Spirituality, global hoax or personal truth?

[Swift]

There have been many threads in this forum that touched on this subject. So I figure I might as well through it out there.

Religion is not spirituality, as we have concluded in the Religion is contrived thread. So what is your spirituality?

What I would like is for people to post questions that they have about spirituality, chrisitanity specifically, and be open minded to the answers. You can also post your viewpoints from your experiences as well. What I don't want is blind "Faith is stupid!" post without some calm logical reasoning behind it.

I have a one-on-one relationship with Jesus Christ. He's God and I do my best to keep his commandments. Being Love God and love others as yourself. My experience is real to me because of God's working in my life, His word and tongues and interpretation among others.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Just popped in, saw the thread, and was surprised it was Swift that has opened this can of worms.

Can I be the first to reply


As you have stated religion is not spirituality...but that doesn't mean that a heathen like me can't appreciate what it is to sense someone's spirit. Or even recognise your own. To me the spirit is not a detached entity that can leave your body when you die as if it is some kind of autonomous entity. To me the spirit is you!

The subtle clues from body language scent, even body heat, or the lack of are picked up all the time by us and we can form a picture in our minds, separate to what we see with our eyes, that represents the person we are looking at.


It is this perception that we pick up from clues about their health, their peace of mind, their inner strength, their anxiety, or whatever that can sometimes be so overwhelming that it pushes through our conscious mind and is what some people might call aura.

I recognise a strong spirit, I can sense this without being able to put my finger on why, but I certainly don't think my soul or spirit will outlive me

Spirituality is something you can see everyday...if you open your eyes (no faith required )

 

[Swift]

Just popped in, saw the thread, and was surprised it was Swift that has opened this can of worms.

Can I be the first to reply

I recognise a strong spirit, I can sense this without being able to put my finger on why, but I certainly don't think my soul or spirit will outlive me

Spirituality is something you can see everyday...if you open your eyes (no faith required )

If you believe that then you believe in indivduality, but not a spirit. The very essence of spirit is something that is not inherently bound to your body forever.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

If you believe that then you believe in indivduality, but not a spirit. The very essence of spirit is something that is not inherently bound to your body forever.

Totally agree. To me the spirit is me. (Edit: just my spirit is me, I don't want that to read like I am the angel of spirits )

I think that is where we fundamentally differ , but I can accept that.

I really don't think that you can pick an argument with me in this thread. You've already said that the spirit does not have to be anything to do with any God or Gods ( and there are lots to choose from ) and that is all I would ask you to accept from my view point.

So if you want an argument (they do make good threads sometimes ), you will have to try harder...maybe tell me that I have no spirit if I don't recognise my true God or something emotive like that

 

[Pako]

Totally agree. To me the spirit is me. (Edit: just my spirit is me, I don't want that to read like I am the angel of spirits )

I think that is where we fundamentally differ , but I can accept that.

I really don't think that you can pick an argument with me in this thread. You've already said that the spirit does not have to be anything to do with any God or Gods ( and there are lots to choose from ) and that is all I would ask you to accept from my view point.

So if you want an argument (they do make good threads sometimes ), you will have to try harder...maybe tell me that I have no spirit if I don't recognise my true God or something emotive like that

Is it fair to say that you view your spirit as your consciousness or do you feel it's something more?

 

[smellysocks12]

My spirituality is that I don't know whether there is anything higher or what the reason behind existence is. I don't believe in anything that hasn't been proven to me, but the lack of physical proof doesn't overrule the fact that there is a possibility that spirits exist.... but to me it's unlikely that any religion shows the way it is, since in my opinion it's based on nothing but beliefs.


I already know people like us are very puny and tiny when compared to the universe, but maybe the entire universe is also very tiny. Maybe the universe we have now is just one single cell in the body of a bacteria in under the toenail of a huge creature in another universe which is also a cell in something else. Who knows... I don't. Maybe the universe is a large creature and the planets function the way blood cells do in our body and we have no purpose in life other than just being there.


I can go on for hours thinking about possibilities, but all I know is that as long as I don't know what purpose I have in life or what created our existence I will just do my best to lead my life the way I want it to.

 

[smellysocks12]

Now I think of it, I have a question for any religious person here. Of what use is going to church every sunday, or praying so many times a day? I don't get it at all. I don't believe it makes someone a better person to periodically sit inside a building or to rehearse the same lines over and over again. I believe people would LIKE to believe that this makes them a better person, because it is easy to do. It doesn't require anything but patience to be able to do it. If people throughout centuries would have been working instead of spending time on prayers (same can be said about playing video games though) that we would have colonized the moon by now and been much more technologically advanced. Maybe I have been playing Sid Meijer's Civilization too much but that's just the way I look at things.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Is it fair to say that you view your spirit as your consciousness or do you feel it's something more?

Like your question...it made me think for a minute

Not my conciousness, I'm talking about the whole body, not just the mind.

