Spec Viper ACR Racing - End of July, Early August

[Ruta]

Hi all,

Quite a while ago, Exorcet, EchoInTheSoul (a friend of mine who regularly plays GT5 and Dirt3; was competitive in Dirt2) and I were kicking around the idea of a Spec Viper SRT10 ACR series done in the style of the SCCA Pro Viper Cup. Schedule issues and real-life obligations took priority, but we have a small window at the end of July and beginning of August where this can happen. I'm posting this thread to see who else would be interested in joining us. Please post in this thread if you are interested and when you will be available in late July/early August.

Based off the racing regulations, here's what we're looking at for allowed modifications to the Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR '08:

• Legal Cars: Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR '08
• Oil Change: Allowed
• Engine Overhaul: Allowed
• Chassis Restoration: Alowed
• Aero Kit: Stock
• Wheel Change: Allowed (for cosmetic purposes)
• Tires: Racing Hard
• Suspension: Free
• Drivetrain: Twin Plate Clutch, Semi-Racing Flywheel, Limited Slip Differential ONLY
• Transmission: Must Remain Stock
• Exhaust: Must Remain Stock
• Intake: Racing Air Filter
• Engine: Must Remain Stock
• Chassis Reinforcement: Allowed
• Weight Reductions: Windshield Weight Reduction; Currently deliberating on allowing further weight mods to convert the ACR'08 to the ACR-X '10 via HP/Weight/PP restrictions

Here's the racing regulations we've established thus far:

• Driving Aides:OFF (except for ABS)
• Grip Reduction on Track Edges: Real
• Damage: Heavy (to encourage cleaner racing)
• Tire Wear/Fuel Consumption: ON
• Racing Order: Fastest First
• HP Cap: Currently at 630bhp
• Minimum Weight: 1468kg (Weight arrived at by converting the ACR'08 to ACR-X'10 via weight reduction, then bringing up to ACR-X stock weight of 1478kg via ballast, then doing window weight reduction to get to 1468kg. This gets us as close as we can to ACR-X specs.)
• Performance Points Cap: 590

Right now, we're looking at racing 15-20 laps at the following, but are open to suggestions as well:

Daytona Road Course

Grand Valley Speedway

Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway

 

[200MphFord]

Thats kinda cool i need a good reason to race my ACR and put some hard miles on it. I will let you know if im able to participate in this.

 

[Exorcet]

I'm definitely still in for this. It's been a long time coming and I really want to race. The TVR race a while back was great, if we get a similar turn out for this one I know I'll enjoy it.

 

[GfxJG]

Depends. How many laps we talking about?

 

[Ruta]

Depends. How many laps we talking about?

We're talking in the area of 15-20 laps, but not exceeding 20. I updated the OP to reflect that.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Any reason why wheels and chassis reinforcement are not allowed?

 

[disinfected]

Yeah, the wheels don't change the weight like in real life.

 

[Ruta]

Any reason why wheels and chassis reinforcement are not allowed?

Well, the chassis is to remain stock in the real-life Viper Cup, unless I'm interpreting the regs incorrectly, and same with the wheels. I understand that in-game, the weight doesn't change, so maybe we could work with that, but I kept it for the spirit of keeping close to the real-life regs.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Ok, well either way I'm fairly interested. Will have to build a car to specs and do some testing before I'm 100% certain though. Only two races though?

 

[Ruta]

Awesome - glad to have someone of your calibur on-board! I'm sure EchoInTheSoul and I can learn quite a bit from racing with you, and I know Exorcet will love that there will be someone who will push him hard.

It's only two races at the moment because I'm not sure how much time we're playing with. Exorcet is on his way back from traveling, and sometime in early August he'll start traveling again. So, it's kind of on him and his schedule. If there's any track you think would be particularly good for the Viper SRT10 ACR '08, I'd love to be able to include it. I went with Grand Valley and Daytona Road Course because Grand Valley seems to capture the spirit of other Viper Cup tracks that are not featured in GT5, and Daytona Road Course is the only one that is featured in GT5.

Edit:

I did some research into the difference between the street-legal SRT10 ACR and the one Dodge produces for the track. Apparently, it is a different chassis from the street-legal version, titled as a "track-ready chassis", so I have no problem allowing Chassis Reinforcement to bring it up to spec. I've updated the OP to reflect that, and also I may as well make it so that the wheels can be painted too, since there is a demand for that.

Edit #2:

EchoInTheSoul and I were doing some testing last night, and he brought up to me that maybe there's more differences between the the SRT10 ACR in-game and the one used in the actual Viper Cup. After some searching online, I found there is a weight difference of about 100 kg, so I'm going to do some testing with a stage 1 weight reduction to see how if it will fit the real-life specs.

