SNAIL December Tire Grade Trial Discussion

[Dragonwhisky]

Here's where everyone may post thoughts on the December Tire Trial.

~Dragonwhisky

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I'm really enjoying combo 1 (cs) and combo 2 (sh) mostly due to not using the accelerator as an on and off switch. I do feel like the Renault could have been on CM tires. It was a challenge adjusting to the difference in grip between R1 and R2.

 

[Worst_Driver]

I'm happy with the new tire formula no surprises here. Slower cars are more lively, fun to throw around and feels different from one another.

I'll share this thread in the main thread.

 

[JLBowler]

While I did not race in December, I did do some driving with the newly assigned tires. I found that to be fast (mid division lap time), the tires had to be screaming most of the time. I wouldn't say anything was out of control or too difficult to control. I would say that more focus had to go to keeping the car in line as would be expected on lesser tires.

The one suggestion I would make would be to work on adjusting tire wear to a point where it's not like magic fairy dust where the tires can be abused and there are no consequences. You should not be able to have the tires scream at you in every corner, slide the car around and still have grip left at the end of a race. This is an opinion that I have long held even with the old tire model. The counter-argument has always been that controller users would be at a disadvantage if tire wear was implemented in this way. I understand that and have always been willing to suspend realism for a more balanced playing field. This step down in tires is pushing realism out the window and wasn't that part of the case for changing the tires?

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

While I did not race in December, I did do some driving with the newly assigned tires. I found that to be fast (mid division lap time), the tires had to be screaming most of the time. I wouldn't say anything was out of control or too difficult to control. I would say that more focus had to go to keeping the car in line as would be expected on lesser tires.

The one suggestion I would make would be to work on adjusting tire wear to a point where it's not like magic fairy dust where the tires can be abused and there are no consequences. You should not be able to have the tires scream at you in every corner, slide the car around and still have grip left at the end of a race. This is an opinion that I have long held even with the old tire model. The counter-argument has always been that controller users would be at a disadvantage if tire wear was implemented in this way. I understand that and have always been willing to suspend realism for a more balanced playing field. This step down in tires is pushing realism out the window and wasn't that part of the case for changing the tires?

For me, it feels like grip is more realistic compared to using higher grip tires. This also makes road cars handle more predictably due to the softer suspension. Increasing tire wear would take realism to a higher level.

Didn't we run with higher tire wear years ago? Maybe it was a different SNAIL series.

As it is, controller users can abuse driving dynamics to advantage, so increased tire wear would even things out. This has been a long standing debate.

 

[Worst_Driver]

While I did not race in December, I did do some driving with the newly assigned tires. I found that to be fast (mid division lap time), the tires had to be screaming most of the time. I wouldn't say anything was out of control or too difficult to control. I would say that more focus had to go to keeping the car in line as would be expected on lesser tires.

The one suggestion I would make would be to work on adjusting tire wear to a point where it's not like magic fairy dust where the tires can be abused and there are no consequences. You should not be able to have the tires scream at you in every corner, slide the car around and still have grip left at the end of a race. This is an opinion that I have long held even with the old tire model. The counter-argument has always been that controller users would be at a disadvantage if tire wear was implemented in this way. I understand that and have always been willing to suspend realism for a more balanced playing field. This step down in tires is pushing realism out the window and wasn't that part of the case for changing the tires?

You did not race in december and most of the year anyway.

As for controller users, @Kgffy seems to be doing just fine on a controller.

 

[JamCar0ne]

While I did not race in December, I did do some driving with the newly assigned tires. I found that to be fast (mid division lap time), the tires had to be screaming most of the time. I wouldn't say anything was out of control or too difficult to control. I would say that more focus had to go to keeping the car in line as would be expected on lesser tires.

The one suggestion I would make would be to work on adjusting tire wear to a point where it's not like magic fairy dust where the tires can be abused and there are no consequences. You should not be able to have the tires scream at you in every corner, slide the car around and still have grip left at the end of a race. This is an opinion that I have long held even with the old tire model. The counter-argument has always been that controller users would be at a disadvantage if tire wear was implemented in this way. I understand that and have always been willing to suspend realism for a more balanced playing field. This step down in tires is pushing realism out the window and wasn't that part of the case for changing the tires?

Tire wear is something I think they (PDI) has reduced over time. I recall some races in GT6 where tire wear came into play if you over drove the car in some situations, and I liked that aspect. When they introduced the variable tire wear in GTsport, 1x seemed a bit less but still comparable. But now, it seems even less. I'd have to check, but I think those boring sport races use 7-10x for tire wear. Should we be looking at 2-3x? Just a mild wear at end of race, a third to half worn, nothing too crazy.

