SimXperience - Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) Simvibe Edition

[LogiForce]

Indeed, and your assertions are quite correct. I won't lend creedence enough to any of these bogus claims to even respond. You can find some more accurate information about these transducers and SimVibe at the iRacing forums.

So you need to purchase a iRacing subscription to gain info about your products? That's just crazy to be honest and almost like tying sales, which is heavily frowned upon where I come from. Though it may not be in the USA.

Anyways... please carry on.
I was just reading this thread for future tactile extension purposes, but found this last bit to be very weird marketing. That is all.

 

[wajdi1977]

So you need to purchase a iRacing subscription to gain info about your products? That's just crazy to be honest and almost like tying sales, which is heavily frowned upon where I come from. Though it may not be in the USA.

Anyways... please carry on.
I was just reading this thread for future tactile extension purposes, but found this last bit to be very weird marketing. That is all.

Indeed!👍

 

[bvillersjr]

Fair enough. I assumed that most Sim Racers (the only market that the product serves) would have an iRacing account.

 

[Mr Latte]

For the record, really I am not interested in personal jibes, insults, or those with past disagreements being petty.

If Berney has a problem with some of the questions/ideas I have for tactile or challenges some of his own comments, perhaps even questions his recommended tactile configuration he seems to get defensive.

How many guys are talking about mixing Chassis and extensions, something he did not recommend to me on i-racing nor did he agree with me in how multiple tactile configurations can work very well. Yet sorry what are people like Greeze doing and loving already?

My answer is, the communty will experiment and decide for themselves what "they prefer" for their own cockpits. So I think here is where the personal debate / issue extends from Berney's goal of having shared configs etc compared with others or my own desires and objectives in tactile to go beyond the norm.

I am doing this, not to rub shoulders with online buddies but as a hobbyist interested in tactile. People do not have to agree with my comments, posting method or personal dislike in the marketing used.

Although I have not yet seen to date a single Buttkicker review that dismantled them, compared them and even highlighted that products like the Gamer/Mini LFE/Concert/ and this SE all seem to use the same piston or components.

So by all means criticise me, ridicule and put me down.
At least wait for the conclusion before condemning a guy...

 

[bvillersjr]

It's interesting to note that in all cases in all forums, it's you that is at odds with the world. Perhaps it might make some sense to reflect on that for a moment.


From a business perspective, it would be incorrect of me to post an in depth review of ButtKicker transducer A vs B. I will not go into the politics of this matter.

SimXperience as an entity must remain vendor agnostic. We encourage all transducer manufactures to produce a model that is optimized for SimVibe use. Most often this means the following:

-Finding ways to quiet the transducers as most sim racers wives dicate this. Additionally, I personally find a loud transducer annoying and immersion breaking.

-Somehow dealing with the fact that the SimVibe signal is rightly harder hitting than a sound track and also requires very rapid response.

We can and will enthusiastically announce a variety of transducers as various companies make available a transducer that includes the small changes needed to be suitable for SimVibe use. I'm frankly excited to see these companies taking the sim racing market seriously. People can feel free to scoff at the improvements and make light of their efforts but I'm personally grateful to have them.

As for what is used on our simulators, we will always use the best available product of the day. Presently, the Mini LFE SE is leading the way by a long shot when all our criteria (many more than are listed here) are considered.

 

[wajdi1977]

Fair enough. I assumed that most Sim Racers (the only market that the product serves) would have an iRacing account.

Are you kidding me?thanks to god we have a plenty of Sim racing softwares like rFactor 2,Pcars and the upcoming AC!and who said that iRacing is the best Sim out there?!
Iracing is only a small part of the Sim community in the world!

 

[Mr Latte]

I think their are lessons to be learned here on both sides...

Now discussing sensibly, I have not seen a single user on the i-racing forums which is meant to be where the "Sim elite" reside using or building a cockpit that will utilise audio and tactile to the extent I have planned. I am different to most in how far this journey has taken me.

For me I do not think tactile always has to be just about realisim. You seem too focused on that and less focused on the immersion possibilities some may just be after. Also the percentage of customers who buy your fantastic software and own or purchase your cockpit will be very small. So why do you constantly just refer to testing or results on your own cockpits.

