The Buick Thread: Your Enclave for all things Buick

[Philly]

Any ideas of what the other two models will be? I think the Park Avenue would be awesome, but I don't knwo if GM would do it...

Also, I thought the Penske owned Saturn was just going to keep the same lineup until the contract with GM ran out. This this change or something?

That will still stand, but GM still "owns" the platform that the VUE was built on, so they can still build cars on it and sell them while keeping the contract with Penske.

 

[YSSMAN]

Any ideas of what the other two models will be? I think the Park Avenue would be awesome, but I don't knwo if GM would do it...

• LaCrosse
• Regal
• Skylark (Astra)
• New Crossover (VUE)
• New Plug-In Crossover (based on VUE)???
• New Mini Crossover

As for what the sixth model is, yeah. Hmm. I wonder if they're counting the crossover with the Voltec powertrain as a separate model?

 

[Joey D]

I thought GM told us they were going to have fewer models? It looks like they are just continuing to badge engineer cars. I mean seriously, the Skylark wasn't exactly the world's best car when it was out so it probably has a less than stellar reputation and then to go ahead and base it on the Astra? Really? If I may quote Clarkson here for a moment, how much do you not want that?

I think Buick needs to change their image a bit more, especially now that Tiger Woods isn't promoting them. Offer something crazy to drawn people to the brand like the Grand National did back in the 80's.

I hope I am wrong about all this though because since I essentially own a stake in GM now I want to see them do well. I don't think I'll be buying a GM for a while, but I still want them to do good (if I was going to buy "American" I would get a Ford).

 

[YSSMAN]

Operating with only Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac... Having a few more models makes sense. Chevrolet can't woo luxury people, that's accepted across the board. Cadillac doesn't want to have too many more cars (killing the STS/DTS, adding the XTS and ATS). So, Buick may become a new volume brand. They (GM) have to spread the love around, and pick up at least (some) of the sales from Pontiac and Saab and whatever. I agree that adding the VUE back into the mix doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially when the SRX and Equinox are millions of times better.

 

[Joey D]

I understand adding more models in but seriously?

That's a Saturn Vue, which is now a Penske product, with a Buick badge. I'm all for reusing the same platform again and again, it saves money and engineering time, but at least make the models look different.

 

[Philly]

I am assuming that that's a photoshop to make the point. I've lost a good amount of faith in GM lately, but I still think they're above a simple rebadge like that.

 

[YSSMAN]

Unfortunately, Phill, that was the "official" teaser photo that GM themselves released a few weeks back. I do agree with Joe that more needs to be changed on the car to make it a legitimate product, unquestionably. What irks me is that the VUE, as it was, is now completely sub-standard compared to the SRX and Equinox with which it shares a platform. Hell, even the odd Terrain works out better than this (speaking of which, I've seen one in person... Wow).

I dunno. I understand the need for a sub-Enclave in the lineup, but more work needs to be done to make it the right vehicle at the right time.

 

[Tornado]

That's a Saturn Vue, which is now a Penske product, with a Buick badge. I'm all for reusing the same platform again and again, it saves money and engineering time, but at least make the models look different.

I'm going to add to this, partially to explain the reasoning behind my previous post and partially to help drive the point home: GM went out of their way to announce that they would fob up a rebadge of a car that sold like crap in the first place.

I am assuming that that's a photoshop to make the point. I've lost a good amount of faith in GM lately, but I still think they're above a simple rebadge like that.

These stopped being sold a couple of years ago:

I'm sure you could argue that those were the last of the pre-Lutz designs, though.



And just in case you were going to:

Those went on sale last year.

 

[Philly]

That was before GM went into bankruptcy though. I had hoped that they would learn at least something about badge engineering and selling the exact same car on a variety of dealer lots.

As for that being an actual teaser, I don't know if , , or is the most appropriate there. Unlike most teasers, I guess we know exactly what we don't have to look forward to...

 

[Tornado]

That was before GM went into bankruptcy though. I had hoped that they would learn at least something about badge engineering and selling the exact same car on a variety of dealer lots.

That they kept Buick (the lowest selling, least cared about division in the entire brand portfolio) in the first place should have been an indication that no one knew what they hell they were doing.
That their first announcement post-bankruptcy was a bunch of ideas that essentially turn Buick into what Saturn already was (don't tell me I'm the only one who has noticed) should have been the turning point where everyone should have just started buying Fords instead. Luckily, they have, but that's besides the point.

 

[Tornado]

Look everyone, GM isn't quite as stupid as they look:

Surprising news comes by way of General Motors today as the automaker has already canceled its recently announced Buick crossover, which in reality was little more than an ex-Saturn Vue emblazoned with Buick's trademark chrome waterfall grille. And therein lies the rub. As confirmed to Autoblog by Michelle Bunker, Manager of Buick Communications, initial feedback from the media, employees and dealerships regarding the upcoming vehicle was almost universally negative, as the product just didn't seem to fit with the direction the automaker said it was taking the Buick brand. As a result, GM has apparently canceled the program.

Linky.

As the article points out (don't worry, I was saying the same thing in my head before I read the whole thing), it is sad someone was enough of an idiot to get it approved in the first place; but it is indicative of some change that GM didn't say screw it and roll it out regardless, the fact that they otherwise are still turning Buick into Saturn 2.0 notwithstanding.

 

[a6m5]

Sounds pretty bad. What they need is direction, leadership. Being able to catch mistakes last minute might be an improvement for them, but that just tells me they are still clueless at the core.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, when they received resoundingly negative reactions from inside the company, from the press, and from their dealers, as well as the consumers... Eventually the idea hits home. Having a smaller crossover is a good idea, but with the new Theta crossovers already so fudging good, there isn't room for another. Do the smart thing Buick and invest your dollars in a smaller CUV to kill the Jeep Panda and MINI Crossover before they become too popular.

