The Budget Autocross Project: Potential Car

[Joey D]

Myself along with 4 of my closet friends are out to build a cheap autocross car along the spirit of the Kumho Grassroots Motorsport $2011 Challenge. This idea sort of came about when a couple of us were sitting around drinking beer one night and thought a LeMons racer would be a good idea, but it turns out it's not just buying a $500 car and going for it. So after some more discussion we were wondering if we could possibly build a cheap autocross car, and being slightly drunk and fuelled with the desire to race we thought why the hell not.

We had out first meeting tonight to hammer out the rules and goals for the car we wanted to create, which oddly was incredibly simple. We have decided our first season will be dedicated to building up experience and confidence with racing. We would be running SCCA and council events all over Southeast Michigan as we had time. We know only two of us can race at any one time, but we'd work out a schedule.

The logistics really isn't a problem for us, one of my friends does budgeting all the time for his company and we figure if he can work on a budget in the millions for his department, he can manage $2000-ish. We have also already planned for other items needed, the main goal is $2000-$2100 total on a car, including the car itself, any repairs and any modifications. We also have a fair amount of access to used parts from a wide range of cars from the 80's and 90's.

We don't really plan to be overly competitive, out main goal is to have fun and have some racing fun.

Right now I'm just looking for car suggestions and just some overall help with autocross in general. We aren't sure what class to run in although Street Touring has been thrown around.

I'm pretty sure we are going to want something manual, FWD and cheap. Obviously something with decent aftermarket support to so it's not impossible to find suspension for it.

Cars we've thrown around:

• Dodge Neon
• Ford Escort
• Toyota Tercel
• Chevy Cavalier

And to a lesser extent:

• Ford Festiva
• Ford Tempo
• VW Rabbit/Golf
• Toyota Celica
• Honda Civic of some sort
• Chevy S-10 (to be different)

I know there are some autocross veterns here I'm hoping some of you would be willing to help out a n00b and his mostly drunk friends to put together a rather rag tag racing team.

 

[JCE]

Nissan Sentra or a Ford Escort comes to mind. Both have a good aftermarket support.

 

[Tornado]

S-10! Every third car is a Civic, Celica or Neon. I mean, there is a very good reason for that, but different has its own merits.



The Escort would be different from the norm as well, though; so that would probably be the better choice if "different" and "acceptable autocross material" weren't supposed to be mutually exclusive.

 

[SVX]

CRX?

 

[GTMail]

S10 please! That would be awesome! Or maybe an old Datsun pickup.

 

[JCE]

You will never find a Datsun truck for $500 worth using. Now locating an early 80's S-10 is possible but it won't be in good shape. Just avoid the Iron Duke I4...

 

[TheBook]

If you can put up with the ZX2 drivetrain's Alzheimer's, check this out [language warning]. That's for a LeMons car, think of what you can do with four times the budget.

Failing that, definitely S10.

 

[Famine]

along with 4 of my closet friends

*childish giggle*

Mazda MX-3 V6. Pick one up for beans, get a KL-ZE, make close friends with Corksport and job jobbed. You could plough together a stripper ZE conversion for $2k easily, if you're doing the work yourself - it's been done before and there's even guides for how to do it on the internets!

Plus you get a 65:35 weight distribution (better than most FWDs), a V6, 0.9g on the constant radius and the funky twin trapezoidal link - as well as 200hp/ton.

 

[Bottoz]

I've got about 6 years of GrassRoots Motorsports magazine collecting dust at home. I'll thumb thru them and see which cars have been past winners.

While getting seat time, check out NASA for some road course days. NASA Mid West. Also, you might save some $ by looking at Racing Junk.

Another car idea... Saturn SC1. Lightweight, FWD and GM Parts.

*edit* - LOL, I just looked up the GRM $2011 challenge... RacingJunk is a sponsor.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Joey you REALLY need to get out to one of my Grattan road track events. Not only will it give you some real life track time, it will also give you a ton of ideas for a project car. The guys I run with actually have a track SRT Neon that they beat the living heck out of. They even ran some crazy endurance race with it a couple years ago and did very well. But if you have any questions, let me know. I have been doing autocross and road track racing for a long time. The link in my signature has thousands of pictures and hundreds of videos of Grattan Raceway and Gingerman Raceway. Plus I have been building and racing cars / trucks for almost 20 years.

