[solved] The world physics and tyre physics need "tuning"

[NLxAROSA]

FWD Touring cars are known for being very tail happy, its effectively engineered into the regulations. The Clio add a much shorter wheel base (in comparison to BTCC/WTCC/TCC spec cars) to that, which is going to make that even more pronounced.

Which, once again, is reflected in PC2: the Mégane for instance shows the same behavior, but much less aggressive than the Clio.

 

[Scaff]

Review of the real car:

"Up your speed and the Clio's strengths come into focus: the turbo engine is flexible, but never feels like it runs out of puff too soon; the gearchanges are quick and punchy, so you always feel it when a gear fires home (you don't always notice on the dual-clutch road car) and the chassis is very, very dynamic. It does, however, require quite a delicate touch. Get on the power too early and you'll get determined understeer. Instead you need to carry your speed into the corner on the brakes, bleeding off the pressure as you turn into the apex. There's no servo and no ABS, though – the high grip from the slick tyres means the lack of ABS isn't a problem, but the lack of a servo means you really have to stand on the pedal to get decent retardation, and you'll need to pull that left-hand paddle for some engine braking too. Get that right and you'll slightly destabilize the rear of the car on corner-entry, tucking the nose into the apex. It's a hugely satisfying feeling. Then it's a case of feeding the power back in and feeling the front tyres just slipping slightly as they reach the limit of adhesion.

It took me a while to work out why I was struggling with the long, decreasing radius corner at the end of the Stowe circuit, then I realised it was all down to the Clio's super-aggressive diff: get on the power and it pulls you into the corner, much like the Mk1 Focus RS would, so you can apply less steering lock than you first thought necessary and let the diff do some of the steering for you."

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/renault/renault-clio-cup-racing-car-2013-review/

To which the following point from the Jr. Clio Cup series adds context:

"Apart from being cheaper, the Sport 3 road tyres are theoretically safer, with lower cornering speeds than the big-boy Clio Cup.

Treaded tyres also slip into understeer and oversteer more gradually than snappy slicks, and avoid the dreaded cold-rear-tyre accidents that affect many front-wheel-drive racing cars, which heat their front slicks quickly while the rears stay cold."

and

"Key is to brake late, let the rear end get a bit light and use that floatiness to rotate the Clio into a deliberately slightly late apex, then get on the power and unwind the steering lock early as you power out of the corner. More easily said than done…"

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/renault/renault-clio-cup-junior-2017-review/

 

[rono_thomas]

Review of the real car:

"Up your speed and the Clio's strengths come into focus: the turbo engine is flexible, but never feels like it runs out of puff too soon; the gearchanges are quick and punchy, so you always feel it when a gear fires home (you don't always notice on the dual-clutch road car) and the chassis is very, very dynamic. It does, however, require quite a delicate touch. Get on the power too early and you'll get determined understeer. Instead you need to carry your speed into the corner on the brakes, bleeding off the pressure as you turn into the apex. There's no servo and no ABS, though – the high grip from the slick tyres means the lack of ABS isn't a problem, but the lack of a servo means you really have to stand on the pedal to get decent retardation, and you'll need to pull that left-hand paddle for some engine braking too. Get that right and you'll slightly destabilize the rear of the car on corner-entry, tucking the nose into the apex. It's a hugely satisfying feeling. Then it's a case of feeding the power back in and feeling the front tyres just slipping slightly as they reach the limit of adhesion.

It took me a while to work out why I was struggling with the long, decreasing radius corner at the end of the Stowe circuit, then I realised it was all down to the Clio's super-aggressive diff: get on the power and it pulls you into the corner, much like the Mk1 Focus RS would, so you can apply less steering lock than you first thought necessary and let the diff do some of the steering for you."

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/renault/renault-clio-cup-racing-car-2013-review/

To which the following point from the Jr. Clio Cup series adds context:

"Apart from being cheaper, the Sport 3 road tyres are theoretically safer, with lower cornering speeds than the big-boy Clio Cup.

Treaded tyres also slip into understeer and oversteer more gradually than snappy slicks, and avoid the dreaded cold-rear-tyre accidents that affect many front-wheel-drive racing cars, which heat their front slicks quickly while the rears stay cold."

