Speed Kills, every K over is a killer

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What is more important is keeping with the flow of traffic. If everyone is going 90+mph while you're sticking to 60mph because it's the Speed Limit, you are the one who will cause an accident.

Most highways are probably able to contain cars going at 85mph-90mph safely. Hell a lot of them probably could contain traffic of 100+mph. The problem is more to do with driver skill. Most drivers in the US can't drive above 30mph very safely because they're always distracted by eating or talking on the phone or something.
 
What is more important is keeping with the flow of traffic. If everyone is going 90+mph while you're sticking to 60mph because it's the Speed Limit, you are the one who will cause an accident.

Most highways are probably able to contain cars going at 85mph-90mph safely. Hell a lot of them probably could contain traffic of 100+mph. The problem is more to do with driver skill. Most drivers in the US can't drive above 30mph very safely because they're always distracted by eating or talking on the phone or something.

100% true.
They are looking to make a law in NJ to prohibit people from impeding the flow of traffic in the left lane of highways. While its ideal in concept, its going to be impossible to enforce banning all slowpokes from the left lane.
 
Flow of traffic isn't necessarily a huge issue if you're driving properly. It's no concern if someone wants to drive 50mph if they're in the right lane and people are passing and moving back over. I'd reword flow of traffic to not impeding the left/passing lane. And the sooner people stop calling the left lane the fast lane the better.
 
California has some interesting speed limits

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If I recall correctly, the speed for everyone else on that road is 70 mph. How stupid and dangerous is that?
 
If I recall correctly, the speed for everyone else on that road is 70 mph. How stupid and dangerous is that?

We have that too. 80km/h maximum for trucks (semi). 100/120/130 for normal cars (Depends on which highway). And 90 for cars with a trailer.

..

Nothing says safety more than a 50km/h difference in traffic.
 
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UK limits.

70 mph on a 6 lane motorway.
60 mph on on a 5 metre wide country lane.

:cheers:

Re-posted daan's link on FB, but so confused by his last post :odd:
 
100% true.
They are looking to make a law in NJ to prohibit people from impeding the flow of traffic in the left lane of highways. While its ideal in concept, its going to be impossible to enforce banning all slowpokes from the left lane.
Kentucky has a "keep right except to pass" law that is posted, but rarely enforced.

Keep-Right.gif


Flow of traffic isn't necessarily a huge issue if you're driving properly. It's no concern if someone wants to drive 50mph if they're in the right lane and people are passing and moving back over.
If the average speed of the right lane is 50mph. If the speed limit is 70mph and the right lane is moving at 70mph and the left lane at 80mph then 50mph is completely unacceptable and he might as well be a roadblock.
 
If the average speed of the right lane is 50mph. If the speed limit is 70mph and the right lane is moving at 70mph and the left lane at 80mph then 50mph is completely unacceptable and he might as well be a roadblock.

I more just meant that relatively speaking the problems lie with people sitting in the left lane at the speed limit. It depends on traffic really, if you can see you're holding up a huge line of drivers it's probably not because they're all speeding maniacs.

You're right though, saying that 50mph is no concern is wrong.
 
If speed was truly a problem, then the NTSB (in the US) could just require all new cars made, sold, and/or imported to be governed to max out at 55 mph (or whatever they wanted). They can mandate safety belts, emissions, and others that are necessary or not... this could be no different. If anyone wants to cry "it will cost too much", only needs to remember that it's a computer controlling the top speed and most production vehicles have one set already. Most are usually between 120-155 mph.

Am I for this? Hell no. Cars don't kill people with speed, stupid people kill people with speed. Hmmm... sounds like another debate- must have a common thread.
 
Kentucky has a "keep right except to pass" law that is posted, but rarely enforced.

Keep-Right.gif

Washington has a law like that too, and the State Patrol has gone on radio and news to advise people that the left lane is the passing lane and not the fast lane.

People still ignore it though, and it's very sparely enforced.

The law in Washington also makes it illegal to hold 5 or more cars behind you. If you are holding 5 or more cars behind you, you must pull over as soon as it is safe to do so to let others pass. Of course, this gets ignored and is hardly ever enforced also.
 
