The Budget Autocross Project: Potential Car
- Thread starter Joey D
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If it weren't because getting a cheap one in the US is nearly impossible, and the newer models weren't road-legal in the US:
These kind of cars are very successful in desert racing here at Baja. There's a class over here for stock Beetles.
If they make it in some of the most grueling desert races in the world, why not in Autocross?
These kind of cars are very successful in desert racing here at Baja. There's a class over here for stock Beetles.
If they make it in some of the most grueling desert races in the world, why not in Autocross?
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Since the Miata isn't an option I'd be looking at a Neon. They seem dirt cheap, bits are plentiful and they're popular in grassroots stuff for a reason.
Probably the expense involved in turning it from a wobbly, slow mess into something even vaguely competitive.
And I'm not being needlessly harsh on the car, I own a Beetle myself (link in my sig). It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, something that would be competitive in autocross without a lot of work. It'd be fun, but hopeless.
You could plough probably $10k into an old Beetle to make it quick and grippy for autocross, or you could spend a few thousand on a Civic, Miata etc that are equally quick out of the box and have even more potential.
Probably the expense involved in turning it from a wobbly, slow mess into something even vaguely competitive.
And I'm not being needlessly harsh on the car, I own a Beetle myself (link in my sig). It is not, by any stretch of the imagination, something that would be competitive in autocross without a lot of work. It'd be fun, but hopeless.
You could plough probably $10k into an old Beetle to make it quick and grippy for autocross, or you could spend a few thousand on a Civic, Miata etc that are equally quick out of the box and have even more potential.
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- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
1.) Old SVO 'stang
2.) Volvo B234F + some finetuning (Even the 16v head is enough, it's a common swap for SVO owners)
3.) ????
4.) Win!
2.) Volvo B234F + some finetuning (Even the 16v head is enough, it's a common swap for SVO owners)
3.) ????
4.) Win!
- 2,321
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- JuveraTj
Not THAT expensive. In the stock class they basically get only a decent suspension, some work in the carburetors and a roll cage. It's not too far from $2000 in work. Example:
But it's still out of your budget.
In that case, get a B13 Sentra or a CRX. Cheap, powerful enough, agile, good parts availability.
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However easy it is to make a Beetle competitive off-road where outright power and grip are less important than traction and ground clearance, it would need a hell of a lot more work to make it into a good autocross car. Most things about it are fundamentally wrong and it'd take a lot of correcting, which means lots of money.
- 8,480
- P_Balance
EF or EG Civic.
Civic HX 14" wheels with 185/60/14 Falken Azenis
Hawk HP+ Pads for the front
Cheap coilovers, and turn up the stiffness in the rear.
Spend the extra money on a cheap bucket seat and a steering wheel. Most people don't realize how much of a different it makes (until they try) to not need to use the steering wheel and dead pedal for support, therefore being able to be really light on the steering and pedal work.
Done. For less than $2000 probably, and probably quicker and more fun to drive than a Dodge Neon, or a pickup truck, or an old grandpa car like other people have been suggesting.
It blows my mind when I go to autocrosses at how much people will spend money, time and frustration trying to drive some pos quickly around the course because it's "different" and is difficult to drive quickly because the suspension is horrible and the car has no steering feel or feedback in general. Then some old man in a CRX goes out and effortlessly rapes everything and then drives the car home without issues.
Yes, someone can argue that it's just for fun and results don't matter. But having fun AND driving a car that's nice to drive AND actually doing well is more fun.
Civic HX 14" wheels with 185/60/14 Falken Azenis
Hawk HP+ Pads for the front
Cheap coilovers, and turn up the stiffness in the rear.
Spend the extra money on a cheap bucket seat and a steering wheel. Most people don't realize how much of a different it makes (until they try) to not need to use the steering wheel and dead pedal for support, therefore being able to be really light on the steering and pedal work.
Done. For less than $2000 probably, and probably quicker and more fun to drive than a Dodge Neon, or a pickup truck, or an old grandpa car like other people have been suggesting.
It blows my mind when I go to autocrosses at how much people will spend money, time and frustration trying to drive some pos quickly around the course because it's "different" and is difficult to drive quickly because the suspension is horrible and the car has no steering feel or feedback in general. Then some old man in a CRX goes out and effortlessly rapes everything and then drives the car home without issues.
