SimXperience - Buttkicker Mini LFE (SE) Simvibe Edition

[SimXpert]

Interesting thought. Hard to imagine that you actually just read the thread based on your comment. If the use of foam makes it the work of a common handyman, then every ButtKicker ever made is the the work of a handman in his garage as you would so elegantly put it because THEY ALL USE FOAM.

I think the point here was that physics based feedback, whle more realistic than basic audio, cause ButtKickers to hit the end cap, thus a solution was needed. Why would anyone redesign something from the ground up if a simple fix was all that's required?

From what I see, there is now a way to obtain the fix without voiding warranty and for less than MSRP.

Or for those who have transducers that are out of warranty, they can mod their own.

 

[museumsteve]

Interesting thought. Hard to imagine that you actually just read the thread based on your comment. If the use of foam makes it the work of a common handyman, then every ButtKicker ever made is the the work of a handman in his garage as you would so elegantly put it because THEY ALL USE FOAM.

I think the point here was that physics based feedback, whle more realistic than basic audio, cause ButtKickers to hit the end cap, thus a solution was needed. Why would anyone redesign something from the ground up if a simple fix was all that's required?

From what I see, there is now a way to obtain the fix without voiding warranty and for less than MSRP.

Or for those who have transducers that are out of warranty, they can mod their own.

Exactly right 👍

 

[timothyddx]

I have had a buttkicker gamer2 for since GT5 came out. Liked the idea so much that I purchased a second bk gamer2 to have stereo feedback, but HATED the feedback as it was audio only and did not make me feel like I was in a car (I have an AMG and I feel everything on the road, much to my wife's displeasure). Tried to get into the Simvibe beta as I built a custom computer for my simulator (wanted to graduate from GT5 to a real simulator with iRacing and Rfactor2) but had to wait to purchase it. WOW!!!

So after purchasing Simvibe, I went out and purchased 2 BK LFE mini's. Saw the evaluation of Mr. Latte and decided to void my warranty after buying some high quality acoustic foam. So with Simvibe, the transducers were over driven to the limits no matter what level of volume, with the acoustic foam it really softens the endpoints and while it does not prevent rattling at the endpoints, it does allow me to adjust my volume to just below the limits of the transducers.

[note: the allen screws are english, not metric and they appear to have loctite on them, thus the first 90 degrees feels like you are going to break your allen wrench off, but taking them apart is very easy)]

The BK Gamer and LFE mini's were the exact same besides the mount. I would highly recommend against the gamer only because I dislike the cheap digital amp (you have to count the clicks for volume) and I just have two stereo reference power amps to drive my four channels of transducer bliss.

I have the 1st generation Obutto seat with 3 27" monitors and two GTX670's in SLI with 5.1 surround. Having the transducers mounted to the frame gives such great feedback for the wheels and engine sounds. This was easily one of the highest return on investments for sim-racing, not from making me a better driver (impossible) but from the immersion perspective of racing.

One word of advice for implementing Simvibe, easy does it with how many sounds you drive. I have shifts and impacts on all the channels, front and rear tires on aligning channels, and engine sounds on the rear channels (as they are right under the seat). I would pay the money again for simvibe it was that good of an investment for me personally!

 

[museumsteve]

Nice write up mate

 

[bent98]

Hey tim

I have an obutto as well. Can you please post pics of your setup?

 

[cpvasconcelos]

Good evening from Portugal!

This is an old thread, but I read it through and allow me to have something to say.

In this world, there are several kinds of people, namely some genious guys that create things and make the world a better place, and the rest of us that use those stuff.

Berney from Simxperience, has created probably the best motion sim out there (from my personal research) and recently created Simvibe, that truly changed the way our tactile feels in iRacing and others.

Just because of this, Berney deserves 100% of my respect and admiration.
Now about the subject of this comparison, there is a saying that Devil is in the details. Why does it bother you so much that a very simple invention can benefit our beloved buttkicker?
Once again, I respect Berney to reach out to another company and together with them, tried to create a better product for us all.
Is Berney making money out of it? I sincerely hope so, I would love to see Bernie in the business for years to come.

To me, those who create a good movie deserve my respect, those who critize it without any positive objective, don't.

About me just a quick note: I bought SimVibe and rate it 100%. The only reason why I didn't buy a SimXperience YET is that my wife is pregnant of my second daughter and I cannot justify to us all this investment at this moment... but I dream about it every time I seat to race.

