Sim Racing Cafe w/ Deluxe Hardware

[the_greeze]

Cards on the table; there's no way I'd base a business around just one IP, particularly one that's on a four-year old console. I'd be looking at PC-based sims, without a doubt...

 

[Tobor]

Just wanted to get your attention with the 6. We are using GT 5 (for now) but our hardware is not an ordinary PS3.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Just wanted to get your attention with the 6. We are using GT 5 (for now) but our hardware is not an ordinary PS3.

I was going to ask about this:

We are in North America.

We have development support from Sony and they are very interested in 3D. In fact, the emphasis is more on 3D than on triplescreens though we expect to have 3D on those too. That is part of the reason we will be using passive glasses. Active shutter glasses are much more complex to work on multiple screens simultaneously. All our hardware is going to be PS3 based though not necessarily a model available to consumers.

Tell me more . Does it have the power of 3 PS3s so you don't need any extra PS3s for triple screens?

 

[Mr Latte]

So explain exactly what your using for one of the cockpits?
What would make someone want to spend money playing one?

You have yet to prove this is a good idea from what I can see.

 

[Tobor]

We're using multiprocessors so in effect each screen of the triple has the power of a single PS3 running it. Machines running on the cafe LAN will have virtually no lag and the 3D will be running on Sony professional hi-res monitors using passive/polarized glasses.

 

[Mr Latte]

We're using multiprocessors so in effect each screen of the triple has the power of a single PS3 running it. Machines running on the cafe LAN will have virtually no lag and the 3D will be running on Sony professional hi-res monitors using passive/polarized glasses.

Oh right, so what your saying is you will be using what must be a new line of Sony commerical products. Something which certainly Im not aware of being demonstrated before or used at any previous presentation of GT5 before. Thats just a little bit odd now...

Regardless, your spending all this money and to date their is only GT5 that supports/multiscreens and possibly 3D together. So your business model for this is based on one single game with possibly another 2 years at least before GT6 would even remotely appear and I believe to date no other Sony console game has supported multiscreens.

In a commerical sense other than to promote the game this is complete utter madness. Suggesting PS3 being the best platform for such usage and with interest of the average gamer of GT5 already going to be superseeded by the upcoming FM4 your clearly dreaming. As suggested by others and really anyone with a bit of sense would clearly see the PC platform as the best choice for this. Such could incorporate many games titles the latest hardware, like including D-Box motion with multiscreens & 3D technologies.

I cant take you seriously at all...

 

[ZSPaulus]

Its really only to play GT5?

I didnt make that up out of the very brief OP. But if thats the case; then yeah; your prettymuch 🤬.

I would take Mr Latte's advice as I believe he's genuinly trying to give yu good advice rather then talk you out of a good business opportunity..

 

[Spagetti69]

Do I get discount if I use a standard car?

 

[Mr Latte]

Its really only to play GT5?

I didnt make that up out of the very brief OP. But if thats the case; then yeah; your prettymuch 🤬.

I would take Mr Latte's advice as I believe he's genuinly trying to give yu good advice rather then talk you out of a good business opportunity..

I would like to help but his replies have been very basic and so far has provided no real reason for people to support his ideas/decisions as good ones. Also the story is hard to swallow by what he has been stating.

I had similar ideas once and done a buisness plan/research to such an effect for a gaming lan type entertainment centre in the past. I even travelled to leading centres at the time. Places like "The Playing Fields" in London. However their are many downsides to this type of business idea even if used in an already popular and successful cafe enviroment, cinema/bowling complex or karting centre.

READ

As for young teens or adults they will likely have very little respect for your property and need supervised. They will vandalise anything and everything and like to pick their nose, spit and stick chewing gum on the seats or whatever. Followed with the odd, kick, pull, thump at the wheel and pedals. Arcades are made robust for a reason and all you have to do is look at any average arcade to see the damage and misuse they suffer.

The only way I see decent money made with this form of idea is on a small scale having a minimium of 4 cockpits so you have an element of competition or extra challenge not found gaming at home. You would be better off with 4x basic cockpits than one MEGA COCKPIT as they will make you more money and faster.

Targetting a busy fair/shopping centre or public event is what enviroment you are after. It is novelty/impulse type business. A numbers per hour/game and NOT from my own research a longterm sustainable repeat business model. Others have made comment that in the past hot games kept things good in the short term but then people lose interest and the novelty wears off. Also such business's start to go downhill with hardware damaged or needing replaced but being ignored with the mentioned abuse.

I do see oppertunity with a short term setup at highly populated events/places. Imo what happens is you get a few mates or group of people to pay a few £/$ each to have an arcade type of experience. No different to your Sega Rally / Daytona type arcades. Implement a nice stage and lighting, have CCTV video cameras with a large screen showing the people playing on a big screen. You need an attraction factor and element of fun excitment to entice people to have a go. Once you do that a small crowd can develope and you gain more takers. You also have 1 or 2 people in the crowd that promote it for you. Pretty girls in T-Shirt and shorts are usually a winner!

A good cafe does not need gimmicks to make it successful and the backbone of such a business is the cafe not the "gimmick". I do not see much success taking into account the investment required particulary if spending thousands. Their would be better ways to invest such money in a cafe. Finally look around and see how many "Gaming Lan Centres" are still running and ask yourself why isnt their a specialist successful franchise that already offers a turnkey solution with its own infastructure and backup/marketing? Also proof of major money firms not being able to make it a success even before online gaming really took off should be forewarning.

I showed "The Gaming Rooms" which relies on Sim Bins own commericial titles (so still limited) but certainly not consoles and a single sole game. Make enquiries and do the math to see how successful you would have to be for even such an idea on the scale of what your putting forward in hardware to make profit.

 

[occasionalracer]

We have development support from Sony and they are very interested in 3D. In fact, the emphasis is more on 3D than on triplescreens though we expect to have 3D on those too. That is part of the reason we will be using passive glasses. Active shutter glasses are much more complex to work on multiple screens simultaneously. All our hardware is going to be PS3 based though not necessarily a model available to consumers.

So if this isn't all a hoax, you must be able to clarify what type of technology or developmental reseach YOUR company has been doing to want Sony to work alongside you and your cafe idea... I'm pretty sure if Sony wanted to do testing and development on unreleased products, they wouldn't ever do it in that manner.

Fascinating story though.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I would like to help but his replies have been very basic and so far has provided no real reason for people to support his ideas/decisions as good ones. Also the story is hard to swallow by what he has been stating.

I had similar ideas once and done a buisness plan/research to such an effect for a gaming lan type entertainment centre in the past. I even travelled to leading centres at the time. Places like "The Playing Fields" in London. However their are many downsides to this type of business idea even if used in an already popular and successful cafe enviroment, cinema/bowling complex or karting centre.

READ

As for young teens or adults they will likely have very little respect for your property and need supervised. They will vandalise anything and everything and like to pick their nose, spit and stick chewing gum on the seats or whatever. Followed with the odd, kick, pull, thump at the wheel and pedals. Arcades are made robust for a reason and all you have to do is look at any average arcade to see the damage and misuse they suffer.

The only way I see decent money made with this form of idea is on a small scale having a minimium of 4 cockpits so you have an element of competition or extra challenge not found gaming at home. You would be better off with 4x basic cockpits than one MEGA COCKPIT as they will make you more money and faster.

Targetting a busy fair/shopping centre or public event is what enviroment you are after. It is novelty/impulse type business. A numbers per hour/game and NOT from my own research a longterm sustainable repeat business model. Others have made comment that in the past hot games kept things good in the short term but then people lose interest and the novelty wears off. Also such business's start to go downhill with hardware damaged or needing replaced but being ignored with the mentioned abuse.

I do see oppertunity with a short term setup at highly populated events/places. Imo what happens is you get a few mates or group of people to pay a few £/$ each to have an arcade type of experience. No different to your Sega Rally / Daytona type arcades. Implement a nice stage and lighting, have CCTV video cameras with a large screen showing the people playing on a big screen. You need an attraction factor and element of fun excitment to entice people to have a go. Once you do that a small crowd can develope and you gain more takers. You also have 1 or 2 people in the crowd that promote it for you. Pretty girls in T-Shirt and shorts are usually a winner!

A good cafe does not need gimmicks to make it successful and the backbone of such a business is the cafe not the "gimmick". I do not see much success taking into account the investment required particulary if spending thousands. Their would be better ways to invest such money in a cafe. Finally look around and see how many "Gaming Lan Centres" are still running and ask yourself why isnt their a specialist successful franchise that already offers a turnkey solution with its own infastructure and backup/marketing? Also proof of major money firms not being able to make it a success even before online gaming really took off should be forewarning.

I showed "The Gaming Rooms" which relies on Sim Bins own commericial titles (so still limited) but certainly not consoles and a single sole game. Make enquiries and do the math to see how successful you would have to be for even such an idea on the scale of what your putting forward in hardware to make profit.

Pretty much everything said here. In a nutshell, gaming centers, lan cafes, and arcades are going the way of the dino's. You kill yourself faster when you dedicate it to one game. Your lifespan ends even eariler with one platform and one game. At least going PC based you have scalability, and variety, and can actual change your model to change with the times.

At least in Korea and Japan the internet cafes are doing well due to MMO's.

And yes, it sounds like fantasy now, with this vaper hardware you are speaking of. Also, asking for advice, then dodging direct questions is another way for people not to take you seriously.

 

[Tobor]

Sigh, please look at this: http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/08/04/2489341/river-park-gets-first-raceroom.html

That is what we will be competing with. It should be obvious that I am not going to give you all the details about our plans until we actually open nor will I reveal information Sony has not made public.

 

[Mr Latte]

Sigh, please look at this: http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/08/04/2489341/river-park-gets-first-raceroom.html

That is what we will be competing with. It should be obvious that I am not going to give you all the details about our plans until we actually open nor will I reveal information Sony has not made public.

Sigh, What are you talking about?
Youve not given hardly any details never mind all of the details. Nor do you seem to question advice given or serious comments made.

Your also not competing with "RACEROOMS" at all judging by what your offering for the simple reason all you talk about is Sony and make reference to GT only. RR offers high levels of PC Simulation. Do you really think GT5 will hold such great amusement longterm that you will achieve several hundreds of people/sessions perweek willing to pay approx $5 for 15 minutes like RR do. Or are you expecting to gain 10 customers/goes a day? You do not refer to the scale of your operation neither.

Simple question, have you done the math to understand what you need to be pulling in per week to make it viable taking into account bills/wages/taxes/depreciation? Im not being sarcastic but just you put forward no sense of business reality in your posts.

"I am setting up a cafe with online networked multi-3D-monitor cockpits equipped with the best racing wheel. How much would you be willing to pay per hour for using a cockpit for GT5? "

This is NOT a lot of information nor is it on your part a great deal of research. If I was in your position I would certainly be doing and asking a lot more.

 

[alexleighton]

Well, assuming this is all on the up and up, I tend to think using iRacing would be more successful, or at least having it as an option.

I could definately see paying 20 bucks or so to do a practice, qualifying and race on iRacing on really high end hardware, or even rent the place out for league races.

 

[Spagetti69]

Well, assuming this is all on the up and up, I tend to think using iRacing would be more successful, or at least having it as an option.

I could definately see paying 20 bucks or so to do a practice, qualifying and race on iRacing on really high end hardware, or even rent the place out for league races.

Can randoms just jump in iracing then?
Thought it was subscription based.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well, assuming this is all on the up and up, I tend to think using iRacing would be more successful, or at least having it as an option.

I could definately see paying 20 bucks or so to do a practice, qualifying and race on iRacing on really high end hardware, or even rent the place out for league races.

Thought of iracing as well but how would that work with their subscricptions though and casual one timers? Id think their could be some interest if showing games like F1 2011 via PC with multiscreens and on highend wheels/setups as the PC experience would blow away what typical console owners expereince from the same game.

Not to advertise the game or use it to promote your business and in effect charge for using the hardware not the actual games. If anything find if their is a loophole that means you do not have to become affiliated with anything or pay loyalites etc. That is the angle I would be trying to find if its possible yet legal.

 

[Tobor]

Sigh, What are you talking about?
Youve not given hardly any details never mind all of the details. Nor do you seem to question advice given or serious comments made.

Your also not competing with "RACEROOMS" at all judging by what your offering for the simple reason all you talk about is Sony and make reference to GT only. RR offers high levels of PC Simulation. Do you really think GT5 will hold such great amusement longterm that you will achieve several hundreds of people/sessions perweek willing to pay approx $5 for 15 minutes like RR do. Or are you expecting to gain 10 customers/goes a day? You do not refer to the scale of your operation neither.

Simple question, have you done the math to understand what you need to be pulling in per week to make it viable taking into account bills/wages/taxes/depreciation? Im not being sarcastic but just you put forward no sense of business reality in your posts.

"I am setting up a cafe with online networked multi-3D-monitor cockpits equipped with the best racing wheel. How much would you be willing to pay per hour for using a cockpit for GT5? "

This is NOT a lot of information nor is it on your part a great deal of research. If I was in your position I would certainly be doing and asking a lot more.

Who says this is the only place I am doing research? The question was put forward here to get some off-the-cuff feedback from GT enthusiasts. As for the hardware, PS3 does exactly what we need with the software we have and are less susceptible to the hacking we are trying to avoid. Why should we use PCs?

 

[Northstar]

Why should we use PCs?

Do you mean apart from it being cheaper and giving you more options?

 

[Mr Latte]

Who says this is the only place I am doing research? The question was put forward here to get some off-the-cuff feedback from GT enthusiasts. As for the hardware, PS3 does exactly what we need with the software we have and are less susceptible to the hacking we are trying to avoid. Why should we use PCs?

You say it does exactly what you need.