 

[Jim Prower]

In other words, a mildly lifted, 4WD hatchback.

 

[YSSMAN]

A Bit of Regal News

We've known for a while that the Chinese market Regal (read, Opel Insignia) is coming to North America. What we didn't know is what changes would be made. This is it:

Changes in the grille, vents, and other spots are noticeable, but not a massive departure. The car reportedly will have a standard 2.4L 180 BHP I4, and an optional direct-injection turbocharged 2.0L I4 that will have 220 BHP. Front wheel drive will be standard fare, six speed transmissions across the board.

But What About the GNX GS?

Stick it in the "probably" category. Talk at GMI says that we're getting a Buick-badged version of the Opel Insignia OPC as the Regal GS. A 300+ BHP AWD American sedan with a six-speed manual gearbox? Awesome.

 

[Paulie]

Autoblog said a GS is likely coming with the 300hp direct injection 3.6L and AWD, sounds good to me! Even the base model should really get around, 180hp is no shy figure.

 

[Omnis]

They should make a new special car like the GNX, except they can call it the Buick Regicide.

 

[Jim Prower]

or GSX. Why use Grand National when you have that in your heritage already?

I'm starting to think the Grand National overrated. Like the Supra.

 

[Tornado]

If I was in the market for lardy AWD sedans, I'd rather have a Taurus SHO. The Insignia OPC supposedly isn't very good (engine is laggy with a narrow power band), and unless they do some magic on the 2.8, I don't see that changing. The Taurus at least knows it is a lazy boulevardier car. The OPC's "I'm a Sports Sedan, SRSLY!" attitude doesn't do it any favors, especially not as a Buick.

 

[breakpoint]

I'm starting to think the Grand National overrated. Like the Supra.

You haven't spent any time around a GN if you think they are overrated. With just a tiny bit of money thrown at the engine ive seen them run in the high 6's in the 1/8 mile, and im talking about completely stock bottom ends and all, just a few after market pieces. I would love to have one if they were a little easier to find, the cost of them now are just too much also.

 

[Jim Prower]

It's not that...it's when performance Buicks come up that thing's ALWAYS in the conversation, usually dominating it. What happened to the Wildcat? The GS455? The boattail Riveria?

Tired of hearing about GNX this, GNX that. It was only produced ONE year, and most of them around aren't the real thing, just hopped-up and rebadged T-types and GNs.

I'm not saying it wasn't a wonderful car, It's just overcovered. LIke the '57.

 

[breakpoint]

Well it is one of buicks best, but not the only one so I get what your saying. There is one for sale in my city right now that is just perfect, its the real deal with only 70k on it too. Of course it didn't have a price on it, if something doesn't have a price on it then that means you can't afford it!

 

[Tornado]

Just an explanation:
It is likely no one talks about those because you could just as easily go to the dealership across the street and get the rough performance equivalent. Want a Wildcat? Why not get a Gran Prix instead. Want a GS455? What about a Chevelle SS454 or a Cutlass 442. Want a Riviera? You could get and Eldorado or Toronado instead.
The GNX (and Grand National to a lesser extent), however, was the only thing on the platform at the time that was worth a damn. The closest you could get to a GNX in 1987 was an Aerocoupe Monte Carlo SS or a Cutlass Supreme 442.

 

[breakpoint]

Monte Carlos SS? Worthless. A whopping 180hp from a light breathing 305.

 

[JCE]

Monte Carlos SS? Worthless. A whopping 180hp from a light breathing 305.

You're forgetting the main point to the 305/350 of that era. TORQUE. Blah blah blah my Camaro V8 only has a rated 170bhp--but wait until the rated 255tq gets unleashed. Torque wins at the lights not horsepower.

 

[Omnis]

modern four-bangers get 255 torques.

 

[Tornado]

You're forgetting the main point to the 305/350 of that era. TORQUE. Blah blah blah my Camaro V8 only has a rated 170bhp--but wait until the rated 255tq gets unleashed. Torque wins at the lights not horsepower.

The base Grand National in 1987 had 100 more pound feet than that anyways, so what is your point? I could probably outrun a '87 Monte Carlo SS in my Blazer.

 

[Jay]

You're forgetting the main point to the 305/350 of that era. TORQUE. Blah blah blah my Camaro V8 only has a rated 170bhp--but wait until the rated 255tq gets unleashed. Torque wins at the lights not horsepower.

With a engine of 5 litre+ capacity torque like that is a given, but to only have 170bhp means the engine couldn't rev or couldn't hold much torque through the rev range above 4000-4500rpm+.

I have driven a few 80's 305/350's (one being a 305HO) and the unleashing certainly wasn't anything to rave on about.

 

[Philly]

Anybody know how well this thing does against the Modeo over in Europe? Hopefully this thing will be competitive against the Fusion or something. And maybe if GM feels like putting 350 hp into it, we'll see a Fusion with the EcoBoost, which would be awesome.

 

[JCE]

The base Grand National in 1987 had 100 more pound feet than that anyways, so what is your point? I could probably outrun a '87 Monte Carlo SS in my Blazer.

My point was to defend the honor of my engine in my car. I don't like people dogging on it. And I doubt your Blazer would outrun my Camaro in stock form. But this is getting off topic so I digress.

With a engine of 5 litre+ capacity torque like that is a given, but to only have 170bhp means the engine couldn't rev or couldn't hold much torque through the rev range above 4000-4500rpm+.

I have driven a few 80's 305/350's (one being a 305HO) and the unleashing certainly wasn't anything to rave on about.

*shrugs* I thought so. I definately had more fun driving my Camaro than any 4cyl car I've owned.

But again this is quite offtopic.