Should VGT go die?
- Thread starter Flash_Noddy
- 180 comments
- 13,689 views
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
You know what doesn't help? People posting guesses as facts.
...
I'll never understand the "go play Game X" response to any level of criticism at a game. Does this mean all games are impervious to criticism now? Someone not being happy at the level of fantasy cars in the next installment of a franchise they've played for a considerable amount of time (a franchise that staked its fame on real-world car models) is not unreasonable. How it was presented may be – "go die"? Really? – but it's a perfectly valid concern.
Without a response to the question, you resort to an attack? Don't do it again.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
So I just counted, currently we know of 24 cars in GTS that are either a VGT, fictional race car or both.
Of the 137 cars that is a 17.5% fictional rate and it's only going to increase since most VGT are not absolutely confirmed, but as good as.
So again, I think it is a very valid point.
Of the 137 cars that is a 17.5% fictional rate and it's only going to increase since most VGT are not absolutely confirmed, but as good as.
So again, I think it is a very valid point.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
Since when is it unacceptable to say that if you don't like a certain feature, to mention a game that has it instead?
- 17,109
- United Kingdom
I've always liked the VGT cars, some more than others granted, but I liked the concept. Concept cars are an interesting part of the automotive landscape so I've always agreed with their inclusion, the fact that in GTS they will represent a higher percentage of the car list is a little saddening, but that's more of a reflection of the small car list than the VGT project itself. I say keep them.
GTS is a mess. It's neither an Fia based series game with GT300/500 class cars r heavily focuses on this. It's doesn't follow any Gran turismo conventions or play to any of the franchises strengths.its a ,ish mash product seemingly thrown together mini game that was designed to be spin off time stop while th real GT7 was in production.
Sure you can say 'go play another game'..
Truth is many people loved the previous GT'S despite their flaws but now really it is likely that the fan base will shrink and drastically too as those hoping for GT6 updated and flaws removed are seeing that Gran turismo as it was is now dead. And only Kaz's wishes rather than those of the fans hold any weight
It makes me sad having played Gran Turismo from the start. But all good things come to an end as they say.
Sure you can say 'go play another game'..
Truth is many people loved the previous GT'S despite their flaws but now really it is likely that the fan base will shrink and drastically too as those hoping for GT6 updated and flaws removed are seeing that Gran turismo as it was is now dead. And only Kaz's wishes rather than those of the fans hold any weight
It makes me sad having played Gran Turismo from the start. But all good things come to an end as they say.
- 36,638
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
Since when is it acceptable to continue to drag a thread more off-topic just because you don't likeSince when is it unacceptable to say that if you don't like a certain feature, to mention a game that has it instead?
- 21,261
- United States
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...er-box-concludes.337545/page-98#post-11280051
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/wrong-to-move-to-xbox.337624/#post-11057432
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
- 963
- Toronto, Canada
- times_fade
Since the last ~5 years where somehow a very specific group of people pretend to be owed everything for $60. Because by that reasoning the entire history of video game development has gotten away with the crime of the century (all games have been $50-60 since the late 80's). So, go play another game becomes and very acceptable response to those who have made hobby out of making scarcastic, sadistic comments endlessly on a game and developer who is actually doing amazing things as a whole.
zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
The Ford GT90 was a tangible, running-ish model (even made it on classic Top Gear) that previewed the styling direction for Ford for the next half of a decade.
In comparison, there are cars like the Chaparral, which is 30 years removed from being related to anything to the Chaparral of old. Or the SRT, with its amazing full body active aerodynamics package brought to you by the guys who put superchargers on 4200 pound sedans. Or Volkswagen, who haven't produced anything but conservative refreshes of designs from the beginning of the last decade but showed up with a Volkwagen Cabriolet crossed with the GT by Citroen. Or Nike, for the second time. Automakers do occasionally trot those sorts of cars out on the car show circuit themselves, but then again they are also generally ignored.
Other than having a licenced manufacturer's name on it (and the combined weight of marketing departments), there's little difference. Nowadays the people who design car models for videogames might have even gone to the same schools and be versed in the same software as the people who design cars for car manufacturers. They might not have quite the same overall skillset or understanding of engineering, but that hardly matters when we're talking about design student orgasm cars that most of the VGT project has ended up as so far. Vision GT cars aren't any better or worse than any other car made up for a videogame, including the ones PD have made themselves or partnered with people to make before. Perhaps less derivative, since usually fantasy cars are done for the purposes of skirting licencing, but not always; and it's not like automotive industry car designers don't dip into that well themselves anyway.
For that matter:
VGT cars are concept cars and concept cars are part of the real automotive industry. There are plenty of cars in history that came out because years or decades earlier there was a concept car pointing out the direction for the company (in terms of design, technology or both).
Mercedes or BMW producing a concept car is not the same as a random guy making a GTA based car in his garage. Because Mercedes, BMW, etc are experts and drive the industry. Even if they present concept cars who don't run, they are real in the sense that they represent, in a way, a direction/the future of these companies.
I never said that to be a real car it has to run/race. You'll find lots of cars that never run but were very important.
So, yep. I like to have them in GT but more than that I like the fact that PD and a lot of manufacturers are willing to make this happen and make the bridge between games and cars in general.
- 40,767
"Project cars (the game you namechecked) has a Game of the Year edition coming out soon if you're looking for something to buy a PS4 for."
"You could try these other two games in the meantime while you wait for GT Sport which is (since this is October of 2015) quite a ways away."
