Shift 2, final verdict...

[Patrocles]

I have not had enough time with the game. The jury is still out with my verdict but we are leaning towards a conviction of "yes! good!".

So far I am enjoying the game much much much more than GT5.

The S2U physics could be better to give me more feedback on the what the car is doing (imho,ymmv) - but this could be due to using an intro car (Ford focus) that has not been tuned plus a logitech DFP wheel plus a PS3 and not on the PC.

 

[TheTechnobear]

I think luminis/ilex you have summed it up, s2u has given some 'edge' to virtual racing... And you need it, because IRL that is a big part of it.

I think another thing is about the feel, I played a lot of fm , and hated the gt5 feel, then got used to it, same with shift... And I think I can say the same for f1 2010 , grid , race pro and any number of other games - they have a different take on feel, some better than others , some just different.


Using racing tyres, this is a difficult one, in fairness IRL you can use on any car (with power/grip) and it will be transformed...
So why don't you...
Well usually race regs don't, because it's very expensive ... In Caterhams we used semi race tyres, that the top teams would use for a qualy + race , cost approx $500 , so for a race weekend that's $1000 for amateur racing.
Rightly, series organizers therefore try to limit this otherwise you cannot get grid numbers
(it's not f1 with loads of sponsorship)

(another common reason, is when race tyres go, they snap faster than sport tyres)

Anyway, my point is, its financial... and to be honest in a virtual world, we wouldn't want to sim that ... It's tedious in reality

One thing though, sport tyres don't have float, they just don't have as much grip

 

[tribolik]

I still hope that my final verdict will be even more positive than what it allready is... after a future patch... who knows

 

[iLex]

Today I raced the A-class 'Ring race and suddenly it hit me that part of the 'edge' that S2U has over GT5 is due to a flaw in the feedback system. Because you don't feel what the car is doing as well as you do in GT5 it is sometimes harder to correct the car. It's nothing big, but it should be part of my verdict

 

[mr_serious]

I didn't want this game, but my GF surprised my with it as a b/d present.

I hate the EA's ubiquitous menu and career progression framework that get's tacked onto every fecking racing game they produce, but I had to persevere for my GF's sake.

On the first attempt it was awful, using the DS3 and the default helmet cam so I gave up. Yesterday I thought I would give it another go with the DFP and found the normal cockpit cam. I messed about with the settings a bit too.

Having taken a little time to tweak the settings and find the right view it turns out the driving is not only a lot of fun, but also challenging.

For me it is not just the graphics / physics combination that makes a racing game realistic. It is primarily the racing!

S2U provides for some really good offline racing, challenging and exciting.

Some elements of the graphics aren't as good as GT5, but then there are little touches (marbles off the racing line, leaves blowing across the track, damage modelling that looks pretty good). Maybe that is one reason why the AI in S2U actually drive like racing drivers. I have had some astonishing battles with the computer cars, they undercut through corners, or take you on the outside if you have the apex but brake too hard.

They will also get slightly wide or go into corners too deep sometimes giving you the opportunity to out brake them etc... It really is a world away from the monotonous world of GT5's procession driving.

You have to ask yourself how realistic or 'sim' is it for pretty much anyone to be able to easily win almost any event in GT5? Where is the challenge?

[Side rant comming on!!]
I am also tired of people saying how the physics are the most realistic of all console games. I don't think you can consider the driving physics separate from the collision and damage physics when talking about driving games.

After all the difference between a real racing driver and your average joe is that the racing driver can drive fast without smashing the car up. Damage is the natural constraint on racing.

Racing without damage, is like golf without holes, or darts without a dart board.

GT5 has only implemented 1/3 of the equation required for it to be a good racing game.

Playbility (driveability if you like) + competition (AI) + constraints (damage & rules) = good racing.

GT5 is better at the driveability and the bling, but lagging a long way behind on the rest.
[end rant]

Conclusion:
Like most driving games S2U takes a little time to get used to, but if you miss some challenging offline racing against reasonable competition you may well find you can really get into Shift 2.

It is certainly the only NFS title I have ever come close to enjoying, being less garish than most of the series and providing 'adequate' and challenging driving physics with more realistic AI.

Just my opinion, no flaming required

 

[tribolik]

I didn't want this game, but my GF surprised my with it as a b/d present.

I hate the EA's ubiquitous menu and career progression framework that get's tacked onto every fecking racing game they produce, but I had to persevere for my GF's sake.