Yes, someone can argue that it's just for fun and results don't matter. But having fun AND driving a car that's nice to drive AND actually doing well is more fun.
Keef
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You're really not going to enjoy the driving unless you get something with a decent driving experience. Something like a Miata or older Civic.
+1 for what PB said. I'd put the budget at more like $3000 just in case, for an entire setup including car, cheap coilovers, wheels, tires, seat, and some brake pads. Craigslist is your friend! I'm sure it can be done for 2k.
+1 for what PB said. I'd put the budget at more like $3000 just in case, for an entire setup including car, cheap coilovers, wheels, tires, seat, and some brake pads. Craigslist is your friend! I'm sure it can be done for 2k.
- 3,542
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Get a Focus 
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- GTP_Adirtytoilet
I just bought a good running fox with a few bolt on parts in pennsylvania for 1.1k. The only work it really needs is some suspension upgrades and tires. Easily under 2k.
Heck it was only that cheap because it was not road legal due to removal of some safety and emissions parts
Heck it was only that cheap because it was not road legal due to removal of some safety and emissions parts
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Yeah, I made that suggestion because I confused Autocross with Rallycross. Beetles are basically helpless on tarmac.
So I suggest a CRX.
Rotary Junkie
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Michigan.
Not being road legal due to removal of safety and emissions bits does not appreciably depreciate a car as we have no emissions or safety inspections.
In fact I'm willing to wager that about 75% of Fox-bodies in Michigan are breaking federal law.
Eric.
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PB, Keef, THANK YOU.
Its fine if you want to go be different, but when "different" means you have a car that doesn't handle worth a crap, you get over the novelty of being the only one driving a Mercury Sable and wish you had gotten a Miata or something.
Again. Miata. Why don't you want one? All it needs for autox is gas.
Its fine if you want to go be different, but when "different" means you have a car that doesn't handle worth a crap, you get over the novelty of being the only one driving a Mercury Sable and wish you had gotten a Miata or something.
Again. Miata. Why don't you want one? All it needs for autox is gas.
CodeRedR51
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Joey D
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Thanks again for all the comments.
We are considering a Fox body Mustang since they are everywhere around here for almost peanuts. The aftermarket support for them is excellent and you can buy used parts for them at any of the flea markets we have around here.
An EF Civic has been moved to the top of our list as of right now since we are finding them in our price range. They are pretty badly rusted but a little welding and bondo will make it good enough. An EG would be good to, although all I'm coming up with is automatic sedans.
Does it really matter hatchback or sedan? I'm sure both have different characteristics.
I wouldn't mind one of those but Focus are quite expensive in the Detroit area, it's hard to find even a high mileage one under $4,000 unless it has a blown motor or something else major wrong with it.
None of us like Miata's at all, I'm probably the biggest hater of them but the others aren't far behind. I wouldn't mind having one if the others were all about it, but they aren't.
Our biggest roadblock is that there is not a huge supply of them in Michigan which makes the ones that are here pricey. This also poses a problem for parts since we just can't pop down to the junk yard and get what we need. None of us really know anything about them either, which means more mistakes and more costs. If we get something we know a little bit about it would be easier.
Also none of us can stand the Miata community around here, they are either old guys that use it as their summer car and know nothing about them or they are d-bags. Since we have limited knowledge it would be nice to have a community that we can at least turn to for advice that wouldn't be major Richards.
The only Miata I've ever been in is a guy from my old car club who had a 300hp turbo Miata that was scary to be in.
Considering one of the guys on the team is like 6'3" and about 240lbs., I really doubt he'd fit. Although he could probably pick the car up if we needed too
.
We are considering a Fox body Mustang since they are everywhere around here for almost peanuts. The aftermarket support for them is excellent and you can buy used parts for them at any of the flea markets we have around here.
An EF Civic has been moved to the top of our list as of right now since we are finding them in our price range. They are pretty badly rusted but a little welding and bondo will make it good enough. An EG would be good to, although all I'm coming up with is automatic sedans.
Does it really matter hatchback or sedan? I'm sure both have different characteristics.
Get a Focus
I wouldn't mind one of those but Focus are quite expensive in the Detroit area, it's hard to find even a high mileage one under $4,000 unless it has a blown motor or something else major wrong with it.
