Patrik
(Banned)
- 2,231
- GTP_Patrik
I just want it perfekt......Now look at that, PuTTe_TuTTe! (thanks to Wolfe! đź‘Ť)
That's what you get on other games. Still unhappy with your "not quite in shape"-windscreen?
Shapes of the cars..
- Thread starter Patrik
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the Interceptor
Premium
- 4,173
- BEL / GER
- theInterceptor77
I'm not quite with you on that, Wolfe. Yes, it is reasonable to desire perfection, but I actually think that the guys at Polyphony do want to make a perfect game. I don't think that, if we would say that GT4 is perfect, they wouldn't try to make GT5 any better. Telling them what is wrong with their product (in a proper way) is alright, but if you do, you should stay realistic on what to demand, and what not to demand.
The looks of the cars are absolutely alright, apart from some texture resolution problems and minor details. So, that's not really a point on my list of what Polyphony should work on for future Gran Turismos.
Here, I'm absolutely with you again. This is a product, made on a platform with strict limitations, made by a limited number of people with limited time and money. I expect to be able to buy it for say 60 Euros. How on earth can it be perfect?
And like I said before, it is like a wonder that the Volvo 240 has made it into the game at all. There is a huge range of sportier, newer and - sorry - more interesting Volvos out there, at least for a game like Gran Turismo. And you come here and complain that it doesn't look perfect, when it is the closest a computer game will probably ever get? (apart from future GTs that is)
Come on, give us a break!
Regards
the Interceptor
When I said "everyone," I meant that as an absolute -- as in, even the members of Polyphony Digital's staff were completely 100% satisfied.
Does that make more sense, now?
There's also a difference between desiring a perfect game, and demanding a perfect game.
the Interceptor
Premium
- 4,173
- BEL / GER
- theInterceptor77
yup!When I said "everyone," I meant that as an absolute -- as in, even the members of Polyphony Digital's staff were completely 100% satisfied.
Does that make more sense, now?
You're right, we actually can't demand anything from Polyphony. We can tell them what we think is wrong with GT4, hope they'll listen, or even better, already know, and make a better GT5. đź‘ŤThere's also a difference between desiring a perfect game, and demanding a perfect game.
Regards
the Interceptor
Could it just be that whatever model 240 PD used is different from what everyone else knows?
Maybe they found a 240 in Japan and used that? It could just be slightly different there than in Great Britain, which could be different than the one in Germany, that doesn't look quite like the one here in the USA, and all look different than the one the Scandinavian countries get.....
A lot of car companies make the same car for world-wide distribution and make subtle changes for different markets; be it trims, moldings, rims, tires, paint colors, engines, transmissions, and some designing cues.....
I mean, you can only get certain model Mercedes-Benz which manual transmissions in the US, but go to Germany (and most of Europe), and you can get them in many models (I won't even go into the subject of diesel...).
What I'm getting at is maybe the model that PD used looked like the GT4 version and what you have just may be slightly different.
on an ending note, I though it had been noted when the game first came out that the rims were not right....they are from a different Volvo....
Maybe they found a 240 in Japan and used that? It could just be slightly different there than in Great Britain, which could be different than the one in Germany, that doesn't look quite like the one here in the USA, and all look different than the one the Scandinavian countries get.....
A lot of car companies make the same car for world-wide distribution and make subtle changes for different markets; be it trims, moldings, rims, tires, paint colors, engines, transmissions, and some designing cues.....
I mean, you can only get certain model Mercedes-Benz which manual transmissions in the US, but go to Germany (and most of Europe), and you can get them in many models (I won't even go into the subject of diesel...).
What I'm getting at is maybe the model that PD used looked like the GT4 version and what you have just may be slightly different.
on an ending note, I though it had been noted when the game first came out that the rims were not right....they are from a different Volvo....
- 156
what jimi ist trying to say is it could be because the car is manufactured somewere else it could be slightly different not because the did it on purpose, but it could and if the model is based on that it could enlarge it in game like 1+1=2.
And they may have used the wrong rims because they're not the experts and maybe they liked that rim best.
I'm just saying.
And they may have used the wrong rims because they're not the experts and maybe they liked that rim best.
I'm just saying.
- 7,588
- Whateversville
- Flerbizky
lol.. there is difference! doesn't seems like you guys can realise it though..
don't you see any different on the windsheilds between GT4 and reality on the Volvo 240 Estate?
GT4:
IRL:
cause I do u know..
EDIT: i didn't start this thread for no reason.. if i say I can see a lot of differense between the cars in game and reality I dont lie.
Different angles aside - I'd say that's pretty much spot on đź‘Ť
lol, Volvo probably didn't change the body shape for japan... but enough of this topic now!
geez...I did not say they changed the body, I said there could be subtle differences between models in certain markets......
Maybe the sheet metal cut for one country was cut differently.
Maybe certain countries have some standards that WE don't know about causing a car maker to slightly change desing in certain markets...
Maybe, just maybe, they did it because they wanted to.....it's just a game...
- 7,153
- killermrk
- KillerMRK2
Yeah, like I don't know anything here, all you have to do is go to cars in general or the auto news forum, then say I don't know anything about cars.
- 20
- Almere /Holland
i think this guy is right.
there are enough of cars in Gt4 that look like the real ones but just get the proportions wrong .
good example is the Alfa 156 and the citroen C3
another nice one is the Front of the Spyker laviolette (the rear is spot on the front looks to ...horseface 
)
most of the japanese cars don't have that problem though. (most european cars look like S#*t)
the reason they look like this is because ...different people within PD are modeling these cars .... i can almost see diferent styles in carmodeling and can almost see wich ones are made by the same modeler(person or team who make the 3d models)
the other reason is the way these cars are modeled.
PD has modeled there cars after pictures and blueprints ( not always acurate) ...also using Toy cars ( or not really toys but Scale models from Tamia) as a refrence. yeah they test drive the cars ans scale them up there to BUT .......
you now have keep in mind that every car model has a maximum of poligrons to use.
Sometimes a shape is to hard to make or would exclude another in the same model because of the Max of poli's available per model, and they try to fix that with textures .... pretty mutch fooling you into seeing a shape
(hope this is still making sense ).... you know it's there on the real car ... you can see it on the car in GT ... but its a texture shadow (a picture of a shape and shadow) not a 3d model shadow .... so alot of cars are wrong in GT 
(checkout some rooflines and lower parts of cars ....and especially the lower part of doors and bumpers)......
i still have deep respect for the modelers and the guy's and girl's over at PD for making 700 + cars and stuff
there are enough of cars in Gt4 that look like the real ones but just get the proportions wrong .
good example is the Alfa 156 and the citroen C3
another nice one is the Front of the Spyker laviolette (the rear is spot on the front looks to ...horseface ) most of the japanese cars don't have that problem though. (most european cars look like S#*t)
the reason they look like this is because ...different people within PD are modeling these cars .... i can almost see diferent styles in carmodeling and can almost see wich ones are made by the same modeler(person or team who make the 3d models)
the other reason is the way these cars are modeled.
PD has modeled there cars after pictures and blueprints ( not always acurate) ...also using Toy cars ( or not really toys but Scale models from Tamia) as a refrence. yeah they test drive the cars ans scale them up there to BUT .......
you now have keep in mind that every car model has a maximum of poligrons to use.
Sometimes a shape is to hard to make or would exclude another in the same model because of the Max of poli's available per model, and they try to fix that with textures .... pretty mutch fooling you into seeing a shape
(hope this is still making sense ).... you know it's there on the real car ... you can see it on the car in GT ... but its a texture shadow (a picture of a shape and shadow) not a 3d model shadow .... so alot of cars are wrong in GT (checkout some rooflines and lower parts of cars ....and especially the lower part of doors and bumpers)......i still have deep respect for the modelers and the guy's and girl's over at PD for making 700 + cars and stuff
- 7,719
The only differences I can see on the Volvo, apart from very slight changes, such as black-colored plastic compared to red one), is the focal lenght of the camera. A 50mm lenght would give you real-life proportions - a longer lenght would "flatten" the picture (Like in the GT4 shot), and a shorter one would make it more pronounced ("Fisheyes" or 360-degree lenses normally have a focal lengh of 8mm)
- 411
All right. That's a good observation exercise.
The GLT is one of my favorites. Angry-Grandpa ripping-off Nurburgring.
But it seems such a minor problem nowadays. I prefer a 98.5% close-to-real model available for free (I mean bundled with the game) than having to pay 1 dollar for a "proprietary-induvidualized" downloadable 100% accurate.
The GLT is one of my favorites. Angry-Grandpa ripping-off Nurburgring.