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/renault/renault-clio-cup-junior-2017-review/

Exactly how it performs in PC2. Impressive how accurate it actually is.

 

[danardif1]

Whilst not with this same car, I encountered similar 'problems' when getting into a touring car race online at Silverstone over the weekend. I was having issues with lift-off oversteer and everything mentioned here with the TCR Astra in practice/qualifying, until I started to get my head around how a front-wheel drive racing car needs to be driven. Made a few minor adjustments to the setup just where I felt I needed it, and bang, put it on pole and won the 10 lap race by 20 seconds. The car felt great when I knew what I was meant to be doing with it, and whilst I still had the odd moment the rear came loose on me in the Maggotts/Becketts section, I was prepared for it because I knew that it would come from the type of corner entry I was doing, and with minor steering adjustments would keep it on the road with no issue.

You have to remember that these FWD touring cars are suspended very differently to road cars. The front end is setup to allow a lot of pitch and roll, with the rear end effectively relegated to just being there to hold the car up. Those rear tyres don't really do much and you learn to drive around their limitations.

 

[OdeFinn]

And? No one is saying otherwise and PC2 isn't demonstrating power-on oversteer with the Clio or TC's, as such why that needs to be pointed out is beyond me.

OP video doesn't show spinning due braking, but real-life videos are only showing spins due brake usage.
Real-life car isn't unstable during cornering with throttle modulation as game car is.
Real-life drivers telling car to be prone understeer, and getting rear slightly lightened with entry brake is a job to do, not a thing where you need to be extra careful (the high grip from the slick tyres means the lack of ABS isn't a problem, but the lack of a servo means you really have to stand on the pedal to get decent retardation, and you'll need to pull that left-hand paddle for some engine braking too. Get that right and you'll slightly destabilize the rear of the car on corner-entry, tucking the nose into the apex. It's a hugely satisfying feeling. Then it's a case of feeding the power back in and feeling the front tyres just slipping slightly as they reach the limit of adhesion.).

So have I and I disagree.

We have both right for it.

However please explain why you think (referencing real world physics) that PC2's behavior is so wrong.

Something isn't righ

May be on setup also, car just isn't behaving same in game as on real-life.

 

[Scaff]

OP video doesn't show spinning due braking, but real-life videos are only showing spins due brake usage.

They are both the result of forward load transfer, which can either be caused by braking or throttle lift.

Real-life car isn't unstable during cornering with throttle modulation as game car is.

Sorry but are you claiming that FWD touring cars do not suffer from lift off oversteer?

What exactly do you think the end result of this "avoid the dreaded cold-rear-tyre accidents that affect many front-wheel-drive racing cars, which heat their front slicks quickly while the rears stay cold." would be?

However I'm more than happy for you to explain exactly why this can't occur in the real life cars.

Real-life drivers telling car to be prone understeer, and getting rear slightly lightened with entry brake is a job to do, not a thing where you need to be extra careful (the high grip from the slick tyres means the lack of ABS isn't a problem, but the lack of a servo means you really have to stand on the pedal to get decent retardation, and you'll need to pull that left-hand paddle for some engine braking too. Get that right and you'll slightly destabilize the rear of the car on corner-entry, tucking the nose into the apex. It's a hugely satisfying feeling. Then it's a case of feeding the power back in and feeling the front tyres just slipping slightly as they reach the limit of adhesion.).

Did you forget that also said was " It does, however, require quite a delicate touch" and what do you think the results of getting it wrong in this case "Get that right and you'll slightly destabilize the rear of the car on corner-entry, tucking the nose into the apex" would be?

As if you get it right (late brake, slightly late apex, use the throttle and diff to drag it around the corner) it works in PC2 as well. Get it wrong by getting your braking and load transfer wrong (too abrupt and/or not trailed)and the rear will come out rapidly; get it wrong by getting the power on too early and it will understeer (and if you lift to try and correct the back will come out again).

