Matt atkins
(Banned)
- 302
- United Kingdom
That's it. I'm now officially done with GT7
- Thread starter mattikake
- 237 comments
- 31,015 views
- 36
- United States
- DarkLegions
I recently gave ACC a try because I was frustrated with the lack of modern gr3 cars, lack of functional bop, driving physics that make little sense (was practicing Porsche cup at Laguna and felt like the rear was on ice).
Really enjoying ACC so far, unfortunately has to be played on pc to get LFM daily races which are nice and latest updates. But I really like gt3 cars the most and driving on real tracks and this is that in spades, also bop is much better and I'm not driving on ice anymore.
Really enjoying ACC so far, unfortunately has to be played on pc to get LFM daily races which are nice and latest updates. But I really like gt3 cars the most and driving on real tracks and this is that in spades, also bop is much better and I'm not driving on ice anymore.
- 882
- Spain
Lol, OP you use braking markers and racing line markers? Really? Turn them off, they don't help you improve at all.
Also, the crash at the second corner was mostly your fault for leaving no space at all to the car right behind you, as if he was not there, braking right in front of him instead of keeping yourself more on the inside (dumb move, you're asking for collisions doing that). Then after that, you started to run wide and go off at several corners on your own... At that moment I stopped watching the video. Sorry but your lack of skill is not the game's fault.
Edit: I decided to watch the rest of the video and you definitely are not a novice nor slow driver, although you made several novice mistakes, and I dont get why the braking and racing line markers really... And anyway if the race had been finished it looked like the dutch driver had the win in the bag. The race looked like a two stopper (ever 6 laps) as optimal strategy and you supposedly needed to stop 3 times.
Also, the crash at the second corner was mostly your fault for leaving no space at all to the car right behind you, as if he was not there, braking right in front of him instead of keeping yourself more on the inside (dumb move, you're asking for collisions doing that). Then after that, you started to run wide and go off at several corners on your own... At that moment I stopped watching the video. Sorry but your lack of skill is not the game's fault.
Edit: I decided to watch the rest of the video and you definitely are not a novice nor slow driver, although you made several novice mistakes, and I dont get why the braking and racing line markers really... And anyway if the race had been finished it looked like the dutch driver had the win in the bag. The race looked like a two stopper (ever 6 laps) as optimal strategy and you supposedly needed to stop 3 times.
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- 3,899
- St.Pete, FL
- NotThePrez
- NotThePrez
It was literally stated in the OP that the markers and racing line were activated because the OP was unfamiliar with the track they were racing on. That is the intended use of those particular aids, after all.
Otherwise, good job at proving @Scaff 's earlier points.
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- 882
- Spain
Unfamiliar with the track? There's something called practice.
Doing a competitive event, an endurance championship, in an unfamiliar track, using those markers? I mean, wtf...
Also, which are scaff's earlier points?
- 3,899
- St.Pete, FL
- NotThePrez
- NotThePrez
The OP also mentioned in the first post (right under their video no less) that GT7s current issues didn't exactly motivate them to practice. Whether or not OPs choices in driver aids are valid is not the main discussion point of this thread.
If the competition allows it, and it helps a driver learn an unfamiliar track, then who cares?
Again though, not the topic at hand.
This bit right here:
Rather than discuss the actual topic at hand, that being GT7s horrendous servers and how they cause headaches for both casual players and more serious racers who want to do league racing, you decided, by your own initial admission, to watch a tiny bit of a 20 minute video and immediately went on to attack the OP and his driving ability, and continued to give them crap in your edit for using driver aids which, again, who cares?
Not only did you completely miss the target, you still proceeded to "white knight" GT7 in order to limit discussion of its issues.
- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Right! How dare they have fun! And with other people there too! Unbelievable!
If people want to use braking markers and racing lines they should keep it in the privacy of their own homes. Nobody wants to see that in public. Sickening.
