Sim Racing Cafe w/ Deluxe Hardware

[Mr Latte]

We do appreciate even your critical comments since we expect even worse when we open. What I am surprised at is the criticism for our choice of GT. One of the advantages we saw is the ability to practice at home. The average GT player uses the standard controller while the enthusiast who can afford it has sprung for a racing wheel. We expect many of our customers to be GT enthusiasts who will practice at home then reserve time at the cafe for their "big race" where they can show off in style in front of their gallery, all wearing very cool 3D racing shades. A big part of this is the social aspect.

Really I cant read much more as I will either cry in despair or laugh my backside off.

Lets say someone goes to your cafe. The enthausiast that leaves the comfort of their own home to play mates for the "big race" (whatever that is). How do they log into their PS3 account, access their friends and have their GT5 gamesave including their content and settings available?

Oh and getting to wear "Styled 3D Glasses" wont be a big factor to anyone other than you being out more money when someone ruins a pair or they run off with them.

 

[the_greeze]

Speaking personally, I wouldn't want to reserve playing my 'big race' on unfamiliar triple-displays and in 3D (which 99% of your customers won't have at home) when I'd be used to my home-setup. I haven't experienced 3D GT5 but I believe that its supposed to be quite dramatic, what with regard to braking points / distances etc. Why would I compromise my race by having to learn all that effectively live and 'on the fly'?

With respect, I really think you should be listening to the overall feedback in this thread and re-visit your business model.

 

[Vaxxtx]

We do appreciate even your critical comments since we expect even worse when we open. What I am surprised at is the criticism for our choice of GT. One of the advantages we saw is the ability to practice at home. The average GT player uses the standard controller while the enthusiast who can afford it has sprung for a racing wheel. We expect many of our customers to be GT enthusiasts who will practice at home then reserve time at the cafe for their "big race" where they can show off in style in front of their gallery, all wearing very cool 3D racing shades. A big part of this is the social aspect.

Why would it surprise you on the critisism of GT5? Do you think it is the pinnacle of racing games on the consoles? You do know that there is as much a strong dislike for the game as there is a following right? You also have the Forza camps. Then you have the PC serious sim racers (GTR, netkar, iracing, etc), that wouldnt touch a console game period.

So you are targeting the enthusiasts that have sprung for a wheel? Let me give you something to think about.

1. The person that purchased a wheel for GT5 (among other games) has a set up at home. Maybe a full cockpit (play seat, homeade, etc.). Why would they practice on this setup then go somewhere else for the "big" race on a completely different setup? To wear 3d glasses? Please. And the chances of all the people competing in the big race living in the same area, let alone the same country?

2. GT5 is not brand new. Many have played it, then moved on. Some may come back to try GT6, but how long till its released? Nobody knows...and nobody knows for sure when the Playstation 4 will come out. For all we know there might not be another GT game for 5 years...but Forza4 is right around the corner to steal some more thunder.

3. Most gamers that I know fall into 2 categories. The younger guy that was raised on technology, texting, and social websites. Getting these people out of the house is a chore already. Why go out when you can talk to your buds online, then jump into a game? The other is the older gamer who has responsabilities (bills, family, social events) that limit time for gaming. This is why a home gaming setup is convienient for them. Play when the kids go to bed, etc. And both have internet and voice chat.

4. More people have a home game console in their home than a PC dedicated to gaming. Point is, why would I go out to a restaurant to get a tuna fish sandwich, when I can make it at home, even if it was gourmet out? If I want something different I would be more likely to eat out. Same with gaming...I would more likely go out to play a high end PC sim that I cannot get at home, more than a bells and whistles version of GT5.

ITs your money, your time, and your vision, but I sure as hell wouldnt attempt this, with that business model in mind. I bet when GT5 was relased you have done decent for a while, but by this time, you have lost some interest and already be looking at a new direction.

 

[hawsuar]

@tobar any chance you can give us a bit more of a detailed background on what you've done so far? this might make a bit more sense then.

 

[Mr Latte]

To give some of an idea what could be done and while it probably is not perfect it might be worth a google for "The Race Centre" based in the UK and also on Facebook.

 

[Hasido]

GT5 with 3d by itself will not be good enough. I already have that with a buttkicker rig at home. You would have to offer different sims and true motion rigs. I don't think most people will have the money, the time or the space for a high end, high tech rig. Maybe it could be offered as a membership option and pay as you go option. Will it be successful? Who am I to say, but I would love to have place to go and hang out with people that enjoy this hobby.

