Sil80 / 180sx / 200sx / 240sx = What´s Optimal

[oohhh yeah]

Both 180sx and 200sx is right hand drive, also it is in the euro market. My 240 is standand, no spoiler. Just a 5 speed without ABS !

I see! So explain to me this SR20DET, what is this I hear people talking about it all the time.

 

[nk4e]

In the USA the 240SX came as the following:

- S13 chassis - 1989-1994 There was a coupe and a hatchback version. There was also a limited edition convertable version. When going for the S13, most people go for the 89-93 because the 94 was available strictly as a convertable with an auto tranny. From 1989-1990 the coupe and the fastback both came with the KA24E. That's a single cam motor that puts out 140 HP and 160 lb-ft of torque. From 1991 and up it came with the KA24DE, a dual cam motor that puts out 155 HP and 160 lb-ft of torque. The S13 was also available with HICAS which is a 4 wheel steering system. Some people like it a lot and some hate it. If you plan on drifting, you don't want HICAS.

- S14 chassis - 1995-1998 Here it was available only as a coupe but got a different body styling. There are 2 different S14's though. From 1995-1996 the S14 came with oval headlights. From 1997-1998 the headlights were changed to a slanted, or "shark eye" style. That was the only difference between the 2 S14's. The S14 came with the KA24DE.

In Japan it came as 2 different models, the 180SX and the Silvia.

- S13 chassis - 1989-1998 The 180SX is the japanese version of our 240SX fastback. They are the same except for the motor that was in it. From 1989-1990 The 180SX came with the CA18DET. From 91+ the 180SX got the ever so popular SR20DET. From 1991 to 1995 I believe the SR20DET was the "redtop" and is signified by it's red valve cover. In 94 the 180sx got the S13 Blacktop. This motor was the exact same as the S13 SR20DET Redtop except the blacktop was just newer. Remember, this is the S13 blacktop. The S14 blacktop is totally different. In 96-98 the 180SX got new taillights. The silvia was also made on the S13 chassis in japan but only until 93. The S13 silvia is identical to our S13 240SX coupe except it had a different motor and different headlights. The Silvia came in 3 models in the S13 chassis. The Jack, Queen, and King. From 89-91 the Jack and Queen both got the CA18DE. From 91-93 the Jack and Queen both got the SR20DE. From 89-91 the King got the CA18DET. From 91-93 the King got the SR20DET. The SR that came in the S13 silvia's were the redtop SR's. This SR20DET had a T25 turbo

- S14 chassis - 1994-1998 On the S14 chassis, only the silvia was made. There was no 180SX made on the S14 chassis. The S14 Silvia is identical to our S14 240SX except for the motor. The S14 Silvia is like the Jack, Queen and King on the S13 chassis. The Jack and Queen both got the SR20DE while the King got the SR20DET. This SR20DET had a T28 ball bearing turbo. VVT was introduced to the SR20DET on the S14 chassis.

- S15 chassis - 1999- We didn't get the S15 chassis in the USA. The S15 got the newest version of the SR20DET. It also has the T28 ball bearing turbo like the S14. The S15 SR20DET got bigger fuel injectors that were 480 cc/min stepped up from the 370 cc/min injectors of the S13 and S14. The S15 also got a 6 speed transmission, but is said to be weak with drifters due to the thinner gears and break around 350-400 HP. I haven't really seen this proved because the Blitz S15 has about 450 HP and is still using the stock S15 tranny. VVT was used once again.

http://www.240sxmotoring.com/whisdibemo.html
To my belief why S-chassis owners go for the SR20 engine, it can fit in all American models, and probably a better market than the KA24 engine.
Wiki link

 

[Sluffer]

EurDM S13 = 200sx 88-94 left hand drive Mainland Europe right hand drive U.K CA18DET Pop-up headlights

JDM S13 = 180sx Right Hand drive SR20 DET pop up headlights
JDM PS13 = Sileighty Right hand drive SR20DET Square front no pop up headlights
USDM S13 = 240SX Left Hand Drive KA24DET Pop up headlights