- 2,302
- Germany
Do I maybe play different games with similar experiences? The gaming world is vastly more diverse than only GT7, so there may be a few games that just did what you say. But nevertheless I wouldnt consider it a pain as long as this specific crash would mean a loss in a team based game. As long as it is only my personal score that may or may not take a hit, I dont care and just play on - in the end I play to play, not play to gain.
Anyway: if your game crashes, either your hardware or software needs a correction, because it seems (not seeing much outcry on different sources) for the most part the game is actually running stable on this behalf.
- 882
- Spain
Yep the issue I see is that a supposedly serious competition allowed those aids.
Sorry but in the video I didn't see how was that the games fault. I mean there was a bit of lag, but I didnt see a major impact on the race and the lobby disconnection should be related to the connection of the lobby owner, I think? Since it uses the players connections
It's not about elitism, neither about having fun or not.
Those markers have two big problems
1) They don't really help you improve as a player/driver
2) They help causing collisions if drivers blindly follow the racing line and there are other cars around. They are not only useless but also counter productive.
I mean they're ok for learning a new track in offline mode, but after some practice you should turn them off, at the very least do so in the online races with others, as they are a bad thing, even dangerous, I think the game should not allow them at all in online lobbies.
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- 824
- United States
I haven’t looked to see how many total hours I’ve got, last I looked around 300, but I’ve played this game since day one only missing a total of 5 days where I haven’t played it at least long enough to get my daily roulette ticket and I’ve never once had it freeze up or crash, ever. Not even after weekend sessions where I’ll play for 3 hours straight.
There's always one...
Thanks for the analysis but as I explained, I didn't know the track at all. I had literally only done a few laps. Because it's fictional and very samey i figured in a 1 hour race I'd easily get lost. The line and braking markers don't hint where you can accelerate so i had to work this out which is why I ran off a couple of times. As you saw, after a few laps I had worked this out and was starting to set purple sectors so the assists did their job and I learned the track double time. As for stops, no practice means I was working this out on the fly and aiming for 15 mins per stint. It didn't matter because I was due to come 2nd in the championship anyway and, like many of us, I had lost all motivation to put effort in by this point... I also know that it's easier to drive by those assists than try and look at a track map when you have other people around you.
Funny about those assists - when we were doing a few practice laps and quali laps, despite being set on, the assists didn't work! I thought I was royally screwed for the race lol but they suddenly came back on at race start.
Also the guy who ran into the back of me - hard to judge your braking when you're guessing at corner entry speeds but the guy behind took it as his fault misjudging his own braking. (Probably my car lagging right in his face had something to do with it)
The rest of the races were all no assists. You can find them on my channel.
Btw the dutch guy is timmy pala and he's one of our resident GTS/7 aliens nearly always in the 50-100 laptimes on daily races and tt's. I'm about 30 years older than him so i don't expect to compete.
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- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
It is about elitism, because you're projecting what you feel to be correct for you with regards to assists as being absolutely true for everyone.
You might not find that to be the case. That's not true for everyone. Some people find it very easy to identify braking points and a racing line that are roughly correct just from looking at a track. Those people usually have lots of experience, but even some people with lots of experience find it hard.
Sometimes people would prefer to be given a basic set of braking points and racing lines (that they are pretty sure are going to be very conservative) and to develop their own feel for the track from there. There's nothing wrong with that. There's even a real life equivalent - if you go to a new track you could well decide to follow someone else around in a similar car and see their lines/braking points, or just get someone who knows the track in the car with you to point out where to go. There's nothing wrong with that, people can learn however they want to learn. Particularly if they have to learn in a hurry.
I suggest that you're blaming the wrong thing there. If someone is tunnel-visioning on the racing line to the point that they actually running into other people, they're not going to be aware of their surroundings whether it's there or not. You could as easily make the argument that if they need that much focus on the racing line to run at speed then without it they're going to be struggling even more and be even less likely to pay any attention to anything but the next corner and controlling their car.
Realistically, people who use the driving line regularly are probably more likely to cause collisions, but it's because people who use the driving line regularly are as a group less experienced and less capable of good car control. That doesn't mean that a good player can't use it to good effect on an unfamiliar track. If you threw me into a race on a track that I didn't know, I would want it on because every bit of information I could get would help me drive safer.