You criticse the app I posted, again where has any previous tactile review even tried to utilise some form of application that allows the community to use themselves and even compare their results with what the review could provide?

If I was on some anti SimXperience crusade I would not be going to the bother.

Bottom line if a bit of foam makes a great deal of difference then people can decide to buy your version or the standard product. Some may already own one and get their own sponge/foam or decide to do their or own modification.

I would of expected you at least to agree the process in the "modification" is not exactly a master-class in precision or audio/acoustic engineering. Yet you had to approve it and know full well what it involved.

So from a review perspective I stand by what I have already highlighted. How I find your product compares and differs might matter to some people but I do think yourself and Buttkicker could of put more effort into this.

.

 

[bvillersjr]

Sure, it's a simple modification. Presumably it's also one that would void a warranty if done on a DIY basis.

We conducted a large beta test. The results was almost always the same. People would say WOW, this is great and 2 or 3 days later say hmmm..how can I quiet my transducers. This isn't picking on any one brand but it is to say that we're not so foolish as to test only on 1 simulator cockpit. The best test is a real world test and therefore we utilized a wide variety of folks who signed up for the beta and reported their hardware and results.

We looked at what could be done from a SimVibe software perspective and aside from a few filters and options that were added, there wasn't much. Any further alteration and we would compromise the quality of the physics data.

That turns the users request back to transducer manufacturers for solutions. I'm sure I've said it 100 times but I'll say it again, the accoustic dampening foam helped alot. I guess it's not a big surprise that an accoustic dampening foam accoustically dampens.

If there is an issue with your particular transducer, I have no doubt that the guys at ButtKicker will provide you with 1st class service.

 

[Hayden]

If I may step in, I noticed that the SE version runs straight off of the SimXperience software and doesn't use audio signals like the regular Buttkicker does. I'm not taking sides here, but I'm sure that on the electronics side quite a bit would need to be fiddled with to make the SE use this different signal.

On the other hand, I feel that not even changing the case design, or painting it, or even putting a sticker on it is downright lazy. This piece of foam obviously isn't the only difference (noting what has been said about the signals) but being the only visible difference was always going to make people ask questions. I think buttkicker deserves a little more credit then you're giving them, Mr Latte for the software incorporation. I also feel that bvillersjr should take what I've said here and use his far more in depth knowledge of these kinds of products and the SimXperience software to convince Mr Latte, myself and everyone else here that it's worth the price of buying an SE over the standard Buttkicker and some foam.

Sorry If some of this doesn't make sense or is completely irrelevant, I'm just another possible customer juggling things around in his head.

 

[LogiForce]

The signal is still an audio signal (albeit, not one that one would regard to as a sound effect or music that is pleasent to one's ears).
Also the Buttkicker mini LFE SE still needs an amplifier like all the other Buttkickers.

 

[Hayden]

Cheers for pointing that out, I'm still very new to this side of sim racing

 

[left888]

Iracing is only a small part of the Sim community in the world!

You're joking, right? I know there are a few of you guys that think pCARS is the gods gift to sim racing but ... I'll let you experts debate that, I'm off to practice in the small part of the community (lol)

Wow.....

Another one of your fine contributions to our community

So you need to purchase a iRacing subscription to gain info about your products? That's just crazy to be honest and almost like tying sales, which is heavily frowned upon where I come from. Though it may not be in the USA.

Don't you ever tire of writing your constant dribble?

For the record, really I am not interested in personal jibes, insults, or those with past disagreements being petty.

That's a lie and you know it, I can show you hundreds of your threads that show otherwise.

mr latte if you are genuinely not interested in "personal jibes, insults, or those with past disagreements" then it's time to do the same unto your fellow members.

It's interesting to note that in all cases in all forums, it's you that is at odds with the world. Perhaps it might make some sense to reflect on that for a moment.

I personally think mr latte needs to realize that it's much better to treat fellow members the way he wants to be treated. I had to lock my cockpit thread because of his constant badgering and his poor attitude, as had fellow members.

 

[LogiForce]

Don't you ever tire of writing your constant dribble?

