SSR11 Return?

[JohnBM01]

Well, "un_peacekeeper," this goes back to the argument about little or no passing on street courses that people make. I usually say that you can't NASCAR your way through road racing. The fact of the matter is that passing is earned, not granted. It's the thing people complained and b:censored: about little or no passing when NASCAR's Busch series raced in Mexico City last year. There's skill involved in passing cars on any track, and to say that 20+ cars on a street course doesn't give you a lot of passing is complete bull. You have to choose your passing points well. The simplest way is to have the inside line. But if you're trailing the other guy/girl by a few hundreths or thousandths, there's always late braking. Before crying your eyes out about a potential lack of passing on street courses, I suggest doing some or all of "The Pass" Driving Missions. I think a few of them have street courses as well. Hell, Oulton Park is about as narrow as you could get, but it was still possible to get passes down. All this was is about that passing is earned, not given.

On the basis of 20 cars on a street course, you may recall a few races in "ToCA Race Driver 2" (by the way, I'm really looking forward to T.R.D. 2006) in which there were 20 cars to a track, and had some street courses. We don't have to do the "GT series vs. every other sim racer" deal, but try racing ToCA Race Driver 2 and compete in the street course events where there are about 20 cars to a track. Examples include Australian V8 Supercars at Adelaide or Surfer's Paradise, American 1000 at Surfer's Paradise (those cars are so fragile. Can you imagine damaging open-wheelers in GT5?), or even the 1968 Mustang Challenge at any of the fantasy street courses. On street courses, it pays to be patient. The thing I normally try to suggest is to pretend the walls aren't there. If you think so much about smacking a wall rather than just staying within the course's boundaries, then of course you aren't going to do very well. You have to have some bravery with these courses. They aren't totally nightmarish. Some street courses just aren't designed very well. The only answer to this statement is to closely follow the course and don't make any bold moves until you learn what you can and can't do on that specific course. Part of good racing is understanding the course and the car you're racing. It sounds like a lot, but it is. That's because you are responsible for so many things when out on the course. Even if you're racing a Dodge Viper SRT10 against 19 Kei cars, you're still responsible for knowing how to race the track in question and in making as few mistakes as possible.

So in other words... the idea of 20 cars at SSR11 isn't as bad as you think it can be. Even the ALMS raced in Adelaide back in 2000 with about 24 cars to the Adelaide street course in that "Race of a Thousand Years." Damn, I wished I could have seen all of that tape-delayed race!

 

[un_peacekeeper]

okay, before you write an essay, please read and understand my comment on the AI, not on passing. I am saying that with GT4's AI, the cars will bunch up because they do not recognize each other and only stay to their preprogrammed line. The AI in GT5 would defintely be improved. That was my comment, I don't know what you said about passing but I don't care.

 

[Ram-Rod]

You mean the super long twisty track that I never won at? I'd love that. I miss myself but I don't want to go back to the oldness of GT1. But more than six cars on that thing? All I can say is, hells yeah.

 

[Brock5000]

Something I'd suggest for the configurations is that I'd get rid of the 90-degree turn complex under the Start/Finish line with GT1 and just... well, I'd either make it a low-speed chicane, or just make it a high-speed extension.

I have to disagree with you there, for me that section holds some of the sweetest memories of the game; the thrill of threading through it at full speed in the Cerbera LM is unmatched. 👍

 

[G-T-4-Fan]

okay, before you write an essay, please read and understand my comment on the AI, not on passing. I am saying that with GT4's AI, the cars will bunch up because they do not recognize each other and only stay to their preprogrammed line. The AI in GT5 would defintely be improved. That was my comment, I don't know what you said about passing but I don't care.

 

[JohnBM01]

vOkay, before today becomes "Jump on John's Back and Damn Near Choke Him to Death Day," what I was getting at was that with more cars on the track, it shouldn't elevate the difficulty on a street course to incredulous levels. The extra chicane offers very little room to make mistakes. With 20+ cars going into the GT1 variant, it just seems almost too easy to misjudge your driving line and bang into the corners of that walled chicane. As much as I welcome the challenge of a street course, I don't want such a course to be too easy for me to easily wreck my car in one corner. I can remember countless times in GT1 in which I misjudged the corner or turned too early and... BANG! Car in the wall. In terms of a high-speed area with a nicely-timed chicane, this is why I sort of favor GT3's variation, because the 90-degree chicane is almost non-existant. You can simply blast through this area without having to do even light braking. Maybe a better idea would be to have a temporary chicane marked off by tall cones. This way, you're still doing some braking, but you aren't going to deliberately take yourself out all in one corner. Like I've said earlier, having 20 or more cars to a track means that GT gamers will have to practice racing discipline better. Six cars to a track is still a lot of cars, but 20 will really push the limits. So if GT5 features SSR11 and 20 cars to the track, it would help to learn about racing discipline in high traffic.

Granted that every street course from GTs 1-4 are in GT5 (including Grindelwald, Rome, and all), which GT-featured track do you think would pose the biggest challenge for racing against 19 other cars? And uh... let's not make this bash on how I don things again. You have an ignore list, so use if you can't stand the length of my posts. You got nothing important on the Internet to do, so go easy on me and post length. Reiterating the question I asked: if every street course from past GTs were in GT5, which would pose the biggest challenge with 20 cars on track?

 

[kyle]

I would like to see both variants of the tracks. I prefer GT1's better, but all in all this is a good track. It's got a long straight, and some really tough corners.

 

[DRIVEN -USA-]

SSR11 oh man i loved that track, hope it comes back in GT5, it was one of my fav. enduro races. And for the GT1 version, the deadman's chicane is one memory of the track i have, don't know how many times i slammed that concrete barrier at that corner Funny too, my fastest race on it was in the honda Si 3 door (2 stops).