On the first attempt it was awful, using the DS3 and the default helmet cam so I gave up. Yesterday I thought I would give it another go with the DFP and found the normal cockpit cam. I messed about with the settings a bit too.

Having taken a little time to tweak the settings and find the right view it turns out the driving is not only a lot of fun, but also challenging.

For me it is not just the graphics / physics combination that makes a racing game realistic. It is primarily the racing!

S2U provides for some really good offline racing, challenging and exciting.

Some elements of the graphics aren't as good as GT5, but then there are little touches (marbles off the racing line, leaves blowing across the track, damage modelling that looks pretty good). Maybe that is one reason why the AI in S2U actually drive like racing drivers. I have had some astonishing battles with the computer cars, they undercut through corners, or take you on the outside if you have the apex but brake too hard.

They will also get slightly wide or go into corners too deep sometimes giving you the opportunity to out brake them etc... It really is a world away from the monotonous world of GT5's procession driving.

You have to ask yourself how realistic or 'sim' is it for pretty much anyone to be able to easily win almost any event in GT5? Where is the challenge?

[Side rant comming on!!]
I am also tired of people saying how the physics are the most realistic of all console games. I don't think you can consider the driving physics separate from the collision and damage physics when talking about driving games.

After all the difference between a real racing driver and your average joe is that the racing driver can drive fast without smashing the car up. Damage is the natural constraint on racing.

Racing without damage, is like golf without holes, or darts without a dart board.

GT5 has only implemented 1/3 of the equation required for it to be a good racing game.

Playbility (driveability if you like) + competition (AI) + constraints (damage & rules) = good racing.

GT5 is better at the driveability and the bling, but lagging a long way behind on the rest.
[end rant]

Conclusion:
Like most driving games S2U takes a little time to get used to, but if you miss some challenging offline racing against reasonable competition you may well find you can really get into Shift 2.

It is certainly the only NFS title I have ever come close to enjoying, being less garish than most of the series and providing 'adequate' and challenging driving physics with more realistic AI.

Just my opinion, no flaming required

Are you serious mr?

Joking

 

[JeffKill]

After racing in S2U for so long now, the single player racing in GT5 is enough to put me to sleep. You really need to find a room of like minded people to race with online to truly enjoy GT5.

 

[alfaV6boy]

I'm genuinely curious about something. People talk of 'floaty cars', now in real life i have driven a few cars, and to be honest some have been rubbish at handling and i've felt no connection with them and the road...something else people talk about regards driving games.....'connection'.
I drive couple of Alfas right now RWD Alfa 75 track day car and Alfa GTV V6 Fwd....now i feel at one with these 'drivers' cars for sure.

Now IRL drivers are paid allot to race but also to develop, now they will put in laps and you will see if they show it on TV drivers discussing with mechs in the pits and using their hands alot to mime feelings, you will see alot of the hands going from side to side to mimic the fact the car is 'floaty' and has not feel or balance.....

Now without wanting to suggest for a minute SMS tried to replicate that...many maybe they fluked upon it, see i took the Maserati GT1 car out for some tuning and within about 10 laps i had it to my liking and was improving my lap times no end!

Now if this was a mistake to have cars that can drive badly..well its a very real one and i for one find it very rewarding getting a car to suit your style..

And remember Jeremry Clarkson has criticised some of the worlds most expensive cars for having 'floaty' lack of feel characteristics...... why should a game be any different??

 

[Spagetti69]

You make a valid point there Alfa.
I agree.

 

[alfaV6boy]

Thank you.

If in real life you can have a car that handles like a bag of spanners from stock, why not in a game?
Alot of supercars are actually bloated OTT cars which in stock form will not drive like a race car round a track, simple as that.
Look at Ferrari they produce the Enzo......the produce the FXX.....the track version which does EVERYTHING better....... why? cause the Enzo wont be that great round at track if you really really start to push it....which push it we do in games as there is no actuall real threat of anything happening if you crash other than frustration and hitting reset..

 

[C_Raccoon23]

After racing in S2U for so long now, the single player racing in GT5 is enough to put me to sleep. You really need to find a room of like minded people to race with online to truly enjoy GT5.

I agree with you completely.

And in my opinion, that's where GT5 fails. It depends too much on online to be any fun. I didn't touch GT5 at all during the PSN outage, and ever since I got Shift 2, I still don't feel the desire to play it. The single player is just severly lacking and it's ridiculous. And the boring driving experience doesn't help either. I can't enjoy the driving in GT5 because it's so dull, and the robotic AI doesn't help either.

Shift 2 is the exact opposite though. I'm really happy that it has such an intense and thrilling racing atmosphere along with the brilliant AI. The Retro championship I did several days ago against Darren McNamara was truly enjoyable and I want to do the whole thing again in a diffrent car sometime. Autolog is great as well and makes repeating events fun, but even without it, I would still play Shift 2 almost non-stop. It's definitely one of the best racing games money can buy and it's the perfect example of what a fun racing game is.

 

[jamiebird]

And what is realy sad and frustrating is that even though I have found a great bunch of people to race with on GT5, the PSN network (before and after the outage) is so innconsistent that its causes all kinds of grief. I, and others, have very fast up and down stream connections, have no problems going online with a PC but with PSN and GT5 things are never straight forward.

At the moment I am sticking to Shift2 for offline races and Live for Speed on the PC for online races. And if it wasn't for GT5 - and the DFGT not being compatible for the Xbox - I would be getting rid of my PS3.

 

[jamiebird]

Leminis: "And, in my opinion, there is some sound logic behind that. You can't simulate the Gs of a real car, the heat, the physical stress and sense of constant danger a real race driver experiences, so why shouldn't you go out of your way and try to replicate those feelings a bit by other means?"

The word that sums this up is synesthesia - one sense triggering another - Shift2 does this brilliantly, BFBC2 did the same for shooters.

 

[akyp]

Probably just me, but I find the class C cars the most fun to drive. As soon as I upgrade any car to class B or above it all goes to hell.

 

[Vaxxtx]

People atill play gt5 after the Shift2 patch? Wow...

 

[alfaV6boy]

“I'm not particularly happy with the balance of the car at the moment. I'm struggling with the rear end. It's pretty unpredictable. It's not something I like. It's something I've got to work on and improve for tomorrow.”
Jenson Button


Today after pratice......thats not realistic, maybe he needs to start playing GT5 instead of racing F1 cars.....

 

[strtgng]

Yup. It's like they felt they couldn't convey realism very well by going the usual way... It's like an abstract painting, in a way. While most other racers try to paint somethign that looks as close to reality as possible, S2U tries to convey the same feeling you'd get from the real thing.

And, in my opinion, there is some sound logic behind that. You can't simulate the Gs of a real car, the heat, the physical stress and sense of constant danger a real race driver experiences, so why shouldn't you go out of your way and try to replicate those feelings a bit by other means?

This says it all. No video game will ever replicate the true feel of driving....but S2U sure feels like both racing and fun. That is enough for me. I'll keep GT5 around to take pretty pictures in.

 

[RomKnight]

After just taking DrJustice advice on wheel settings I got a new game... And I already liked it.

I can now say my final verdict -> 👍👍

 

[lrn2swm]

This says it all. No video game will ever replicate the true feel of driving....but S2U sure feels like both racing and fun. That is enough for me. I'll keep GT5 around to take pretty pictures in.

This!

I can only add one word describing S2U. Adrenaline.

 

[Stangmaster 427]

Best sim I've played since GT1 and 4. Great cars, awsome Ai, great works kits, and awsome tracks. 5 stars from me. Endurance races are the best part of the game, in my opinion. Heart failure garunteed afterward.👍

 

[bredita]

I waited a long time before posting my opinion. I really wanted this game to work.

You can't use the name "Need for speed" when it freezes when you reach high speed... "Need for speed limits" would have been a more appropriate title

I reported the problem to EA 6 weeks ago, and they have been very nice and friendly and also generous, but they haven't been able to fix the problem.

Dirt 3 arrives tomorrow or monday and if that works properly then there's no reason _for_me_ to play S2U any more. The time is now up, so:

My final verdict: 1/10.

It gets 10 point because it's _lots_ of fun when it works.
Then it gets 9 points deducted because it is called "Need for speed" and it freezes at high speed...

 

[Luminis]

Then it gets 9 points deducted because it is called "Need for speed" and it freezes at high speed...

Just to let you know: It is not called 'Need for Speed'.
Have people still not noticed this? I mean, looking at the darn case of the game should make this pretty clear.

 

[bredita]

Just to let you know: It is not called 'Need for Speed'.
Have people still not noticed this? I mean, looking at the darn case of the game should make this pretty clear.

