Suggestion about the Livery Editor Competitions

[YukinoSuzuka]

If we're going down the route of finding a better scape, then I propose abandoning the 'studio' idea and just finding a scape that offers the best angle and lighting in general without the need for additional settings.

Yes, I think this would be a good idea, the problem is you can't play with angle in scapes mode. in race mode you're 100% free.

For example, I'm a frequent competitor in a competition that's organized for over 510 weeks now, where competitors have to search for the best second hand cars on the net with every week a new theme ! Almost every week searching for the best car you've in mind and the luck you need the seller made awesome photo's instead of standard 'studio' photo's or from the showroom with a dead plant in the background.

I think more freedom would work for finding the best angles that work for the livery you made this time + a kind of sub-subforum for photosettings maybe and then.... Do whatever you want to do to 'sell' your livery for the best.
It will provide the competition with more diversity and more creativity + on longer term you will probably learn making better pictures compared to the 're-using the first Shiretoko' setup.

It's not a rant, no, but it feels dumb to me somehow.. Like you've a car setting for one specific RWD car and you're using this setup for every other RWD car in your garage

Note : For everyone, thanks for this discussion.
Shows the power of this forum in general, friendly and understanding + great work & great ideas !

 

[syntex123]

I get where you’re coming from. But it can’t be too random either. All liveries needs to be judged equally, and having it like the first two competitions where you were free to take any picture you wanted was how you’d win or lose the competition.

If you want to take a nice picture, by all means go ahead. But as a bonus picture, not as the main two. This isn’t the PMC where your photographing skills matter.

 

[baldgye]

I get where you’re coming from. But it can’t be too random either. All liveries needs to be judged equally, and having it like the first two competitions where you were free to take any picture you wanted was how you’d win or lose the competition.

If you want to take a nice picture, by all means go ahead. But as a bonus picture, not as the main two. This isn’t the PMC where your photographing skills matter.

Have to say, I like the chat of this new photo guy @WallRunner I think it could be good to run a competition with his settings and see how it goes.

 

[syntex123]

@baldgye
His settings will indeed be in the next comp, yes.

 

[syntex123]

Played around with some settings for a mandatory scape for the helmet/suit.

Keep in mind I'm not a pro photographer so I kept it simple. Feel free to step in and improve.

Scape: Mauna Kea Observatories 03

Camera Settings:
Zoom: 96mm (max)
Aperture: f1.4
Aspect 1:1
- Add some tilt.

Effects:
Temperature: 6800
Color Cast Correction: 0.015
Screen Effect 1:
Filter: Lo-Fi at 50%
Screen Effect 2:
Filter: Clear Skies at 25%
Car Effects:
Filter: Highlight Boost at 50%

No Individual Color Tone Correction needed. To me, this looks fine.

 

[Raphaele]

Played around with some settings for a mandatory scape for the helmet/suit.

Keep in mind I'm not a pro photographer so I kept it simple. Feel free to step in and improve.

Scape: Mauna Kea Observatories 03

Camera Settings:
Zoom: 96mm (max)
Aperture: f1.4
Aspect 1:1
- Add some tilt.

Effects:
Temperature: 6800
Color Cast Correction: 0.015
Screen Effect 1:
Filter: Lo-Fi at 50%
Screen Effect 2:
Filter: Clear Skies at 25%
Car Effects:
Filter: Highlight Boost at 50%

No Individual Color Tone Correction needed. To me, this looks fine.

Nice livery, especially those Sunday Cup/N-Class decals. Over all, the toning seems to be a little too cold = cyanish.

 

[syntex123]

Nice livery, especially those Sunday Cup/N-Class decals. Over all, the toning seems to be a little too cold = cyanish.

Thanks.
Yeah I tried getting it as white as I could but you’re right. Feel free to correct it/find a better scape if you want

 

[baldgye]

I think I'd like to see the rules run at strict as possible for a competition or two, just to see what it does to the entries.

Played around with some settings for a mandatory scape for the helmet/suit.

Keep in mind I'm not a pro photographer so I kept it simple. Feel free to step in and improve.

Scape: Mauna Kea Observatories 03

Camera Settings:
Zoom: 96mm (max)
Aperture: f1.4
Aspect 1:1
- Add some tilt.

Effects:
Temperature: 6800
Color Cast Correction: 0.015
Screen Effect 1:
Filter: Lo-Fi at 50%
Screen Effect 2:
Filter: Clear Skies at 25%
Car Effects:
Filter: Highlight Boost at 50%

No Individual Color Tone Correction needed. To me, this looks fine.

oooo hope this means we are going to have a helmet/outfit comp soon!