Since you probably spent a while digging up the second one in particular, I would have figured you would have actually read the context the post were in instead of trying to go for a lazy "gotcha!"
Though when the glass is bulletproof like here, they have to worry a bit less.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
- 17,109
- United Kingdom
The argument was that the cars being simulated by the game are real. You can't simulate something that doesn't exist. The power system of the Tomahawk is not simulated because the technology doesn't exist in the real world.
zzz_pt
Premium
- 8,188
- Porto living in Hamburg
- zzz_pt
Is this imagined?
Also, I didn't say "The cars being simulated by the game are real." I said that VGT cars are real. I didn't mention simulation.
I wouldn't mind having these cars in game even if they didn't run because (and I think this is a general opinion), people prefer real road legal and race legal cars than VGT cars to race with. They're fun and that's the main thing about them IMO.
Even if they had no engine, I would still like to take pictures of them in game.
But I know a lot of people disagree. And that's OK.
- 40,767
Like? As an example, General Motors spent most of the 1980s making concepts that looked like this:
When the overwhelming majority of the cars they produced (and continued to produce for a solid decade after) looked much like this:
Some of them had powertrains in them that was sorta relevant to what GM was working on (like the Aerotech above). Some of them had styling that was sorta a precursor to what GM would produce in the next decade (like the Trans Sport or Banshee IV). Some of them were completely irrelevant to everything and were completely dismissed. Ever see Demolition Man? Most of the cars in that were old GM concept cars, well after they had left the public consciousness. How many of any of them showed up as anything you could buy?
Every once in a while you get a wild concept that captures the attention of the public so much that the manufacturer does everything they can to get it to production. The Prowler, TT, Solstice, what have you. But that's far from the norm.
And the GT90 wasn't the best example to use, then; since Ford were upfront that it was representing the future design direction of the brand and a car that clearly used it went into production the following year.
Except when they don't, and it is obvious that they don't. Every year there are dozens and dozens and dozens of the pie in the sky "look how cool this is!" concepts that get their fifteen minutes based on whatever the central gimmick is and then are completely forgotten except when someone on Jalopnik gets nostalgic. Sometimes, like the completely silly stuff that shows up at the Tokyo Auto Show, they don't even get that much attention. And Mercedes and BMW make them too.
Last edited:
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
- 17,109
- United Kingdom
I think there was more to what zzz was saying than that.
.. but maybe we're interpreting it differently.
Not sure I agree with that statement. Simulation takes place when you put variables into a system and see what happens, often simulations are used because something doesn't exist yet. As for the Tomahawk, yeah it's at the ridiculous end of the spectrum, but it's powertrain isn't that far-fetched at all, IIRC it was the ultralight materials that was the biggest issue.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
That is the same thing, is it not? What do you mean when you say they're real? That they exist in real life, no? Because yes I would agree, they're all real in the sense that they exist as physical models, like that BMW model does, I disagree they're real as GT depicts them, with their performance. That part is entirely fictional.
Last edited:
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Tying to that, I've always been skeptical of the X's peacock panels. The support beams are tiny - could they really do what the game suggests at 350+ mph?
I'm fine with some of the more grounded VGT's. I'm not a huge fan, and I'd definitely prefer proper road cars or actual race cars in their place, but that's all. The LM55 is about the limit of what I consider personally acceptable (a decent enough stand-in for the Furai, really). But the Chapparal and SRT are just too silly by half. The "technology that hasn't been invented yet" stuff is what kills it for me: at that point, it's no different from Wipeout.
Those two feel like student design jobs in the way they predict the future. And those almost always have a habit of exaggerating the amount of progress we'll have: Lincoln in 9 years, you say?
I mean no disrespect to the people that do the work, because it's fascinating. But for me, it has little draw in a game, especially when the performance stats can simply be made up.
- 3,802
Go read another forum if you dont like it! Smiley face.
Since the reply was childish and not intended to be informative in any way.Since when is it unacceptable to say that if you don't like a certain feature, to mention a game that has it instead?
Geeze, not even close to being the same. One was a childish retort, whilst the links you provided here lead to posts pointing out other games that meet a criteria and not simply "if you dont like it play x game, i want to believe Kaz is god of racing games" .Also lol at trying to justify that vgt cars are real. They are nothing more than show pieces or marketing for one.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
Technically all road cars are for marketing as they for promotion and getting you to buy one raising brand awareness. Or maybe you just don't like concepts, and then forget most cars start as concepts?
- 17,109
- United Kingdom
Since they've been mentioned, I think you can easily look back at BMW's concepts and see what's carried through to production. Cars like the Turbo, the Z07, the Vision EfficientDynamics spring to mind - and lets not forget, the BMW VGT pretty much previewed the 2 series coupe.
Sure not all concept cars turn into production models, but just because Olds sold crapboxes whilst showing off exotic concepts doesn't mean no concept car ever contributed to the design and direction of any production model.
- 3,802
Actually, I like concepts, and I'm not against vgt's. However the vgt focus indicates to me that Kaz has forgotten gt is a game and as such the series has lost its way. I never dreamed of racing laser powered cars in a game that dont exist, I dreamt of racing cars that are beyond my means or that I simply like for one reason or another. As for all cars starting as a concept, they are concepts with a real world purpose for the end user. These vgt cars have little purpose to this end user or the end user in the car segment. I believe only die hard gt fans have or will have any affinity to these cars. Just another reason why gt is losing part of its custom base imo. What PD and Kaz do is no longer my problem as I have broken my emotional involvement with this franchise.
Similar threads