S14 = 200sx SR20DET Right & Left hand drive

Found the arse end on the S13's was a bit looser compared to the S14's

 

[Warren4649]

S13 SR20 aren't as advanced as S15 ones. S15 haves a bigger turbo (S14 too) than S13.
Also theres both VVTi and non VVTi engines.
Seriously think about it for a minute! AE86 are powered by a 4AGE but they don't make as much power as AE112 4AGE because meanwhile there was a lot of changes made to the motor. In D1 or other comps when peoples have +500hp into an S13 be sure that they have swapped to a later version of the SR20 if not stroked.
A simple mod usually done is to replace the S13/180SX turbo by an S14 or S15 one.

 

[pergatory]

EurDM S13 = 200sx 88-94 left hand drive Mainland Europe right hand drive U.K CA18DET Pop-up headlights

JDM S13 = 180sx Right Hand drive SR20 DET pop up headlights
JDM PS13 = Sileighty Right hand drive SR20DET Square front no pop up headlights
USDM S13 = 240SX Left Hand Drive KA24DET Pop up headlights

S14 = 200sx SR20DET Right & Left hand drive

Found the arse end on the S13's was a bit looser compared to the S14's

Actually the 180SX you're thinking of is the RPS13, and the PS13 is the Silvia. The Sileighty was not actually made by Nissan until 1998 and they did it as sort of a fan service (very limited production, only 500 cars), before that it was not a "real" car. It was invented by people who crashed their 180SX and decided to swap a Silvia front-end on it.

Anything without pop-up headlights is a Silvia (or Sileighty).

 

[Gonales]

I see! So explain to me this SR20DET, what is this I hear people talking about it all the time.

It's the engine version as far as i know *ducks, for any comments if she fails on this comment*

 

[Warren4649]

SR20DET is the engine code, S13-14-15 is the chassis code, tho if you say S13 in Japan it refers to Silvia S13 and not 180SX.
Almost all the people call 180SX/200SX/240SX a Silvia but its not a Silvia, theres no Silvia badge on them, japanese refers to them as 180SX because they are a different models.
Its the same with Levin and Trueno, you won't call a 86 with popups a Levin because its simply not.

 

[Gonales]

SR20DET is the engine code, S13-14-15 is the chassis code, tho if you say S13 in Japan it refers to Silvia S13 and not 180SX.
Almost all the people call 180SX/200SX/240SX a Silvia but its not a Silvia, theres no Silvia badge on them, japanese refers to them as 180SX because they are a different models.
Its the same with Levin and Trueno, you won't call a 86 with popups a Levin because its simply not.

*Cheers* I was right But in GT5 itself, it says the cars do match to be honest. Is PD wrong here, or?

 

[Delphic Reason]

It's always bothered me a bit, that they have S13/S14 chassis cars in the game labeled "240SX" but they all come equipped with the SR20DET.

"240SX" is a U.S moniker. In the U.S all 240SX vehicles come equipped with the KA24E (2.4L 12v SOHC) or KA24DE (2.4L 16v DOHC), hence the name 240sx (2.4L).

In the GT games, this engine doesn't exist. Yet they have used the moniker to appeal to western audiences. Just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Gonales]

It's always bothered me a bit, that they have S13/S14 chassis cars in the game labeled "240SX" but they all come equipped with the SR20DET.

"240SX" is a U.S moniker. In the U.S all 240SX vehicles come equipped with the KA24E (2.4L 12v SOHC) or KA24DE (2.4L 16v DOHC), hence the name 240sx (2.4L).

In the GT games, this engine doesn't exist. Yet they have used the moniker to appeal to western audiences. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Im getting more confused with every post i read on here. Maybe i should just refer from trying to understand it and get back on Gt5

 

[Delphic Reason]

SR20DET is the engine code, S13-14-15 is the chassis code, tho if you say S13 in Japan it refers to Silvia S13 and not 180SX.
Almost all the people call 180SX/200SX/240SX a Silvia but its not a Silvia, theres no Silvia badge on them, japanese refers to them as 180SX because they are a different models.