If you are too tired to read this properly... just keep silent and move on, left888

That is my viewpoint, yours differs. I accept yours even though I disagree.
I see that you can not, unfortunately.

This is quite sad to be honest, because I thought a grown man would be able to handle discussions in a decent fashion unlike a youngster like myself.
This includes accepting different viewpoints even though you tend to disagree.

Or are you (for example) maybe the kind of guy who would seriously go out and continues to attack the guy who voted for the other dude to become president now?
Cause that is what you are doing now. You know we both disagree with each other, but you love to attack me.

Anyways... accept my point of view and move on. Please?

 

[left888]

The only sad thing is your attitude, you try to mock Berney and spread lies to this forum about his awesome software, trying to say the only way to learn about Simvibe is to have an iRacing membership? Your constant babble and immature attitude is wearing thin, so please stop. You are the one that needs to move on LogiForce.

 

[Caz]

Indeed, and your assertions are quite correct. I won't lend creedence enough to any of these bogus claims to even respond. You can find some more accurate information about these transducers and SimVibe at the iRacing forums.

Left: I believe what logiforce was speaking about was this very quote.
Instead of claiming people are telling lies and leaving it there, why dont you point oit what he is lying about.

 

[LogiForce]

The only sad thing is your attitude, you try to mock Berney and spread lies to this forum about his awesome software, trying to say the only way to learn about Simvibe is to have an iRacing membership? Your constant babble and immature attitude is wearing thin, so please stop. You are the one that needs to move on LogiForce.

Sir,

Berney was in conversation with Mr Latte about the Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) which this topic is about, not his (I agree) great piece of software called "SimVibe".
As quoted in my original post Berney mentioned that we could go over to the iRacing Forums for more information about the Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) as he posted said information there.
However, as you sir know yourself as a long time iRacing member. It is impossible to access the iRacing Forum without an active membership.
This in return makes that the information that Berney has made available over at the iRacing forum, is only to be had when a (potential) customer for SimXperience's Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) has to have or has to buy an active iRacing membership.
Because of this I called it "almost tying sales", because I think this in itself is unfair for the potiential customers who are interested in the Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) and wish to know more about it.

Also about the attitude, sir. You have started this conversation in an immature and annoyed tone and a personal attack on me by calling my voicing of my point of view "dribble".
Though I think this was caused by a misunderstanding as has become appeartant to me in your post (as quoted in this message).


I hope I have explained my reasons and point of view well enough to you. Cause those were all and my only thoughts behind my post as quoted in your initial message to me in this thread.

I wish you a very good day and good fortune in your sim racing career, sir.

Yours sincerely,
Christiaan van Beilen

 

[left888]

Once again your childess attitude wins over, any information that Berney has to offer can be had at his very public website, yet you need to act like a drama queen to try to get your pointless information across. I think you are still very sore that you failed at iRacing that it still stings and any mention of that site renders you to the child you are, grow up and move on.

 

[LogiForce]

Once again your childess attitude wins over, any information that Berney has to offer can be had at his very public website, yet you need to act like a drama queen to try to get your pointless information across. I think you are still very sore that you failed at iRacing that it still stings, grow up and move on.

Hello sir,


I am just using correct manners to speak to someone older then me in a sincer yet respectful tone, because I am sincere about the reasons I stated.

If you would like to call me names and attack me on a personal level every time when your heart feels like it, then by all means feel free to do so.

Also in all actuality the only thing sore at this point in time are my fingers, because I have been playing my guitar a bit too long for today.
However, this as well as my playtime in iRacing have nothing to do with this conversation.
Also, I have never considered myself to have failed in iRacing. So I don't know where your assumptions of me being "sore" about failing would come from.

Though view my actions as you wish. However, in my humble opinion and with all due respect, sir, you are delusional in this case.


Yours sincerely,

Christiaan van Beilen

 

[bvillersjr]

These forums are an unmoderated disaster. I can't seem to figure out how to close my account here. Not to be arrogant, but I have alot of cool projects brewing and my time is more valuable to me than to participate in this nonsense. I suppose there will always be haters and those whose synapses misfire in such a way that they buy into their own warped logic. It's probably best for me to pay a low wage employee to entertain these types of things.