So, final words: Steve Jobs said let's create a dent in the universe. Berney has changed our racing universe, I respect his work 100%.

Cheers,
Carlos.

 

[THE_Shev]

Hey all,

Interested in the Simvibe chassis mode, so for that i will need 4 transducers and some other components.

Most important thing i wanted to know if it is possible to mount this on the Rseat Formula.

Looking to buy a seat at the moment, so would like to know if someone can help me out.
Also the Rseat Evo v3 is an option but then as second choice.

Anyone who can help me out:tup:

Grtz

 

[HoiHman]

@THE_Shev

You will love the chassis mode
I can't help with the seat selection, but check Wakuwaku's answer on digitalracing



Codemasters fixed the extradata=1 crashes on Grid2.

The game now works with full simvibe effects. I don't know if Berney already has released the update, but i expect it will be released soon.

With the simvibe and a cockpit mod, i'm having great fun with this arcade racer

 

[museumsteve]

Anyone have an issue with SimVibe checking for updates and failing?

I've only noticed tonight but nothing's changed in my setup.

It's coming up with an error box that says :-

Unable to read director.xml
Root element is missing

I'll put in a message to support at Simxperience but thought I'd ask if anyone else has had this message.

 

[LogiForce]

@THE_Shev

You will love the chassis mode
I can't help with the seat selection, but check Wakuwaku's answer on digitalracing



Codemasters fixed the extradata=1 crashes on Grid2.

The game now works with full simvibe effects. I don't know if Berney already has released the update, but i expect it will be released soon.

With the simvibe and a cockpit mod, i'm having great fun with this arcade racer

Great news on the fix. Now if they would kindly do the same for Dirt 3. 💡

Edit:

Any word about ETS2 support?
After all they just started work on their 'SDK' and added Fanaleds. Would be nice to have some Simvibe support too.


Edit Edit:

Anyone have an issue with SimVibe checking for updates and failing?

I've only noticed tonight but nothing's changed in my setup.

It's coming up with an error box that says :-

Unable to read director.xml
Root element is missing

I'll put in a message to support at Simxperience but thought I'd ask if anyone else has had this message.

I have the same, Steve.

 

[LogiForce]

Alright, just tried reinstalling Simvibe. Now I can't update at all.
It now says the server is down.

 

[HoiHman]

Usually an simvibe update is releaesed on a friday. This could explain why the server is offline. Maybe you will have better luck later today

I just downloaded a beta version for testing from their website, so they are still online.

 

[THE_Shev]

@HoiHman, got a reply back from Wakuwaku, but he has the Evo seat.

But the Rseat Formula is in my head
Will ask on some other fora, if there are people with that seat and Simvibe chassis mode.


Hopefully i will have some luck:tup:

 

[LogiForce]

@HoiHman, got a reply back from Wakuwaku, but he has the Evo seat.

But the Rseat Formula is in my head
Will ask on some other fora, if there are people with that seat and Simvibe chassis mode.

Hopefully i will have some luck:tup:

I think you will have to build a platform for mounting the tactile transducers on. Put the platform on rubber feet and the rSeat on rubber feet.
I too have the Evo though, which isn't really tactile compatible apart from the Buttkicker Gamer 2 mount.

Why not contact rSeat? I would hope they at least know how compatible their own products are.

 

[raptoronwheelz]

This should be fairly simple to answer: single transducer/bass shaker underneath cockpit seat. Mini LFE (or SE) or Clark Synthesis? Amp selection is any of the 200W-300W plate amplifiers found at Parts Express. Simvibe will be used but I'd also like it to perform well straight off the soundcard for other genres of games.

 

[LogiForce]

This should be fairly simple to answer: single transducer/bass shaker underneath cockpit seat. Mini LFE (or SE) or Clark Synthesis? Amp selection is any of the 200W-300W plate amplifiers found at Parts Express. Simvibe will be used but I'd also like it to perform well straight off the soundcard for other genres of games.

I guess you mean the Clark TST209?
I have no experience with Clarks, but the mini LFE I have is powerful enough. I personally would prefer the normal mini LFE over the SE as the foam tends to wear out quickly.

If you say amp selection is between 200-300 Watt the Clark TST209 falls off as it needs an amp of ~400 Watt to properly power it as its max output is at 350 Watt.
The reasons for this I have posted big posts about in the Simvibe topic.

There are two plate amps that picked my interest from what you wanted. That is the Yung SD300 and the Bash 300W. The Yung is less limited via its pass filters, while with the Bash you can't use the mini LFE's full frequency range (let alone that of a Clark that goes up to 17.000 Hz).
So for that reason alone I would pick the Yung.