 

[mwoodski]

Sorry for reviving an old topic, but I cannot seem to remember any chicane underneath the start/finish straight, does anyone have any pictures to confirm this? My GT1 is not far enough for me to see this.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Here are the two types of the legendary Special Stage R11:

- GT1 Version (aka. The Legendary Track of GT)

- GT3 Version (aka. The Most Beautiful Track in GT)

-> I agree to most people, the GT1 version is what makes SS R11 a challenging course to master with, in fact, I still play GT1 just to practice on SS R11. (:

 

[mwoodski]

See, I don't se ANY chicane on there besides that last one before the final corner, apparently theres another?

 

[corn13]

Is where the track goes under the bridge you just can't see on the map.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ Thats because that chicane is under the Start/Finish lane (aka. under the overpass) and it is too small/narrow to distinguish it on the map (I think the best way to comprehend this is to play GT1 hands-on), as you notice the middle section on the GT3 section is a hairpin while the GT1 version is a long sweep towards the chicane under the overpass.

- GT1:

- GT3:

(:

 

[mwoodski]

I feel so n00by, I mean, I've been playing since GT1's release, and I've never driven that version. My PSX never saved a GT1 game, so I had to keep the PSX on for a long time (30+ days) and I never raced it, then lo and behold, a thunderstorm comes, and deletes the game, I never really felt the same about GT1 since.

 

[GT40 MKII]

i missed it myself i enjoyed running the diablo on it in gt3

 

[amar212]

Come on John, SS11 chicane is not so big problem when pack-racing.

I have a memory on 2P racing when both of us were making a perfect pass in slipstream with no problems.

Once you learn it - you've learned it.

Even doubfull AI in first GT could cope with chicane without any problems. Only car that was banging there before learning the damn walls was my car. More advanced AI would do it in a dime.

Also notice that physical model in first GT allowed insane speed in both approaching and exiting in chicane. With GT4's physiscs one would have to slow down drasticaly first when approaching chicane in underground section, and then before actualy going in.

Only speed would be gained in middle of chicane during accelerating. I see no problem there at all.

Bring back the oldies. Brock 5000 knows the words .

 

[sirlosealot]

Oh doG !!! Please not !!!

Well not unless the AI is improved. I've never played GT1, but in GT3 the AI was hopeless at taking all sharp corners and slammed me all over the place.

Bring back Rome though.

 

[Jim Prower]

I don't mind that chicane. I just slip right through every time. no prob.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I think why PD changed the route on the GT3 compared to the GT1 is that because for the view of the ferris wheel (more eyecandy if you ask me), but it took away the technical esensce/feel of the R11 (the chicane under the start/finish lane). But thats just me. (:

 

[toyota_gt1]

i like both route 11 tracks. if i had to choose between one of the two then it would be the gt1 version. the only things i would change is to add the awesome looking farris wheel from gt3 and possibly completely remove the chicanes under the main straightaway and make it a full straight itself. plus, change the tunnel about 2/3 of the way through the track back to the gt1 version. it can be hard to see in there. overall, i would love to see both tracks back in gt5 and maybe even rome curcuit and red rock valley.

 

[JohnBM01]

I posted in this thread before? I thought this was new. Anyhow, I think we may see this track again. Notice this pattern. GT1 had SSR11. GT2 did not. GT3 brought back SSR11. GT4 did not. So if this pattern continues, there's an 80% chance we'll see this again. To be convenient, I'd like to see both variations be available. I hated the GT1 variant under the freeway that has 90-degree corners where it's too easy to screw up a good lap. The most dangerous aspect of street course racing is that of stuff that significantly shortens the road so that you run into a pillar or something... ending up in a head-on crash and a significant loss of time. I say that the road leading to the area of track I just mentioned have only one side of the street to work with. Then maybe just set up a temporary chicane made of high cones and extra curbing like at street courses like the Changwon (a South Korean street course usually run by Formula 3 cars) circuit.

But I still think we may see this track again. Perhaps even the most beautiful variant of it in the series' history. I like GT1's variant the best even though it isn't as detailed as the GT3 variant. Make it a crystal-clear night sky or a mostly clear sky... and we're in business.

 

[Stevisiov]

Either have both gt1 and gt3 tracks or merge the awsome backgrounds of gt3 onto the original track of gt1. This would make for great endurance race, as it is to long for a normal short race, i think it should be confined to the major races and endurance races.

My experience of this track in gt1 was that i had the closest race i have ever had in any gt game, despite being a 30 lap race I only won it by 0.004 seconds in fact I had to wait to see the scoreboard before I knew who acctually won it, everything was going well until i made the foolish decision of not pitting on the last lap, my tyre display was turning red and i managed to throw away half a laps lead by driving badly and of course hitting the 'chicane'. Coming up on the last strait with the NSX S-zero right behind me and catching was exhilerating. The 'chicane' taught me a valuable aspect of Gran Turismo, it taught me that SSR11 is an incredible track and that the 'chicane' situated underneath the start finish straight while being slightly unrealistic, is the best part of the track which also was the best track in the game.

 

[Sam505]

I miss it, but I liked the original better than the GT3 version. They should get rid of the little baby Clubman Stage and just keep the two bigger track versions.

 

[Michael88]

I would really love to see the original R11 of GT1 in GT5

The battles with LM cars at that beautiful night circuit were absolutely wonderful, especially with the cerbera LM, FTO LM and the [R] Chrysler Viper at the road. Great memories.

The best things were that chicane and the length of that track, ( as far as I can remember about 2:10 with a good LM car) caused by the hard turns, overall a extremely hard track.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Take not that the R11 in GT1 is the perfect practice course for drifting than R5 ever was just because there is a variations of corners that is technical enough to execute drift techniques (fast or slow drifts). (: