Sound design improvement in Forza 6?

[Speedster911]

I

the details are insignificant enough to the point a judgment can be made on whether the audio is good or not through watching a YouTube video. If a car sound bad on YouTube, it sounds bad in game.

I would quite humbly have to disagree. Relying on my ears alone and nothing else, games on my audio system sound significantly better and more detailed.

Cheers.

 

[Krakenous]

I too can +1 about it sounding better actually "In game" or shall we say, being actually present in the glory of said vehicle, but that's another topic.

Speaking of AWESOME sound, exhaust burble, tranny flutter and off load and on load awesomeness, check out the 2017 Ford GT Race Car in this 90 seconds of eargasm!



It would be awesome if FM6, seeing as it features this car as it's star, was also to go and actually record this race variant of it, simply STUNNING sound...and from a 3.5L EcoBoost engine of all things lol, although to be accurate, a lot of the audio we hear is from the exhaust system.

ONCE AGAIN, EXHAUST SYSTEM AUDIO DAMMIT do it right FFS games xD! Ahhh...one day we can dream...surely, one day it'll be reality, well, game reality lol.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I too can +1 about it sounding better actually "In game" or shall we say, being actually present in the glory of said vehicle, but that's another topic.

Speaking of AWESOME sound, exhaust burble, tranny flutter and off load and on load awesomeness, check out the 2017 Ford GT Race Car in this 90 seconds of eargasm!



It would be awesome if FM6, seeing as it features this car as it's star, was also to go and actually record this race variant of it, simply STUNNING sound...and from a 3.5L EcoBoost engine of all things lol, although to be accurate, a lot of the audio we hear is from the exhaust system.

ONCE AGAIN, EXHAUST SYSTEM AUDIO DAMMIT do it right FFS games xD! Ahhh...one day we can dream...surely, one day it'll be reality, well, game reality lol.

Having heard the road version in gameplay, I would say not to expect something with quite the bark of the real thing.

 

[Speedster911]

I too can +1 about it sounding better actually "In game" or shall we say, being actually present in the glory of said vehicle, but that's another topic.

Speaking of AWESOME sound, exhaust burble, tranny flutter and off load and on load awesomeness, check out the 2017 Ford GT Race Car in this 90 seconds of eargasm!



It would be awesome if FM6, seeing as it features this car as it's star, was also to go and actually record this race variant of it, simply STUNNING sound...and from a 3.5L EcoBoost engine of all things lol, although to be accurate, a lot of the audio we hear is from the exhaust system.

ONCE AGAIN, EXHAUST SYSTEM AUDIO DAMMIT do it right FFS games xD! Ahhh...one day we can dream...surely, one day it'll be reality, well, game reality lol.

Oh.. my ... Lord! Eargasmic is right!

Even though Forza is the best sounding thing on the X1 console, I honestly doubt it.. as sad as it is to admit.. we may not get to hear this kind of audio detail for at least another 2 or 3 FM games. Maybe on the X2 or something.

Having heard the road version in gameplay, I would say not to expect something with quite the bark of the real thing.

As usual, developers focusing too damn much on visuals, game features and physics, which is all good... but why is audio usually secondary??

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

This should be used as one of the reference :

 

[Speedster911]

This should be used as one of the reference :

What an absolutely stunning race location!

Come on you T10 guys, throw in narrower, trippy-looking mountainside tracks already!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

This should be used as one of the reference :

Wrong video

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Oh.. my ... Lord! Eargasmic is right!

Even though Forza is the best sounding thing on the X1 console, I honestly doubt it.. as sad as it is to admit.. we may not get to hear this kind of audio detail for at least another 2 or 3 FM games. Maybe on the X2 or something.



As usual, developers focusing too damn much on visuals, game features and physics, which is all good... but why is audio usually secondary??