So have you actually had GT5 running in 3D on triplescreens?
You say thats what your going to offer yet it has never been shown.

It is obvious why you should use PCs if you actually read the comments made.
PS3 has one single racing game that works in 3D. GT5 is also the only single game that works in multiscreens on the whole platform.

Is that really enough reason to base a business model for a Lan/Racing Centre? So far people here seem to be saying no regardless of what hardware you end up running.

You also havnt explained how you get around the LAG issues and GT5 using PSN? How is it possible for you to create a LAN network with the game when the RETAIL game doesnt support that?

 

[Raudi]

You also havnt explained how you get around the LAG issues and GT5 using PSN? How is it possible for you to create a LAN network with the game when the RETAIL game doesnt support that?

+1 that is definitely going to be an issue for multiple consoles with triple screens on 1 internet connection - my side screens lag out all the time on my Gig switch when playing GT5 online.

PC Racing games would definitely add some "WOW" factor to attract additional clients as not many folks have played Racing games on Triple Screens - it looks fabulous for Dirt 3, F1 2010, Shift 2 and GTR EVO!

 

[Spagetti69]

Is the coffee any good?

 

[Tobor]

All your questions/comments will be answered soon. But please understand, this is not a general simulator access room. We chose one game, Gran Turismo, for our racing theme. That means our hardware is PS3 though not the retail version. It doesn't even have a Blu-Ray drive. You will be able to log in to PSN and you won't be throttled back by your ISP. We're out to provide the best Gran Turismo you can experience. There is one area I will concede limits us but it would be the same with any computing hardware we choose. The 3D monitors are half-HD resolution per eye since we are using circular-polarized glasses. Not surprisingly our testers preferred them to the full-HD active glasses 3D monitors mainly because of the lack of flicker.

 

[mcfizzle]

PS3 with no Blu-Ray? What?

 

[Tobor]

It loads from the server

 

[scoddee]

When/if you open said Cafe by all means let us know. Curiousity would pull many of us through the front door (if it's reasonably nearby). I say good luck.

Scotty

 

[Mr Latte]

Sounds very specialist and not cheap.

Even more reason to say your bonkers building the business on such a closed platform with limited shelf life and no immediate replacement or alternative available to fall back on.

 

[alexleighton]

Can randoms just jump in iracing then?
Thought it was subscription based.

No, it would have to be account holders I suppose. I'm just looking at this how I would use it, since I generally do one main race a week I could see going somewhere special to do it.

I guess it would be something to contact iRacing about, see if they would get on board and set up a few "guest" accounts that could race against other people in the cafe.

iRacing has a pretty steep learning curve though, so I don't know how popular it would be with walkers by or whatever, but it should at least be an option.

 

[occasionalracer]

I want to take you serious and hope you are, especially about your ties to Sony for doing a pure GT5/6 Racing Cafe. I do think you could do well in New York or Toronto, and it would probably attract people from outside the city as well.

As for the triple 3d, if it turns out running smooth and puts you in another "dimension" of immersion in comparison to traditional triple monitor, then I'd definitely drop by once or twice a month (or more) for a few hours and race with some guys.

I'll stay tuned for your future updates... good luck!

 

[hawsuar]

surely basing this on gt5 is madness. people wouldn't pay to play gt5 when they could just play it at home so the only thing that they would be paying for is 3 screens and 3d (are you certain that this would even work! i played gt5 with 3 screens. one of which was 3d and that did't work). those are just gimmicks something people would pay for once and never come back. if your a fixed cafe then your business won't work. especially as your based solely on gt5 which is nearly a year old and doesn't Evan have any hype around it so why would anyone other then hardcore sim fans won't to use it?

this is a terrible idea for a business model and really only sounds like a dream. unless you have some kind of massive backing from Sony then only way i can see this working is if you just target big motorsport events where there and lots of fans who would pay. and I'd seriously consider changing to PC as it has far bigger advantages to it. such as more variety in games, better wheel support with better ffb, cheaper, better 3d+3 screen support, different games which provide better a simulation as well as almost everyone and anyone has already played gt5 and far more options to open it up to other games other then simulators.

i seriously recommend you take mine and other peoples advice and change your business model while you still can.

 

[Tobor]

We do appreciate even your critical comments since we expect even worse when we open. What I am surprised at is the criticism for our choice of GT. One of the advantages we saw is the ability to practice at home. The average GT player uses the standard controller while the enthusiast who can afford it has sprung for a racing wheel. We expect many of our customers to be GT enthusiasts who will practice at home then reserve time at the cafe for their "big race" where they can show off in style in front of their gallery, all wearing very cool 3D racing shades. A big part of this is the social aspect.