Tesla Master Plan: Part Deux

  • Thread starter CodeRedR51
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Eunos_Cosmo
Maybe they'll set the "standing" lap record (as in from 0mph instead of the customary flying lap). Maybe they'll set the fastest "loaded" sedan lap with 5 people in it? Maybe they'll set the fastest "driverless" sedan lap on autopilot? It's gonna be something like that, if anything at all.
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I like that there is finally going to be a performance variant doesn't look like a wolf in sheep's clothing. I can understand the Plaid powertrain is a bit too lairy for the Model 3, but I'd like to see a widebody variant in the future. ;)
 
I think there is no shame for Tesla to be beaten by Porsche on a Nürburgring Lap Record.
Porsche had been in this game for a long time and everybody needs to work hard to beat them.
And Tesla is there now with a 7 seater Model S? I did not even know it could have 7 seats!
 
Motoyuki7
I think there is no shame for Tesla to be beaten by Porsche on a Nürburgring Lap Record.
Porsche had been in this game for a long time and everybody needs to work hard to beat them.
And Tesla is there now with a 7 seater Model S? I did not even know it could have 7 seats!
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I think if Tesla can get within a reasonable margin, I'd say that's acceptable.
 
I can't wait until Tesla utterly fails at this, despite its best efforts to cheat.

 
I don't really mind/care if they cheat. Car manufacturers cheat all the time. Nurburgring lap times are one of the least regulated things in the entire industry.

My concern with it is fully and entirely down to the months or years of tedious smugness from Tesla fanbois if Tesla somehow manages to fluke a faster laptime than Porsche.

I almost wish Porsche hadn't published a time solely so we didn't get the inevitable Elon dick-waving that results. The cult of Tesla is somewhere up there alongside Trump and Brexit as things that make every single day of existence marginally less palatable than it should be.
 
homeforsummer
My concern with it is fully and entirely down to the months or years of tedious smugness from Tesla fanbois if Tesla somehow manages to fluke a faster laptime than Porsche.
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You say that as though it's not absolutely going to result in that whether the record is beaten or not; there's always going to be something to qualify a loss. "Imagine how much faster it would be if it cost twice as much." "Pretty good for a disruptor."

homeforsummer
I almost wish Porsche hadn't published a time solely so we didn't get the inevitable Elon dick-waving that results.
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As not particularly useful a metric as it is, a 'Ring time does strike me as something Porsche enthusiasts consider important. And I kind of get it, I guess, considering the motorsport history that the company has. But is it really likely that it's something Team Tesla cares about in the absence of the holdmybeerness of it all?
 
Joey D
I can't wait until Tesla utterly fails at this, despite its best efforts to cheat.

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Except they're not cheating. Everything right now points to them using that red 'plaid version' Model S for a timed lap. That version will actually go into production so it's not a modified version that people won't be able to buy. Just the tyres are cup tyres (if they use the same ones as the one pictured in that cheating tweet) but do we even know what tyres were on that Porsche for the timed run?



I also like how many people think Tesla is just quickly trying to do this to steal the record from Porsche. I really doubt they built that red 'plaid version' Model S so quickly, I'm sure that's been in the pipeline for a longer time already. They just decided to reveal it a bit earlier than planned because of that Porsche record getting so much attention. And I guess a Nurburgring lap time really wasn't planned, just the Laguna Seca one was. Porsche just gave them a bigger challenge. ;)

I'm actually quite excited to see if they're able to do it. Surely beating Porsche on the Nurburgring is very hard to do but if any electric car maker can do it, I'm pretty sure it'll be Tesla with all the experience they have so far with electric cars. Or if they indeed get close that's already a great achievement.
 
Firehuntah
Except they're not cheating. Everything right now points to them using that red 'plaid version' Model S for a timed lap. That version will actually go into production so it's not a modified version that people won't be able to buy. Just the tyres are cup tyres (if they use the same ones as the one pictured in that cheating tweet) but do we even know what tyres were on that Porsche for the timed run?



I also like how many people think Tesla is just quickly trying to do this to steal the record from Porsche. I really doubt they built that red 'plaid version' Model S so quickly, I'm sure that's been in the pipeline for a longer time already. They just decided to reveal it a bit earlier than planned because of that Porsche record getting so much attention. And I guess a Nurburgring lap time really wasn't planned, just the Laguna Seca one was. Porsche just gave them a bigger challenge. ;)

I'm actually quite excited to see if they're able to do it. Surely beating Porsche on the Nurburgring is very hard to do but if any electric car maker can do it, I'm pretty sure it'll be Tesla with all the experience they have so far with electric cars. Or if they indeed get close that's already a great achievement.
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I think it's less doubtful than you might have realized. Tesla would have known for some time that the Taycan was coming, and that it would set a fast 'ring time. I think that Tesla has very little chance of beating Porsche. I can think of a bunch of electric car makers that could potential beat Porsche around the ring (Lotus for example). But I think nobody has a shot at an electric 4-door time. To your point, perhaps the closest in that group is Tesla.
 