Because as long as cars sound "nice", most players are happy. I remember bringing up concerns over PCARS a few months ago, only to responses like "as long as it sounds like a car". It's nice to be around other sound nuts now

 

[Speedster911]

Because as long as cars sound "nice", most players are happy. I remember bringing up concerns over PCARS a few months ago, only to responses like "as long as it sounds like a car". It's nice to be around other sound nuts now

Hahah, right!

Some cars do sound nice in PCARS, but overall, the sound design isn't that impressive at all. Where's that angry, shrill grunt on the high-revving P1? The MP4-12C does not at all sound like its RL counterpart.

Sheesh.. I'm really beginning to dislike the pre-release marketing hype some devs like to toss around.

Well then.. lets all huddle up and collectively cross our fingers on FM6. I'm not expecting groundbreaking changes. But a few improvements/tweaks here and there at least.

 

[Krakenous]

Weird moment alert!

So I was trying out the X1 to PC streaming on W10 with FM5 and on my PC, I have a 5.1 headphone setup which has always served me super well. So, I was eager to find out how FM5 sounded through my PC system and sound card.

WOW

It sounds, soooo good. So many more cars that were a bit "meh" now sound so much clearer and crisper being connected directly to my ears, it's wonderful, even some of the quieter smaller cars sound beefier which is great, perhaps my sound card is just that good lol.

But oddly, I found FH2 cars to sound quieter...not as clear or crisp to the same extent as FM5, so no idea what that is all about perhaps it has something to do with my funny 5 speaker split stereo forced setup on my X1 but yeah...unless I am going deaf, majority of FM5 cars sounded louder and clearer on my PC that FH2. Perhaps I should try some others but yeah...worth noting, very interested to hear the comparison with FM6 when it comes out.

Thought it was worth sharing if anyone wondered lol.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Weird moment alert!

So I was trying out the X1 to PC streaming on W10 with FM5 and on my PC, I have a 5.1 headphone setup which has always served me super well. So, I was eager to find out how FM5 sounded through my PC system and sound card.

WOW

It sounds, soooo good. So many more cars that were a bit "meh" now sound so much clearer and crisper being connected directly to my ears, it's wonderful, even some of the quieter smaller cars sound beefier which is great, perhaps my sound card is just that good lol.

But oddly, I found FH2 cars to sound quieter...not as clear or crisp to the same extent as FM5, so no idea what that is all about perhaps it has something to do with my funny 5 speaker split stereo forced setup on my X1 but yeah...unless I am going deaf, majority of FM5 cars sounded louder and clearer on my PC that FH2. Perhaps I should try some others but yeah...worth noting, very interested to hear the comparison with FM6 when it comes out.

Thought it was worth sharing if anyone wondered lol.

Remember, beefier does not mean better. For that to be the case the car has to sound accurate from the start.

 

[Krakenous]

Remember, beefier does not mean better. For that to be the case the car has to sound accurate from the start.

I am saying better in a transmission of audio POV, not saying it's better as in literally swapped from micromachines to track day.

Spoiler

I think it has proven that with a decent sound setup, FM5 has more connected sounds. And with a smaller roster of cars, it didn't get that many wrong in the V8 department. Things I've noticed, is the annoying thing with FM5 is that the sound is mushed into one master volume slider, which is rather silly, and FH2 has seperate sliders, which is awesome. However, for whatever reason, the base volume of FM5 is much higher than FH2, and using a proper dynamic range setup on my PC, you begin to hear a much greater level of detail in the already excellent sound samples.

FH2 on the other hand has it's samples shifted over to be a little quieter on a dynamic setup, but a little louder on a stereo upmixed, which is all i can do with my 6 speakers actually on the xbox 1, i need a professional sound system for my X1 when FM6 comes out but that's another issue.

I am noticing it in other non driving games too, it just depends how the sound engine was written for each of the games on X1 as they are clearly, very different from my PC to X1.

The 1992 Toyota Celica GT-Four ST185 is a big example of this difference, normally, the audio range from low mid to high mid is a but muted, before it goes full blam pass the onhigh rev range, causing a bit of a ditraction in quality. On my PC setup, what is actually the case, is the samples are mixed down to lower base tone, then shifted back up through mid range to get that rumble and sputter you get from the on/off with the ST185 and it's actually quite uniquely well done on a more accurate setup as I don't think the sound output on the X1 is anywhere NEAR as good as my Sound Blaster Z sound card on my PC and picking up the certain variations in tones, happens a lot with V6's and V8's in game.

Lol that got geeky rather quickly so i've hidden it in a spoiler!

TL;DR the importance of an accurate 1-1 sound is always number 1 on the list, however number 2, is clearly a proper, higher quality sound ouput and speaker/headphones setup.

 

[Chippy569]

As usual, developers focusing too damn much on visuals, game features and physics, which is all good... but why is audio usually secondary??

Audio doesn't sell games. Never has, never will.


Regarding streaming to win10, i have no idea how stream handles downmixing. FM5 runs in 7.1 natively, and then for your console out the console will handle the downmix to whatever output you have set in the settings app. Does streaming to win10 retain surround? I would guess not, and that it's being sent stereo-only... if so then you're just getting the stereo downmix (which would be the same mix as you'd get with some headphones plugged into the controller). If it's passing full surround to win10 then you're getting into whatever your PC settings are regarding mix.

 

[Krakenous]

Audio doesn't sell games. Never has, never will.


Regarding streaming to win10, i have no idea how stream handles downmixing. FM5 runs in 7.1 natively, and then for your console out the console will handle the downmix to whatever output you have set in the settings app. Does streaming to win10 retain surround? I would guess not, and that it's being sent stereo-only... if so then you're just getting the stereo downmix (which would be the same mix as you'd get with some headphones plugged into the controller). If it's passing full surround to win10 then you're getting into whatever your PC settings are regarding mix.

With regards to FM5 and sound, my headphones are 5.1 from a 5.1 source and use a dynamic range effect to focus each speaker from is native, so with FM5 on PC streaming in plays in full 5.1 from native, and 7.1 via my other (lower quality mind you) headphones and speakers, so it's keeping the mix, but because my 5.1 PC setup is so professional quality, the source quality is much improved.

Audio never sells games? I disagree immensely, for me and many others:

Spoiler

- GTA:VC sold me on the soundtrack alone
- Forza 2 was the first game where I actually stood up, eyes open, ears pressed my little TV to go "wow, is that the sound, from THIS game?! Gave me so many smiles, and my love affair with forza began
- rFactor never interested me because it was "too hardcore" at the time, then a modder did a compilation video of the "sounds of rFactor" and it blew my head off, incredible
- I picked NFS:U2 because my mate that owned a 206 sport said it was ideal to listen to, and EA marketed the attention to audio back when they didn't suck, remains one of the best sounding games of the era.
- GT Legends I picked up after the dev diary is corvette, never heard anything so realistic in my life at the time, picked it up literally within the same hour
- Not just engine audio, but Red Faction: Guerilla as well as having the best destruction engine, even to this day still, ahd a large focus on the sounds of the stress system and one of the dev videos showed off how sound was so key to knowing the timing of building collapses and how immersive it was.
- Oblivion, has some of the best fantasy sound assests in a fantasy games, the dungeon ghosts and ayleid ruin ghouls make such a horrifyign shreak, remains in my mind as a key feature.
- Amnesia, dark decent, was another game heavily showcased on the importance of using sound to navigate, espcape, hide or run away and was marketed intently on audio design as much as it was as a "decent" horror game.

I also did several studies at University for games trailers based on certain elements, flashy effects, certain cameras, particular prompts and cues, soundtrack and sound assets etc, did 3 blind tests. 1 test was just the video, 2nd was just the audio, and 3rd was purely with sound effects. It was pretty safe to say sound design blew the results out the water and people were way more interested in the sound and wanting to see what was actually "going on" that just looking at a trailer with a soundtrack.

