The American Revolution

[gogatrs]

OK, first off, I want to say that I'm American.
I live in New England where most of our revolution was fought way back in the day.
I am proud of my country for just about everything EXCEPT our cars. (Let's stay on topic, don't dwell on this please)

I myself am proud that we were able to break away from the British rule. You have to admit, the king was treating us unfairly.

But I'd like to hear the opinion of some of you guys from across the Atlantic.
What do you say UKers?
How do they teach the American Revolution in your schools?
Do they teach about it at all?

Not trying to start a third world war, just want to discuss this.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

If I can say anything, it's all because of the taxes imposed on the colonists in the 1760's. (Stamp, Sugar, Navigation, Townsend, Tea, etc.)

And we had George Washington behind us. He's one of the most prolific (of not the most) in American history. From the death of French diplomat Jumovel (whom Washington didn't kill, but his leading Indian ally did, in a horrific act of splitting his skull and washing his hands in Jumovel's brains) to the defeat at Fort Necessity, he used this to become smarter in war terms, which helped him lead the Continental Army to victory. And with him, we defeated the then-largest armed force in the world. Miracle? Yes.

I still don't like America, but it is true that Washington "was first in times or peace, first in times of war, and first in the hearts of the countrymen."

 

[Bigbazz]

I'm from the UK, I do not recall being taught about these events in history lessons, though I stopped studying history as part of my subject choices when I was 14, so no history classes for the last 4 years of school. The history I do remember learning was mostly about World War I and World War II, the victorians and the tudors, the black plague, the battle of hastings, the roman empire. It was over 10 years ago so I don't remember too well.

As for the King, I have no idea, never met the bloke ^^.

 

[Jay]

Not the UK but for reference schools in Australia teach nothing of the Revolutionary (or Civil) war either.

However I have done a fair amount of my own research on the Revolutionary and Civil Wars as I find them quite interesting.

I am curious how unfairly the King was treating the colonies, you mean just from the newely introduced taxes (with attempt to enforce with force)? Or was their other factors I have forgotten about?

 

[DK]

In Ireland we learn about the American Revolution along with the French one of the 1780s and the failed 1798 Irish Rebellion as part of our Junior Certificate course (which I did last year).

 

[wfooshee]

Not the UK but for reference schools in Australia teach nothing of the Revolutionary (or Civil) war either.

However I have done a fair amount of my own research on the Revolutionary and Civil Wars as I find them quite interesting.

I am curious how unfairly the King was treating the colonies, you mean just from the newely introduced taxes (with attempt to enforce with force)? Or was their other factors I have forgotten about?

Severely simplified: the colonies had no representation in Parliament, yet every time they turned around something else was being taxed, or an existing tax was raised. Since they had no recourse with the crown or the government through the channels regular home citizens had, the colonists decided to do what it took to be self-governing.

 

[Danoff]

Taxation without representation.

Ironically, we do that to ourselves now.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Taxation without representation.

Ironically, we do that to ourselves now.

Separation from 'church and state' was secondary. Starting to do that now, too. Scary.

 

[Stevisiov]

We weren't taught about the American Revolution, in fact I seem to recall we barely looked at the British Empire as it was when it spanned 25% of the globe. I don't think much of the history we were taught, thankfully there are quite a few decent historical documentaries around these days.

One thing I did learn from history, the British were generally the bad guys.

 

[Keef]

One thing I did learn from history, the British were generally the bad guys.

Did they actually teach this or did you learn it yourself?

I'm very surprised that a lot of time isn't spent on the American Revolution over there. Though it isn't the brightest spot in British history, it would be an excellent lesson on what not to do. Learning what not to do and seeing examples of it is probably the most important history lesson of all. By skipping over stuff like that students aren't learning what they need to learn. That's a complaint I have about our public schools. We learn about all sorts of events, but it's taught in a way that makes the US always seem like the good guy, which often is not the case.

 

[icelt]

Well for those who want a quick insight into what us colonists were so peeved about, there's no better source than the good ole Declaration of Independence penned, primarily, by Thomas Jefferson. The first two paragraphs just about say it all:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/doi/text.html

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
....

 

[Famine]

I'm very surprised that a lot of time isn't spent on the American Revolution over there.

It's not that a lot of time isn't spent on it... more that no time at all is.

It's a turning point in US history. It's not regarded as an anything point of British history - our kids are taught, in this order, the Greeks, the Romans, the Norman Conquest, the Civil War, the Victorians and the World Wars. And that's if the kids keep history as a subject past Year 8.