So I would go for the Yung SD300 with Mini LFE.

 

[raptoronwheelz]

Yes, the TST209.

The Yungs look good; plus they're on special; plus they're D class. According to PE tech, the Yungs and Daytons are high-passed at 18Hz; BASH 19Hz. I never asked for roll-offs. I'm liking the 200W Yung at $99. I don't think I'll ever need anything close to the full wattage limits of the Mini or TST209, unless somehow max transients are reached at low output levels.

 

[LogiForce]

Yes, the TST209.

The Yungs look good; plus they're on special; plus they're D class. According to PE tech, the Yungs and Daytons are high-passed at 18Hz; BASH 19Hz. I never asked for roll-offs. I'm liking the 200W Yung at $99. I don't think I'll ever need anything close to the full wattage limits of the Mini or TST209, unless somehow max transients are reached at low output levels.

It's not about maximum output but how well the amplifier can drive transducer. An amp that has power to spare can not only more properly drive the amp at high output, but will also be able to drive the transducer easier and accurately near the transducer's minimum wattage rating (the wattage rating it starts to operate at).
Plus you have less risk in blowing up the amp or transducer when the amp's maximum wattage rating (per channel) is above that of speaker(s) it will drive.

It is your money and your risk in the end. Though don't blame me if something goes wrong or isn't doing what you'd hoped it would do.

 

[raptoronwheelz]

Thanks for the input. Do you have problems with your BK bottoming out below 35Hz? There's a shootout thread on AVS forum between BK LFE Mini, CS TST209 and Aura Pro and the guy mentioned the BK LFE Mini bottoms out under 35Hz when it's at higher wattages. In his review he limited the BK LFE Mini to ~130W with his iNuke DSP.

 

[LogiForce]

Thanks for the input. Do you have problems with your BK bottoming out below 35Hz? There's a shootout thread on AVS forum between BK LFE Mini, CS TST209 and Aura Pro and the guy mentioned the BK LFE Mini bottoms out under 35Hz when it's at higher wattages. In his review he limited the BK LFE Mini to ~130W with his iNuke DSP.

I have to confirm this, but with Simvibe I never noticed this. Most likely because of the frequency range used for Simvibe's effects not going below 30-35 Hz (though did not confirm this).

What I did to confirm the guy's statement was load up a clean profile on the iNuke NU1000DSP without limitations (he has a 3000 watt version btw).
I used an app called 'Audio Tool' by Performance Audio on my iPad to generate a steady tone of 35 Hz and set the volume on the amplifier to maximum.
At 35 Hz nothing was going on, but as soon as I went below 30 Hz the mini LFE did bottom out. This could be easily heard as well as felt (by putting your finger on the top hole).

What you could do is with the Dynamic EQ make it so that it pulls down the volume of any effects below 30 Hz once they exceed a certain threshold. That way you don't need to use the filters at an earlier stage than required by the specifications given by Buttkicker.

I recommend a Dynamic Equalizer setting of...

Type: BP
Frequency: 20.0 Hz
Quality: 6.0
Gain: -5.0 db
Threshold: -19 db
Ratio: 1:5.0
Attack time: 2.0 ms
Release time: 1200.0 ms


This worked fine for me and the Buttkicker's sound didn't change when cycling from 35 Hertz down to 20 Hertz.

I hope this answers your question and maybe shows the capabilities of another feature of the iNuke DSP as well. Because this way you won't kill what is below 35 Hz like what the guy at AVS did with the filters.

Edit:
I just tested but the Buttkicker will still bottom out on the extremely low frequencies of the song 'Bass I Love You'. But that song can do that with most (if not all) setups anyway. So in that case you will need to use the filter still to drop of the below 20 Hz extremely low end considerably..

 

[Paul33993]

This thread seems to have morphed into something different, so I think it's now safe to ask this question: If you wanted to prevent noise from it bottoming out, wouldn't removing the end caps be the best solution?

Obviously it leaves the piston exposed, but if it's in a location that's safe from bodily harm, would there really be any danger in that? Wouldn't this be the ultimate solution for the quietest rig? Or is there some reason this is unacceptable?

 

[left888]

You want to keep the end caps on for the compressed air at the end of the stroke cycle, removing the end cap will unbalance the stroke. I experimented somewhat and removing the end cap hampers the effectiveness.

 

[Paul33993]

Good to know. Thanks.