There are plenty of games, that are just, 100% based on sound, sound cues, sound events or music and they sell like hot cakes. REZ on the PS2 was huge, audiosurf took off on PC, not to mention later interations of beat blazer games, then you look at things like CSS and the amount of "remix" songs just using game sounds, and then we have BF franchise which does gun sounds great.

Overall in my lifetime and a lot of people I know, sound is the biggest part of the experience. I have never enjoyed any GT game since 3 because the sound design got worse and worse and worse and now it's 1200 vacume cleaners for audio assets and i refuse to ever buy another GT. Games have won me over on sound design more than graphics and gameplay and No Mans Sky for me is going to be a big feat on whether sound design is good or not.

That's just my two cents but TL;DR is everything I've ever experienced, sound IS the selling point for me if it's a game that looks like it should have decent sound, and more companies, not just the niche, should realise this.

NFS:2015 demo should of been 50% sound 50% gameplay, not 75% terrible drift cam, 10% aweful looking physics and 15% of "filler". But again...that's just me, but if the game did more of an "Audi R8 engine sound" commercial which you can find here. this is some GOOD STUFF:

I'd be way more interested, seeing as EA keep banging on about "sound changing" this and "sound modding" that and "car culture x9000" in every other sodding tweet.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Sound was one of the first things to put me off on GT and part of the reason I'm never buying another, but sound alone in a race game wouldn't be big enough reason on its own to push me away. Good racing will trump that.

I love sound, I play a WWII flight sim and using proper custom sounds brings it to a whole different level. Again game play keeps me there, sounds make it better.

 

[Krakenous]

Sound was one of the first things to put me off on GT and part of the reason I'm never buying another, but sound alone in a race game wouldn't be big enough reason on its own to push me away. Good racing will trump that.

I love sound, I play a WWII flight sim and using proper custom sounds brings it to a whole different level. Again game play keeps me there, sounds make it better.

Kind of double meaning there lol in your post. I 100% agree with the GT comment and it's what, despite it being a good sim, i just refuse to play it because of sound which is in what you said but also apparently not as bigger deal even thoguh it influenced you. I refuse to play Driveclub for the same reason although compared to GT it's night and day but IMO it's not up to par with Forza, Hurrican being a prime example.

But yeah I agree, I play War Thunder and some of the sound design on the planes is just...seriously amazing stuff, especially with newer updates to gun sounds too, epic.

Well, 2 days before the Gamescon Xbox conference starts showing off mainly crackdonw (finally woop) scalebound and quantum break, but they after that, surely more Forza 6 stuff!

 

[GranTurismo guy]

He's right, audio never sells games. Yes we care, but we aren't relevant. The majority of players just don't give a **** and, like I said, are happy simply with a car sounding like a car.

 

[McLaren]

To be honest, they need to re-think their entire way of producing sounds or make a completely new engine because I never once heard anything close to resembling a real car throughout the entire series. As they are, they're good enough for the casual buyer but the sound in these games is in fact killing immersion for the hardcore crowd.

The Mazda 787B is a clear example of everything wrong with their sound engine and how artificial it is.

GT5/6 actually have way more advanced sound engines and they're on PS3, the samples and details seem to be of higher quality too.

Turn 10 could be doing so much better by now but they seem to be comfortable with their simple and artificial approach. It's the same thing with graphics and I don't see them ever going out of their comfort zone.

Yes, I love hearing a Corvette V8 in "advanced & high detail" audio so much, that the car ends up not even sounding remotely close to an actual LS engine.

Whilst T10 can still do much to improve the sound in the game, they at least focused on getting most of the cars to sound like their real life counterparts before wondering how to improve the sound even more. That's GT's fault & always be. An advanced sound engine means nothing when your ears only focus on the fact the car doesn't sound like it should.

 

[Krakenous]

He's right, audio never sells games. Yes we care, but we aren't relevant. The majority of players just don't give a **** and, like I said, are happy simply with a car sounding like a car.