Should we be disabling TC and ABS as well? Maybe ban anyone who isn't playing with a DD wheel and load cell pedals?
Or maybe we could just let people play how they want to play? You don't want to use assists? Fine. But chill out on the negging other people for playing in ways that make them feel comfortable. It's this sort of ridiculous gatekeeping that gives sim racing the reputation for being an inaccessible bunch of snobs.
- 5,236
- United States
- rising_glass1
Well I'm gonna order my own copy of gt7 this week, I saw your video. Your driving skills are good, but people can be dirty especially when it comes to a championship. People will do devious things in order to claim the prize/trophy! Think of it as Nascar, there's rivalry going on 24/7 there, that's why I quit playing it.
You just gotta deal with the losses, at least you made an effort there,
You just gotta deal with the losses, at least you made an effort there,
I was not refering only to Gt planet..., in facebook and other social platforms this kind of mood its very present.
Those radical comments, im done with this or that dont seem to be construtive..
I understand and agree that we must complain to get improvements, this is true not only in game industry but in every aspect of our life has citizens and in society in general, that why i also mentioned that this section of the forum already have a locked post with the title "known issues".
I also mentioned and seems the OP knew that also, lobbys are not working correctly..., all people that play online and in private leagues on GT7 knows that.
If we know that why insist and be so negative about, until a fix its released the problem will persist.., will not be solved by itself.
Ps4 and PS5 have diferent operating systems, in terms of online experience all runs ok, dailys etc, the game have a proper ranking system wich is simple and works.
The only problem is in lobbys created by players, its seems we must give it time until a fix its released, for shure PD its working on it, dedicated servers probably could fix the issue ho knows.
To resume i was not trying to limit or shut down..., from what i read it seems the OP knew that the problem still persists, just posted cause if we know that the problems its there we will face the same issues over and over again, the solution its to avoid lobbys or use them in a limited way until a fix its out.
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- 2,302
- Germany
Just from a companies point of view and neither necessarily correct nor my personal oppinion:
- About 1200 players are currently (at the time of my post) in lobbies, spread about around 240 tracks, this means there is barely 5 players per track on average, luckily for the players it is more like half of the tracks are 1 players and the other half is a bit more populated
- About 31300 players have done sport mode daily race B (according to time trials), tracks will be started with as many players as possible according to the setup, which currently would mean 16 -> 1950 tracks
- about 10% of all players havent finished menubook 1 (trophies)
- about 2% of all players have finished more than 50 sport mode races (trophies)
- very rough estamtion that means there are 1.5 million players of which only 1.35 million did more than installing the game
- that means if the sport mode enthusiast are excloded from this number, there are roughly 1.3 million players playing the game
- that means lobbies is a minority issue, I dont see how dedicated servers would be justified, and other bugfixes are more important because it potentially affects a much larger portion of all players
- sports mode is something PD cares about for obvious reasons
I can tell you this, in my country with 10m in terms of population. There are private leagues and tournaments.
One league alone have near 200 drivers...
Imagine bigger countrys.
I really dunno if lobbys count for statistics for sport mode...
I can tell you also that most of the people i know dont race in dailys or the "FIA" format they only race in private lobbys/leagues.
Lobbys and online racing is what keep the game going for hardcore people...
They must fix this problem..., yes there are other bugs and other stuff that need atention.
PD its big enough to take those problems into account and solve them in short term...
I suggested dedicated servers cause sony can make good deals, its almost irrelevant for them in terms of costs..., but probably that aproach could solve the problem until they manage to fix the lobbys.
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Nice but irrelevant. Part of the game does not work, that you attempt to excuse this lack of functionality and importance by the number of players on it is also irrelevant. If you bought a car and found the radio didn't work, you would take it back to the dealer to get it fixed and you would expect it to be fixed. This is your consumer right. You wouldn't be expected to live with that fault.