But it seems such a minor problem nowadays. I prefer a 98.5% close-to-real model available for free (I mean bundled with the game) than having to pay 1 dollar for a "proprietary-induvidualized" downloadable 100% accurate.
Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
Maybe PD just got a dodgy Volvo! 
Seriously, Firstly it takes PD ages to model one car and im sure slight differences like that will not make all that much difference. GT4 models are very impressive but working on limited hardware you cant just use as many polys as you want, if they need to do other modelling on the Volvo they saved some polys on curving the windscreen as much.....
Secondly, sometimes PD dont actually have the real car to model..... remember all those model cars they have on their desks? They usually (especially with foreign models) may only have a model and photos to go on, maybe they could not get a Volvo 240 in Japan to model, they are sure not going to ship one, nor fly the PD team to Sweden so this leads to slight inaccuracys...
Thirdly, wait to see what it looks like in HD or next gen rendering because it may look right on newer visual technology, a standard TV can distort stuff slightly......Maybe it will look great in GT5!
To answer the question in the first post of the thread, How do PD render the cars..... well they use a technique like most other racing game developers, the simplest way. They start with a 3D retangle on a CAD program and model the top, sides, front, back and base inwards from the block and then you are left with a car! The wheels are separately added as they have to spin... With the interior they work from the inside out... each car takes ages. I used to think ages ago that they would laser scan the cars from every angle and that would do the model instantly, but sadly they dont..... They may scan models to get an idea of tricky body curves and angles (bet the BMW's were quite hard!) but all of the renders are done using maths and measuring...
Robin
Seriously, Firstly it takes PD ages to model one car and im sure slight differences like that will not make all that much difference. GT4 models are very impressive but working on limited hardware you cant just use as many polys as you want, if they need to do other modelling on the Volvo they saved some polys on curving the windscreen as much.....
Secondly, sometimes PD dont actually have the real car to model..... remember all those model cars they have on their desks? They usually (especially with foreign models) may only have a model and photos to go on, maybe they could not get a Volvo 240 in Japan to model, they are sure not going to ship one, nor fly the PD team to Sweden so this leads to slight inaccuracys...
Thirdly, wait to see what it looks like in HD or next gen rendering because it may look right on newer visual technology, a standard TV can distort stuff slightly......Maybe it will look great in GT5!
To answer the question in the first post of the thread, How do PD render the cars..... well they use a technique like most other racing game developers, the simplest way. They start with a 3D retangle on a CAD program and model the top, sides, front, back and base inwards from the block and then you are left with a car! The wheels are separately added as they have to spin... With the interior they work from the inside out... each car takes ages. I used to think ages ago that they would laser scan the cars from every angle and that would do the model instantly, but sadly they dont..... They may scan models to get an idea of tricky body curves and angles (bet the BMW's were quite hard!) but all of the renders are done using maths and measuring...
Robin
- 1,574
Lol maybe they modelled a cut and shut.
- 1,579
Acutally, PD did fly people all around the world to "capture" cars. It was probably when they spent months at a time evaluating each track...on location. Evo's Caterham Fireblade was captured on-site in England. There's a whole Evo article on it. And Volvo's aren't exactly unheard of in Japan, especially not a 20-year-old model that was extremely popular worldwide.
Car modelling is a very difficult job. I would imagine that it would be excruciatingly hard to model each individual structure found on the car. Given the short time they had, it is amazing that they were able to model almost 800 cars without any major inaccuracies. Sure, unless we invent some sort of laser-scanning device, small flaws would be inevitable, especially on a video game.
- 7,719
Those devices are already invented, and I guess that by GT10, PD would have those
Modelling cars for movies or concepts is tough, but not like modelling for a game - a movie or concept can have limitless polygons, since they're pre-rendered. In a game, however, you have a limit to the number of them, since it's all rendered in real-time, which is why PD could make some cars driveable in races (Chrysler/Plymouth Prowler, Nike Car, Caterham, etc.) - they are too complex, with too many polygons, self-shadowing and self-reflecting surfaces, and animations.
Modelling cars for movies or concepts is tough, but not like modelling for a game - a movie or concept can have limitless polygons, since they're pre-rendered. In a game, however, you have a limit to the number of them, since it's all rendered in real-time, which is why PD could make some cars driveable in races (Chrysler/Plymouth Prowler, Nike Car, Caterham, etc.) - they are too complex, with too many polygons, self-shadowing and self-reflecting surfaces, and animations.
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