Firehuntah
Except they're not cheating. Everything right now points to them using that red 'plaid version' Model S for a timed lap. That version will actually go into production so it's not a modified version that people won't be able to buy. Just the tyres are cup tyres (if they use the same ones as the one pictured in that cheating tweet) but do we even know what tyres were on that Porsche for the timed run?
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Not exactly a production car then. It's no different the Jag's stupid attempt with the XE SV. All Tesla is going to be able to do is claim a record for "the fastest prototype electric sedan ran on a Saturday in mid-September"...which is meaningless. And don't get me wrong, all Ring records are meaningless, but concocting some random record takes something lame and manages to make it super lame.

And with Tesla, I don't believe anything of there's will actually go into production until it's being delivered to customers. We've heard about the pickup truck, semi-truck, and god knows what else for years now. All we're left with is two cars and an SUV with a dubious pricing scheme and has an autonomous system that's pretty awful.

R1600Turbo
Old news, not the car they're using.
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Except the car they are using is exactly like this one and presumably parked in front of it. It's using non-standard tires and has that spoiler that looks like it was cobbled together with a trip to Home Depot...which even according to Musk is "needed". If Musk and Tesla were truly confident, they'd show up with a showroom model and put some safety stuff in it and let it go.
 
Joey D
Except the car they are using is exactly like this one and presumably parked in front of it. It's using non-standard tires and has that spoiler that looks like it was cobbled together with a trip to Home Depot...which even according to Musk is "needed". If Musk and Tesla were truly confident, they'd show up with a showroom model and put some safety stuff in it and let it go.
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Did you read the last page or so before you came in here and posted that? The actual car they will likely use is the red widebody car posted above. Which is a prototype vehicle for a production car that will be available next year. Key word there is prototype.
 
R1600Turbo
Did you read the last page or so before you came in here and posted that? The actual car they will likely use is the red widebody car posted above. Which is a prototype vehicle for a production car that will be available next year. Key word there is prototype.
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Yes, along with a bunch of other stuff on various other sites. Looking at the license plates though, I can see the red car in front of the grey car isn't the one that's been photographed on the Ring. Apparently the car in the picture has a Munich plate whereas the car seen on the track has a Bitburg one.

And it's still amusing that anyone thinks this car will be available next year. I doubt it'll be available in 2020 or anytime for that matter.
 
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Joey D
Not exactly a production car then. It's no different the Jag's stupid attempt with the XE SV. All Tesla is going to be able to do is claim a record for "the fastest prototype electric sedan ran on a Saturday in mid-September"...which is meaningless. And don't get me wrong, all Ring records are meaningless, but concocting some random record takes something lame and manages to make it super lame.

And with Tesla, I don't believe anything of there's will actually go into production until it's being delivered to customers. We've heard about the pickup truck, semi-truck, and god knows what else for years now. All we're left with is two cars and an SUV with a dubious pricing scheme and has an autonomous system that's pretty awful.

Except the car they are using is exactly like this one and presumably parked in front of it. It's using non-standard tires and has that spoiler that looks like it was cobbled together with a trip to Home Depot...which even according to Musk is "needed". If Musk and Tesla were truly confident, they'd show up with a showroom model and put some safety stuff in it and let it go.
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And the Porsche Taycan they used to set the record time is then? The title in their video even says prototype. So who knows how different that car is to the actual Taycan that can be bought by custumers. I don't see it being any different than Tesla using their Model S plaid prototype now. And it'll go into production I'm sure. The Dual Motor version did back then, and also the ludicrous version. So why not this plaid version now? Same for the pick-up and Semi, they will come. Question is just when since Elon Musk's timeline is quite long. ;)

Also take a look at this Porsche Taycan's tyres, the one they used for the record time. You sure these aren't cup tyres as well? Can't find any clear pictures from the side for any branding on those tyres. But the profile of these tyres doesn't seem like regular street tyres to me. If they're cup tyres then it's all fair for the Tesla Model S to use them as well.