 

[syntex123]

I think I'd like to see the rules run at strict as possible for a competition or two, just to see what it does to the entries.

I do agree, I think I have been mighty kind so far, with the constant reminders and stuff. I always feel bad when I see DQ entries too late and ending up excluding them from the poll. I hate being seen as a ‘bad guy’.

I have to face the fact I can’t please everyone, and I can’t blame myself when said DQ entries doesn’t follow the rules. It’s not my job to read; it’s the contestants job.

oooo hope this means we are going to have a helmet/outfit comp soon!

In some way we do now, not exclusively though. The car livery should be based on the suit, not vice versa.

I would imagine we get a car-less round soon.

 

[Greycap]

The problem with DQing entries is that it doesn't seem to be consistent. The latest poll had entries removed (including my own, and rightly so) for incorrect image sizes, yet poll #11 had the 1st and 3rd places taken by entries that shouldn't have been there to begin with as they didn't follow the only mandatory requirement of the round, the licence plates. Good looking liveries? Absolutely. Conforming to the rules? No, unfortunately.

 

[baldgye]

The problem with DQing entries is that it doesn't seem to be consistent. The latest poll had entries removed (including my own, and rightly so) for incorrect image sizes, yet poll #11 had the 1st and 3rd places taken by entries that shouldn't have been there to begin with as they didn't follow the only mandatory requirement of the round, the licence plates. Good looking liveries? Absolutely. Conforming to the rules? No, unfortunately.

It's always going to be difficult to police everything exactly.
I also think the level of leeway between different competitions as it changed as it has grown in popularity and the number of entries not conforming to the rules

 

[syntex123]

The problem with DQing entries is that it doesn't seem to be consistent. The latest poll had entries removed (including my own, and rightly so) for incorrect image sizes, yet poll #11 had the 1st and 3rd places taken by entries that shouldn't have been there to begin with as they didn't follow the only mandatory requirement of the round, the licence plates. Good looking liveries? Absolutely. Conforming to the rules? No, unfortunately.

Like @baldgye says it’s not always easy to dq or keep, I chose to keep the entries in #11 because they did have a license plate, sure they didn’t have both, or some weren’t real (novelty plate) but technically still a plate.

If I was to be any more strict, maybe half of the current poll would be dq’ed. Why?

Wrong settings, wrong angle on the comparison pics. Mostly wrong settings.

 

[MatskiMonk]

The way I see it... it's a bit like sporting regulations and technical regulations.

How your entry is submitted is one thing, what your entry is, is another. I'd suggest that the former is at Syntex's discretion, the latter is moreso at the discretion of the person who set the theme. The reason for the former is to allow the competition to run efficiently and fairly in terms of the threads and the polls, the reason for the latter is to enforce the spirit of the theme and the competition... so IMHO there is a reason to treat the two areas with differing discretion.

Just my two cents.

 

[Cytoria]

I suggest that the poll doesn't start at midnight the day the current round ends.

It is cool that the new LEC is launched at the same time that the other ends, but I think everyone won't bother if the poll start a few hours later.

This delay is not made to allow people to correct their entries, they have the whole fortnight to do that. But this will ease @syntex123 and other moderators to collect the data and make the thread without the stress of the 00:00 deadline (and late minute posts to insert while already preparing the new one).

Edit : I will double post with a suggestion of an update to the rules to make them more clear hopefully.

 

[Cytoria]

THIS FORTNIGHT’S THEME

If possible, the winner who gets to choose the theme can create a banner/posture/picture to illustrate his theme.

« Quick presentation of the theme. »

CARS : specifies the type of cars the contestants will have to use
LIVERIES : specifies the main attributes of the liveries (replicas, original, …)
UNIQUE RESTRICTIONS : a list which describes more precisely the requirements for the entry liveries
BONUS PICTURE SETTINGS : specifies if any special requirements are needed for the bonus picture(s)
USER MADE DECALS : specifies if the contestants can use their own SVG or discovery section decals OR only in-game decals
LOCATIONS : (not useful anymore)


GENERAL COMPETITION RULES

ENTRY SUBMISSION

- The only way you can take part is to be a member of the GTPlanet forums. If you haven't created your account yet, click here
- Mark your FINAL ENTRY clearly, with red text.
- Unsure how to? Copy and paste the following: Code: FINAL ENTRY
- One entry per user. It must be your own work, and never previously used in a competition.
- You may change your entry once. Do it clearly; edit out your previous entry, and either post the new one in a new reply, or in place of the original.
- Do not post "Honourable Mentions" or outtakes - just your Final Entry, that's all.
- Absolutely no entries which utilize edited/hacked file saves.