What is more important is keeping with the flow of traffic. If everyone is going 90+mph while you're sticking to 60mph because it's the Speed Limit, you are the one who will cause an accident.
100% true.
I hate it when I have someone driving behind me that expects me to break the law for their convenience. Are you really suggesting that when enough people are breaking the law, it becomes not only acceptable, but advisable, to join them? Maybe people caught rioting and looting can use that defense. It was safer to join them and not stand out.
 
I hate it when I have someone driving behind me that expects me to break the law for their convenience. Are you really suggesting that when enough people are breaking the law, it becomes not only acceptable, but advisable, to join them? Maybe people caught rioting and looting can use that defense. It was safer to join them and not stand out.

It's more an observation than anything else. You can do what you want, but when you're bleeding into your airbag the defense that "at least I was following the rules" doesn't help you very much.

Sometimes you get in bad situations, and you're faced with bad choices. If my choices are join in a riot and maybe get arrested or get kicked to death in the streets, I'll take the arrest please.

If there's a road where everyone is driving 30mph over the speed limit, maybe that's not a road I want to be on if I'm not comfortable keeping up.
 
Speed differentials kill.

That said... if you're doing ninety and are caught speeding, "just keeping up with traffic" is an unacceptable excuse.

It's like saying the only reason you're beating a red light is because you don't want to be rear-ended by the other drivers who are doing the same.

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If you stay in the right lane, you are perfectly within your rights to drive within the minimum and maximum posted limits.

This also explains why raising speed limits slightly depresses accident rates... because the speed differential between "law-breakers" and "law-abiding citizens" is smaller. Those who do higher speeds don't need as much skill or foresight to avoid an accident.

This still does not excuse you from exercising prudence and good judgment on the road. It doesn't matter if the maximum limit is 50 or 100. If you are driving around cars going 45, slow the hell down.
 
Where I live, nobody follows the 50 km/h speed limit in the more rural roads. Everybody is going 60 km/h

Around here in the residential areas the speed limit is 50km/h, everyone does 60km/h.

In australia trucks are limited to 100km/h but i get passed by them when i do 104km/h(speedo readout(which is 100km/h GPS)).
 
I hate it when I have someone driving behind me that expects me to break the law for their convenience. Are you really suggesting that when enough people are breaking the law, it becomes not only acceptable, but advisable, to join them? Maybe people caught rioting and looting can use that defense. It was safer to join them and not stand out.

Sounds to me like your speed limits are too low. Your government is asking you to ignore technological advancements in engineering and become a hazard to the majority of drivers (studies say 85th percentile) who do not comply. Sticking to the speed limit makes you a danger to yourself and others. It's more like driving into the rioters without braking than just refusing to participate.

Of course, rioting is a very poor metaphor. Speeding at a safe flow-of-traffic speed is civil disobedience at best.

And since most traffic laws seem to be more about raising fines than safety, civil disobedience is something I can agree with.
 
I pretty much rode my 1000cc motorcycle in London, day in day out for years pretty much how I wanted. I never kept to the speed limits and would often excessively speed, lane split/filter very quickly. For an 8 month period my daily commute would involve [thoroughly legal speeds] every morning on some nice sweepers on the A40. I often beat all of the "crazy" couriers in London traffic, (I use to be one) its just how I ride and I am relaxed and at peace when I do. Riding slow for me is dangerous and it bores me.

I have been riding in the UK from on a motorbike from 19 till 29, and pretty much have broken all of the traffic rules multiple times per day and never a speeding ticket in my life. (Now 32)

Now, I'm not saying what I did was clever or justified, but I did it none the less. Never killed myself nor anybody else. My rule was always go fast in between where their was the most risk. Its always been a balance and a gamble to a degree but it has worked for me.

I also lived in Italy for 2 years, they they are terrible drivers. lol

I have been living In Australia now for 11 months, 5 months of that time I have been riding a little 250 for my commute to work.

Within that 5 months I have had 4 speeding tickets and 1 ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign. ( I Actually came to a stop but did not put my feet down) I am only 2 points away from losing my UK driving licence! lol I only ride to and from work, it is only about 8km and is basically straight with a few lights and traffic lights.

Filtering/lane splitting is banned here, though I still do it as my brain can not compute sitting in traffic, besides it is a safety issue, as after being rear ended already twice in my life by cars, I choose to stay well away from them.

The police are just crazy tough here in Australia, everyone drives around religiously like clones at 60kph, and guess what UK roads are safer, yet pretty much most people speed very often. People crash here because 60kph limits in many areas is just not enough to stimulate the driver into paying attention to what they are doing.

Pretty much most people living in Western Australia have lost their licences at least once, it is unreal! lol

I actually know the WA Police Commissioner and his deputy, funny thing is they are both bikers and they do not like to disucss the topic of speeding. It has been said many times before. Its a Stealth tax and used to fill budget deficits.
 
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If I recall correctly, the speed for everyone else on that road is 70 mph. How stupid and dangerous is that?

Not sure if that was a rhetorical question, but I'll bite since I saw a bunch of those signs while I was out there.

For me, the dangerous - more accurately disruptive - aspect of those signs is their potential for being misread from a distance. Before I'd got used to them, I'd see the "55" from way back and think "oh, better start slowing down". As you get closer, you then notice it isn't referring to you anyway.

Danger depends entirely on how busy the road is. On a huge number of the highways I drove on that sign could read 25 and not be dangerous, since the left lane is perpetually empty and you could see any slow-moving traffic from miles away.

The speed difference is only really dangerous if you don't have the room to pass. Though really, that's up for the driver to decide. If something is going slowly it's your responsibility to ensure you either pass it safely, or slow down in sufficient time and pass when there's a gap. It's only dangerous if you barrel along at the same speed and then realize you've not left enough time to make a maneuver.

On a busier road? Potentially more dangerous. Again, I only have limited experience to go on, but I didn't encounter any speed differential-related issues while out there. Even when big 18-wheelers were doing 30-odd up steep hills while everything else passed at 80. Because again, the trucks keep right, drivers are aware of this, and move left earlier.

It is of course also the responsibility of the slower-moving driver to ensure they don't disrupt traffic flow. I don't advocate the annoying arses that sit on motorways at 50 mph therefore forcing large, marginally faster vehicles like trucks (limited by EU law to 56) to pass, and in those scenarios I'd advocate a minimum speed limit (which several states I passed through had - bravo). But the responsible driver should be able to go slowly without disrupting traffic. Again, you guys have pull-over lanes on single-lane roads so slower traffic can move if they start to form a queue. We don't have that in the UK, but we really should.

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On the subject of the thread in general: I've probably mentioned this before, but I've no real problem with speed limits, at least in the UK, and not particularly bothered about them raising it to 80.

Four reasons:

1) Everyone does 80 anyway. An 80 limit wouldn't have any effective differences.

2) You're lucky if you get near that speed most of the time anyway. You may as well set the limit to 180 for all the difference it'd make.

3) While cars are entirely capable of doing 80 safely these days, I'm still unsure of drivers' ability to do likewise.

4) Fuel. If people want to waste an extra 10-20% of fuel getting to their destination a handful of percent quicker, that's their prerogative. But even without my eco-leanings I don't make much money, and I can think of better things to use fuel on than zipping down a motorway at a largely imperceptible 10 mph quicker.

As a result I tend to just cruise along at 70 regardless of the car I'm driving - whether it's a Smart Fortwo or a big luxury saloon or SUV.
 
Danger depends entirely on how busy the road is. On a huge number of the highways I drove on that sign could read 25 and not be dangerous, since the left lane is perpetually empty and you could see any slow-moving traffic from miles away.

Regardless of how busy the road is, the smaller the speed differential is on the road, the less dangerous.

In California, what happens is that the trucks have to go slowly in the right lane, but there are only two lanes in that direction. So a horse trailer who can go faster than the truck but can't accelerate gets into the left lane to pass going 5 mph faster. So now you have a road block and traffic backs up in the left lane. Eventually traffic backs up far enough that people start passing in the open right lane, sometimes hitting very high speeds and then cutting left to avoid the slow-moving truck that's creating the bottle neck. This creates road rage and further adds to the traffic jam. I've seen some very very poor behavior at these truck-created bottlenecks. A lot of times people will wait until they pass a truck, get to the right, mash the gas to the floor in the space between the truck they passed and the next truck, and then slam on the brakes and wedge back into the left lane to pass the next truck.

It's the dumbest thing going and it's a result of the government's speed controls.
 
Regardless of how busy the road is, the smaller the speed differential is on the road, the less dangerous.

Only in relation to attentiveness, I'd say - at least on a road without much traffic. As above, if the left lane is essentially empty, then there's very little danger associated with a slow-moving vehicle since there's ample time and space to pass it. Indeed, I'd spend less time alongside a vehicle going proportionally slower to my speed, which is certainly safer for me if the driver has a blowout* or swerves for no reason.

That said, I do get where you're coming from. The situation you described happens frequently in the UK almost to the letter. Well, and swapping every use of the word "left" for "right" and vice-versa.

It can be dangerous, but that's more because there are so many idiots about than it is because the difference in speed is inherently dangerous. If everyone wasn't an idiot then it'd be merely a minor frustration, rather than a danger.



* I do have to wonder whether the spectacular amount of truck tire debris alongside US freeways is down to the volume of traffic or a result of the fact they're often allowed to travel at 70-80 and the tires simply aren't designed to cope.
 
Only in relation to attentiveness, I'd say - at least on a road without much traffic. As above, if the left lane is essentially empty, then there's very little danger associated with a slow-moving vehicle since there's ample time and space to pass it. Indeed, I'd spend less time alongside a vehicle going proportionally slower to my speed, which is certainly safer for me if the driver has a blowout* or swerves for no reason.

The lower the speed differential, the fewer cars you pass.

* I do have to wonder whether the spectacular amount of truck tire debris alongside US freeways is down to the volume of traffic or a result of the fact they're often allowed to travel at 70-80 and the tires simply aren't designed to cope.

I think that's due to cheap retreads

RetreadingTyres-6.jpg
 
Only in relation to attentiveness, I'd say - at least on a road without much traffic. As above, if the left lane is essentially empty, then there's very little danger associated with a slow-moving vehicle since there's ample time and space to pass it.
Right, there would be very little danger for me, the passer. I'm mounted in my car looking forward, focusing my attention forward, aware of future obstacles, in control of my vehicle, and able to anticipate necessary changes and make them accordingly. But there is danger for that slow moving car because they're unable to do any of those things I just mentioned. They're at the mercy of everybody else around them, and what if the faster moving car makes a mistake? Or how about this scenario: What if the faster car is aware, but in the naturally less-aware and slower-moving state of the slower, they make a sluggish decision to move out of the way of the faster car, right as the faster car has already made the conscious decision to go around them...and they meet at the same place at the same time. This happens on a regular basis to a less exaggerated scale due to the fact that slower moving traffic ahead of faster moving traffic is naturally less aware and slower to make decisions. Do you know how many times I've been thankful for my car's sporty response when faces with poor decision-making by less aware traffic? These people are trying to kill me, I swear. First step: Monitor your mirrors for approaching traffic. Second step: Get the hell out of the way.


It can be dangerous, but that's more because there are so many idiots about than it is because the difference in speed is inherently dangerous. If everyone wasn't an idiot then it'd be merely a minor frustration, rather than a danger.
Maybe we should ask ourselves, why are there so many idiots? The danger of driving is very real so shouldn't drivers be highly trained to deal with the environment? Why do I have to be so highly trained to fly a plane when there's not a god damn thing to run into up there and important decisions are separated by long periods of not much at all? Hell, in instrument conditions I don't even have to look for traffic - other people do that for me and all I do is stare at some gauges. And I have to spend all this money and time training to do such a mundane task, so relatively safe that it's funny?

Maybe driver training should be exceedingly difficult so there aren't any idiots on the road.



* I do have to wonder whether the spectacular amount of truck tire debris alongside US freeways is down to the volume of traffic or a result of the fact they're often allowed to travel at 70-80 and the tires simply aren't designed to cope.
Danoff said it. Retreads. See, in America we do things, one of those things being cargo transportation via truck. And when you put 100,000 miles on a truck in a year, why the hell would you want to spend money on 18 tires multiple times a year when you can just scrape the old treads off the same tires and glue new ones on?
 
Right, there would be very little danger for me, the passer.
I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I'm not sure the answer is to make people who might not be capable of driving faster safely go faster...

Say I'm going along safely at 80, and someone else is doing 50 because they don't feel safe doing any more. Now really, they probably shouldn't be on the roads. But in the meantime, I'd prefer to get past them with a 30 mph differential than force them up to a speed they aren't comfortable with. This comes back to the driver training thing.