If anyone from this forum actually is paying attention, I would be grateful to have my account removed and receive no further emails from this circus.

 

[thehawk05]

 

[wajdi1977]

You're joking, right? I know there are a few of you guys that think pCARS is the gods gift to sim racing but ... I'll let you experts debate that, I'm off to practice in the small part of the community (lol)


Another one of your fine contributions to our community


Don't you ever tire of writing your constant dribble?


That's a lie and you know it, I can show you hundreds of your threads that show otherwise.

mr latte if you are genuinely not interested in "personal jibes, insults, or those with past disagreements" then it's time to do the same unto your fellow members.


I personally think mr latte needs to realize that it's much better to treat fellow members the way he wants to be treated. I had to lock my cockpit thread because of his constant badgering and his poor attitude, as had fellow members.

I don't play Pcars and I don't think that it's a simulation game!I'm playing rFactor 2(for me the best simulation out there) but that doesn't mean that Pcars sucks,it is a good game with a big community that is growing and I think that a company like Simxpirience should take in consideration!

 

[bvillersjr]

There is a SimVibe thread in the rFactor forums. Unfortunately, it's been dead for weeks. Nontheless we are avid supporters of rFactor 2 and distribute it with our simulator packages.

Now, can someone please tell me how you can cancel a forum account?

 

[HoiHman]

I have bought 4 mini LFE SE from simvibe. I agree with both Berney and Mr Latte on their various points they make.

Two things first

-We were made to believe that this was a complete redesigned tactile transducer for Simvibe, which is not the case.
-The Mini LFE SE version reduces the bottoming out of the piston in the transducer. This almost completely eliminates this irritating noise.


The Mini LFE Simvive Edition is an original Mini LFE from Guitammer, modified with acoustic foam by Guitammer (the buttkicker company)

The first shipment was send with broken seals and opened boxes. Now the boxes are sealed with a sticker from Guitammer, which somehow does give a better feel to it.

Why do I think both Berney and MrLatte are right: I'll try to explain this, remember English is not my native language.

My first impression on the actual mod is, that it may not look very professional when you open up the mini LFE Se, but it's effective. 👍

I have not had the time to make a proper comparison between the two, but I agree with Berney that the SE version is quieter than the normal versions.

But not in all cases. I have only done one test with Engine RPM because it's one of my favorite effects in Berney's GREAT piece of software.

Without adding filters Engine RPM is a difficult effect for the transducers. For comparison I used an out the box engine RPM effect, with only the volume turned up

When the engine idles the normal Mini LFE tends to bottom out and produces that irritating noise.The Simvibe Edition completely eliminates that. At high RPM however the Simvibe Edition seems to produce a harder buzzing noise than the regular Mini LFE.

There are some pretty big performance ( read noise ) differences between the different Mini LFE's SE. I have a loud Mini LFE SE and some quiet Mini LFE SE.

I have reported this back to Berney and to Guitammer. Feedback from Guitammer was to add extra foam to the noisy mini LFE.(see picture) Sadly that did not solve my issue. l waiting on Guitammers response on the big noise difference between two SE units still not being solved

If MrLatte has received a loud one, I get his point.

I agree with Berney: first test and then dismantle. This gives the test a higher creditability, however you can't do anything wrong taking a mini LFE apart.

That brings us to the next question: Should current mini LFE owners 'upgrade' to the SE version? The answer to that question is NO.

This is mod you easily do yourself with a good glue and some acoustic foam.

(picure was taking while making adjustments on the mini LFE SE on Guitammers request)

I think all SE users should stock up on some foam anyway, because I my opinion in time the foam will were out and you have to replace it.

I don't think that an issue for most simvibe users though. It's more like servicing your transducer. Time will tell how long the foam will last, but perhaps Berney can comment on that, because I'm sure they have done some extensive testing. He also right about the fact that not the simraces themselves are complaining, but their wives are

I have taken the gamble of buying the SE overseas and paying high shipping fees and import taxes to get here in the Netherlands. Would I buy them again?

Probably not. If would have bought 2 extra mini LFE's and modded them myself with the two i already owned. I do not regret my purchase though.