In the UK (that Sony and PD are conveniently external to... and apparently computer games have some special dispensation that doesn't exist in any other industry) we have the sale of goods act. A product must be sold as advertised and must be fit for purpose. The games industry and their special treatment milk their apparent exclusion to the max.
It simply insults the consumer.
And as implied above, private leagues don't show up in public lobby statistics or your personal visibility because they are going to be set to private and friends only. Who knows what this actual figure is.
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- 858
- United Kingdom
- jonoholland29
- JonoH29
- 882
- Spain
Lol, really... Not being a noob =/= being an elitist.
A decent (not even good, but decent) racing driver has to learn how to take the corners, how to take proper lines, how be aware of all the braking points and all that... Otherwise, try something else
Driving games originailly didnt have all those begginer assists, people learnt how to drive anyway. In real life you dont have those lines, people learn anyway. Have you got drivers license?
TC and ABS are not a good example because it only affects each individual car, it does not have an impact on others.
Flawless logic.
Why do we make anything easier or better if someone has already done it without the new thing? ABS? Nah, people could brake without it. Safety barriers? Nah, most people managed not to die without those.
We are constantly striving to make things easier and more user friendly across society. There is nothing wrong with doing so, either in real life or a game. If it helps some people, it's worked. If you don't need it and can manage without it, makes no difference to you.
Did you go around telling other kids not to bother with stabilisers on their bike because you learned without them?
I'm pretty sure racing instructors around the world would love it if they could project driving lines and braking points around tracks when they teach people to race, but obviously it's not technically possible in the real world. They are proven to work well for many people.
- 882
- Spain
Safety barriers or ABS don't interfere with wheel to wheel racing, they're not the same thing.
Virtual marked racing lines have a big problem that you guys seem to ignore. There's not a single racing line when you got other cars around. Racing line should not be allowed in races, only when you are driving alone, pure common sense.
So they will help you only to a certain level, then there's a point where you need to get rid of them to improve further. A bit like learning to ride a bicycle using training wheels. Training wheels can work well but after some time practicing you gotta get rid of them.
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- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
No. It's just your attitude towards people who are learning or who choose to play differently than you that is elitist.
So you're saying that if people aren't good enough at taking corners, correct lines, braking points etc. they should go play something else.
Explain to me how that's not elitist. You're literally saying that people who aren't good enough shouldn't be allowed to play.
So? You could probably learn to play if the console jabbed a fork in your knee whenever you turned it on too, but it'd be a lot less fun. "Back in my day we had to do everything the hard way" isn't an argument that the old ways were better. It's just an argument that they're old.
Are you some sort of masochist that thinks that people need to be forced to do things in the most unpleasant way?
Lol. You don't have a racing line in "real life" driving, because you're not racing. But you do have lane markings, lines to show you where to stop, signs telling you which lane to be in and where to go. You have signs with suggested speed for corners, signs giving warning for bumps or hidden obstacles, signs for narrow roads and weird offramps and tunnels. And people still crash all the time, even with all that help and with years of experience.
In real life, there's stuff helping you drive safely and predictably everywhere.
Maybe it's different in Spain and y'all just drive around on plain black unmarked tarmac never hitting anyone. But I doubt it.
Sure. But you can still race with training wheels on if you want. And only jerks would suggest that people shouldn't have fun with their training wheel race and should stop racing their bicycle until they can do it "properly". Whatever "properly" means on a bicycle.
Seriously, I've never seen someone so bent on telling other people how they can and can't race. What's wrong with you driving your car however you want and letting other people drive however they're most comfortable?
They do, in a way. Instructors will put out cones at braking points, turn in, track out and apexes to help people learning to drive fast identify those points more easily.
If you go a little before where I've started the video, you'll see the instructors explaining turn in, apex, and track out. You then see in the driving example that they've marked these three key points with cones. A line might help, but it's not super necessary when the driver can just head for the next cone down the road.
I prefer the cone marking layout to a racing line personally as it makes learners keep their eyes up and looking further down the track, but they serve a similar purpose - give the inexperienced driver some guidance and reference points for the line they should be taking around the track. Learners will tend to tunnel vision on these aids, but that's okay. They're still learning to control the car, and if you're not in control then nothing else matters.