First I would not suggest any truck at all. No S10 no Datsun. Most road track groups dont like dealing with any trucks. Even the group I run with frowns on most trucks. And do not ever buy a Ford Tempo. Those are one of THE worst cars Ford ever created. Many many problems with Tempos.

The first track experience I ever was autocross and the guy that got me into it had turbo Miata that was just insane. Very cheap, very light, very fast.

Overall I say focus on building a car for Grattan. If you build something that can handle Grattan Raceway, then you will have a vehicle that can handle ANYTHING. Most autocross events are a bit boring since they are very very short. Usually on average only about 20-40 seconds. Grattan allows you to run FULL laps over and over again Gran Tursimo style or Forza style. Full track runs with 12 turns and elevation changes. Thats usually 15-20 minute non stop sessions!!! And you end up going out more times in a day than you can physically handle.

I would highly consider a Miata for sure or Neon. Celica would be awesome. Especially if it was around a year 2000 Celica.

 

[Bottoz]

Holy Crap... the GRM $2011 challenge is Oct. 6-Oct. 8. You're not just starting now are you?!?!

And, I agree with CAMAROBOY69. AutoX is one way to get into motorsports... but at less than 60 seconds per run, and only 4-6 runs per day it can get really really really boring. That's 5 minutes of track time in 8 hours. Or... you can get into Road Course driving/racing and get 80-100 minutes of track time per day. Personally, I can not stand AutoX and driving 'fast' in a parking lot. But, GOOD LUCK to you and your buddies. Have fun!!!

 

[Famine]

Inspired by, not built for.

 

[Bottoz]

Inspired by, not built for.

Roger That. I re-read the first post after a cup of coffee.

 

[JCE]

How about something better than a Dodge Neon?

They look better, they sound better, they have a better engine lineup and of course being even older means picking up a non-Shelby one will be cheap (*edit*I need to mention that they are harder to find over a Neon). You can get non-Shelby versions of the I4 turbo for cheap and you still get 150bhp 190tq. Don't want the turbo? The normal I4 still puts out around 100bhp and 120tq(2.2)/140tq(2.5). Plus you could even get the super sweet 140bhp 170tq Mitsubishi 3.0L V6 in 1993 & 1994.

The first manual car I ever drove was a Shadow and it was a great little car. What I can remember about these from back in the day is every engine is tuned for torque, which should be good for AutoX and maybe some circuit racing with more corners than straights (). Generally the 1993 & 1994 models are more desirable with that V6 and these also had 4 wheel ABS disc brakes available only in those 2 years. Not to mention you could turn one into a CSX clone. Just sayin'.

This thread almost makes me want to do this for myself...

 

[CodeRedR51]

*cough*Sentra SE-R*cough*

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I also used to have a Dodge Shadow but the "cool" factor in those cars just seems way too low. I just cant picture him driving a Shadow.
I think hes looking at something a little newer. If hes looking for late 80s early 90s then he could also look at a Chevy Beretta. Those cars are quite quite impressive stock and about as cheap as it gets.

 

[Tornado]

The Dodge Shadow is the best compact car ever built by an American automaker. I like driving mom's even more than I liked driving Dad's Neon (which always surprised me), but I'd have to imagine that any Shadow he would find in the Michigan area will have "you can see through the body panels" rust at this point unless it has been babied and cared for extensively.





And there is no reason whatsoever to get the V6 models when the K engines are practically indestructible to power mods.

 

[chuyler1]

Why hasn't the Miata been mentioned? It is the quintessential auto-x car and you can find NA models well within your budget. Not sure why you want FWD when RWD would be so much more fun. Plus, you'll have lots of people at events willing to help you with suspension tweaks and other improvements.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Why hasn't the Miata been mentioned?

I would highly consider a Miata for sure or Neon. Celica would be awesome. Especially if it was around a year 2000 Celica.

 

[JCE]

*cough*Sentra SE-R*cough*

Not for the money they have in mind. I'd just recommend a normal B14 200SX or B13/14 Sentra with the GA16DE if he wants a Sentra for that money. But honestly the Shadow is the better car for speed--not reliability--only speed.