I think you are both correct and wrong at the same time, let me explain. It's a thing people don't know how damn good they have it right now. Remove sound, you'll miss it straight away, it's taken for granted throughout history.

Imagine every E3 trailer was just generic "epic" music and no sound effects. Imagine, worse still, if every E3/game trailer was just mute or had terrible audio. Imagine if the all call of duties, battlefields, need for speeds, FIFA's, final fantasies, metal gear solids, half lifes, silent hills, marios, zeldas, forzas and elder scrolls, just causes and DIRTs, GTA's and world of warcrafts of the world were to just quietly vanish into a sea of terrible, copy and pasted generic sound effects and looping music...the world would weep and cry and gaming would of been dead long ago without sound improvements.

It's something gamers, and people, even in other media and film, take for granted, once it's removed, you'll regret it not being there very quickly, people just don't always understand that. Just because overall it is something we are just "used to" like we are used to how a car may sound or a gun may sound or an explosion may sound, where as in reality, and with the studies i've done, removing it or replacing it adds a bigger psychological impact than slightly worse graphics.

It is always going to be something you will miss 100% as soon as it's gone. Like it or not, gamers are sold on sound as much as they are visuals, try watching or playing your top 50 games without audio for a few hours and come back and say how much you "still enjoyed" it, because you won't of.

Deep down, we are a minority, those who actually "pay attention" to sound design and appreciate it so much here in this thread. I wonder how well Gamescon this week would go down if we have game audio from 1990's or no audio at all. When does a great soundtrack or intense sound effects not immerse you and throw you back in your seat in those first 10 seconds of a top AAA titles trailers or movie theatre blockbuster trailers? Never. Not to mention icon film sound effects from star trek to jurassic park.

Man I ramble too much, sorry . TL;DR sound good, ignorance bad.

 

[Speedster911]

Sound is what defines the character of a game. We're not living in the Mega Drive/SNES era. Sound has come a long way, though not quite as long as visuals, but can you even imagine a game like Battlefield or COD with mediocre copy/paste sounds?

How would you like AC, Forza or rFactor/iRacing without proper sounds? SOUND is what brings the experience together.. and for a driving game in particular, sound has to be given the highest priority, particularly when the aim is to deliver realism and authenticity.

 

[Krakenous]

Yep, a nice short version of my postl lol.

 

[Speedster911]

Yep, a nice short version of my postl lol.

 

[SimTourist]

It's hard to make sound great when 90% of the audience is gonna play through crappy TV speakers.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I think you are both correct and wrong at the same time, let me explain. It's a thing people don't know how damn good they have it right now. Remove sound, you'll miss it straight away, it's taken for granted throughout history.

Imagine every E3 trailer was just generic "epic" music and no sound effects. Imagine, worse still, if every E3/game trailer was just mute or had terrible audio. Imagine if the all call of duties, battlefields, need for speeds, FIFA's, final fantasies, metal gear solids, half lifes, silent hills, marios, zeldas, forzas and elder scrolls, just causes and DIRTs, GTA's and world of warcrafts of the world were to just quietly vanish into a sea of terrible, copy and pasted generic sound effects and looping music...the world would weep and cry and gaming would of been dead long ago without sound improvements.

It's something gamers, and people, even in other media and film, take for granted, once it's removed, you'll regret it not being there very quickly, people just don't always understand that. Just because overall it is something we are just "used to" like we are used to how a car may sound or a gun may sound or an explosion may sound, where as in reality, and with the studies i've done, removing it or replacing it adds a bigger psychological impact than slightly worse graphics.

It is always going to be something you will miss 100% as soon as it's gone. Like it or not, gamers are sold on sound as much as they are visuals, try watching or playing your top 50 games without audio for a few hours and come back and say how much you "still enjoyed" it, because you won't of.

Deep down, we are a minority, those who actually "pay attention" to sound design and appreciate it so much here in this thread. I wonder how well Gamescon this week would go down if we have game audio from 1990's or no audio at all. When does a great soundtrack or intense sound effects not immerse you and throw you back in your seat in those first 10 seconds of a top AAA titles trailers or movie theatre blockbuster trailers? Never. Not to mention icon film sound effects from star trek to jurassic park.