 

[200MphFord]

Looking forward to participating in this series. what tires would you plan on running?

 

[Ruta]

Looking forward to participating in this series. what tires would you plan on running?

Glad to hear! We're planning on running this on racing hard tires.


After some testing with the Stage 1 Weight Reduction, it would take the weight for the ACR'08 under the factory weight of the ACR-X (1478kg), so if we were to go that way, a ballast would have to be employed to bring the weight up. That kind of negates the whole point of being able to run windshield weight reduction, plus it just makes things more complicated PP-wise, so I'm thinking it might just be easier to go with the stock weight of the ACR'08 plus windshield weight reduction for this series. Would like input, especially from Exorcet on this.

 

[200MphFord]

Ballast is no fun and theres alot of myths behind it. I agree leaving the weight stock and love the idea of RH tires. Glad to be able to put my ACR to good use like this.

 

[Exorcet]

If we're trying to mimic the ACR-X, I think the specs are 640 hp, ~3200 lb, chassis reinforcement, and some additional downforce at the front. They're noticeably quicker than the 2008 ACR and 2010 ACR.

Unless we use a dual PP and hp/weight regulation, we can't really enforce the ACR or ACR-X. Going PP only lets people mess around with the weight vs power, and going power/weight only lets people max tune the car, and then bring it down to the correct hp with the limiter (same with weight).

If the argument against using the ACR-X is because people might bend the rules, I don't think the argument works. It's just as easy to do with the stock car.

EDIT

ACR-X info
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/09q4/2010_dodge_viper_srt10_acr-x_-official_photos_and_info

 

[Ruta]

If we're trying to mimic the ACR-X, I think the specs are 640 hp, ~3200 lb, chassis reinforcement, and some additional downforce at the front. They're noticeably quicker than the 2008 ACR and 2010 ACR.

Unless we use a dual PP and hp/weight regulation, we can't really enforce the ACR or ACR-X. Going PP only lets people mess around with the weight vs power, and going power/weight only lets people max tune the car, and then bring it down to the correct hp with the limiter (same with weight).

If the argument against using the ACR-X is because people might bend the rules, I don't think the argument works. It's just as easy to do with the stock car.

EDIT

ACR-X info
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/09q4/2010_dodge_viper_srt10_acr-x_-official_photos_and_info

Yeah, we're trying to mimic the ACR-X to the best of our ability with the ACR, but it's true that we won't be able to fully do that anyway. After oil change, the ACR is 630 hp, which is close enough for me. I'm all for a dual PP and hp/weight regulation. So, just to be 100% clear on this, you'd rather we go for the weight reduction, then bring it up using the ballast, right?

 

[ManiacRS]

Hi guys. I would just like to state my interest in this series. The chance to race amongst a crowd of ACR Vipers sounds very appealing...

I've got a bit of experience from online racing in GTL and GTR2 and some in GT5 as well... But I think that the public servers in GT5 are a bit boring so I'm looking for some close fought clean battles...

I really do not care what the rules are as long as they are the same for everyone...

P.S. Apart from the general dates, on what days and at what time will these races be held..?

P.S.2 OK, sorry.... I couldn't refrain from saying this... How about Laguna, or Indy RC instead of Grand Valley..? I hate that track...

 

[Exorcet]

Yeah, we're trying to mimic the ACR-X to the best of our ability with the ACR, but it's true that we won't be able to fully do that anyway. After oil change, the ACR is 630 hp, which is close enough for me. I'm all for a dual PP and hp/weight regulation. So, just to be 100% clear on this, you'd rather we go for the weight reduction, then bring it up using the ballast, right?

It depends on how much you trust people. Even if you only allowed stage 1 weight (or even stock weight), someone could buy stage 3 weight and ballast it up to the correct weight and maybe get an advantage by playing with the ballast. There is no way to tell if someone has done this in place of just doing weight 1. On the other hand, if you used the ballast and allowed people to put it wherever they want, no one would have an unfair advantage (barring any glitch with the ballast, I don't know of any).

PP and hp/weight is the best way to catch someone, but without trying out all the combinations it's hard to say if there's a loophole or not.

 

[CodeRedR51]

P.S.2 OK, sorry.... I couldn't refrain from saying this... How about Laguna, or Indy RC instead of Grand Valley..? I hate that track...

Laguna OK, but Indy over Grand Valley? Absolutely not....

Grand Valley is the one track that represents what GT is.

 

[Ruta]

Laguna OK, but Indy over Grand Valley? Absolutely not....

Grand Valley is the one track that represents what GT is.