I also used to have a Dodge Shadow but the "cool" factor in those cars just seems way too low. I just cant picture him driving a Shadow.
I think hes looking at something a little newer. If hes looking for late 80s early 90s then he could also look at a Chevy Beretta. Those cars are quite quite impressive stock and about as cheap as it gets.

The Shadow IS cool though. Seriously, it beats the pants off of a Neon for the coolness factor. Plus, its now rare, that means exclusivity!!!

The Dodge Shadow is the best compact car ever built by an American automaker. I like driving mom's even more than I liked driving Dad's Neon (which always surprised me), but I'd have to imagine that any Shadow he would find in the Michigan area will have "you can see through the body panels" rust at this point unless it has been babied and cared for extensively.

And there is no reason whatsoever to get the V6 models when the K engines are practically indestructible to power mods.

+1 His best bet is to locate one that was transplanted from the south.

And +1 The K-series engines are better, but the V6 isn't a slouch either on the power front. Granted, I too trust the Turbo II more than the Mitsu 6 but any engine really was a good on in this car. Hell, maybe he can get lucky and find one of these:

And for those who do not know what this is just know that Lotus and Shelby collaborated on the aluminum heads to produce 225bhp and 220tq (coined the Turbo III) and Getrag did the transmision. That put this car below 6 seconds to 60mph, you read correctly. It was the fastest sedan made in America at that time--that includes faster than the Taurus SHO. It is properly fast folks, even by today's standards. In fact, I wonder what car replaced that as the fastest sedan made in America? Anyone?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Not for the money they have in mind. I'd just recommend a normal B14 200SX or B13/14 Sentra with the GA16DE if he wants a Sentra for that money. But honestly the Shadow is the better car for speed--not reliability--only speed.

There's cheap SE-R's out there. I sold my last one for $1k and it only needed a clutch. Look and you shall find. SR20forum.com is your friend.

 

[astrosdude91]

Infiniti G20?

With a tighter suspension, obviously.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Before you spend any money, I'd do some research & soul searching.

What I mean by that is really think about what you want to accomplish. Do you want to be competitive or will you be happy coming near the bottom of PAX? Do you just want to make some noise for 5min once or twice a month or do you want more seat time?

The things you should research would be the better cars for their respective classes. For instance, if you buy a Camaro for a class that is dominated by STI's & Evos; will you be OK with that decision or will it piss you off b/c no matter how well you drive or prepare your car, you're going to be DFL?

The SCCA's rules can be best described in this sentence:
"Cheap & easy is illegal while expensive and complicated is legal."

Changing the hood on your car, like a N/A MR2 using a Turbo hood, puts you in a much higher class. However, you can remain in the Stock class despite using modified 2-way Konis, racing slicks, and a bigger front sta-bar. That crap never made sense to me. Something as simple as changing the material of your old bushings to urethane can even put you in a class against cars with no interiors & plastic windows. Messed up...

I'd be looking into local clubs or NASA events. I'm kinda jaded from the SCCA in general.

....

If I were looking for a cheap, fun, and easy to work on vehicle for mild autocross and track duty; I'd looking into 1st & 2nd gen RX7's, E30 3-Series, Fox Mustangs, Civic Hatches, Miatas, etc. (just go down the list of SPEC series shared by NASA & SCCA).

Next, I'd buy a complete car that's already been prepared for whatever class. You'll save THOUSANDS that way. Almost bought a Spec E30, with trailer, with extras, and in good running condition for $5,000. It was almost 10 years ago but I was an hour late in buying a prepped MK2 GTI in very nice shape for $1800.

Already built cars are out there and it is easily the cheapest way to go in the long run. Instead of building a car to a class as well as maintaining, fixing, tweaking it AND buying consumables such as tires & breaks...you just have to worry about maintaining it, buying consumables, and fixing what you broke.

I wouldn't be surprised if you can snag something for 25 cents on the dollar.

 

[Joey D]

Thanks for all the information and input! I really do appreciate it! 👍

Mazda MX-3 V6.

They are pretty scarce in the Detroit area, but that would be a consideration I could add to the list. There are a few on craigslist right now but one has a blown trans and the other looks solid enough, but for some reason comes with two cars with enough parts to maybe make one. Seeing as we barely have enough space for one car I don't think we could do too.