This is not quite right.

Whether you are in Japan or anywhere else the S series is sold, the S13/S14/S15 is the chassis code, and is referred to as such. Whether it's a coupe or hatch (S13), they share nearly all of their components. The main difference between the two being the weight distribution (heavy rear glass of the hatch). Other than a few small differences, they are the same car. The Silvia/180sx (in Japan) is just Nissan's way of splitting one car in two, and getting twice the sales from slightly different market taste.

Its the same with Levin and Trueno, you won't call a 86 with popups a Levin because its simply not.

You would call them both an AE86, as they share almost all of their components, similar to the S series. The Levin/Trueno monikers denote the visual difference more than anything, again, like the S series.

 

[Warren4649]

Thats a pretty low move to me!
I mean why put a model of a lower car in the game, yet retire the characteristic that makes it a lower car.
I don't see any reason other than to have a bigger ingame garage.

This is not quite right.

Whether you are in Japan or anywhere else the S series is sold, the S13/S14/S15 is the chassis code, and is referred to as such. Whether it's a coupe or hatch (S13), they share nearly all of their components. The main difference between the two being the weight distribution (heavy rear glass of the hatch). Other than a few small differences, they are the same car. The Silvia/180sx (in Japan) is just Nissan's way of splitting one car in two, and getting twice the sales from slightly different market taste.

They call Silvia's S13-14-15 in reference to the initials of the car (Silvia) in relation with the chassis code.
As I said, 180SX in Japan are not considered as Silvia's and they never call it S13 (even tho its the chassis code). The S in the name doesn't stand for S(chassis)13 but stand for Silvia.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Thats a pretty low move to me!
I mean why put a model of a lower car in the game, yet retire the characteristic that makes it a lower car.
I don't see any reason other than to have a bigger ingame garage.

Lower car? What are you referring to?

 

[Warren4649]

Lower car? What are you referring to?

The fact that it has the KA24DE.
Maybe that sentence was made out of broken english but I employed the word "lower" to describes lower performances.

GT games features 240SX cars yet they have the same characteristics of the JDM Silvia's/180SX.

 

[Delphic Reason]

The fact that it has the KA24DE.
Maybe that sentence was made out of broken english but I employed the word "lower" to describes lower performances.

GT games features 240SX cars yet they have the same characteristics of the JDM Silvia's/180SX.

Ahhh, I see...

Yes, it's been a pet peeve of mine for quite some time. I wish they would include the different engine variations, but I doubt it will happen.

 

[rwmjd007]

Here is what i know about the Nissan series. The only other thinks i know about them is the with 180 in s13 it was stated as the engine capacity being a CA18 or 1.8L. The first 200sx was the s14 series. I have listed all the information I know about the different models and there lables. The CA18 (s13) has the same design as the RB30 engine (skyline).

jp is Japan, Europe and Aus. us is USA.

S13
Silvia(jp) CA18DE/T 1986-1988
Silvia SR20DE/T 1989–1994
180(jp) CA18DE/T 1986-1988
180(jp) SR20DE/T 1989–1994
240(us) KA24E/DE 1989–1990

S14
200(jp) SR20DE/T 1994–2002 these dates included s15 for the SR20
240(us) KA24DE 1991-1998

S15
Only came out with the SR20DE/T as far as I know.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Here is what i know about the Nissan series. The only other thinks i know about them is the with 180 in s13 it was stated as the engine capacity being a CA18 or 1.8L. The first 200sx was the s14 series. I have listed all the information I know about the different models and there lables. The CA18 (s13) has the same design as the RB30 engine (skyline).

jp is Japan, Europe and Aus. us is USA.

S13
Silvia(jp) CA18DE/T 1986-1988
Silvia SR20DE/T 1989–1994
180(jp) CA18DE/T 1986-1988
180(jp) SR20DE/T 1989–1994
240(us) KA24E/DE 1989–1990

S14
200(jp) SR20DE/T 1994–2002 these dates included s15 for the SR20
240(us) KA24DE 1991-1998

S15
Only came out with the SR20DE/T as far as I know.

That list is not entirely correct.

For starters, the US spec S13 chassis had the KA24E up until 1990. After that ('91 on), the only engine that was available was the KA24DE, until the end of the S13 lifespan.

Furthermore, the 200SX label did NOT start with the S14. Europe had an S13 200SX Hatch.

 

[nizmo_bro]

GT games features 240SX cars yet they have the same characteristics of the JDM Silvia's/180SX.

Visually yes, but the 240sx has much less HP than the Type X, at least in GT5.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Visually yes, but the 240sx has much less HP than the Type X, at least in GT5.

You're going to have to be more specific. There are S13's and S14's in the game labeled as 240sx's.

The 180sx (Type X) you speak of is also labeled as a 200sx and a 240sx (their stats are all identical after an oil change).

 

[Warren4649]

That list is not entirely correct.

For starters, the US spec S13 chassis had the KA24E up until 1990. After that ('91 on), the only engine that was available was the KA24DE, until the end of the S13 lifespan.

Furthermore, the 200SX label did NOT start with the S14. Europe had an S13 200SX Hatch.

Which with logic should have been name 180SX as it only had the CA18 (which is why 180SX are called 180SX because they first came with CA18).
Japanese got mixed up at the time, they probably aimed to release the 200SX (chassis code S13) with the SR20DET in Europe but then for an unknown reason decided to directly release the S14.

This makes me notice that in Europe we never got all the hot cars they had in Japan (and in US), like cressida's and others (Soarer for example).

 

[Delphic Reason]

Which with logic should have been name 180SX as it only had the CA18 (which is why 180SX are called 180SX because they first came with CA18).
Japanese got mixed up at the time, they probably aimed to release the 200SX (chassis code S13) with the SR20DET in Europe but then for an unknown reason decided to directly release the S14.

This makes me notice that in Europe we never got all the hot cars they had in Japan (and in US), like cressida's and others (Soarer for example).

They didn't go directly to the S14. They did have a 200SX Hatch (S13) in Europe, with a CA18DET in it. Confusing huh?

The 180SX name does stem from the original engine (CA18DET), yet, the name stuck even after upgrading to the SR20DET. However, in Europe they decided to just call it the 200SX (probably to differentiate between the Japanese model), although it had the CA18 under the hood.

 

[Megamarcx84]

This makes me notice that in Europe we never got all the hot cars they had in Japan (and in US), like cressida's and others (Soarer for example).

Funniest statement I've heard in awhile...the US didn't get hot cars..we got neutered sad shells of cars, detuned and softened to obscurity...

 

[nk4e]

Funniest statement I've heard in awhile...the US didn't get hot cars..we got neutered sad shells of cars, detuned and softened to obscurity...

The KA has its fan based though. Individual Throttle Bodies KA's, Stock drifting KA's..etc etc. I want to be one of them.

 

[nizmo_bro]

You're going to have to be more specific. There are S13's and S14's in the game labeled as 240sx's.

The 180sx (Type X) you speak of is also labeled as a 200sx and a 240sx (their stats are all identical after an oil change).

Perhaps you are right. I must have looked at the cars before oil changes. Had thought they had at least lowered the performance on the 240sx.

Funniest statement I've heard in awhile...the US didn't get hot cars..we got neutered sad shells of cars, detuned and softened to obscurity...

So true. I never really understood why we got the crap lower end models of Japanese cars, and also were left out on Skylines, early LanEVOs and such.

 

[SKOT_FREE]

Perhaps you are right. I must have looked at the cars before oil changes. Had thought they had at least lowered the performance on the 240sx.

So true. I never really understood why we got the crap lower end models of Japanese cars, and also were left out on Skylines, early LanEVOs and such.

Because of the Strict emissions laws in the U.S. That's why they discontinued cars like the Supra and why they stopped producing the Old R33 skylines for a short time.

 

[Warren4649]

Perhaps you are right. I must have looked at the cars before oil changes. Had thought they had at least lowered the performance on the 240sx.