You know as they describe for the Clio

"Key is to brake late, let the rear end get a bit light and use that floatiness to rotate the Clio into a deliberately slightly late apex, then get on the power and unwind the steering lock early as you power out of the corner. More easily said than done…"

Oh and don't quote mine, as "and getting rear slightly lightened with entry brake is a job to do," is not what was said at all. Have you ever driven a car without a brake servo? you have to stand on the damn thing just to get any form of braking, that it what is being stated, not that you need to stand on the brakes to get a slight degree of instability!

May be on setup also, car just isn't behaving same in game as on real-life.

Doesn't answer the question at all.

I asked you to explain why PC2's behavior is wrong in terms of real world physics.

 

[rono_thomas]

OP video doesn't show spinning due braking, but real-life videos are only showing spins due brake usage.

It does at 3:40 is one example. The op video is not the best example of how to drive that car. See my video to see what’s possible.

Real-life car isn't unstable during cornering with throttle modulation as game car is.

I can assure the game car is perfectly stable through throttle modulation.

Real-life drivers telling car to be prone understeer, and getting rear slightly lightened with entry brake is a job to do, not a thing where you need to be extra careful (the high grip from the slick tyres means the lack of ABS isn't a problem, but the lack of a servo means you really have to stand on the pedal to get decent retardation, and you'll need to pull that left-hand paddle for some engine braking too. Get that right and you'll slightly destabilize the rear of the car on corner-entry, tucking the nose into the apex. It's a hugely satisfying feeling. Then it's a case of feeding the power back in and feeling the front tyres just slipping slightly as they reach the limit of adhesion.).

Think you’ve misread this statement getting it right is a job to do, getting it wrong is quite easy, again demonstrated by the OP video.

 

[Symtex]

No. Especially when you say this after several videos of real world Clios spinning out and in game ones being driven relatively smoothly. And vice versa. Judging by comparing what is shown in the videos, it seems about as close as one is going to get out of a game.

On the other hand, those complaining about it are showing a remarkable misunderstanding of the car, what it can and should do, and driving dynamics in general. It seems difficult to accept someone's subjective assertion that the physics are "wrong" when they don't actually understand what "right" should look like.

I think it's pointless at this time to continue this argument. The OP has no intention to change his mind even thought evidence was shown that he is 100% wrong. There is only one thing left to say to the OP : Git Gud son !

 

[NLxAROSA]

I think it's pointless at this time to continue this argument. The OP has no intention to change his mind even thought evidence was shown that he is 100% wrong. There is only one thing left to say to the OP : Git Gud son !

In all fairness that wasn't in response to the OP (who's been rather quiet). Still, the 'git gud' argument holds. I like how this thread went from: 'Physics broken, yo!' to 'This is a pretty damn accurate representation of FWD touring cars'.

This thread is one for the bookmarks: some really good info and vids in here, good for future reference for when the question/claim pops up again (and it will no doubt). Thread title could do with an update though.

 

[rono_thomas]

Last one from me on the subject 5 lap online race at zolder in the Megane, brilliant combo. Noteable highlights turn 1 and the second chicane.

 

[mattikake]

I think it's pointless at this time to continue this argument. The OP has no intention to change his mind even thought evidence was shown that he is 100% wrong. There is only one thing left to say to the OP : Git Gud son !

Who said I have no intention of changing my mind? I think you've been using forums too long...

I'm reading and learning mostly to see if I have been driving these all wrong. Been trying the Clio seeing as that is what this thread had largely changed over to. But as I said before, the issue seems to be steering sensitivity/input. If I drive with seemingly abnormally small inputs it's nowhere near as erratic. But the steering sensitivity is set to 50 which is supposed to be 1:1, yes? And my steering ratios are mostly default - about 12-14.0:1.

If I turn very slightly it doesn't oversteer much at all and if it doesn't you find you have loads of road still to use on the exits. If you try to take speed so that you are aiming to use more of the road and you get a twitch of oversteer you're off the circuit. Or if you carry too much speed it understeers hugely on the exits which means you're off the track again if you lift and get oversteer or if off the circuit if you try to use more steering input to get the diff to "drag the car round the corner" because that doesn't happen.

I guess that's a matter of learning the car and judging the speed right in the first place.