I ran across another for $1,000 but it was an auto which will not work on a track.

I've got about 6 years of GrassRoots Motorsports magazine collecting dust at home. I'll thumb thru them and see which cars have been past winners.

While getting seat time, check out NASA for some road course days. NASA Mid West. Also, you might save some $ by looking at Racing Junk.

Another car idea... Saturn SC1. Lightweight, FWD and GM Parts.

NASA looking like another organisation we need to check out. We are hoping to get the most amount of racing out the car for next season so we can gain some experience and have some fun.

As for the SC1, it would be a consideration, although I'm having a hard time locating anything in a 5-speed that isn't over out budget.

Joey you REALLY need to get out to one of my Grattan road track events. Not only will it give you some real life track time, it will also give you a ton of ideas for a project car. The guys I run with actually have a track SRT Neon that they beat the living heck out of. They even ran some crazy endurance race with it a couple years ago and did very well. But if you have any questions, let me know. I have been doing autocross and road track racing for a long time. The link in my signature has thousands of pictures and hundreds of videos of Grattan Raceway and Gingerman Raceway. Plus I have been building and racing cars / trucks for almost 20 years.

First I would not suggest any truck at all. No S10 no Datsun. Most road track groups dont like dealing with any trucks. Even the group I run with frowns on most trucks. And do not ever buy a Ford Tempo. Those are one of THE worst cars Ford ever created. Many many problems with Tempos.

The first track experience I ever was autocross and the guy that got me into it had turbo Miata that was just insane. Very cheap, very light, very fast.

Overall I say focus on building a car for Grattan. If you build something that can handle Grattan Raceway, then you will have a vehicle that can handle ANYTHING. Most autocross events are a bit boring since they are very very short. Usually on average only about 20-40 seconds. Grattan allows you to run FULL laps over and over again Gran Tursimo style or Forza style. Full track runs with 12 turns and elevation changes. Thats usually 15-20 minute non stop sessions!!! And you end up going out more times in a day than you can physically handle.

I would highly consider a Miata for sure or Neon. Celica would be awesome. Especially if it was around a year 2000 Celica.

Thanks for the advice 👍

We are going to get the feel of things with a couple autocrosses and then we will more then likely move to a couple of track days if we can. I know we have Waterford Hill in the area and we would like to come over to Grattan for the weekend.

How about something better than a Dodge Neon?

I rather like the Shadow, it's something a little different but not so scare that I couldn't locate parts for it. I'll have to look into more aftermarket parts.

*cough*Sentra SE-R*cough*

I haven't been able to locate them in the area for under $4,000 but I'll keep my eyes open.

Why hasn't the Miata been mentioned? It is the quintessential auto-x car and you can find NA models well within your budget. Not sure why you want FWD when RWD would be so much more fun. Plus, you'll have lots of people at events willing to help you with suspension tweaks and other improvements.

We don't want a Miata, none of us like them and they can be pretty expensive in Michigan. The cheapest one on craigslist is $1900 and that wouldn't leave us much room to play around with things and stay within our budget.

As for FWD they are, for the most part cheaper, and would be easier for us to get used to racing. And a properly setup FWD car can hang with RWD cars.

 

[Eric.]

*childish giggle*

Mazda MX-3 V6. Pick one up for beans, get a KL-ZE, make close friends with Corksport and job jobbed. You could plough together a stripper ZE conversion for $2k easily, if you're doing the work yourself - it's been done before and there's even guides for how to do it on the internets!

Plus you get a 65:35 weight distribution (better than most FWDs), a V6, 0.9g on the constant radius and the funky twin trapezoidal link - as well as 200hp/ton.

And say hello to Street Modified FWD class.


I got my MR2 for less than $1500. Any of those in your area will be nothing more than flakes of rust by now, though. I'd say any older Civic would be a good starting point. Throw some lowering springs on it and some Star Specs or Hankook RS3s. Also, CRX.


As far as getting out there with a completely stock car and having fun, something like my MR2 or a Miata would be perfect. Also, Fox Body Mustangs can be pretty good with a little suspension work, and the torque will be nice to have. Maybe one of your cheapest options as well.

 

[Famine]

They are pretty scarce in the Detroit area, but that would be a consideration I could add to the list. There are a few on craigslist right now but one has a blown trans and the other looks solid enough, but for some reason comes with two cars with enough parts to maybe make one. Seeing as we barely have enough space for one car I don't think we could do too.

I ran across another for $1,000 but it was an auto which will not work on a track.

If you get hold of one, you're welcome to fill my PM box with requests for advice I've got a whole one and a garage filled with a shell of one and most of the rest of one exploded all over the place (and a forum - the international site is more comprehensive, older, nearer to you, covers LHD models and much larger but has a high level of assumed knowledge. And a blog, though that deals with a Miller conversion, which is impossible apparently).

You'll find them a lot better in almost every respect than any FWD hatch of the same age, though perhaps a hair down on power compared to a B16 Civic. They sound better though Though they're still a hatch-derived (based on the BG 323/Familia - related to the Ford Laser/Mercury Tracer) coupe, you get fully independent suspension (with TTL on the rear), four wheel disc brakes, class-leading weight distribution, a low centre of gravity with a nice, wide track to put it in leading to a class-leading turn rate. They're a nicer place to be too, making the drive to and from the track nicer They're essentially a middle ground between the MX-5 and MX-6/Probe - bigger and leggier than the '5, but smaller and sharper than the '6. Just need to strap on a rear strut brace (front is standard) and you're good to go for trackwork.


The car with the blown 'box... the manual MX-3 uses the G25M-R with a 4.38 final. This is also fitted to the Probe (4.38 final), MX-6 (4.11 final - might make it a bit slower down at autocross speeds), 323/Familia (1990-1994, 4.11 final), Mazda 626 (1993-2002, 4.11 final), Ford Escort 1.8 and ZX2 (1991-whenever they killed it, 4.11 final), Mercury Tracer 1.8 (1991-1996, 4.11 final). Shouldn't be too hard to find a cheap one - plus anyone who has done or is doing a KL-ZE swap will use a 4.11 final G25M-R for the project and will have a spare 4.38 'box floating around.

 

[Adirtytoilet]

A few people have mentioned fox body mustangs. They are realty plentiful in your area.

I was just wondering if you has interest in racing one of those. Look around and you can get a5.0 5 speed for under 1k. And parts are a some a dozen!

 

[JCE]

I love Fox Mustangs, but lets not forget the 3rd Gen FBodies. Those are quite good handlers too. The Camaro had a longer wheelbase, shorter height, more width and has larger/wider lower profile tires. That's what generated slightly better lateral G readings. Plus the brakes stock vs stock are better in the FBody. Plus, do an 1LE conversion on a standard hardtop and you'll have one sticky gripping machine.

Keep in mind, this was the slowest non-convertible IROC you could get during it's 1987-1990 production run.

Come on, I have to represent my Camaro generation.

I was just wondering if you has interest in racing one of those. Look around and you can get a5.0 5 speed for under 1k. And parts are a some a dozen!

Come on dude, you cannot find any Mustang V8 with a 5spd for under a $1,000 in any sort of condition to meet their budget. You can only find 4 cylinder cars and roller chassis cars. That means with complete engine(w/wiring)+transmission(w/driveshaft)+rear end you are already over $2,000 before you even touch the suspension, paint/body and interior (race prep or original).

 

[Eric.]

I think in all honesty you shouldn't be thinking "oh lets get some goofy oddball car, it'll be fun!!" and instead think of what car, for about $500 under your budget, can you get that is the best "out of the box". You're gonna come back to a Miata, MR2, CRX, Civic, Foxbody, etc. Not some Fiesta or other American econobox that was nothing more than an econobox.

Use that $500 left to fix up anything needing immediate attention (check the condition of all braking components, replace struts if necessary). And if the tires on it are good enough for a few events, keep them and learn the car behavior. Then step up to a good autocross tire like Dunlop Star Specs or Hankook RS3s (both the most liked tires from everyone I've talked to - Hankooks are cheaper but come in fewer sizes).



Edit: Regarding Camaro vs. Mustang, being longer and wider aren't actually better qualities for an autox car.

 

[Tornado]

You're gonna come back to a Miata, MR2, CRX, Civic, Foxbody, etc. Not some Fiesta or other American econobox that was nothing more than an econobox.

Unless the econobox he chooses is a Neon or P-Body.