So much details wasted..

[Dopplegagger]

rocketcaron I wouldnt expect much more graphically from fm4....with fm3 they already had to remove alot of the tyre smoke and dirt effects, and completely drop the brake dust and dirt build up on the cars to maintain the target frame rate. I think the x360 is prettymuch at the peak of what it can do with fm3

I whole heartedly disagree... Forza 3 was rushed to retail. The smoke and dirt effects were some of the casualities of Microsofts impatience, not a system limitation.

I am willing to bet that FM2 worked the 360 harder than FM3 did. And the graphics on FM2 are nowhere near as impressive as FM3. But when you look around in the both of the games, you can see where Turn 10 unessarilally used details in FM2 and on the same track in FM3, you can see how they used a more efficitent solution and got better results (most of the time). Plus with all of the known omissions in the game, like night time (Take a good look at the New York circut's lighting... Especially the bilboards) it's easy to see that FM3 had a bit more planned and in place at one point or another.

The smoke, after fire (or exhaust flames) and dirt effects were probably last on the list of finishing touches that will most likely be seen in FM4.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Sls, I was amazed by the detail they put in this car

I love this car.

These pictures were made with the worst Photomode settings.
I would like too say that i own both Gt5 and Forza 3. GT5 graphics might be better and more photorealistic, Forza is not far behind.
I will make a few an post em in a bit.

 

[deftonesmx17]

rocketcaron I wouldnt expect much more graphically from fm4....with fm3 they already had to remove alot of the tyre smoke and dirt effects, and completely drop the brake dust and dirt build up on the cars to maintain the target frame rate. I think the x360 is prettymuch at the peak of what it can do with fm3

I'd like to disagree as well for a couple of reasons.

First and foremost, FM3 is not the best looking racer on the 360. There are overall better looking ones such as GRID/DIRT series, F1 2010, Shift Series, and even Hot Pursuit.

Also, FM3's target frame rate was 60fps, which they achieved as the game hardly if ever dropped below that. Take for example GT5; they had a target frame rate of 60fps as well; what we all received was a game that fluctuates between 20-60fps, has screen-tearing, very badly aliased shadows and smoke effects, and has many GT4 ported cars/tracks.

 

[drivatar]

I whole heartedly disagree... Forza 3 was rushed to retail. The smoke and dirt effects were some of the casualities of Microsofts impatience, not a system limitation.

Transparency effects are very costly. If there's a lot of smoke in FM2 frame rate takes a hit. That's why FM3 is using less of these effects and GT5 renders them at a much smaller resolution (and even that doesn't stop frame rate from going down).

First and foremost, FM3 is not the best looking racer on the 360. There are overall better looking ones such as GRID/DIRT series, F1 2010, Shift Series, and even Hot Pursuit.

Also, FM3's target frame rate was 60fps, which they achieved as the game hardly if ever dropped below that. Take for example GT5; they had a target frame rate of 60fps as well; what we all received was a game that fluctuates between 20-60fps, has screen-tearing, very badly aliased shadows and smoke effects, and has many GT4 ported cars/tracks.

As you've said FM3 delivers nearly flawless 60fps 👍. This doesn't come without cost but it's worth it and I prefer frame rate to more effects and graphical detail .

But I will upload cockpits of cars you guys want, or atleast ill try.

Some love for older Ferraris like the 250GTO, P4, Dino, GTO or F355 ?

 

[Bonefork]

rocketcaron I wouldnt expect much more graphically from fm4....with fm3 they already had to remove alot of the tyre smoke and dirt effects, and completely drop the brake dust and dirt build up on the cars to maintain the target frame rate. I think the x360 is prettymuch at the peak of what it can do with fm3

Doesn't mean anything. Inefficient code will expense more resources than efficient code with added polygons and effects. Where there's humans involved, there's always room for improvement.

 

[James1436]

These pictures were made with the worst Photomode settings.
I would like too say that i own both Gt5 and Forza 3. GT5 graphics might be better and more photorealistic, Forza is not far behind.
I will make a few an post em in a bit.

My intentions on those photo's were not to be pretty, they were to show the detail. Like the ferrari one, you really can't see the dials on the dash.

 

[James1436]

3 more photo's
TT

Mercedes touring

Suburu s204

 

[-=DV=-]

The smoke and dirt effects were some of the casualities of Microsofts impatience, not a system limitation.

When everybody started asking for smoke and dust effects again in an update Turn10 themselves said while it was possible to implement in a patch, it would NOT happen as they had to drop them to make the frame rate *rolls eyes*

'Nuff said.

 

[rocketcaron]

Sorry DV but all these developpers quotes need to be referenced to be taken seriously. Not that I don't beleive in what you state but there are too many trolls in here.

👍

 

[JJ72]

what's with the odd brightness and contrast settings? It doesn't make the game justice.

 

[-=DV=-]

fair call rocket...we are talking like 18 months ago so feel free to search the fm3 message boards ect...I really dont have the time to search for it.

Edit

while they are not direct quotes. here are a couple of links where people have said the same as I have.

http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/forza-motorsport-3/31961-tire-smoke-forza-3-a.html


EDIT AGAIN

In this thread, T10 employee amd community manager Landin says "The problem with generating too much smoke is the impact is has on framerate. When you add multiple cars into the equation things get tricky as they all have the potential to generate the same amount of smoke. If they all produced huge clouds at the same time the framerate would drop drastically.

It's a very fine balance needed to make sure we maintain 60fps at all times."

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/ShowThread.aspx?PostID=2618823

Straight from the horses mouth

 

[Dopplegagger]

^ I see...

Darn my ignorance and optimism for that.

 

[-=DV=-]

I know, It pains me to say, As I have always preferred the forza series over GT. It is a shame that T10 are so limited by the hardware. Perhaps it would be possible if they rewrote the graphics engine from the ground up and used a newer, more efficient lighting engine. But to be honest, For a game with an 18 month production cycle, Thats really not that likely. We will most likely see a modified version of the current engines in use (which usually leads to them being less efficient and more resource costly) But heres hoping. As I personally want FM4 to be the ultimate console racer.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I know, It pains me to say, As I have always preferred the forza series over GT. It is a shame that T10 are so limited by the hardware.

Too much effects density and/or fidelity (things like smoke, dirt, and clouds) in any game, even on a beefy modern PC GPU will drastically drop the framerate. I can easily give you examples of games which will see the framerate cut in half during heavy effects. BF Bad Company 2 for example can bring a 5870 to its knees if too many explosions (causing multiple smoke effects) are happening on high settings.

Turn10's choice was a smart one as a consistent framerate is very important for racing games. I'd take smooth motion over smoke effects any day of the week.

 

[rocketcaron]

Thank you DV, I appreciate that! Documented proof is taking this discussion to a new level.👍

I wonder if they could still go a little further with graphic quality(if they don't overuse these smoke and dust effects anyway!

Especially lighting!!!

 

[James1436]

Thank you DV, I appreciate that! Documented proof is taking this discussion to a new level.👍

I wonder if they could still go a little further with graphic quality(if they don't overuse these smoke and dust effects anyway!

Especially lighting!!!

Yeah, I think the game would look 2X better if they got the lighting correct.

 

[Claybird]

My god, it looks awful!

 

[VXR]

First and foremost, FM3 is not the best looking racer on the 360. There are overall better looking ones such as GRID/DIRT series, F1 2010, Shift Series, and even Hot Pursuit.

I can't agree with you about FM3 looking worse than HP or especially Shift 2, which is dreadful. Don't forget that FM3's uploads are heavily compressed and therefore lose quality that only flickr can consistently regain at a reduced size. HP looks good at times, but can easily delve into the realms of jaggies, poor focus or dodgy shadows. S2U's uploads are broken and I imagine the reason why they weren't changed from S1 is because it hides the deficiencies pretty well.

 

[GTRL_Junior]

T10 knows how to push forward even though i still think they made a wrong choice when choosing what would work and not work on FZ3 cause in my opinion FZ2 had a lot of good stuff and they removed cause we the fans or the majority wanted it gone or changed. Now being limited by hardware i would like to disagree. They habent even got close to pushing yet now if they are being limited by its Engine, then yes i must agree. I agree making a game run at 60fps is no easy task but then again, making a new engine would probably fix and make it easier for them maybe not running at 60fps but at least getting close to it. GT5 does a good job and yes we get some slow downs here and there but not by much at all. So the question we need to ask ourselves is this, do we want better graphics or do we want a solid frame rate with maybe a better graphic?

For me i would habe them take their time, come out with a better graphic engine or maybe an entire new one and then showcase it, i would be blown away if they did come out. Now that GT5 is out, they can take their time and make FZ4 what they or we always wanted from the start, a real racing game. They already got us as die hard fans of the series, now show us what you can do, T10.

 

[-=DV=-]

Too much effects density and/or fidelity (things like smoke, dirt, and clouds) in any game, even on a beefy modern PC GPU will drastically drop the framerate. I can easily give you examples of games which will see the framerate cut in half during heavy effects. BF Bad Company 2 for example can bring a 5870 to its knees if too many explosions (causing multiple smoke effects) are happening on high settings.

Turn10's choice was a smart one as a consistent framerate is very important for racing games. I'd take smooth motion over smoke effects any day of the week.

Im not saying otherwise OR criticising them for it. I am in 100% agreeance with you to be honest. It is the best decision they could have made. Im just bummed that they are so limited by an ageing system that microsoft seems to refuse to beef up. Im also incredibly impressed that they have managed to double the cars on screen without taking frame rate hit (Im assuming they havnt sacrificed the frame rate because in the past they have been so fanatic about running a stable 60 fps). The new lighting engine for fm4 looks much better and I would say its also a hell of alot more efficient. Who knows, Maybe they will now have the room they need to lift particle effects a touch again.

Heres hoping.

 

[FieroBoy95]

Hey james , are you able to show us some pontiacs or muscle cars , thanks!

 

[James1436]

No more night time lighting effects

 

[Seahawks1Fan]

I would really like some interior shots of the Buick GNX. Thanks!

 

[STICH666]

Yeah please do the GNX. I'm really curious to see which number car they modeled.

 

[James1436]

The turbo gauges work

 

[GTRL_Junior]

The only thing that i want to see fixed is the color system. You can the detail above are amazing but the colors arent that great. It looks too cartoonish at times.

 

[James1436]

The only thing that i want to see fixed is the color system. You can the detail above are amazing but the colors arent that great. It looks too cartoonish at times.

I agree,in the Forza 4 trailer, it seemed like they corrected it.

 

[Dopplegagger]

Can you post some shots of the Alpha Romeo GTA?

 

[kimi123]

They have great photomode but in car models are very low. In game graphics are weak, in photo mode it looks like a different game. Same thing seems to be with Forza4 showing great detail on trailer but in game graphics will be little improvement from Forza3?

 

[Bogie 19th]

That is how all console racers are. It's a limitation of the consoles.