The artificial scarcity in this game is kinda absurd.

[adam46]

The key difference between the two used dealerships in GT7, versus what we have seen previously, is the lack of stock turnover.

On GT4, for instance, I could check the used dealership after every championship, and see plenty of different cars because numerous in-game days had passed while I was racing.

Having the dealership change - so far as I can tell - once every actual day is strange, especially as only one or two cars seem to rotate out. It means that something like a third of the car list is locked away at any given moment.

That, combined with the crippling lack of big money races, no ability to sell cars, etc. makes the in-game market wildly unwelcoming compared to the older GTs.

I feel I have to end every post by stating that I truly am loving this game as an experience. But, there are some real, glaring issues that need resolution pronto.

 

[ShiftingGears]

The point is GT4 had it, it had unicorns, you can't deny it.

What did I deny?

It's always been there. Whether you want to get them or not, It's nothing new under the sun.

But it hasn't, I just gave you examples highlighting that they didn't exist in the same degree at all in the first three games of the series.

Personally I prefer they take the GTA Online route here - have them always available, but have periods where they are discounted.

 

[Lord Protector]

I don’t think earning 100K every 4 minutes is that slow.

 

[Rich S]

I don't mind working through a solid GT single player, that's what GT is about originally if your over age 30 and played the original.

My problem is vehicle scarcity, 1 Tesla in game is that right??? Anyways I'd love to see more cars and trucks. So far it's actually seeming dry in content but GT historic standards....

 

[Samcastor]

All game economies have artificial scarcity. I am sure that is not the answer you're looking for though. It is clear that PD wants you to come in and play the game over a long time compared to other singleplayer games where you can blitz through everything and get all things within the first week. So yes, they have made these things scarce to make this a game you keep revisiting for a longer time. I am not bothered by it as I was going to do that either way but if you wanted to get everything quick and move on, you should either make your peace with not owning everything in game or play the game at its own pace over longer time.

 

[wheelhp]

What did I deny?



But it hasn't, I just gave you examples highlighting that they didn't exist at all in the first three games of the series.

Personally I prefer they take the GTA Online route here - have them always available, but have periods where they are discounted.

It's always been there in regards to GT4 specifically, Just wanted to correct you on that, having not played the first 2 GT titles properly, I can't comment on that front and that was not my point anywho. In my Experience... GT4 is by far the one people remember and talk about to this day. Which is why GT7 takes inspiration from it with the menu design, missions, GT Auto etc. I drew the link with GT4 and GT7, don't care about the first three titles

Your suggestions on GTA Online's discounts coming to GT7 sounds like a good idea to me but I'd imagine some would also whinge about that.

 

[JDMKING13]

I don’t think earning 100K every 4 minutes is that slow.

I am truly complex by that also.. I haven’t done my money races yet as am just going through the game.. but if I wanted to make good money quickly it’s extremely easy as you said!

 

[HyperSpeeder]

The Gran Turismo type of careers are my favorite, ever since the first one I experienced (which was NOT Gran Turismo!). Grind money, buy a car, build it, test it, fine tune it, move onto something else, and so on. GT7 has such a career and is IMO better for it.

People always point to realism in defense of certain aspects of the game, well the UCD is not realistic at all. What kinda used car dealer only has 20 cars in stock at any one time? There should be hundreds of cars available, all different combos of colours and milage/condition.

Depends on the dealer. I've seen dealers with less than 15 cars in the showroom.

 

[s0cks]

All game economies have artificial scarcity. I am sure that is not the answer you're looking for though. It is clear that PD wants you to come in and play the game over a long time compared to other singleplayer games where you can blitz through everything and get all things within the first week. So yes, they have made these things scarce to make this a game you keep revisiting for a longer time. I am not bothered by it as I was going to do that either way but if you wanted to get everything quick and move on, you should either make your peace with not owning everything in game or play the game at its own pace over longer time.