If I lived in the USA, I WOULD buy the SE version. Simply because for $8,- difference. You simply should not take the risk of doing the mod yourself. This a mod with warranty

Al warranty issues are handled by Guitammer. One of the Mini LFE SE I received was not working. I reported this on Monday and received a new transducer directly from Guitammer on Thursday.Taking in account that they are located in the USA and I live in the Netherlands, that's pretty impressive. 👍

Note that this is just a preliminary comparison, NOT a review.

I was planning to do an extensive comparison in the near future, covering more effects but because of the posts in this topic in the last 24 hours, I felt I had to respond. More testing will be done in the future. I had to send my amp back to the shop, because the fan was too loud. This kind of limits my current testing ability. Ofcourse my testing was done on solid brackets, i would even dare to jump in this topic without being sure of my testing methods.

All I ask is : do not attack me, I do not have any hidden agenda, this is just a FIRST impression.



If you have any questions feel free to ask. Nicely.........

 

[LogiForce]

There is a SimVibe thread in the rFactor forums. Unfortunately, it's been dead for weeks. Nontheless we are avid supporters of rFactor 2 and distribute it with our simulator packages.

Now, can someone please tell me how you can cancel a forum account?

I am personally sorry to see you go, because of my dispute with Left888 and yours with Mr Latte. It will be a loss for the rest of the community here.


In any case, I have found this in the site's F.A.Q. of which the link is in the footer of the site.

Account Deletion: https://www.gtplanet.net/faq/#account_deletion

 

[ilonioum]

I have bought 4 mini LFE SE from simvibe. I agree with both Berney and Mr Latte on their various points they make.

...

Thanks a lot mate, your post was very informative, helpful and clean.

 

[HoiHman]

Thanks a lot mate, your post was very informative, helpful and clean.

You're welcome

Nice to see some positive "vibes" again in this topic.

 

[the_greeze]

Thank you for that Henk 👍 I will possibly modify a couple myself and see how they feel.

Berney, I hope you reconsider your position here as it would be a shame to lose you from the forum.

 

[LogiForce]

Henk,Mthanks for the first impressions and steering us back into the right direction.

I have a few questions though that might interest others.
First of all what foam did you use to mod your own? As in brand, shape, density and so on?

Then my second question would be. How do the three mini LFE's compare subjectively on performance and noise levels in your opinion? And with the three I mean the standard model, the simvibe model and your own modded one?

I hope your fixed/new amp arrives soon as I am looking forward to your review.

Cheers!

 

[HoiHman]

Christiaan,

I'm afraid i set the wrong impression, apologies for that.

I did not modify my Mini LFE

I've been in contact with Adrew from Guitammer about the noisy Mini LFE SE.
On his advice i opened my BK mini LFE SE and added extra foam to it, to see if it solved the issue. That's when the picture is taken.

The advice from Guitammer is to use foam simular to this :
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040JHMH6/?tag=gtplanet-20

To bad it did not solve my issue that this one Mini LFE SE is much louder than the other ones.

I contacted him about that yesterday and i'm waiting for a reply.

 

[LogiForce]

Christiaan,

I'm afraid i set the wrong impression, apologies for that.

I did not modify my Mini LFE

I've been in contact with Adrew from Guitammer about the noisy Mini LFE SE.
On his advice i opened my BK mini LFE SE and added extra foam to it, to see if it solved the issue. That's when the picture is taken.

The advice from Guitammer is to use foam simular to this :
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040JHMH6/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0002ZPLE8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0ZB9VRX1X406J1JNBE3Q

To bad it did not solve my issue that this one Mini LFE SE is much louder than the other ones.

I contacted him about that yesterday and i'm waiting for a reply.

Thanks for clarifying, Henk.

I guess people who would want to mod their buttkickers can then decide upon doing so, knowing the risk of warrenty loss of course.
Also I don't know the warrenty length of these items from the top of my head, but if the (SE) would run out of warrenty and the foam is worn then it would be a probable replacement. Though maybe it would be wiser contact Guitammer by that time as they might have better suggestions for replacement materials by that time since products and best practices of course keep improving.