None of us like Miata's at all, I'm probably the biggest hater of them but the others aren't far behind. I wouldn't mind having one if the others were all about it, but they aren't.
Our biggest roadblock is that there is not a huge supply of them in Michigan which makes the ones that are here pricey. This also poses a problem for parts since we just can't pop down to the junk yard and get what we need. None of us really know anything about them either, which means more mistakes and more costs. If we get something we know a little bit about it would be easier.
Also none of us can stand the Miata community around here, they are either old guys that use it as their summer car and know nothing about them or they are d-bags. Since we have limited knowledge it would be nice to have a community that we can at least turn to for advice that wouldn't be major Richards.
The only Miata I've ever been in is a guy from my old car club who had a 300hp turbo Miata that was scary to be in.
Considering one of the guys on the team is like 6'3" and about 240lbs., I really doubt he'd fit. Although he could probably pick the car up if we needed too
.
Rotary Junkie
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Considering one of the guys on the team is like 6'3" and about 240lbs., I really doubt he'd fit. Although he could probably pick the car up if we needed too
He'll be fine if the seat gets moved downward a bit.
I'm 6' dead and 280lbs, only issue is that my head is very, very close to the roof in both hardtop and soft top versions with stock seats + mounting.
Eric.
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So you won't buy a car that excels at what you want to do because you don't like them and would rather have a Ford Tempo. Do tell, what all are you going to be needing out of a junkyard besides something aesthetic or like a control arm? I don't doubt that you can buy anything you'd ever actually need for a Miata brand new.
Its the most-raced car in the world. You think you have to rely on a half dozen douchebags in your town for advice? There's no reason for them to be harder to work on for the fact that none of you have owned one.
NA Miata with Hankook RS3s = Perfect car to start playing in STS.
Oh, and Michigan isn't the only place with cars for sale.
Its the most-raced car in the world. You think you have to rely on a half dozen douchebags in your town for advice? There's no reason for them to be harder to work on for the fact that none of you have owned one.
NA Miata with Hankook RS3s = Perfect car to start playing in STS.
Oh, and Michigan isn't the only place with cars for sale.
Joey D
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Actually the Ford Tempo isn't even in the running anymore, nor was it really on the list of serious consideration. As I've said in my previous post the EF Civic is sitting at the top of the list right now. Followed by a Fox Body Mustang.
Any of number of things could be needed for a car that is driven very hard on the weekend as well as occasionally during the week. The trans could go, or the rear end or really any number of things. I'm not a psychic so I really have no idea what we would end up needing.
And yes you can buy new parts for anything, but why pay more then you have to on a cobbled together race car? For your daily drive I would understand.
Actually from my experience most Miata owners I come across are d-bag, even on the internet. And I would actually like advice from people while at the race event for whatever, we are there to learn and the only way to learn is through other people's teachings.
I am aware but the only other place I would look is Toledo, OH. We will have to transport thing thing back to one of our garages here and the less effort and expense we have to lay out for that the better. If it's in decent shape we can just temp plate it and drive it back, but if it needs a trailer and truck that means calling in quite a few favours. I don't want to do that, nor does the rest of the team.
CodeRedR51
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Behold:
Hyundai Accent.
It was used in the WRC and was successful. It is now being used for the Junior Formula series. My mom also had one from 2002. Loved it.
Here's 2 in your area:
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/2546728887.html
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/2579123000.html
And, your performance parts:
http://www.raceinspired.com/s-209-hyundai-accent.aspx
Hyundai Accent.
It was used in the WRC and was successful. It is now being used for the Junior Formula series. My mom also had one from 2002. Loved it.
Here's 2 in your area:
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/2546728887.html
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/2579123000.html
And, your performance parts:
http://www.raceinspired.com/s-209-hyundai-accent.aspx
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I have a friend with a fully built to the rules Porsche 944 SPEC race car for sale. $7200. Gutted, Caged, Full Suspension, Accusump, extra wheels, harness, seat, lexan, wipers & lights (for enduro racing), ... more...
As said before, you'll save money by buying an already built race/track car.
As said before, you'll save money by buying an already built race/track car.
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Toyota Corolla? Even TRD bolt-on supercharger kits were made for them!
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