 

[Nielg5]

It's not that a lot of time isn't spent on it... more that no time at all is.

It's a turning point in US history. It's not regarded as an anything point of British history - our kids are taught, in this order, the Greeks, the Romans, the Norman Conquest, the Civil War, the Victorians and the World Wars. And that's if the kids keep history as a subject past Year 8.

This is so true my history lessons are so boring I would love to learn about the British colony or the american revolution

I think USA is the country they are today thanks to us! But the US are also a country made from imigration which is also why they are great

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Well for those who want a quick insight into what us colonists were so peeved about, there's no better source than the good ole Declaration of Independence penned, primarily, by Thomas Jefferson. The first two paragraphs just about say it all:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/doi/text.html

George Carlin said it best

"...Its an old american standard, say one thing, do something different. This country was founded on a very simplet double standard. This country was founded by a group of land-owning slave owners who wanted to be free. And they also suggested that they be the only ones allowed to vote. That is whats known and be stunningly and embarrassingly full of 🤬 "



All men may have been created equal; they just werent viewed equally till well after emancipation.

 

[icelt]

All men may have been created equal; they just werent viewed equally till well after emancipation.

I won't disagree with that. However it is still a fantastic expression of values, even if those that thought them up were alot less than perfect.

In addition all humans still aren't viewed as equal in this country. Still alot of work left to do there.

 

[Stevisiov]

Did they actually teach this or did you learn it yourself?

I'm very surprised that a lot of time isn't spent on the American Revolution over there. Though it isn't the brightest spot in British history, it would be an excellent lesson on what not to do. Learning what not to do and seeing examples of it is probably the most important history lesson of all. By skipping over stuff like that students aren't learning what they need to learn. That's a complaint I have about our public schools. We learn about all sorts of events, but it's taught in a way that makes the US always seem like the good guy, which often is not the case.

I think the problem is that the British were involved in so many wars and conflicts, that at least for the British, it just represents yet another battle, and a lost battle at that. This obviously makes it of less cultural significance than it ever could be viewed in America, given it pretty much laid the foundations for the US as it is today.

Our History (as Famine has listed) pretty much focuses on Europe and follows chronologically forward to the world wars where it becomes a little more international, but still largely looking at Europe due to the nature of the conflict.

I would imagine History in the US is a either a lot more recent, or a bit more world based, after all The US is a relatively new country.

 

[Keef]

I would imagine History in the US is a either a lot more recent, or a bit more world based, after all The US is a relatively new country.

Here there are typically two different categories with various classes within them. We'll take world history and American history, the former being much less detailed with way fewer guns and explosions. Kids tend to prefer American history, where we always win the war and every country is better off for us having blown their heads off. Also the Federal Reserve makes life possible, and if it weren't for the New Deal the entire world would have collapsed by now.

 

[Pupik]

And that's if the kids keep history as a subject past Year 8.

See, that's interesting...Throughout my schooling "History" is taught in small bits and pieces until around 4th Grade, where you usually take a multitude of required courses: A State history course, followed by a basic U.S. history course the next year. Then World History in 6th grade, Geography in 7th (sort of like World History-lite), U.S. History in 8th. Freshman year was World History once more, Sophomore year was Economics and Civics, Junior year was U.S. History (again), and our Senior year was an optional Contemporary History (post-WWII world history) class that wasn't actually required (to be honest, half of it was going over the newspaper and other news-of-the-day). College even required a single History of Civilization course for everyone, regardless of major (many topics on world history again, which sort of stopped around 1900 or so).

So we get the History thing pounded into our heads for many years, sort of like taking most Algebra courses, it just goes a bit deeper each year; funny how I never took too much interest in History until after it was no longer required.

 

[Stevisiov]

So we get the History thing pounded into our heads for many years, sort of like taking most Algebra courses, it just goes a bit deeper each year; funny how I never took too much interest in History until after it was no longer required.

Indeed, for me that's true of just about every subject. Except drama, I still couldn't give a damn about drama.

 

[BobK]

In grade school history was, for me, pretty much a date memorization course, not going into how or why things happened, just when they happened. When I got to high school I had already come to despise the subject and didn't really apply myself to learn what was being taught, nor had the presentation improved much. So I took the bare minimum number of courses required to graduate. It was only later that I discovered that history can, in fact, be a fascinating subject. By no coincidence this paralleled my growing interest in wargaming.

In any case, I wouldn't expect that people outside the US learn much more about US history including the American Revolution as we did about, say, the War of the Roses, that is to say, not much if anything at all.

 

[Max Powers]

For me it was US history and geography until 6th grade or so. Then Ancient Civilization, then Western Civilization. Besides that, I definitely took a world history course in high school, but that one was more modern, and I seem to remember a lot of focus on the Middle East and Africa, There was another US history course in high school as well.

I find it interesting that we're the only ones who learn about the American Revolution as we spent a lot of time focusing on the French Revolution here. Also, I seem to remember spending a ton of time on Vietnam, so we do learn about our country's failed military conquests too.

 

[Joel]

Funny, here in Canada we learn about how America kicks ass and chews bubble gum too. We didn't go into specifics about the New Deal, but it was implied that it "saved America" or something along those lines.

Most of my history classes (elementary) have been about confederation of Canada, the war of 1812, Native Canadians, and the whole process of Europeans colonizing Canada. In high school, we learn about WWI to present day history. We learn about how Canada was always a super badass army in both World Wars, and how after WWII we were peacekeeping white knights who could do no wrong, unlike those war mongering Americans.

 

[Keef]

...so we do learn about our country's failed military conquests too.

But they're not taught in a way that exemplifies the failure. For all the learning about the Constitution, it is never related to other things, such as the many interventionist wars we've fought throughout our history. It's taught in a way that makes us look like the good guys in ever case, when that actually is not the case in most examples.

That's why I'm surrounded by idiots in my daily life, because the American history everybody learned in school was clear as mud, and about as detailed.

 

[Omnis]

These colors don't run.

 

[Azuremen]

It's a turning point in US history. It's not regarded as an anything point of British history - our kids are taught, in this order, the Greeks, the Romans, the Norman Conquest, the Civil War, the Victorians and the World Wars. And that's if the kids keep history as a subject past Year 8.

I find it kind of depressing they can just stop history after year 8. 4 years in high school were required for my school, so history all the way up till I went college, where I took more history. Though I think a huge problem is a lot of people seem to be taught with that "remember this date, you will be tested on it" format, rather than the cause and effect, which is far more interesting.

Honestly, my knowledge of US history is limited as I spent most of my time in college history classes looking at ancient history and the development of the Middle East and Islam. Not a big fan of FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, or even Lincoln (though he was brilliant politically), And it is interesting to note how we started to emulate the British after a time, with Panama, Cuba, Guam, and Hawai'i.

And you Brits should learn more about the US, cause we kick ass and chew bubble gum and you better know it

 

[terminator363]

Well hear in Canada when I studied this it was hardly bias (I think) because our text books tried showing different points of view (England & Colonists). This colonists did slightly betray England but that had reason as England made the colonist's lives difficult. It is impressive to see that the colonists achieved such a feat. While as you look through England's point of view, think about how you would feel if you were them. It's also interesting how much time we spent learning this even though we are not American. But it was a part of the teaching program which lead us to the founding of Canada then the French Revolution which I enjoyed.

 

[Keef]

And you Brits should learn more about the US, cause we kick ass and chew bubble gum and you better know it

Betcher ass we do. We chew so much bubble gum we name it after dip and let kids have it, and make rolls of gum inspired by duct tape. Yeah, we invented that too.

 

[Natino64]

I live in Ireland. They teach about how America was colonised by the English, but not how you guys got your freedom. They do teach about how the South of Ireland got it's independence from Britain though. But the North of Ireland, where I live, still kneels to the British empire sadly.

13 years ago, after 30 years of bloodshed in the North, a peace agreement between Irish rebels (The IRA; Irish Republican Army) and the British army and government, was reached. Just to note, the IRA was THE guerrilla warfare group of it's time. If it was pitched against the Taliban today, the IRA would demolish them. No joke. Look up IRA vs Taliban on google, there's a very interesting and informative video about the 2 groups and how they compare. The IRA ends up beating the Taliban in a war simulation they set up.

Anyway, for a few years, the peace agreement saw Ireland become a peaceful, stable country to live in. It was wonderful. no troops on the street, no more checkpoints, no more bomb scares, it was great.

It wasn't to last though. In 2009, there was a MASSIVE spike in bomb alerts and security threats. Then, for the first time in 12 years, war showed it's aggression once more.

In 24 hours, 2 soldiers were killed, and a policeman shot through the head by a sniper.

I couldn't believe it. After so many years of peace, it started happening again. Splinter groups of the IRA, (The 3 main ones are the CIRA; Continuity Irish republican army--the RIRA; Real Irish Republican Army -- ONH - Oglaigh Na Heireann, {Irish for: Soldiers of Ireland} ) had broken the peace agreement, and declared war once again.

Let me give you a few examples within the last month of how this new war has affected my life:

When me and the family were driving through the country to go to a relatives house, there was a rebel / militant checkpoint up the road, so we had to turn back.

I had to be evacuated from school because of bomb scare.

A policeman was killed by a car bomb this week.

A 500lb bomb was found in a van by army bomb experts over the weekend, they said it was intended to go off at a busy city centre.

While going to church this morning, where there should be a happy, religious atmosphere, there was an army unit parked by the gate; soldiers checking us as we went in. Brandishing rifles. Children were asking what was going on, they didn't need to see this.

And summers coming up as well. 12th July. Commemorating British success in Ireland. Me and my friend always go down to the south of Ireland to avoid the riots. Last year was horrible.

Such Is life I guess.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

It's a funny link between the U.S. and the U.K.

Over there you don't hear much about your loss in the American Revolution, just as much as we don't here about Vietnam. (to be fair, we get a lot about Vietnam, but in the wrong way. Our systems try really hard to keep the "kick ass and chew bubble gum motif")

It's also funny how the U.K. was a nation all up in everyone's business back then, kind of how the U.S. is today. Shoving their noses where it doesn't belong.

It's awfully depressing the kids over there don't learn more about history. My teacher said it straight once, "People will be more interested if you know facts about history than algebraic functions."

I also don't get how you can just stop learning history. History is the most important subject. All the others (language arts, mathematics, science) focus on a specific sector of our world used by certain people who use it for job criteria. Should I know why the Niagara Falls receded 7.5mi due to erosion causing shale to undermine the more resilient dolomite? No. But should I know about the past, present, and future of my world? Yes.

And in fact, it all falls back on history. Advances in science are a historic moment. But do historic moments advance science? Nope.

I also am more challenged when history isn't just dates. Our world is so much more than "1946".

 

[gogatrs]

I live in Ireland. They teach about how America was colonised by the English, but not how you guys got your freedom. They do teach about how the South of Ireland got it's independence from Britain though. But the North of Ireland, where I live, still kneels to the British empire sadly.

13 years ago, after 30 years of bloodshed in the North, a peace agreement between Irish rebels (The IRA; Irish Republican Army) and the British army and government, was reached. Just to note, the IRA was THE guerrilla warfare group of it's time. If it was pitched against the Taliban today, the IRA would demolish them. No joke. Look up IRA vs Taliban on google, there's a very interesting and informative video about the 2 groups and how they compare. The IRA ends up beating the Taliban in a war simulation they set up.

Anyway, for a few years, the peace agreement saw Ireland become a peaceful, stable country to live in. It was wonderful. no troops on the street, no more checkpoints, no more bomb scares, it was great.

It wasn't to last though. In 2009, there was a MASSIVE spike in bomb alerts and security threats. Then, for the first time in 12 years, war showed it's aggression once more.

In 24 hours, 2 soldiers were killed, and a policeman shot through the head by a sniper.

I couldn't believe it. After so many years of peace, it started happening again. Splinter groups of the IRA, (The 3 main ones are the CIRA; Continuity Irish republican army--the RIRA; Real Irish Republican Army -- ONH - Oglaigh Na Heireann, {Irish for: Soldiers of Ireland} ) had broken the peace agreement, and declared war once again.

Let me give you a few examples within the last month of how this new war has affected my life:

When me and the family were driving through the country to go to a relatives house, there was a rebel / militant checkpoint up the road, so we had to turn back.

I had to be evacuated from school because of bomb scare.

A policeman was killed by a car bomb this week.

A 500lb bomb was found in a van by army bomb experts over the weekend, they said it was intended to go off at a busy city centre.

While going to church this morning, where there should be a happy, religious atmosphere, there was an army unit parked by the gate; soldiers checking us as we went in. Brandishing rifles. Children were asking what was going on, they didn't need to see this.

And summers coming up as well. 12th July. Commemorating British success in Ireland. Me and my friend always go down to the south of Ireland to avoid the riots. Last year was horrible.

Such Is life I guess.

Being in the US, I have never heard of that war.
Then again, it's a war that we aren't involved in, and therefore we don't give a damn.

Ah well, back to chewing bubble gum and kicking ass now that I've been enlightened.