Honestly, I like the way you guys do it, and I liked that I saw minimum speed limits on some US freeways as well as maximums. At the same time, signs limiting trailer-towing vehicles to a certain speed posed no problem for me as visibility was rarely an issue. That, and everyone was ignoring them anyway.
Danoff said it. Retreads. See, in America we do things, one of those things being cargo transportation via truck. And when you put 100,000 miles on a truck in a year, why the hell would you want to spend money on 18 tires multiple times a year when you can just scrape the old treads off the same tires and glue new ones on?
I didn't even know this was a thing. Would certainly explain the issue. Thanks for the info.
 
IThe police are just crazy tough here in Australia,
I went for a drive this morning and travelling along our national highway i encountered 2x B-double semi trucks (Lorries with 2 full size trailers) and I waited until we came to an over taking lane (the highway here is 1 lane each way) and i dropped down a gear and quickly accelerated from 90 to 130 -140kph in order to get past both in the 1km long overtaking lane. As always I look far ahead in order to spot police and lo and behold we have a police 4x4 parked off the side in the grass with a speed camera, I jamed the brakes and instantly got down to the 100kph limit in time before getting hit but thats no the point. How in anyway is it fair that they are allowed to sit in overtaking lanes??
 
I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I'm not sure the answer is to make people who might not be capable of driving faster safely go faster...

Say I'm going along safely at 80, and someone else is doing 50 because they don't feel safe doing any more. Now really, they probably shouldn't be on the roads. But in the meantime, I'd prefer to get past them with a 30 mph differential than force them up to a speed they aren't comfortable with. This comes back to the driver training thing.
We've got enforceable minimum speeds on our interstates but they probably don't do much good. If this slow person were smart enough to stay in the far right lane, our "slow lane", then it wouldn't be an issue. But they don't, because a person who is scared to keep up with traffic is probably in the majority of Americans who never actually took a driver's education course to get their license. Most of our drivers are 40+ and anybody over 55 is pretty much guaranteed to never have taken a class or read the book. I feel that's the main reason why our highways are so disorganized, because most people literally do not know what they're doing.

Honestly, I like the way you guys do it, and I liked that I saw minimum speed limits on some US freeways as well as maximums. At the same time, signs limiting trailer-towing vehicles to a certain speed posed no problem for me as visibility was rarely an issue. That, and everyone was ignoring them anyway.]/quote]
Thanks for the compliment but I think you should start liking the way Germans do it. I love the way they do it. Many of our rules and "etiquette" is inspired by them, but of course Americans are dumb and instead of following common sense guidelines they stick to the few laws they know which are not necessarily based on common sense.

I didn't even know this was a thing. Would certainly explain the issue. Thanks for the info.
Sure thing. The system works but every now and then they go flying. :lol:
 
I'm not sure training is entirely the reason. I think it's just people being people. We've had theory tests and the like in the UK for yonks, but sadly it doesn't stop people being imbeciles.
 
Most of our drivers are 40+ and anybody over 55 is pretty much guaranteed to never have taken a class or read the book.

Source?

I've read the book, and I'm in the over 55 age group.

Reading the Motor Vehicle Law instruction book during Driver's Education was a necessary requirement back in the day.

We would first read about how to saddle our horses, and then we would read about crank-starting our Model T's:D:lol:

Great fun!
GTsail
 
That is far, far from true. Where on earth did you get that from?
Source?

I've read the book, and I'm in the over 55 age group.

Reading the Motor Vehicle Law instruction book during Driver's Education was a necessary requirement back in the day.

We would first read about how to saddle our horses, and then we would read about crank-starting our Model T's:D:lol:

Great fun!
GTsail
I got in from the fact that most of that age bracket I personally know in good ol' Dayton, OH was not required to do it. They were required to pass a simplistic test with knowledge gathered from hearsay to get their license. This is the reason so many old people still have certain terrible driving habits, because they learned them from their parents at a time when nobody got a ticket for not using their blinker or whatever.
 
Then I suggest you amend your statement to say Dayton drivers, or possibly Ohio drivers, since licensing requirements tend to be state-wide.

My high school had a mandatory Drivers Ed class which taught you what you needed to know to pass the state written exam and a lot more, as did most if not all the other schools in the area. Although the state test wasn't exceedingly difficult, there's no way somebody would pass it with just "knowledge gathered from hearsay".
 
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