2020-porsche-taycan-2_1600x0w.jpg
 
Firehuntah
And the Porsche Taycan they used to set the record time is then? The title in their video even says prototype. So who knows how different that car is to the actual Taycan that can be bought by custumers. I don't see it being any different than Tesla using their Model S plaid prototype now. And it'll go into production I'm sure. The Dual Motor version did back then, and also the ludicrous version. So why not this plaid version now? Same for the pick-up and Semi, they will come. Question is just when since Elon Musk's timeline is quite long. ;)

Also take a look at this Porsche Taycan's tyres, the one they used for the record time. You sure these aren't cup tyres as well? Can't find any clear pictures from the side for any branding on those tyres. But the profile of these tyres doesn't seem like regular street tyres to me. If they're cup tyres then it's all fair for the Tesla Model S to use them as well.
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I didn't say anything about the Taycan. I said despite Tesla's best efforts to cheat, it's not going to accomplish anything around the Ring. But yes, the Taycan's time is pretty meaningless too. Although the tires on that car aren't Sport Cup 2's. They look like either Sport 4S's or Super Sports, both tires that I could see Porsche offering on the Taycan and both of which are streetable. I even had Super Sports on my last Volvo.

And I don't believe Tesla can deliver on new models. It has a hard enough time delivering on what it has now because it's mismanaged and continues to allow Elon Musk to be an asshat. I had a bunch of Tesla stock because I believed in them at first, but I quickly saw that no one there understands how hard it is to run a car company, especially Musk. We've heard about the pick-up for what seems like a couple of years now and we were supposed to see it in October. Now it's November and I'll be surprised if it meets that date. I'll also be surprised if it delivers on the 500-mile range it's supposed to have.

Tesla, and by extension Musk, are really good at drumming up PR, but when it comes to delivering anything meaningful they miss the mark badly.
 
Joey D
It has a hard enough time delivering on what it has now because it's mismanaged and continues to allow Elon Musk to be an asshat.
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:lol:

Yeah. I know where your head is it at clearly. People like to criticize him over everything he does but in the end they're not in his shoes and their opinion really doesn't matter.
 
TexRex
You say that as though it's not absolutely going to result in that whether the record is beaten or not; there's always going to be something to qualify a loss. "Imagine how much faster it would be if it cost twice as much." "Pretty good for a disruptor."
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Indeed, but they'll be even more insufferable if Tesla succeeds.
As not particularly useful a metric as it is, a 'Ring time does strike me as something Porsche enthusiasts consider important. And I kind of get it, I guess, considering the motorsport history that the company has.
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But is it really likely that it's something Team Tesla cares about in the absence of the holdmybeerness of it all?
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No, they don't care at all, provided it's something Tesla can be arbitrarily "better" at.

If you said [manufacturer x] had come out with the world's best FlabberGibber, you can bet Musk would be tweeting within minutes of how they were already developing a FlabberGibber that was considerably more Flabber and Gibber, and the Twitter army would gleefully extol the virtues of Tesla's revolutionary new FlabberGibber and how much it would outperform [manufacturer x]'s FlabberGibber.

If you then told them the FlabberGibber was an entirely fabricated concept and not actually a real component of a car, they would then spend weeks mashing their keyboards to tell you that you're just a shill for legacy automakers, or shorting Tesla stock.
 
homeforsummer
Indeed, but they'll be even more insufferable if Tesla succeeds.

No, they don't care at all, provided it's something Tesla can be arbitrarily "better" at.

If you said [manufacturer x] had come out with the world's best FlabberGibber, you can bet Musk would be tweeting within minutes of how they were already developing a FlabberGibber that was considerably more Flabber and Gibber, and the Twitter army would gleefully extol the virtues of Tesla's revolutionary new FlabberGibber and how much it would outperform [manufacturer x]'s FlabberGibber.

If you then told them the FlabberGibber was an entirely fabricated concept and not actually a real component of a car, they would then spend weeks mashing their keyboards to tell you that you're just a shill for legacy automakers, or shorting Tesla stock.
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This is all absolutely spot on.

However, reading through this article this morning, it occurred to me that I don't think anyone could have ushered in electric cars without the kind of personality that Musk has - that relentless "us against the world" mentality has enabled Tesla (and the electric cars industry by extension) to actually survive against the crushing lobbying power of oil. It's not over yet, but can you imagine if Tesla didn't have a ravenous fanbase and a cultish leader? I don't think they would have made it this far. He has legions he can mobilize in the popularity war between Oil and Electrics.

Am I glad the electric car is here and viable? Yes. Absolutely.
Would it have been possible without Elon Musk? I'm inclined to think no.
Am I thankful for Elon Musk existing? Yes. Begrudgingly.
Do I hope that the electric car industry will continue to grow and Elon Musk will fade away? Please, God, yes.

edit: To put it another way:

The oil companies are the guy in the max-cab dually lifted diesel truck replete with twin Dixie battle flags "rolling coal" down your street every day, screaming "the earth is my trash can!" with static-x blaring in the background.

Tesla (and Musk) is the guy rolling down your street in complete silence, smugly and conspicuously leaning superior over you.

Both are irritating. One is way worse.
 
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