Distance boards to a corner serve a similar purpose but for a range of cars, and they allow a driver to quickly and reliably identify a braking point and turn in. Those are used in race up to and including the very highest levels of motorsport. They're a more advanced tool, but they're still a driving aid. They're just one that is so common that nobody really thinks about it any more.
- 882
- Spain
Nah, playing with racing lines off and encouraging people to do so is not elitist, no matter how much you repeat it. LOL.
I'm not talking about stop signs, and lane lines, but braking points. It is obvious you dont have a racing line in a normal road. And you can still go to a track IRL where you dont have the racing line. And go to a karting track. Lots of things.
The instruction video above is not in a race, but a free practice.
You don't seem to understand your skill improves a lot when you get out of that basic comfort zone and put yourself in some "pain". Little babies learn tor walk by falling down many times in the process, and they will never learn properly if you keep them in the toddler chair.
Look, I could not care less if you or others keep on with the bad habits, I can always go to lobbies that have those banned, but they're still "drug" aids that prevent people from becoming better and you or anyone should take it as a proper advice instead of pedantically opposing it.
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- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Mate, you're the one telling people they shouldn't be allowed to play the game if they're not good enough. You're not encouraging, you want to kick out people who don't meet your standards. We can all see what you said, don't try and pretend that you're just trying to help people out now.
Are the markings on the road not there to help people? There's all sorts of stuff on the road that's absolutely intended in the same manner as brake markers and a racing line in a racing game. They're there to help people drive safely and predictably.
Or are you just trying to make the goalposts so narrow that you can claim a win? In which case, congratulations. There are no literal flashing red lines on the road that mean "brake with maximum force here".
I understand perfectly well. But it's my choice if I want to put myself through that. If people are comfortable learning more slowly through less "painful" means, I personally don't have a problem with that. People can learn however they want to learn, or even not learn at all if that's what they want.
You for some reason seem to find it objectionable if other people choose to learn differently to you. As if there were some magical optimal learning method that applies to everyone the same, and you being the special boy managed to figure it out and now you're here to share your wisdom with us all.
Forgive me if I don't faint before your greatness.
Sure, but they don't have to be hurt in the process. You let them fall on their bum when they're toddling around because it doesn't hurt them - they're only about six inches off the ground to start with and they're probably wearing a nappy. You don't let them learn how to use stairs by letting them tumble down them until they figure it out. That would be horrific.
You seem very focused on pain as a learning mechanism. That's pretty messed up. I hope it isn't a reflection of how you learned as a child, because that would be sad. And I really hope you don't inflict this method of learning on children of your own, because that would be cruel.
People get hurt sometimes, but it's not necessary at all in order to learn.
You're going to compare driving assists to drugs now? Are you for real?
It's a game, bro. Chill out. It's just for fun.
Assists don't stop people getting better. People stop themselves getting better because they don't care to. Which it should be pointed out, is absolutely fine. People don't have to be constantly grinding to be the best. It's okay to just drive the fun car game casually and enjoy it, with whatever assistance makes that fun for you.
If they want to get better and start learning more about sim racing then there's ten thousand articles on beginner tips for sim racing that suggest turning off the racing line and braking assist, but there's no need to force people down that path if they don't want to. It's okay for it just to be a fun game that they play with assists, and they're mediocre at it but they enjoy themselves.
I don't see why you have this deep need for everyone else to be improving themselves and taking the fun car game super seriously at all times, nor your need for them to do it in the most painful way possible. Advice is one thing, but you're not giving advice and nobody asked for it. You're advocating for people being locked out of playing online unless they meet your standards.
Until you realise that everyone who plays Gran Turismo is not in fact a carbon copy of you, and worse they don't want to be, I think you're going to struggle with this.
Your elitism is clear when you conveniently miss the point that these aids were only on because I didn't know the track, not because I can't drive (and as someone who has set top 10 stars laps before, I guarantee, I can drive). But rather than absorb this point you decided to go on crusade of irrelevant generalisations.