I don't necessarily want to own everything. I love vintage cars though and most of those are rediculously expensive. So I bought a $100 game to race cars that PD have done a fantastic job of recreating only to find that I basically won't be able to race them unless I shell out more money or dedicate a heap of time I don't have.

I can't even race them in an arcade mode, which would do nothing to spoil the collector mode for those who want it to be that way.

It's absurd. And I'm genuinely surprised how many people defend it.

Not only that, but you can win expensive cars by random chance on roulette. So when people say its all about the hard work and sense of progression to get good cars, well that's not really true either if you can win them in a game of luck too.

Maybe I'm just too old for expecting to at least have an option to drive the cars that are available in said car game.

I don’t think earning 100K every 4 minutes is that slow.

Only if you grind a small handful of high paying races and get a clean race. I don't think 10hrs of this type of grinding to buy some of the expensive legendary cars is that quick personally. Good enough for the cheaper road cars though, I suppose.

 

[wheelhp]

I don't necessarily want to own everything. I love vintage cars though and most of those are rediculously expensive. So I bought a $100 game to race cars that PD have done a fantastic job of recreating only to find that I basically won't be able to race them unless I shell out more money or dedicate a heap of time I don't have.

I can't even race them in an arcade mode, which would do nothing to spoil the collector mode for those who want it to be that way.

It's absurd. And I'm genuinely surprised how many people defend it.

Not only that, but you can win expensive cars by random chance on roulette. So when people say its all about the hard work and sense of progression to get good cars, well that's not really true either if you can win them in a game of luck too.

Maybe I'm just too old for expecting to at least have an option to drive the cars that are available in said car game.

I'll say it wouldn't hurt to have an arcade mode avaliable where you can just take any car and drive on any track. The difference being you couldn't customize or "own" them like in the Main game and couldn't take them to online lobbies. But you could still select the car colour, assists and tyres before you drive. Kinda like how GT4/5 did it, or something like that but better.

Another benefit being you can use this Arcade mode to test out a car before you buy it in the main game. From past GT games, there's Nothing worse than buying a car and realizing it sounds dreadful or isn't all it's cracked up to be

 

[sejtur]

I'll say it wouldn't hurt to have an arcade mode avaliable where you can just take any car and drive on any track. The difference being you couldn't customize or "own" them like in the Main game and couldn't take them to online lobbies. But you could still select the car colour, assists and tyres before you drive. Kinda like how GT4/5 did it, or something like that but better.

Another benefit being you can use this Arcade mode to test out a car before you buy it in the main game. From past GT games, there's Nothing worse than buying a car and realizing it sounds dreadful or isn't all it's cracked up to be

No, that would hurt the whole career mode. Part of the joy is getting to drive a car that you really earned.

 

[wheelhp]

No, that would hurt the whole career mode. Part of the joy is getting to drive a car that you really earned.

I disagree mostly. But I see you directly disagree with s0cks. LOL, let the flames begin!!!!

 

[Barracuda413]

a test drive feature would be a nice addition
try it before you buy it, heck even real dealers have that

 

[s0cks]

No, that would hurt the whole career mode. Part of the joy is getting to drive a car that you really earned.

They had better remove the cars from the roulette wheel too then, not to mention the prize cars.

 

[wheelhp]

a test drive feature would be a nice addition
try it before you buy it, heck even real dealers have that

IIRC GT5 had a demo feature, but the AI would drive it for you, lol. That game did a lot of things right compared to GT6

 

[Acid X]

I don't necessarily want to own everything. I love vintage cars though and most of those are rediculously expensive. So I bought a $100 game to race cars that PD have done a fantastic job of recreating only to find that I basically won't be able to race them unless I shell out more money or dedicate a heap of time I don't have.

I can't even race them in an arcade mode, which would do nothing to spoil the collector mode for those who want it to be that way.

It's absurd. And I'm genuinely surprised how many people defend it.

Not only that, but you can win expensive cars by random chance on roulette. So when people say its all about the hard work and sense of progression to get good cars, well that's not really true either if you can win them in a game of luck too.

Maybe I'm just too old for expecting to at least have an option to drive the cars that are available in said car game.


Only if you grind a small handful of high paying races and get a clean race. I don't think 10hrs of this type of grinding to buy some of the expensive legendary cars is that quick personally. Good enough for the cheaper road cars though, I suppose.

Another benefit being you can use this Arcade mode to test out a car before you buy it in the main game. From past GT games, there's Nothing worse than buying a car and realizing it sounds dreadful or isn't all it's cracked up to be

Honestly, @s0cks, it sounds like this is your first real GT game. Did you start off with Sport? Gran Turismo has always had this same schema of play outside of Sport. Its unfortunate that you're low on time, but nobody is forcing you to buy credits at all. It really is quite easy to make money in the game, albeit it would take some time to make 20 million. The draw of the game is the car collection and its uniqueness and with that comes the standard GT-style career mode and prize cars/lucky wins.

If you purchased this game because you thought it was going to be GT Sport 2.0, then that's a mistake as it has been advertised for a long time that the game is going to have an established career mode and be a true-GT successor.

Throwing it back, @wheelhp makes a good point about an arcade mode. GT has had some sort of arcade mode in the past, but the car selections were limited. This is also normally where you find 2 player mode as well.

If PD acts in a way as they have in the past, I'm sure they will hear the community at large and find a way to appease all manners of players, including you. But, for now, you're on the same boat as the rest of us who have limited time and have to spare some hours here and again to grind our way to the cars that we want.

This is the Gran Turismo way.

 

[SuperSportX]

The key difference between the two used dealerships in GT7, versus what we have seen previously, is the lack of stock turnover.

On GT4, for instance, I could check the used dealership after every championship, and see plenty of different cars because numerous in-game days had passed while I was racing.

Having the dealership change - so far as I can tell - once every actual day is strange, especially as only one or two cars seem to rotate out. It means that something like a third of the car list is locked away at any given moment.

That, combined with the crippling lack of big money races, no ability to sell cars, etc. makes the in-game market wildly unwelcoming compared to the older GTs.

I feel I have to end every post by stating that I truly am loving this game as an experience. But, there are some real, glaring issues that need resolution pronto.

The way it's setup now is really bad, imagine there's a specific car you've been wanting and for some reason you may not be able to play the game for that week/day now you missed the car and have to wait pretty much a few months to a year for it to return.

I'm really curious to see how PD will deal with this via updates when they eventually add new 'Legendary' cars. With the way it's currently setup it would be horrible to have to wait for new dlc cars to showup.

 

[s0cks]

Honestly, @s0cks, it sounds like this is your first real GT game. Did you start off with Sport? Gran Turismo has always had this same schema of play outside of Sport. Its unfortunate that you're low on time, but nobody is forcing you to buy credits at all. It really is quite easy to make money in the game, albeit it would take some time to make 20 million. The draw of the game is the car collection and its uniqueness and with that comes the standard GT-style career mode and prize cars/lucky wins.

If you purchased this game because you thought it was going to be GT Sport 2.0, then that's a mistake as it has been advertised for a long time that the game is going to have an established career mode and be a true-GT successor.

Throwing it back, @wheelhp makes a good point about an arcade mode. GT has had some sort of arcade mode in the past, but the car selections were limited. This is also normally where you find 2 player mode as well.

If PD acts in a way as they have in the past, I'm sure they will hear the community at large and find a way to appease all manners of players, including you. But, for now, you're on the same boat as the rest of us who have limited time and have to spare some hours here and again to grind our way to the cars that we want.

This is the Gran Turismo way.

Yup, you're right. It's my first numbered GT. I honestly don't mind the idea of a long labour of love for progression in a campaign type mode. Absolutely no problem with that (though I think some of the high 7 or 8 figure asking prices are little too much). The fact I can't actually race these cars without doing that is what I mostly find absurd. If the older GT games were like that, then I'd have complained in the same way too.

But, aside from that, even with a slow progression, I still don't like the artificial limits on certain cars. Like limited stock and invitations. To me that's just hiding content behind an RNG regardless of how many credits I have and has nothing to do wit hard earned progress.

And of course, the roulette wheel is just a joke, but at least I don't seem to be alone on that one. Quite a few seem to be complaining about it.

 

[Sage Ages]

Money is fine as is.

I don't mind the scarcity of upgrade parts but there's not enough opportunities to roll for them. Roulette tickets are way too infrequent for the amount of items that are locked behind it.

The used car dealership is annoyingly slow. I was hoping it would work like GT5 where there was dealership that rotated each race and an online dealer that rotated weakly but sadly that's not the case.

 

[s0cks]

Money is fine as is.

I don't mind the scarcity of upgrade parts but there's not enough opportunities to roll for them. Roulette tickets are way too infrequent for the amount of items that are locked behind it.

The used car dealership is annoyingly slow. I was hoping it would work like GT5 where there was dealership that rotated each race and an online dealer that rotated weakly but sadly that's not the case.

Apparently it speeds up it's rotations once you finish the Menu's. I think I read every 3 races.

 

[Keef]

I don’t think earning 100K every 4 minutes is that slow.

It isn't, but grinding at all shouldn't be necessarily. With current payouts and legendary prices, if a player 100% the career mode and then just does Daily Races and multiplayer like we all did in GTS, it would still take years to earn enough for legendary cars. And then if the Daily Races all require tuning the legendary cars are pointless because half of them are race cars and the other half are 50 year old buckets. The only "grind" we should have to do are the Daily Races themselves.

 

[Sage Ages]

It's not like the late game payouts are bad. You can definitely hop around between events.

 

[IcetygerGT]

The thing that bothers me is, even today's big AAA games are designed with the motive to get people to spend more money on MTX. They make it harder to get whatever currency you need to buy items to progress through the game, in the hopes you will just give in to temptation and buy the currency from the store, because you haven't got the time to grind away to earn the currency through normal gameplay. A lot of people do give in and buy the MTX, which means the gaming companies see it as a lucrative business practice and will continue to make games in this fashion. For free to play games, I have no problem with this monetisation scheme. But sadly, there are no laws, rules, or regulations, to prevent gaming companies from artificially slowing down your progress in a game and using the same MTX monetisation scheme for games you've already paid top dollar for. It's a very shady business practice in my opinion.

The special purchase invitations are obviously a way to entice people to buy the MTX credits (no surprise there), but the random roulette tickets just aren't a good idea.

If we could continually win and sell unwanted cars in GT7 for some extra credits like in previous GT games, and if they removed the random roulette prize system and special purchase invitations, I think GT7 would be the perfect racing game (or pretty darn close to it).

 

[Boxster]

As I play a lot, perhaps I am not the best to judge. But the rotating of cars in and out the UCD and legendary cars isn't too bad, is it? Every two months or so your fav car will turn up.
My guess is that the lean credit economy is more of a problem, esp at start. If your car turns up you don't have the money to buy it. In my perception, GT has always tried to be a long haul game, providing an experience over time. We are not even a week after launch now. If you don't have the patience to play a few months before you get all the goodies, GT is not catering to your taste.

 

[Barracuda413]

winning and selling duplicate cars in previous GT games was a favorite pastime and good money grind
it's elimination is a bad decision

 

[xMAXIx79]

So I'm sorry to have to contradict some here, but personally I don't find the possible progress too difficult or too slow. There are plenty of ways to get enough credits pretty quickly. Added to this is the "Error-free" bonus, which is now really easy to achieve. So it's going really well. Due to personal circumstances, I currently have less time to play than I would like, but I have no problem getting credits. I'm currently still doing the cafe missions and for almost every new task you need a new car, I usually won a suitable model beforehand. I then tune this model completely and create a good working setup to be able to do well in the races. Add to that flawless races and at the end of the day I have at least the same credits as before, but I have new cars and I'm a bit further. As soon as these café tasks are completed, it's time for the track challenges and later for the credits farms to be able to buy the luxury models. Since I always completely tune a car during the missions, I later have enough choice to farm credits.