How about, I see it as...the harmony of mind and body that can make you greater than the sum of your parts.

However you achieve you spirituality is up to you, but I would wager, that the feeling I can get from Qui Gung, (spell it how u like, its pronounced Chi Kung ) where you practice a breathing teqnique and harness Chi (or Qui) is not a disimilar feeling that you can achieve through worship
...that might provoke you

Edit: I've quoted you Pako, but the last comment (about provoke) was aimed at Swift

 

[Swift]

Now I think of it, I have a question for any religious person here. Of what use is going to church every sunday, or praying so many times a day? I don't get it at all. I don't believe it makes someone a better person to periodically sit inside a building or to rehearse the same lines over and over again. I believe people would LIKE to believe that this makes them a better person, because it is easy to do. It doesn't require anything but patience to be able to do it. If people throughout centuries would have been working instead of spending time on prayers (same can be said about playing video games though) that we would have colonized the moon by now and been much more technologically advanced. Maybe I have been playing Sid Meijer's Civilization too much but that's just the way I look at things.

Good question. 👍

Well, you don't understand what a worship service is, nor prayer. Prayer is not vain repetitions of the same thing over and over. That would be quite stupid. Infact, Jesus told us specifically not to do that.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

As far as service goes. It's just like saying, "Why do you work out? or go to a book club meeting, play video games, watch TV, play sports?" All of those things are arguably a waste of time. However, to the individual it could be an invaluable part of their life. I could give you a scriptual reference, but you don't want to see that...

 

[smellysocks12]

Good question. 👍

Well, you don't understand what a worship service is, nor prayer. Prayer is not vain repetitions of the same thing over and over. That would be quite stupid. Infact, Jesus told us specifically not to do that.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

As far as service goes. It's just like saying, "Why do you work out? or go to a book club meeting, play video games, watch TV, play sports?" All of those things are arguably a waste of time. However, to the individual it could be an invaluable part of their life. I could give you a scriptual reference, but you don't want to see that...

Well I guess that means there are a lot of heathens in the church I went to as a kid, because it was like watching the same tv show over and over again. I can see how people feel comfortable when going to church if that is what they feel they need to do. Besides just sitting there it can also be a social part of life, seeing the same people again leads to better contacts eventually and you get to know the others. But it doesn't make a person any better or worse when they go to church. If Hitler would have went to church every day he still would have ended up at the bottom of hell (if you believe in a hell to begin with).

 

[Swift]

Well I guess that means there are a lot of heathens in the church I went to as a kid, because it was like watching the same tv show over and over again. I can see how people feel comfortable when going to church if that is what they feel they need to do. Besides just sitting there it can also be a social part of life, seeing the same people again leads to better contacts eventually and you get to know the others. But it doesn't make a person any better or worse when they go to church. If Hitler would have went to church every day he still would have ended up at the bottom of hell (if you believe in a hell to begin with).

I'm just looking for the part where I or the bible says you're "better" then anyone for going to church. Infact, the bible preaches specifically that christians are NOT better then anyone else.

 

[Duke]

My spirituality is my consciousness. It will end when my physical life does. I'm totally comfortable with that. It's been a wonderful experience.

[edit] I don't know, maybe I just aim low or something. But I've had such a blast being alive that I don't feel the need or yearning for it to go on past my allotted X number of years here on Earth. I count myself lucky for any time I do stay alive.

 

[Sage]

^---- Ditto. My spirituality is my consciousness, which is merely the product of many brain synapses and electrical impulses. (Damn biology and physics meddling with each other!) I'm quite content being a walking bag of chemicals – mostly, I'm just happy I was born with a human mind instead of, say, a millipede's. On the other hand, I wouldn't even really be aware of it, so it's a moot point.

 

[Goomba]

I've lost all of my faith in Christianity, but no fault of God's much less anyone elses. I found that I was living a lie as I feel some other people are. My parents grew up Catholic/Christian and I sort of adopted it as my faith. In fact, I remember asking my parents what religion we were because I had no idea. I never really thought about it or even bothered to ask questions about it, I just accepted it.

Then the rebelious stage of life hit me.

I simply stopped believing in him. He was put in the retirement home with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I mocked Christianity and spent hours trying to disprove God existed. I was proud of the fact that I no longer believed in God; but not the good kind of pride, I was the annoying "I'm so hardcore and I can't shut up about it because I'm a rebel!" sort of proud.

Laf. I've since stopped acting like that annoying little son of a...

Now I believe I'm starting to find spirituality once again. However, I don't believe there is a god watching over us, or a heaven or hell or an afterlife for that matter. I believe more in the "flow" of things, and the best way I can describe it is an undetermined fate. I believe things can and will happen for a reason, and that sometimes these things are out of our control. However, sometimes they are not and we have the power to change them, yet it is up to us to do this change.