So true. I never really understood why we got the crap lower end models of Japanese cars, and also were left out on Skylines, early LanEVOs and such.

Ok let me sum it up for you!
You got Cressida's, you got SC430, you got GS430 (we got too but they're as rare as diamond) this extend to all the Lexus cars of the 90's which we got too but as mentioned they're really rare here and people sell them for way too much (like 25grand for an Aristo...)

Even "crap" cars like the MKI MX5 is still around 7000grand here...

So maybe for you you had lower ****, but in here, aside AE86 (rare and overpriced), Silvia's and Supra's we don't have anything valuable (for drifting purpose).

 

[nizmo_bro]

Ok let me sum it up for you!
You got Cressida's, you got SC430, you got GS430 (we got too but they're as rare as diamond) this extend to all the Lexus cars of the 90's which we got too but as mentioned they're really rare here and people sell them for way too much (like 25grand for an Aristo...)

Even "crap" cars like the MKI MX5 is still around 7000grand here...

So maybe for you you had lower ****, but in here, aside AE86 (rare and overpriced), Silvia's and Supra's we don't have anything valuable (for drifting purpose).

I don't really see a point here. We really don't have an abundance of Cressidas, and I rarely ever get a chance to see SC430s ever where I'm from. I only see 1 GS430 on a regular basis because my neighbor has one.

The US is a big country, and I'm positive that cars that are more rare up in the NW, are plentiful in other regions of the country. I'm sure the same goes for all of Europe.

Now, getting back to what I was saying... I was saying, sure, we get S13s, but the lower end models.Same with the Impreza. We didn't even get STis until 2004. Never even got a Lancer Evolution until they came out with the Evolution VIII. We never got Type R's with the exception of the Integra, which is rare to find Type R standard, and for sale. We finally got a GT-R. There are plenty of cars where we got the short end of the stick, especially throughout the 90s.

Because of the Strict emissions laws in the U.S. That's why they discontinued cars like the Supra and why they stopped producing the Old R33 skylines for a short time.

They never produced R33s for the US. Those are the only ones that can be considered legal here because it was the only one to have crash test results that met US standards. They never even tested R32s or R34s. So those are now considered illegal, because MotoRex dropped the ball and never crash tested those and got away with saying they are similar enough to the R33 that they wouldn't need to test them.
These cars I'm sure would pass US standards, even when they were new. If anything had to be changed for US standards, I'm sure it would have been very minor.
I'm no expert on emissions or what needed to be made legal on these cars, but seeing how they never even crash tested the cars to meet US standards, they probably never had any interest in selling them in the US from the start.

 

[daltonlm]

You're going to have to be more specific. There are S13's and S14's in the game labeled as 240sx's.

The 180sx (Type X) you speak of is also labeled as a 200sx and a 240sx (their stats are all identical after an oil change).

The OP´s objective is based only in this visual model, and crown witch one is the optimal. Leave the S13 and S14 with similar mechanical specs out of it.
I guess this thread is getting kinda complex for me... can you get into the point, guys?

 

[Delphic Reason]

The OP´s objective is based only in this visual model, and crown witch one is the optimal. Leave the S13 and S14 with similar mechanical specs out of it.
I guess this thread is getting kinda complex for me... can you get into the point, guys?

Well, that's not exactly crystal clear in the first post.

However, if that's all you're interested in, the only model that will be slightly different to the others is the Sileighty. The 180sx, 200sx, and 240sx variants are all exactly the same, just with different labels.

My favorite is the 180sx variant. The 240SX just bugs me due to the inaccuracy of the model (wrong engine, body kit, taillights, etc...). We never had the Type X in the states (where the 240sx label originates). So, I tend to favor the more accurate representation... even though it is quite arbitrary.

 

[No_Charge_No]

sooo.. are you guys trying to say that people called it something elsee when its correct name is 180sx for ex? or is it like saying a civic and a civic si is diffrent bec of the engine, not the chassis? ORRR is it that a civic si with a hk22 is diff bec of the integra engine? im confuzzled