Man I ramble too much, sorry . TL;DR sound good, ignorance bad.

What you're saying here is that people crave the loud, exciting sounds. A T-Rex roar? Hell yes.
An overly exaggerated and completely inaccurate car sound in a racing game? Same effect. I mean that's all that's in those E3 trailers and pretty much everything else you listed.

You yourself have just proven how accurate car audio is not necessary for most players to enjoy the game.

@SimTourist speakers only add bass and allow finer details to be heard. You can tell with a crap speaker if a car sounds correct or not.

 

[Speedster911]

It's hard to make sound great when 90% of the audience is gonna play through crappy TV speakers.

Really? I'm sure that's not completely true...

What you're saying here is that people crave the loud, exciting sounds. A T-Rex roar? Hell yes.
An overly exaggerated and completely inaccurate car sound in a racing game? Same effect. I mean that's all that's in those E3 trailers and pretty much everything else you listed.

You yourself have just proven how accurate car audio is not necessary for most players to enjoy the game.

@SimTourist speakers only add bass and allow finer details to be heard. You can tell with a crap speaker if a car sounds correct or not.

Forza on standard TV speakers Vs a sound system = almost night and day. *Almost*.

 

[SimTourist]

@SimTourist speakers only add bass and allow finer details to be heard. You can tell with a crap speaker if a car sounds correct or not.

That's right, but I remember Nick Wiswell saying they have to enhance sounds with extra distortion because otherwise they sound flat and weak on TV speakers.

 

[Krakenous]

What you're saying here is that people crave the loud, exciting sounds. A T-Rex roar? Hell yes.
An overly exaggerated and completely inaccurate car sound in a racing game? Same effect. I mean that's all that's in those E3 trailers and pretty much everything else you listed.

You yourself have just proven how accurate car audio is not necessary for most players to enjoy the game.

@SimTourist speakers only add bass and allow finer details to be heard. You can tell with a crap speaker if a car sounds correct or not.

What i am saying is people take it for granted in all media, not just games. You'd miss in when it's gone.

You seem to be harping on about one point in particular which has me curious.

In your opinion, which are these cars you keep are saying are so massively innacurate and over exagerrated in the Forza series, and why/how so? Rather than keeping on saying it (I get your point) maybe you can actually explain where you feel this is so in particular?

But you have to admit, if these trailers and demos didn't have enhanced audio or audio put into the really pinnicle moments of the trailers, it would be nothing. Sound does sell, and has done for a long time, even if the majority of people don't notice it compared to visuals. That's my point.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

What i am saying is people take it for granted in all media, not just games. You'd miss in when it's gone.

You seem to be harping on about one point in particular which has me curious.

In your opinion, which are these cars you keep are saying are so massively innacurate and over exagerrated in the Forza series, and why/how so? Rather than keeping on saying it (I get your point) maybe you can actually explain where you feel this is so in particular?

But you have to admit, if these trailers and demos didn't have enhanced audio or audio put into the really pinnicle moments of the trailers, it would be nothing. Sound does sell, and has done for a long time, even if the majority of people don't notice it compared to visuals. That's my point.

There aren't any cars in forza that I find over exaggerated, that's not what I was saying.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay, I am shouting this in high fidelity STEREO. "Interesting Thread"
Thank You to OP and contributors

Will FM6 follow on from what is discussed in this producing more real-time dramatic/atmosphere? While I appreciate making the audio exciting I am concerned their is less desire to obtain accuracy over thrills?




Any-ways not sure if it adds to the discussion but also remembered and found this below regarding an interview/article on the official website for FM4 and how it was moving on at that time from previous titles.

"In the past the audio samples were replaced when you applied upgrades to the car, but this time we are using real-time, in-game digital signal processing (DSP) effects to change the sound of the car when it is upgraded (apart from the turbo system, which also swaps the dump valve/waste gate samples based on turbo upgrades).