It's mentally oversteery on the brakes. I've shifted the bias about 60% forward and have been changing the ride height, bump, rebound, diff etc. to make it almost as understeery as possible. It still has a massive tendency to oversteer on brakes. I have to brake before corners. The slightest touch into corners and it wants to whip right round. Even light braking before Paddock Hill in a straight line, the surface camber sends it into massive oversteer. No idea on a competitive time but most corners that I round cleanly there is no tyre squeal so presumably it's not near the limit (atm I have a separate issue with my G29 which means I get no FFB for the front tyres in any car. There's a separate thread for that.). 30 mins in the Clio I've got to 1:38s so far... when my lap isn't deleted for going inside a corner!

All in all the tyre model seems very funky compared to PC1. PC1 I could set many times below the very fastest times on the PC steam DB http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/ but those were all in open wheelers. I had never used any FF car in PC1.

I do have one question to all though. Who is doing this on PS4 and who is on PC? I'm still not at all convinced the steering is correct on my wheel.

 

[rono_thomas]

I have to brake before corners.

Yes, yes! Breaking done before the corner, it wont matter if your too hot for the corner, thats the next part below, but off the breaks for turn in.

twitch of oversteer you're off the circuit.

Expect it. Its coming you want it. For more control during initial turn in pick up a tiny amount of throttle, if the back end begins to violently swing jam the throttle till it stops, and countersteer if needed, if that means your then understeering back off the throttle until your not then jam the throttle again. When backing off try to be smooth, when jamming on be rough. Dont use breaks.

Likewise if the back end is slipping slowly on turn in either guess the amount needed, or until you can judge it jam it to stop it and then off again, and then on when you spot your exit.

Dont use breaks.

More controlled oversteer on turn in = less understeer on the way out.

PS4 by the way. T150.

 

[Scaff]

I'm reading and learning mostly to see if I have been driving these all wrong. Been trying the Clio seeing as that is what this thread had largely changed over to. But as I said before, the issue seems to be steering sensitivity/input. If I drive with seemingly abnormally small inputs it's nowhere near as erratic. But the steering sensitivity is set to 50 which is supposed to be 1:1, yes? And my steering ratios are mostly default - about 12-14.0:1.

Take a read of the review of the Clio Cup car I posted, the real world one will do it as well, it's the diff.

I do have one question to all though. Who is doing this on PS4 and who is on PC? I'm still not at all convinced the steering is correct on my wheel.

I'm on PS4 and a T300 wheel (full rig in my signature).

 

[NLxAROSA]

Who said I have no intention of changing my mind? I think you've been using forums too long...

Well, you did start off pretty harsh at the start of this thread (and a few others). You claimed physics were broken and these care are unplayable. If you come in that hard with no solid foundation people will respond accordingly (a.k.a. roast your butt ). If you would have opened differently I'm sure the responses would have been less harsh as well. 👍

I'm reading and learning mostly to see if I have been driving these all wrong.

I think most of us have struggled with these at some point (I know I have). I would suggest starting with the out-of-the-box setups when learning a new car. Don't start diving into setups while you don't know the car yet. No amount of tuning will compensate for not knowing the car. For instance I did my 1:32.288 with the 'stable' setup, I did not tune it myself.

I do have one question to all though. Who is doing this on PS4 and who is on PC? I'm still not at all convinced the steering is correct on my wheel.

I'm on PC, with G27. If you suspect your steering is not 1:1 that should be fairly easy to verify, even without driving at all.

 

[paulpg87]

Tried the car outside career mode in Summer and is not that bad After you get used to It. The problem looks like AI is not driving the same car...

 

[mattikake]

Yes, yes! Breaking done before the corner, it wont matter if your too hot for the corner, thats the next part below, but off the breaks for turn in.

Expect it. Its coming you want it. For more control during initial turn in pick up a tiny amount of throttle, if the back end begins to violently swing jam the throttle till it stops, and countersteer if needed, if that means your then understeering back off the throttle until your not then jam the throttle again. When backing off try to be smooth, when jamming on be rough. Dont use breaks..