 

[Swift]

Now I believe I'm starting to find spirituality once again. However, I don't believe there is a god watching over us, or a heaven or hell or an afterlife for that matter. I believe more in the "flow" of things, and the best way I can describe it is an undetermined fate. I believe things can and will happen for a reason, and that sometimes these things are out of our control. However, sometimes they are not and we have the power to change them, yet it is up to us to do this change.

That would be humanism.

 

[Pako]

My spirituality is my consciousness. It will end when my physical life does. I'm totally comfortable with that. It's been a wonderful experience.

[edit] I don't know, maybe I just aim low or something. But I've had such a blast being alive that I don't feel the need or yearning for it to go on past my allotted X number of years here on Earth. I count myself lucky for any time I do stay alive.

I don't see "living in the now" aiming low at all. Quite contrary, I find "living in the now" to be a much more fulling way to live. It's all too easy to keep your eyes on the horizon that we can miss out on a whole lot of stuff that's happen all around us. If, however, there is a carrot at the end of this thing we call life, I would sure hate to miss out on it, but either way, life has been pretty good so far with no regrets. 👍

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

The majority of christian's call there religion a "faith." What I don't get is that faith is required to become a born again christian. "Works without faith is nothing", or however the saying goes. But what I believe is that christianity should not be faith-based, but knowledge based. In my opinion, it is very naive to say "I have faith in God", or "Just have faith, and you'll be saved". When I ever convert to Christianity, (again) if I do, I'll
have to know that he is real. I'm not the type of peraon that relies on faith.

I don't see myself as "spirtiual". I'm an athiest, so I don't subscribe to any religion, spirtuality, God, or faith.
I don't think the body has a spirit, but a brain that can involuntarily make decisions that's best for a given stiuation, and with that, an unlimited capacity for knowledge. Sure the brain is a mysterious thing, but I think it's all natural, not spritual.

 

[Swift]

The majority of christian's call there religion a "faith." What I don't get is that faith is required to become a born again christian. "Works without faith is nothing", or however the saying goes. But what I believe is that christianity should not be faith-based, but knowledge based. In my opinion, it is very naive to say "I have faith in God", or "Just have faith, and you'll be saved". When I ever convert to Christianity, (again) if I do, I'll
have to know that he is real. I'm not the type of peraon that relies on faith.

The reply to that statement is quite simple. You won't come back to christianity with that attitude. And it makes me sad to hear that.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.[/B]


Also, the scripture for what you previously quoted is:

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[Danoff]

Spirituality is the belief that there is more to reality than the material, the physical.

I've seen no evidence to support that claim.

 

[Swift]

Spirituality is the belief that there is more to reality than the material, the physical.

I've seen no evidence to support that claim.

Of course not, and you just said why you haven't...

 

[Danoff]

and you just said why you haven't..

No I didn't.

 

[xcsti]

Spirituality is the belief that there is more to reality than the material, the physical.

I've seen no evidence to support that claim.

It's a belief, there will never ever be any evidence to support it.

 

[Swift]

No I didn't.

Spirituality is the belief that there is more to reality than the material, the physical.

I've seen no evidence to support that claim.

You're looking for physical evidence of something that is not matter and not what is thought of to be "Traditional" energy. How would you expect to find it byt traditional means?

 

[Danoff]

You're looking for physical evidence of something that is not matter and not what is thought of to be "Traditional" energy. How would you expect to find it byt traditional means?

Who said I was looking for physical evidence? Who said I expected to find it by traditional means? I said evidence - of any sort.

It's a belief, there will never ever be any evidence to support it.

To believe something that you don't have any evidence to support is insanity. The religious people here will tell you time and again that they have evidence to support their beliefs - that they have perceived God in their lives.

I have not seen/experienced evidence to support spirituality.

 

[Swift]

I have not seen/experienced evidence to support spirituality.

Because you haven't tried it.

 

[smellysocks12]

Because you haven't tried it.

You're starting to sound like a drug dealer now. Stop sniffing that christianity powder!

 

[Swift]

You're starting to sound like a drug dealer now. Stop sniffing that christianity powder!

Uh...yeah. Powder. Uh....hmm....

Try it. I'm not asking you for money, now or later. I'm just saying try it. I've lived without God so I know what it's like. Many people are afraid to give it a shot simply because they believe that they might be convinced.

 

[Danoff]

Because you haven't tried it.

Tried to see the evidence or tried being spiritual?

Either way, my response is - how do you know?

 

[Swift]

Tried to see the evidence or tried being spiritual?

Either way, my response is - how do you know?

Because if you had, you wouldn't ask the questions that you do. That's how I know.

 

[Danoff]

Because if you had, you wouldn't ask the questions that you do. That's how I know.

You didn't answer my question. Is it the evidence you want me to try to see, or is it that you want me to try being spiritual.

So in your mind to attempt to be spiritual means to be successful. So anyone who is not spiritual has not really tried. Not only do you have no basis for that assumption, it is self-reinforcing.