- Winner gets to choose the following Fortnight's theme.
- Winners cannot enter in their own theme!
- The Host may ask for the original image/livery and it must be submitted if so.
- It's recommended to share the original livery online (in-game) to prove it’s your work.
- Winner, second and third places will have to share the links of the liveries for the Hall of Fame thread


ENTRY PRESENTATION

- All posted images must not exceed 640 pixels in either direction (main and bonus pictures)
- You have to post two main pictures of your entry using the mandatory locations and settings as shown below
- You are allowed to post one bonus picture in a spoiler with free location and settings (unless the unique restrictions of the week’s theme specify something else)

- It is recommended you host your image either here on GTPlanet (via the Media section), or on Flickr
- Not sure how to submit your image? Here's a guide for both methods mentioned above.
- A preview image must be representative of the full-size image. Do not add effects to it.
- Please use a clickable-preview to full-size, not a separate text link for it; it makes poll creation much easier!
- No heavy post-game editing, slight enhancing is allowed.


MANDATORY PICTURES

- You have to post a front quarter view and a rear quarter view of your car.
- You can choose between the Shiretoko location or the White Sands 02 location. No other location will be allowed for the main pics.

- If you choose the Shiretoko location, please follow the settings in the spoiler below.
[SPOILER with settings and the Demo Car example]

- If you choose the White Sands 02 location, please follow the settings in the spoiler below.
[SPOILER with settings and the Demo Car example]


Please, ensure you read and understand all requirements for this competition. Failure to follow the rules may result in disqualification. If you have questions, start a convo with me.

 

[syntex123]

@Cytoria

So if I understand you correct - the comp ends when the new comp begins BUT the poll is up 24h-ish later? I can be onboard with that.

I can definitely implement the rule post you propose. It should be as clear as night and day if only people bother to read and click the spoilers. I like it. I'll do it next round, if that's ok!

 

[dizco]

Most of the rules make sense i think. Small preview pictures, to reduce the filesize and make it easier to browse these threads even with your mobile phone. Two Studio-like images with the samre settings, to make the liveries compareable. Of course, creating the poll thread should be as simple as possible for the admins.

But one rule does not make a sense for me - why we have to hide the bonus shot in a spoiler? In my opinion the bonus picture is essential and should be visable without opening the spoiler. The first impression of the submission should involve the neutral, studio like images and the bonus shot. This would give anybody the chance to show the livery in the best light, because it makes a huge difference if you use glossy, matte, metallic or satin layers.

This would be even better for the poll, because you don't have to open 30+ spoiler boxes to do your votes. It's just my piont of view, or is there any other reason to use the spoiler box?

 

[Cytoria]

@dizco I can agree. This rule was created when there was no restriction to the qu’ani of bonus shots.

@syntex123 Yep, it will let you some time to put everything together. I’ve also wrote another section for the « future » rules . I’ll PM you later with that.

 

[daan]

That rule might be unnecessary but it's worked so well for the PMC making everything look well organized so I'm not sure I will ditch the size rule yet - I might accept a larger size, but imo a size rule should still be there. This could be brought up in the suggestions thread if enough people find the sizing to be a huge problem. I can only speak for myself but 14 competitions without much problems and complaints, I think it's doing fine.

Your entry was put back in the poll, as when I added @TYLER2013's entry I noticed your image links worked again. Did the same to another entry. There was another one - but the entry format was wrong and I saw that after adding it so I had to remove it.

The main issue I have with the size of the spoiler image is when it is not your image. Most times, we are making the image, so we can size it the same as our other images. The problem occurs when it's not your image, like when we had to post an image of the car that we had made a replica of. Mine was easy to do as I used an image that I took, that was already on Flickr. But if you had to find the image on a random website, you'd need to save it (if you were allowed to) resize it, and then upload it again, and all of that effort for an image that's not being judged as part of the contest.

Thanks for the vote though.

No problem.

So if I understand you correct - the comp ends when the new comp begins BUT the poll is up 24h-ish later? I can be onboard with that.

Yes, do that. Good idea @Cytoria. How often has a poll went up right first time? Resetting the poll doesn't work either as folk won't necessarily realise they have to vote again.

 

[syntex123]

@dizco yeah the size is mainly helpful when collecting entries and making the whole list, and it is imo more organized too, instead of having random sizes next to eachother. It wouldn’t look good.

As for the bonus image - it was like @Cytoria says made for spoilers before we restricted how many bonus shots you could take.

I could agree on making the bonus shot the main image and the two mandatory ‘studio shots’ in the spoiler instead? With less images prominently visible in the poll, the better imo. (Did I say that right?)

The main issue I have with the size of the spoiler image is when it is not your image. Most times, we are making the image, so we can size it the same as our other images. The problem occurs when it's not your image, like when we had to post an image of the car that we had made a replica of. Mine was easy to do as I used an image that I took, that was already on Flickr. But if you had to find the image on a random website, you'd need to save it (if you were allowed to) resize it, and then upload it again, and all of that effort for an image that's not being judged as part of the contest.

Yes - quite right. Valid point and taken into action, should it happen again.

Yes, do that. Good idea @Cytoria. How often has a poll went up right first time? Resetting the poll doesn't work either as folk won't necessarily realise they have to vote again.

I do believe some were put up right, when there weren’t so many entries. Most of the ‘errors’ I need to fix post-post (lol) is the images that were uploaded directly into the entry post. I hate those. Since I have to re-upload them to get them visible.

So yeah. More time to prepare and only focusing on the poll to a deadline is better than having two threads to set up and post AND a front page newspost right at the same time. I do believe that would sort out 99,9% of the errors as then I can focus on only the poll without getting stressed because I have too many balls in the air.

 

[daan]

I could agree on making the bonus shot the main image and the two mandatory ‘studio shots’ in the spoiler instead? With less images prominently visible in the poll, the better imo. (Did I say that right?)

As has been pointed out, it's not a photography contest and the 2 studio shots should always be the main shots IMO.

 

[syntex123]

As has been pointed out, it's not a photography contest and the 2 studio shots should always be the main shots IMO.

Yes, of course. I don’t know why I wrote that. too tired still I guess.
Missed my meeting today too, so there’s that.

 

[dizco]

@daan
Isn't it possible to resize Images with bb-code like this -> https://www.bbcode.org/examples/?id=10

@syntex123
A minimal layout to show the submissions - ok. But why hide 1 of 3 essential images in a spoiler box, even if you have to open alle spoiler boxes to make a proper vote? If there are competition with more than a single bonus shot (suits, helmets or pictures of original liveries) ,the spoiler box could be used to provide a nice layout without too many images per submission.

Image 1 - MANDATORY PICTURE A - 640px
Image 2 - MANDATORY PICTURE B - 640px
Image 3 - BONUS SHOT - 640px
+ (optional) Spoilerbox if the competition allows more than one bonus shot.

 

[syntex123]

Yeah, let's try. 👍 Fresh start next round.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I have a question. When creating the poll threads, there's no mention of whose entry it is, is this a conscious choice, or just to save time?

 

[syntex123]

@MatskiMonk
Both. Initially, the PMCs are like that, and that recipe is what I was copying. But yeah it saves a lot of time too.

 

[MMX]

I like that the entries' creator is not identified. Less chance of voting being based on the person, instead of the work.

Works real good for me, cause I can't remember crap, so it's new every time.

 

[syntex123]

Yeah, I almost wrote that too. Still a chance of it happening, but it's not as high.

 

[Strax]

I'm reviving this topic because of the discussions we had in the regular LEC 16 one. So, the issue of the usually not so final entry: one edit is allowed, but should it be an edit to the livery (change of decals, something added or removed) or should an entirely new livery be allowed? I don't really see an issue with a complete livery overhaul, being just one allowed and the red final entry being mostly a tool for poll makers...but, should we discuss the issue?

And, talking about discussions...also to make it easy for poll makers, starting from @daan 's idea...should there be a separate LEC discussion topic? Where people can comment other entries, discuss the theme should they have doubts about it, or anything else really. It could be one topic only to include every LEC, so this won't flood the section with too many topics. What do you think? It would also work in favour of the poll makers, as the entry topic would remain far easier to consult.

 

[Cytoria]

Although I can understand it will make the poll creation easier, I think it will not work.

If you spot a mistake in an entry, how did you inform the contributor ? A quote in another thread ? Some people will follow this rule, but humanity is made so the primal answer will be « tell him right now » !

Another suggestion was made : making the FINAL ENTRY with pictures only, and the text with description and precision in a double post. Having never made a poll myself I wonder what is easier ? Less pages with text to delete, or clean empty posts but more messages in the thread ? Only @daan , @BLiTZ and @syntex123 can answer that...