Yes thanks. This is exactly what I've learned I have to do by myself earlier today. Oh and not to go in too fast in as it has a natural urge to oversteer on entry if too much steering is input for the speed, not understeer like other FWD cars would, even many 4WD and RWD cars would too... I've had to almost lock off the diff completely on coast to try and dial out some of that oversteer. Spotting the understeer has to be visual though due to my FFB problems which automatically makes my reactions slower and makes this tricky car even more tricky.

PC2 is just not working for me atm.

Well, you did start off pretty harsh at the start of this thread (and a few others). You claimed physics were broken and these care are unplayable. If you come in that hard with no solid foundation people will respond accordingly (a.k.a. roast your butt ). If you would have opened differently I'm sure the responses would have been less harsh as well. 👍

Maybe, but given the numerous issues with PC2 I was already expecting fault. I thought it was me in the touring car, then I had a look at everyone else in the same online session that they were struggling just as much. Followed by a chance race with a guy I know who was competitive in the open wheeler leagues, who also thought something was up. Couldn't help but expect the worst. So I can say, SMS brought that feeling on themselves. A contrived get-out but it works for me!

Even so, I'm still not completely convinced. Re: reported steering issues and no FFB for the fronts for me. These definitely make things harder than they should be. Curing understeer early would be easy if I could actually feel the fronts start to wash out as I could in PC1.

My mistake was thinking this is a little 200bhp FWD car, a format that nearly every average Joe would probably be familiar with - it must be a beginners car. It is not. Then again the Formula "Rookie" in PC1 was also not a beginners car in terms of easy handling either...

 

[Scaff]

Yes thanks. This is exactly what I've learned I have to do by myself earlier today. Oh and not to go in too fast in as it has a natural urge to oversteer on entry if too much steering is input for the speed, not understeer like other FWD cars would, even many 4WD and RWD cars would too... I've had to almost lock off the diff completely on coast to try and dial out some of that oversteer. Spotting the understeer has to be visual though due to my FFB problems which automatically makes my reactions slower and makes this tricky car even more tricky.

PC2 is just not working for me atm.



Maybe, but given the numerous issues with PC2 I was already expecting fault. I thought it was me in the touring car, then I had a look at everyone else in the same online session that they were struggling just as much. Followed by a chance race with a guy I know who was competitive in the open wheeler leagues, who also thought something was up. Couldn't help but expect the worst. So I can say, SMS brought that feeling on themselves. A contrived get-out but it works for me!

Even so, I'm still not completely convinced. Re: reported steering issues and no FFB for the fronts for me. These definitely make things harder than they should be. Curing understeer early would be easy if I could actually feel the fronts start to wash out as I could in PC1.

My mistake was thinking this is a little 200bhp FWD car, a format that nearly every average Joe would probably be familiar with - it must be a beginners car. It is not. Then again the Formula "Rookie" in PC1 was also not a beginners car in terms of easy handling either...

A lot of feeder class cars are deliberately tricky to master, but do so at lower speeds.

It's better to learn to deal with it in those conditions and speeds than first face it when you get to faster classes.

 

[rono_thomas]

Oh and not to go in too fast in as it has a natural urge to oversteer on entry if too much steering is input for the speed, not understeer like other FWD cars would,

You’ve got to forget what you think you know.



Keep in mind he’s in a road car.

 

[mattikake]

I'm very familiar with normal FWD handling and lift-ff oversteer. My daily driver for the last 13 years is a 280-400bhp (depending on my mood) FWD car with 66% of the weight over the front and it's been round Donington and the pod a few times.

I'm not talking about lift-off oversteer, I'm talking 50-100% power oversteer on the way in and significantly more if you put too much steering input in. It doesn't do it if you put in less steering input. It's... weird. Nothing at all like the 7 150bhp+ FWD cars I've owned.

 

[Scaff]

I'm very familiar with normal FWD handling and lift-ff oversteer. My daily driver for the last 13 years is a 280-400bhp (depending on my mood) FWD car with 66% of the weight over the front and it's been round Donington and the pod a few times.

I'm not talking about lift-off oversteer, I'm talking 50-100% power oversteer on the way in and significantly more if you put too much steering input in. It doesn't do it if you put in less steering input. It's... weird. Nothing at all like the 7 150bhp+ FWD cars I've owned.

Some road cars with similar traits do exist, but they are few (Mk 1 Focus RS, R27 Megane and DC2 and DC5 spring to mind) and still no where near as aggressive diff wise.

 

[F Inferno]

Nothing I've read in here sounds wrong for an FF race car, they are very very different beasts to anything else but once you realise to just embrace the oversteer and actively make the backend kick out for sharper cornering they are amazing fun.

You basically just dive bomb corners and half drift around them, taking them normally will just kill your speed with servere understeer, it's all about attacking.

I haven't tried them in PCars 2 yet but I'm surprised nobody has commented on the WTCC cars in RRRE which are brilliant and great for a comparison.

 

[mattikake]

I found a diff setting that has transformed the car. I can brake about 50m later into Paddock without being killed. New limits to be found with this setup, so I could probably get a good second or so off with some more tweaking, low fuel etc. It's nowhere near as twitchy on the way in but I still have to be careful with the steering. I'm no faster in race conditions - still doing mid 1:38s, although consistently now because I can hustle the car instead of just try to hang on to it.

I believe the TT WR is 1:36.3 atm and in PC1 I was never 2 secs off WR pace in any car I took the time to learn - but the car is so much more stable and dare I say, handling much more like a normal FWD car. It's actually fun to drive! I did a 12 lap race against the AI on about 80% to test what it was like being forced to change lines etc. starting from the back and won by a mile.

Exit kerbs and grass are still seriously deadly, however.

So thanks for the input, even though I kind of found my own way in the end, but you gave me the belief to keep trying in that perhaps the game isn't malfunctioning in this respect. I can imagine all the other people I've seen struggle with this car still think something is wrong which I expect to be as much a shame for their experience as it was for me. I also did an extensive search on YT for others trying this car on this track and of about 10 vids, only a WR lap was one that didn't appear to be a huge struggle.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I found a diff setting that has transformed the car. I can brake about 50m later into Paddock without being killed. New limits to be found with this setup, so I could probably get a good second or so off with some more tweaking, low fuel etc. It's nowhere near as twitchy on the way in but I still have to be careful with the steering. I'm no faster in race conditions - still doing mid 1:38s, although consistently now because I can hustle the car instead of just try to hang on to it.

I believe the TT WR is 1:36.3 atm and in PC1 I was never 2 secs off WR pace in any car I took the time to learn - but the car is so much more stable and dare I say, handling much more like a normal FWD car. It's actually fun to drive! I did a 12 lap race against the AI on about 80% to test what it was like being forced to change lines etc. starting from the back and won by a mile.

Exit kerbs and grass are still seriously deadly, however.

So thanks for the input, even though I kind of found my own way in the end, but you gave me the belief to keep trying in that perhaps the game isn't malfunctioning in this respect. I can imagine all the other people I've seen struggle with this car still think something is wrong which I expect to be as much a shame for their experience as it was for me. I also did an extensive search on YT for others trying this car on this track and of about 10 vids, only a WR lap was one that didn't appear to be a huge struggle.

So you found your own way eh? Too bad no one brought up the differential before....errr...

The reason the rear lifts and it tripods is down to the far softer front set-up and firmer rear, the grip is being generated at the front of the car and the very aggressive diff allows you to drag it around.

The diff will get you through the corner and drag the rear along in a stable manner, this also help get heat into the rear.

That aside you seem to have missed the video above with a Clio Cup driver explaining that the diff requires this to extract the maximum out of the car (or cars of this set-up), the basic point are perfectly valid and how the cars are driven in the real world.

It took me a while to work out why I was struggling with the long, decreasing radius corner at the end of the Stowe circuit, then I realised it was all down to the Clio's super-aggressive diff: get on the power and it pulls you into the corner, much like the Mk1 Focus RS would, so you can apply less steering lock than you first thought necessary and let the diff do some of the steering for you."

 

[xtro01]

But as I said before, the issue seems to be steering sensitivity/input. If I drive with seemingly abnormally small inputs it's nowhere near as erratic. But the steering sensitivity is set to 50 which is supposed to be 1:1, yes? And my steering ratios are mostly default - about 12-14.0:1.

I'm on ps4 and I have been scratching my head over the most realistic FFB / sensitivity settings... first of all i'm not sure why the game forces my wheel at 900 when 1080 seems to give better FFB sensation but on the topic of sensitivity the default are really wrong, too strong and elastic and way too twitchy... i'm not gonna talk about ffb here, there are plenty of other threads for that.

What I would say though is try putting your Controller (wheel) "Speed Sensitivity" at 50 then lower slowly down to 20-25 and adjust your FFB from there... this will resolve the twitchy-ness and give you a much more realistic and planted steering sensation.

Steering Sensitivity should remain at 50 if you change that you will see your virtual wheel out of sync with your real one.

Also the clutch simulation is problematic currently and it will likely make you spin out if you try to use it... not progressive enough or something. If you use auto clutch it will avoid some spins but it is way too slow especially on the starting grid. I'd recommend leaving auto clutch OFF but use clutchless shifting (after first gear).. not ideal but greatly helps control.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

I think the Ginetta G40 and G40 Junior are like the Clio in that treaded tires probably work better. Maybe treaded on the front and slicks on the rear?

 

[NLxAROSA]

Some road cars with similar traits do exist, but they are few (Mk 1 Focus RS, R27 Megane and DC2 and DC5 spring to mind) and still no where near as aggressive diff wise.

The LSD on the Mégane RS 250 Cup I owned was also pulling into the corner, though not as aggressive as the touring cars ingame (and with good reason I guess ). It just didn't understeer unless you really overdid it. Floor it into a corner and at the exact moment you expect understeer it simply pulls into the corner.

Nothing at all like the 7 150bhp+ FWD cars I've owned.

I've owned plenty as well, but none compare to the RS I owned (see link). My current Mégane GT (220HP on the front wheels, no LSD) understeers, the RS just didn't do that unless your really overdid it. No other FWD I owned behaved like that.

 

[Imari]

I'm not talking about lift-off oversteer, I'm talking 50-100% power oversteer on the way in and significantly more if you put too much steering input in.

So you're getting oversteer going into corners, but it's not lift-off oversteer, it's power oversteer? Going into the corners?

I think I've spotted the flaw in your driving technique...

 

[mattikake]

So you're getting oversteer going into corners, but it's not lift-off oversteer, it's power oversteer? Going into the corners?

I think I've spotted the flaw in your driving technique...

Maybe I'm not explaining it very well but no, it's an issue with the steering. Depending on the corner, I'm on 10-75% throttle pretty much as soon as I've finished braking to eliminate lift-off oversteer as much as possible. Given I can't trail brake this car at all, I'm braking before the corner and using throttle into it, yes. So a lot of the time this is very early into the corner. Much earlier than many rwd cars (forgetting the corner starts as soon as you brake, not when the circuit turns). Also during the corner on 25-100% power if you steer a bit too much you will get overseer.

 

[mattikake]

So you found your own way eh? Too bad no one brought up the differential before....errr...

Sorry!

Well while you mention the diff is extreme you don't say what to set it to. I've had to do that myself (and change bump and rebound dampers a lot to compliment). Many more tweaks to come as well but I'll probably save that for a session where I have to compete harder. Generally with this car I'm done, at least at brands.

In fact weren't you saying leave the setup alone until you learn the car? Or was that someone else?

In life if i identify something as unacceptable I look to change it immediately. I generally leave it to the drones to try living with it.

 

[NLxAROSA]

In fact weren't you saying leave the setup alone until you learn the car? Or was that someone else?

Nope, that was me.

In life if i identify something as unacceptable I look to change it immediately. I generally leave it to the drones to try living with it.

In this case the unacceptable part was your own driving and attitude, not the car. Not sure how you think you can change those by tuning the car; it's not the car that needed fixing. You still don't get it do you?

And if being a drone makes me 6-8 seconds faster per lap, then I'll gladly be a drone. But the attitude man, the attitude...