Yeah, Grand Valley is gonna stay, but we can work Laguna into the mix.

I'll be putting up a signup thread with full details later this weekend after we hammer the regs out.

 

[Knelly]

Hi, I'm a collector of all American Muscle ... Old and New, so would be up for thus as long as the dates and times suit. Generally weeknights at approx 10:00 BST would be awesome

 

[Exorcet]

I tested the car on a few tracks tonight. Dayonta, Monza (no chicane), and Deep Forest Reverse. The car felt good on all three tracks. Daytona's first turn and the last chicane are pretty critical, the high speed first turn of Monza would make for exciting side by driving, and Deep Forest makes the car oversteer, understeer, and everything else.

 

[ManiacRS]

Laguna OK, but Indy over Grand Valley? Absolutely not....

Grand Valley is the one track that represents what GT is.

LOL, well... What GT is... Can you really say that for 1 track..? What about Trial Mountain or, the absent in GT5, Midfield..? What about the Nordschleife, which got every other game developer racing to get a version of it (less succesfully, except for the laser scanned version of Simbin's GTR Evo) in their game... Didn't that move the GT franchise, and indeed the sim-racing genre into a new era..?

And talking of which... You do know that the ACR was setup in the North Loop of the 'Ring and actually holds the record for road legal cars. 7:21 or something (!?).

Anyway. That is just a matter of preference... I will race in any track of course. As I said in my earlier post, if it's the same for everyone it's fine with me...

And the track sort of is... By definition... The same for everyone...LOL

So don't get me wrong. I enjoy the competition, not driving in a particular track...

 

[rumblina]

I too would be interested depending on times and days. I currently rac a U.S/Can based race at 4pm Saturday PST which equates to 9 am Sunday Australia time. Anything outside of fri/sat northern hemesphire time is out of my reach.

 

[CodeRedR51]

LOL, well... What GT is... Can you really say that for 1 track..?

As a GT created track, Grand Valley represents Gran Turismo as a whole. IMO, when someone asks what the best GT created track is, Grand Valley is the first thing that pops into my head. Even a Japanese company looked into the possibility of re-creating it in real life.

Indy Road doesn't even compare.

 

[Ruta]

It depends on how much you trust people. Even if you only allowed stage 1 weight (or even stock weight), someone could buy stage 3 weight and ballast it up to the correct weight and maybe get an advantage by playing with the ballast. There is no way to tell if someone has done this in place of just doing weight 1. On the other hand, if you used the ballast and allowed people to put it wherever they want, no one would have an unfair advantage (barring any glitch with the ballast, I don't know of any).

PP and hp/weight is the best way to catch someone, but without trying out all the combinations it's hard to say if there's a loophole or not.

Yeah, this is probably the best way to go. I'm updating the OP and will be making the signup/racing thread soon.

 

[Ruta]

Racing & registration thread posted.

 

[ManiacRS]

I saw the new thread and the revised rules (concerning weight reduction).

But I have a question... The car is 590PP with 0.0Km on the clock. The engine will gain a few HP as it is run in... Do we have to limit it with the limiter ?(I hate doing that to a car...) Or can we race it with the stock horsepower it gets..?

Can I remove the air filter to remain within HP specs? It will result in exactly the same engine powerband...

P.S. The stock engine does eventually reach 633BHP when properly run in...

 

[Knelly]

Hi there, dates are noted, but this now comes down to times.

I run in a Truck series at 19:00 BST, and a Sprint Cup from 21:00 BST. on Saturdays.

Sounds like it's going to be a struggle for me to attend, if on Saturdays.

 

[Ruta]

I saw the new thread and the revised rules (concerning weight reduction).

But I have a question... The car is 590PP with 0.0Km on the clock. The engine will gain a few HP as it is run in... Do we have to limit it with the limiter ?(I hate doing that to a car...) Or can we race it with the stock horsepower it gets..?

Can I remove the air filter to remain within HP specs? It will result in exactly the same engine powerband...

P.S. The stock engine does eventually reach 633BHP when properly run in...

I've been breaking mine in through a couple test sessions and an oil change and it's still at 630bhp after all of that. It seems weird that mine didn't go up, but we'll see - maybe it will after the practice sessions. What I'm more concerned about is there not being an unfair advantage for one racer over the other. After the practice sessions, let's see what everyone's bhp is at and go from there.

Knelly, work schedule conflicts with me and at least one other participant keeps me from doing anything on Friday evenings, unless you want to be racing at 1am BST. I'll try and see if I can swing something different for earlier on Saturday - I'll let you know.

 

[Knelly]

1am BST would always be better than earlier in the evening tbh. Thanks for trying to accommodate.