On the front of my case it says "
PS3 Playstation Network
Limited edition
Shift 2 unleashed
Need for speed
"

and there's a picture of a couple of cars.

Edit: and even if it wasn't "Need for speed" i still would expect it to behave when I drive fast cars. Its is, after all, a racing game, no?

 

[Luminis]

If you don't believe me:
Wikipedia.

Name

Marcus Nilsson, the executive producer of Shift 2: Unleashed, said this about why they decide to drop the Need for Speed name for Shift 2, "If you think about the Need for Speed games you've played; Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit, Most Wanted, Underground, they're very arcadey and action-oriented. Shift is going after a different audience, a sim audience, and it's about driving cars the way they feel in real life. So to not confuse the consumer - don't take me wrong, Shift 2: Unleashed is still a Need for Speed game inside the Need for Speed family, but that family has different legs. Hot Pursuit fits the action games; Shift 2 is sim-like."

Need for Speed is, by now, widely used. For example for Team Need for Speed and such. But it is not part of the title - and therefore printed at the bottom of the cover.

Edit: Good thing I'm on the Xbox360, so no freezes for me

 

[bredita]

If you don't believe me:
Wikipedia.



Need for Speed is, by now, widely used. For example for Team Need for Speed and such. But it is not part of the title - and therefore printed at the bottom of the cover.

Edit: Good thing I'm on the Xbox360, so no freezes for me

I believe you, and I have read that before, and I apologise for being ignorant enough to not make it absolutely clear in my first post, so let me rephrase that:

"You can't print "need for speed" on the cover (and have a trophy for reaching 400 km/h) when the game freezes when you reach high speed."

OK?

Anyway, and completely off topic, I sometimes wish I had bought an xbox instead of a PS3. If it worked with a Logitech G27 wheel then I would get one right away, just to be able to play Forza

 

[Luminis]

Yeah, the third party support for wheels sucks for the 360... Fanatec, and that's that. Aside from that... Most third party games look better on it, and, yeah, there's always Forza.

If I was the kind of guy that actually believed in conspiracy theories, I'd think that Sony did so to give GT5 an edge over S2U

 

[bredita]

...

If I was the kind of guy that actually believed in conspiracy theories, I'd think that Sony did so to give GT5 an edge over S2U

I'm not worried about that - the problem (in my opinion) is that the money forces them to publish games before they're thoroughly tested, and that's why "all" new games require a patch or two before most bugs have been fixed.

I'm 40 years old now, and have been gaming for 26+ years, and games generally worked better out of the box before 1995 - but games were of course also less complicated then...

So - I'm not blaming anyone, and I won't be returning the game, but my final verdict (on PS3) is 1/10, because it's not working "as advertised"... yet....

 

[DopeDemon]

shift 2 is so much more fun, it may not be anywhere near realistic.
but atleast it doesnt bore the crap out of me like gt5.
no repeating boring races for cash, as cars are bought and sold for the same price including parts.
but the best part is the autolog which ranks you against your friends on every single race, so its not some retarded ai im racing against, its my friends times im trying to beat.

 

[boxox]

I'm not worried about that - the problem (in my opinion) is that the money forces them to publish games before they're thoroughly tested, and that's why "all" new games require a patch or two before most bugs have been fixed.

Interesting comment from the PC lead over on NoGrip:

Just a thought. Before blaming developers, look at the release date - does it intersect with a publishers finace quarter? For example, Shift 2 was released on the 27th March... Interesting?

EA's Q4 FY2011 ended march 31.

 

[zhunter]

I loved the AI's challenge but was sick of its stupidity ,aggressiveness, and unrealistic in corners, so I tried out FZ3 because I just bought a new 360 slim and just found out its the best sim I've ever played! Im not starting any flame war, its just my 0.02$, FZ3 is the combination of GT5 and Shift 2, pretty challenged AI with all aids off, no best line or breaking line, set the AI to hard and there you go. FZ3's physics and graphics could be compared 50/50 with GT5, its just slightly worse in track designs espcially the 'epic ring', but in overall you'll get plenty of other tracks which don't exist in GT5 or Shift 2. Track design is an epic failure of Shift 2 when comparing to GT5 or FZ3, some people might say they dont give a **** about tracks but I dont think so, if I didn't have knowledge about the ring before, I wouldnt finish the ring challenge in 1st place, and to be honest, I couldnt remember all corners of the ring in shift 2, coz they are just the same or I used to with GT5's the ring.