I like the aspect that you don't immediately get so many cars thrown at you like e.g. at GTS. Within 1-2 weeks you already had all the "necessary/good" GT3-GT4 vehicles in GTS, plus a lot of credits to buy any vehicles you might need and plenty of miles to tune the cars if necessary.

I like that GT7 doesn't run that fast yet.

For me last year, Forza Horizon 5 was extremely crass... after 14 days you basically had everything important and most of the best vehicles including tuning... whoa... how boring!

 

[kjeldsen]

Honestly, @s0cks, it sounds like this is your first real GT game. Did you start off with Sport? Gran Turismo has always had this same schema of play outside of Sport. Its unfortunate that you're low on time, but nobody is forcing you to buy credits at all. It really is quite easy to make money in the game, albeit it would take some time to make 20 million. The draw of the game is the car collection and its uniqueness and with that comes the standard GT-style career mode and prize cars/lucky wins.

If you purchased this game because you thought it was going to be GT Sport 2.0, then that's a mistake as it has been advertised for a long time that the game is going to have an established career mode and be a true-GT successor.

Throwing it back, @wheelhp makes a good point about an arcade mode. GT has had some sort of arcade mode in the past, but the car selections were limited. This is also normally where you find 2 player mode as well.

If PD acts in a way as they have in the past, I'm sure they will hear the community at large and find a way to appease all manners of players, including you. But, for now, you're on the same boat as the rest of us who have limited time and have to spare some hours here and again to grind our way to the cars that we want.

This is the Gran Turismo way.

GT-Sport wasn't a paradise where you got all cars, the 20 million cars were hard to come by, i have 3 unicorns*, two from the wheel (before they killed that option) and one earned by grinding. The main game loop was online racing that earned so little money, in many ways it was way harder to get paid compared to GT7

*The truly unicorn is actually the Le Mans AUDI edition, i am not even sure it could be bought.

 

[o000o]

My take is this - I think a deep sense of progression is and always has been a key component of the Gran Turismo experience. I like that things are not easy to acquire.

However, thinking more about it, the random nature of the rare parts is a bit strange. I wish they were tied to experience points earned on a per-car basis instead. I've mentioned this before, but it would be cool and I think more immersive if you unlocked the R26B for the FD RX-7 or the super turbo (or whatever other rare parts) after having earned experience points, race wins, or simply miles while driving that specific car. It would be a known goal instead of a completely random encounter. I don't hate the roulette system, but I don't think it's the best approach either. I will say I think it's still far better than Forza's empty feeling swap a V8 into anything whenever you want mechanic because nothing ever feels special.

Guess that'd be a good improvement to experience some cars. GT5 implemented that by giving you X2010 at level 35 of B-Spec (the separated A-Spec and B-Spec though... ). Any game just shouldn't have parts that can only be obtainable via random roulette like probably also parts such as Weight Reduction Stage 5, albeit engine swap isn't fully crucial to progress or such.

Be careful they have an expiration date.

Any reward is better than no reward for being expired.

Yeah, but in real life you can visit lots of different dealers. This game only gives us one.

Would this actually annoy you more too? This was the menu on games like GT2:

 

[Lomic]

I'm not really enjoying this ultra-linear unlocking of cars through the Cafe either. The beauty of the early GTs was that all these championships were laid out before you and you only had a few grand and an old Civic - the progression was yours for the choosing. Upgrade, tune, buy the cars you want, sell the prize cars you don't and save up your cash to finally get and race-prep that TVR Cerbera. Yes, you'd need to get an FF, FR, RR, 4WD etc to meet the various criteria, but every choice would be yours to make along that journey. I've already got 50+ cars in my garage and well over half of them haven't been driven.

Cannot agree more, that's the way I love my GTs.

 

[sejtur]

They had better remove the cars from the roulette wheel too then, not to mention the prize cars.

You still have to do something for the prize cars, race. It devalues the cars when you can drive them without doing anything.

But I’m against how legend cars and invitation only cars are implemented.