 

[Tobor]

To offer a variety of sims we would need licenses for each unless the player brought his own software. For security reasons that is a serious no-no.

We can never satisfy everyone and no matter what we do someone will find something to criticize. So we have to do the best we can. We have looked RaceRoom in Fresno (http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/08/04/2489341/river-park-gets-first-raceroom.html) and we believe our PS3+SSD/GT based model will attract more players.

 

[Tobor]

To summarize:

We are going to have racecar simulators running Gran Turismo on PS3 + SSD with 3D monitors, about half with triple screens in 3D.

Experienced players with GT5 at home will be able to login with their existing configurations and status.

Players and spectators will be able to purchase stylish 3D glasses they can also use at the cinema. We will also have the same geeky glasses for free just like the theatres.

Oh, and the coffee will be superb.

 

[the_greeze]

Good luck because, frankly, you're going to need it.

 

[Hasido]

If you opened one near me, I would definitely check it out. You definitely should have a few motion simrigs in there. Good luck with the concept.

 

[Wiggs]

Why would it surprise you on the critisism of GT5? Do you think it is the pinnacle of racing games on the consoles? You do know that there is as much a strong dislike for the game as there is a following right? You also have the Forza camps. Then you have the PC serious sim racers (GTR, netkar, iracing, etc), that wouldnt touch a console game period.

So you are targeting the enthusiasts that have sprung for a wheel? Let me give you something to think about.

1. The person that purchased a wheel for GT5 (among other games) has a set up at home. Maybe a full cockpit (play seat, homeade, etc.). Why would they practice on this setup then go somewhere else for the "big" race on a completely different setup? To wear 3d glasses? Please. And the chances of all the people competing in the big race living in the same area, let alone the same country?

2. GT5 is not brand new. Many have played it, then moved on. Some may come back to try GT6, but how long till its released? Nobody knows...and nobody knows for sure when the Playstation 4 will come out. For all we know there might not be another GT game for 5 years...but Forza4 is right around the corner to steal some more thunder.

3. Most gamers that I know fall into 2 categories. The younger guy that was raised on technology, texting, and social websites. Getting these people out of the house is a chore already. Why go out when you can talk to your buds online, then jump into a game? The other is the older gamer who has responsabilities (bills, family, social events) that limit time for gaming. This is why a home gaming setup is convienient for them. Play when the kids go to bed, etc. And both have internet and voice chat.

4. More people have a home game console in their home than a PC dedicated to gaming. Point is, why would I go out to a restaurant to get a tuna fish sandwich, when I can make it at home, even if it was gourmet out? If I want something different I would be more likely to eat out. Same with gaming...I would more likely go out to play a high end PC sim that I cannot get at home, more than a bells and whistles version of GT5.

ITs your money, your time, and your vision, but I sure as hell wouldnt attempt this, with that business model in mind. I bet when GT5 was relased you have done decent for a while, but by this time, you have lost some interest and already be looking at a new direction.

This pretty much sums it up. Great post!

 

[ZSPaulus]

Another big issue with this is that your target group is people that play GT5 at home with a controller..

I think everyone that plays with a wheel know they didnt master racing (let alone drifting) with a 900degree wheel within a week. So how big of a bummer is it to go to your store in full anticipation only to find out you cant really do well with a wheel yet, the 3D is making you sick, and the coffee sucks.. (thats very much preference based..)

 

[Mr Latte]

What I find really good is your desire to offer people a chance to play the game in a really high end experience. Although you dont mention (my area of hobby) "tactile immersion" or what levels of audio your using (often overlooked with basic Logitech setup or similar). Will cockpits also use the T500 RS official wheel? Perhaps you prefer to offer a choice with some rigs using DF-GT / G27 / Fanatec and T500RS?

Even though we have been critical, but with good intent I still have personal issue with what seems a lack of good business judgement.

What is flawed is the lack of vision for sustained interest, repeat customers, regular customers and nothing to rekindle what will for many be a fun yes, very much so but novelty experience. You have got to get over this idea that for some reason 3D is going to WOW everyone and as for those designer shades, 90% of people wont be interested to look like a dork spending $60-$300 (whatever the prices are) for 3D shades.

Regards loopholes if you were not using logos or advertising the games and their TMs.
Why is it not possible to find a loophole like I mentioned. Could people not in theory hire or buy the game they wanted to play at your venue. With the option they play it their for a fee for using the simulators. Then you can get the hire back or you refund/buy back their game.

I would look into your own laws for your State on the matter and see if something along these lines could be achievable. Clearly their are places offer part/exchange or hire of games so why cant your establishment? This way you are not infringing or promoting a Developers game as it is upto the customer what they want to play as the game is loaned/sold to them?

Also I think it is very poor judgement on your part to eliminate FM4 which is looking to be if anything perhaps more impressive allround than GT5 and with it only coming up to launch will have more hype. That also might have an impact as GT5 will no longer be the "Talked About / HOT" racing game.

Why also limit your cafe to racing games?
Projection screen GOW 3 in 3D and other games could be popular with wireless surround headphones and big screens using move or Kinect as well.

 

[Tobor]

As I mentioned before, I haven't put all our plans here. I find some of the presumptions I've seen posted amusing as well as things I never said!

 

[Mr Latte]

As I mentioned before, I haven't put all our plans here. I find some of the presumptions I've seen posted amusing as well as things I never said!

You wont have to worry about me amusing you any longer. As for details you have been asked many things and not replied to them, so sorry if some of us had to be a little presumptious.

 

[the_greeze]

As I mentioned before, I haven't put all our plans here. I find some of the presumptions I've seen posted amusing as well as things I never said!

Well, if you post on here with vague specifications, purposely avoid answering direct questions and seemingly disregarding very good advice (from people who are trying to help), what do you expect?

Frankly, your business idea has no legs. It's all been said here in this thread already. Goodbye.

 

[P_Lav]

To summarize:

We are going to have racecar simulators running Gran Turismo on PS3 + SSD with 3D monitors, about half with triple screens in 3D.

Experienced players with GT5 at home will be able to login with their existing configurations and status.

Players and spectators will be able to purchase stylish 3D glasses they can also use at the cinema. We will also have the same geeky glasses for free just like the theatres.

Oh, and the coffee will be superb.

How is that going to work? GT5 keeps setup data on the hard drive, not on PSN.

The only way I see this idea work is to either be based by a racetrack that does frequent track days, in a busy mall, by a karting venue, or have it mobile that can be trucked out to F1 or other motorsports events. This idea would actually probably make a killing at D1 events, if you market it as a drifting simulator.

Other than that, it's going to have to be part of a bigger venue, having a main attraction, and sim cockpits as a side attraction for more revenue. And how many sim racers want to go out for coffee while their racing? It'd be more profitable to have a tittie bar along side GT5. Sim racers are not a huge coffee crowd, your better off having a small restaurant with burgers, fries, and so on. But even that probably won't help a lot. You would need a main attraction, maybe have a pro race driver teach live classes, and charge for learning sessions on certain nights, and live races on the weekends, with week day practice sessions. It would cater to the hardcore crowd, people who track their cars, kart racers, and even some casuals that want to come by and have some fun.

 

[Mr Latte]

I have to make my case to investors who are skeptical why anyone who can play GT5 at home would want to go out to a cafe to play on a rig equipped with 3D, triple-screens and Thrustmaster or Logitech GT wheels.

Their is a big difference in a good idea and an idea that is a sustainable business model. Your's my friend is neither...

The difference with places that have any degree of success at this including "Race Rooms" is that they are using proper sims. This gives the average gamer a much more realistic experience also used on great hardware and appeals to karting or motorsport fans. Their is a much broader spectrum of games and racing series available for the user to experience, all different too. It allows depth, growth and appeal to a wider audience.

You fail to realise this important aspect and base your whole business model on a "Single Game" relying on "Hardware" alone to attract your customers. Which is quite frankly farcical, yet you dont heed such advice and think you will appeal more to average people than "Race Rooms" would.

Its all a dream...

 

[Linketh]

People who argue and get defensive this much with their potential clients generally don't make good business managers. Good luck on your business. Ultimately, I feel you'd be more likely to make money (if this is indeed genuine) by opening a regular cafe and selling decent coffee and bread products.

The large majority of the population doesn't want to play video games outside of their house. Not to mention iRacer being a clearly superior option to a console game. PC's are a lot easier to upgrade as time goes on, you get more of a discount on components and overall it is just a better business idea.

Console gaming will forever remain an at home hobby. All of the console cafes I've seen opened have closed within 6-9 months. I'm pretty sure this is a wind up but if it is genuine, you really need to take into consideration what the potential users are saying.

 

[Durandal7]

The only way this has any chance at all is if -all- the setups have a full motion rig, since anyone with enough disposable income to blow any kind of serious $/hr in repeat business could easily afford a 3D or triple screen rig with a high-end wheel, racing seat, etc., and then just pay tiny electricity costs at home instead.