This suite of DSP effects is all-new to Forza Motorsport 4 and allows us to make sure that all the cars sound loud and exciting no matter what audio playback system you use. It also has the added benefit of allowing us to modify how the cars sound, as the player modifies the car in the game.

Almost all of the audio used in Forza Motorsport 4 has been created specifically for this game, so it’s a quite different audio experience compared to previous titles. As well as the DSP changes to the cars mentioned above, we have all-new sounds for tires, turbos, superchargers, electric motors, collisions, crowds, ambience, wind and many others. We also have a new way of creating and playing back LFE content so those with 5.1 systems or butt-kickers are in for a real treat.

For those without a subwoofer, we now have a selectable dedicated game mix for TV speakers in the audio options, so everyone select the mix that best suits their playback system."


Another Possibly interesting FM4 related link here

This is will certainly interest some DESIGNING SOUND good insight.

--------------------------

Last point I would like to add is that I believe many people will miss a great deal of the true immersion/depth with engine sounds from the sub-harmonic frequencies. Simply because their audio device/speakers/headphones are not capable of properly producing them. Often it is these that help give an engine/sound that additional life/perception of its power and to some extents realism.

Test this see what frequency you start hearing the sound.
20Hz - 80Hz is all the juicy goodness (also the range buttkickers/tactile will work best)
Yet playing this on my laptop I only hear it from @ 110Hz (it aint got any bass capability worth talking about). A users own setup capabilities, will of course be part of the basis of their view and differ greatly amongst others.

 

[Chippy569]

^ a youtube video of a sinewave sweep for an audio reference? ...please just no. With how heavily youtube compresses the audio you're getting more artifact than signal above ~16k.

And you guys didn't quite interpret what I said correctly. Say I have $1m to improve my game. I can spend that $1m on improving graphics, and probably see that much returned from all the great reviews and blown minds etc. Or I can spend that $1m on audio improvements, and it'll get a half-paragraph nod in some reviews and no one will notice or care. Audio isn't the thing that sells games, meaning it's not the place you invest your money or time because it doesn't have a return.

Nobody leaves E3 saying "Damn those games' audio is AMAZING" because it's not what people care about.

Obviously there are some people like us in this thread who care a great deal, but we make up such a small percentage of the buying community that we don't even matter. The rest of the population just says "does it make a sound vaguely like I expected? then it's good."

 

[Speedster911]

^ a youtube video of a sinewave sweep for an audio reference? ...please just no. With how heavily youtube compresses the audio you're getting more artifact than signal above ~16k.

And you guys didn't quite interpret what I said correctly. Say I have $1m to improve my game. I can spend that $1m on improving graphics, and probably see that much returned from all the great reviews and blown minds etc. Or I can spend that $1m on audio improvements, and it'll get a half-paragraph nod in some reviews and no one will notice or care. Audio isn't the thing that sells games, meaning it's not the place you invest your money or time because it doesn't have a return.

Nobody leaves E3 saying "Damn those games' audio is AMAZING" because it's not what people care about.

Obviously there are some people like us in this thread who care a great deal, but we make up such a small percentage of the buying community that we don't even matter. The rest of the population just says "does it make a sound vaguely like I expected? then it's good."

At E3, you have a huge hall with several games playing at once.. you can't have one game being played really loud through a 5.1 system to wow audiences (unless they're handing out high-end 5.1 headphones)... of course, the focus is going to be on visuals.

As for the $1 million... why can't it be divided 50/50 on visuals and audio? Why dish out the entire one mill on visuals or audio?

Audio doesn't give you returns? Are you speaking on behalf of all developers and gamers? Wow.. I am done with the arguments here!

It's cool if you're willing to settle for less. I personally prefer audio to be as realistic and authentic as possible. Even if they are just games at the end of the day... audio leaves a long lasting impression and 100% adds to the replay value of any game.