we need to take this issue more serious and look more into with actual research and evidence so we can tackle the actual crimes of sexual assault instead of just expecting the worse every single time. Calling an incident someone regretting consensual sex rape and treating it as such is just undermining the real victims.
I find the idea of regret in the context of this conversation somewhat interesting, because of what is referred to some as "post coitus tristesse", basically the idea that a lot of people, men and women, feel sad after sex and/or orgasm.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.vic...kx/why-do-some-of-us-feel-sad-after-an-orgasm
 
However! One aspect that I still don't understand is the sort of stereotypical idea that many of these women put forward that, "well if I didn't have sex with him / do what he wanted, I wouldn't get the job/gig/part, and would be out of work." On one hand, I get it, they're actors payed and trained to act, if they don't have work, they don't eat. On the other hand though, we're talking about Hollywood here - not social services, not the DMV, no one is coercing them to have sex in the grocery store checkout line.

You're painting using a broad brush across a whole spectrum of people. There are people who would take this trade (sex for money basically) in a heartbeat, and never complain. There are people who would take the trade, and then complain later to get more. There are people who would take the trade and then wish they hadn't. There are people who would not take the trade but would cover up the offer in order to keep hopes in the business alive. There are people who would not take the trade, and would leave the industry, but wouldn't want the whistleblowing attention. And there are people would would not take the trade, and go to the press/press charges.

In quite a few cases, you're talking about people who refused the offer, or were touched against their will, but didn't come forward with that information in order to keep their careers alive. Some of these people are believing now that they can come forward and not suffer repercussions.
 
In quite a few cases, you're talking about people who refused the offer, or were touched against their will, but didn't come forward with that information in order to keep their careers alive. Some of these people are believing now that they can come forward and not suffer repercussions.
Just to be clear, because there's an inherent ambiguity with the phrase as it was written, are you condoning the choice these women made to not speak up at the time of the incident and to do so now, emboldened by the current zero-tolerance climate? Or are you suggesting there are--or should be--consequences for the delay?

Also, just to be clear on my end (and I don't intend to establish this again in the future, as I hope my intent is clear based on my own wording), this question is entirely non-argumentative. Of course my response to the answer just may be, depending on what that answer is. :lol:
 
Just to be clear, because there's an inherent ambiguity with the phrase as it was written, are you condoning the choice these women made to not speak up at the time of the incident and to do so now, emboldened by the current zero-tolerance climate? Or are you suggesting there are--or should be--consequences for the delay?

I don't believe that it violates anyone else's rights to refuse to report a crime against yourself or even poor conduct. There may be circumstances where a company has reporting requirements, especially for managers, so that could change the answer. If they were contractually obliged to speak up, then I'm not "condoning" it. If not, it's their personal choice.
 
Ok, this one seems interesting: http://people.com/movies/harvey-weinstein-salma-hayek-statement/

Can pressuring a female star to do a revealing sex scene in a movie constitute sexual harassment? That's a toughie. It's relevant to the product and to sales of the product. And yet... there is an element of "you're a woman, so I can pressure you to do this and get away with it" to it.

Are the scenes in b-movies where now-famous actresses remove their clothes... once... to make it big... and then never again, visual records of women succumbing to sexual harassment?

I'd argue no, that it's not sexual harassment because it's relevant to the product being sold. But I'm more than willing to admit that this is easily distasteful. This is the problem with Hollywood though, and part of the reason that sexual harassment has been harbored there. It's such a grey area. When are you making fine cinema and when are you making a porn movie? There's a straight spectrum from Barney to Debbie Does Dallas with no clear-cut breaks in between except where they have been arbitrarily (badly) placed by the MPAA.
 
Are the scenes in b-movies where now-famous actresses remove their clothes... once... to make it big... and then never again, visual records of women succumbing to sexual harassment?

I think in some cases it definitely constitutes sexual harassment... but it doesn't constitute a prosecutable act thereof. To some extent practices have changed (although not entirely) and I think that much of the B-movie culture will, like 70s comedies where overt racism/sexism was the norm, be remembered as "how it was" with a general expectation that we've moved on.

When are you making fine cinema and when are you making a porn movie?

The distinction between pornography and erotica (not what you're asking, I know) is an attempt at true artistry. That's a subjective call for obvious reasons. Otherwise hard-core pornography tends to show penetrative acts and close ups of genitalia in aroused states. Softcore pornography is anything depicting sexual acts that's lesser than that, that's mostly legal on TV nowadays (watershed dependent).

What isn't addressed in clearing up definitions is the aspect of exploitation in the film industry - clearly it has happened and still happens and I guess the only fix is for people to feel that they can be honest about the things that happen to them during the casting/filming process.
 
Ok, this one seems interesting: http://people.com/movies/harvey-weinstein-salma-hayek-statement/

Can pressuring a female star to do a revealing sex scene in a movie constitute sexual harassment? That's a toughie. It's relevant to the product and to sales of the product. And yet... there is an element of "you're a woman, so I can pressure you to do this and get away with it" to it.

Are the scenes in b-movies where now-famous actresses remove their clothes... once... to make it big... and then never again, visual records of women succumbing to sexual harassment?

I'd argue no, that it's not sexual harassment because it's relevant to the product being sold. But I'm more than willing to admit that this is easily distasteful. This is the problem with Hollywood though, and part of the reason that sexual harassment has been harbored there. It's such a grey area. When are you making fine cinema and when are you making a porn movie? There's a straight spectrum from Barney to Debbie Does Dallas with no clear-cut breaks in between except where they have been arbitrarily (badly) placed by the MPAA.
She signed up to play a character that was bi-sexual. It's a bit late IMO to be calling it harassment to be asked to do something that the character would have done. If she objected to nude scenes she could have negotiated it into her contract, she wouldn't be the first actor to do so.

The distinction between pornography and erotica (not what you're asking, I know) is an attempt at true artistry. That's a subjective call for obvious reasons. Otherwise hard-core pornography tends to show penetrative acts and close ups of genitalia in aroused states. Softcore pornography is anything depicting sexual acts that's lesser than that, that's mostly legal on TV nowadays (watershed dependent).

What isn't addressed in clearing up definitions is the aspect of exploitation in the film industry - clearly it has happened and still happens and I guess the only fix is for people to feel that they can be honest about the things that happen to them during the casting/filming process.
What is "true artistry"? I assume there's also a false artistry. Which is which and how do we differentiate?
 
She signed up to play a character that was bi-sexual. It's a bit late IMO to be calling it harassment to be asked to do something that the character would have done.

A straight male might undress and stand in front of a mirror examining his johnson but if he's asked to do it for a totally unnecessary scene that appears to be included only for the gratification of other people in the room then many might say that's wrong. The feeling amongst some was that the Hayek scene was included for gratification, not as a narrative contribution.

If she objected to nude scenes she could have negotiated it into her contract, she wouldn't be the first actor to do so.

I think the point is that this was her first big feature and, like we're hearing from many in a similar position, saying no was presented as a career-killing option.

What is "true artistry"? I assume there's also a false artistry. Which is which and how do we differentiate?

It's a hugely subjective question and there'll likely never be a definitive answer. You know it when you see it... but so does everybody, and not everybody agrees that they've seen it :)
 
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