Back in my controller days, it felt like the cars drove better after a couple of laps. Always thought the tires wore just enough to give a little more slip angle or whatever you call it. Turning at speed was always (and still is) the problem with controllers for me.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

One of the problems with setting a tire wear multiplier is each car will be different, forcing us to adjust that value every week and possibly or each combo. For a 16 minute race, tire wear would have to be set very high, x7-x15 or higher, to have any meaningful effect, which also kinda kills realism, since, I'm sure the represented tire grades don't get utterly unusable in 16 minutes. At present, setting a tire wear multiplier, for whatever reason, is mostly a non-starter.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Maybe we can run a few tests at 2×, 4x, 6x for roadcars on CS and SH, and gr3 on RH?

Maybe I'll go mess around right now while I'm waiting on my brisket.

 

[JamCar0ne]

One of the problems with setting a tire wear multiplier is each car will be different, forcing us to adjust that value every week and possibly or each combo. For a 16 minute race, tire wear would have to be set very high, x7-x15 or higher, to have any meaningful effect, which also kinda kills realism, since, I'm sure the represented tire grades don't get utterly unusable in 16 minutes. At present, setting a tire wear multiplier, for whatever reason, is mostly a non-starter.

Arguing wear is different for each car is the same as grip is different for each car, there will always be outliers. That is why 2-3x might be good. Not asking for crazy wear, just a little more than currently. Worse case would be having each class of compound (comfort, sport, racing) wear differently. For example, if half worn occurred with 8x for comfort, 7x for sport and 3x for racing, then choose the lowest of the three (3x) and go with that for all compounds for simplicity. I'm only suggesting half worn for the discussion.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

The gordini after 16.5 minutes of abuse, sliding around, at 6x. Not a big drop in performance.

Fairlady Z Version s 07 after 16.5 minutes of abuse at 6x. We know how much this car likes to slide around. Felt more dangerous last 4 laps or so, but still felt fast.

911 RSR 991 '17 after 17 minutes at 6x. Tire wear looks extreme, but the car is still very driveable, but slower. Much less sketchy on the last few laps than the Fairlady z was on it's best laps. Weird.

 

[bublyman]

I’m running with you since only 1 month so, I don’t think my opinion is so valuable. Personally, I don’t see any problems with the tires so far.

Tire wear is an aspect I like in a more long race (30min +) with some pit stops to play with strategy. But I don’t know if it’s pertinent to include it in a 16min race.

 

[Worst_Driver]

I’m running with you since only 1 month so, I don’t think my opinion is so valuable. Personally, I don’t see any problems with the tires so far.

Tire wear is an aspect I like in a more long race (30min +) with some pit stops to play with strategy. But I don’t know if it’s pertinent to include it in a 16min race.

As long as you participate, everyone's opinion is valuable.

I agree with you on tire wear, because we run sprint format 15 minute races, I don't see the point of adding tire wear as a variable in such short races without pit stops.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

As long as you participate, everyone's opinion is valuable.

I agree with you on tire wear, because we run sprint format 15 minute races, I don't see the point of adding tire wear as a variable in such short races without pit stops.

From what I can remember, tire wear had to be considered in the past during our short races. Drivers who abused tires would run maybe a second a lap slower for the last couple of laps allowing for some interesting finishes, and stress.

 

[Worst_Driver]

From what I can remember, tire wear had to be considered in the past during our short races. Drivers who abused tires would run maybe a second a lap slower for the last couple of laps allowing for some interesting finishes, and stress.

I've raced in 2012-2023 before taking a break and coming back to SNAIL in december 2021, it must have been during that period that I missed. I still prefer realistic tire wear considering the length of our races and the lack of pitstops and race strategy but I can see your point.

Wild wish, I'd like to see us trying racing in the rain or taking advantage of PD's beautiful time and weather system to have races with time progression but that's another debate.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I've raced in 2012-2023 before taking a break and coming back to SNAIL in december 2021, it must have been during that period that I missed. I still prefer realistic tire wear considering the length of our races and the lack of pitstops and race strategy but I can see your point.

Wild wish, I'd like to see us trying racing in the rain or taking advantage of PD's beautiful time and weather system to have races with time progression but that's another debate.

All great ideas for a new weekday SNAIL series . Maybe take one of the Sunday combos and run it 25 min with 6x tire and fuel, with rain and time progression. Then reverse grid.