The Caterham Cup - FinishedPS4

[IfAndOr]

Whats the deal with track limits / penalties because there's a lot of room for interpretation.

Track limits will be set on. I'm setting the allowed time limit quite high and usually you can remove the warning just by easing off a little - no need to brake.

Do you know what the penalty is for exceeding limits and not slowing down?

For this long race the drive through penalty option will be set to on (I'll add that above) so repeated track infractions should result in that.

Will pitstops be automatic (or whatever the correct term is for all I have to do is drive to the pit entry and AI does the rest)?

Yes they will be set to automatic. It'll give you a chance to let go of the wheel for a while as the game takes over. By the way you can still adjust your pit strategy while rolling along the pit lane, it can be easier than while on track.

The pit exit penalty will be off because it tends to throw you onto the track as you leave the pits!

 

[Pantheons]

Found this quite interesting PC2 Pit Guide, and Pit Strategy, maybe only useful for me, and i know some of its not relevant or automated. I didnt know you can have some randomness attached to the pit crew so they 'might' make a mistake.
Pit Stops

Strategy

 

[Hun200kmh]

A quick test yesterday made it clear that accelerated tyre wear is extreme, at least with wet tyres, so beware ...

1.59 is the target time???? wow, a lot of work needed to reach that, my best dry lap is more than 5 full seconds off (although I suppose such a lap time must imply tuning the car, reducing downfore/drag)

Paul, about the damage model, "visual only" is a bit unrealistic on the eye, even if you end up without the front wings the car still corners as if nothing was changed, it is funny to watch on replays but downgrades the game a bit. Maybe you can consider putting damage OFF therefore the cars behave as they look.

 

[IfAndOr]

Maybe you can consider putting damage OFF therefore the cars behave as they look.

Yes I think I'll do that. Since these machines have no bonnets to fly up or windows that crack the visual damage makes little difference to the actual driving.

And yes accelerated wear is going to have an impact on how you treat your tyres! Extra point if you can complete the race on one set.
Remember there's fuel usage to think about as well. It's going to be a race about strategy as much as the driving.

I didnt know you can have some randomness attached to the pit crew so they 'might' make a mistake.

I normally have that switched off for our races since that's out of the drivers control.

The ICM is a great idea but is very awkward to use while on track. It needs a little practice to find your way around it. Speech recognition would be a nice addition, you could speak to the pit crew then.

 

[Oldbass47]

Have we got to select car numbers Paul?

 

[IfAndOr]

Have we got to select car numbers Paul?

You certainly can if you want to. But since it's only a one off event it's not critical. You could pick out a livery that no one is using on the day. I'll allow a few extra minutes for everyone to swap and change cars to suit.

Have you tried the Formula Renault? Did you like it?



Something is happening over HERE chaps. Not sure what it is yet though.

 

[Napalm_LT]

my best dry lap is more than 5 full seconds off

It's on dry or wet track? I did my first run too, best lap 2:02.860 on dry track, summer, medium cloud. Don't think I can find a second (3 is mission imposible).

BTW #5 for me please.

 

[Hun200kmh]

#14 for me please!

Last night I did a couple of runs, entered the 2.02 also (you got me worried there Napalm ... ).

My early impressions:

1 - Car is great, predictable and well planted, should allow all to have some good racing with few mistakes

2 - Of course, it's a open wheeler so much like the caterham seven we will all need to be careful to not get the wheels tangled between two cars.

3 - Tyre wear is the greatest issue in this event. Only a miracle will make a set of tyres (dry or wet) last more than 6 to 7 laps (and 7 is pushing it). This means about 15 minutes per stint (if weather conditions remain the same for that amount of time), so in a 75 minytes race we will all need to pit a few times (5? 6? )

4 - I think we will all need ABS on for this one, makes a HUGE difference in front tyre wear. I for one will definitely use it, I suggest everyone uses it also.

5 - The dry/wet/dry dynamic is well recreated regarding the track. We must keep in mind that the track gets wet very quickly, so the advent of rain in a dry track changes things rapidly (meaning, if you hold out from switching tyres for another lap you can suffer severe - spinny spinny - consequences before that extra lap ends).

6 - The opposite however happens when the sun shines through the clouds, signaling the end of rain. The track takes a LOT of time to dry out and it is really tricky to decide when to change back to slicks. Tyre degradation, already severe, becomes a real problem when a dry line appears and you have to decide if you want to destroy your wet tyres by following it (quickest line) or if you want to keep them a litle longer and fresher and go through the wet parts of the track to do so ...

7 - Puddles are manageable, the nastiest ones that I have noticed are:

a) within the rumble strip at Stavelot (fast right before the flat out section leading to the bus stop chicane). Keep the right front tyre well away from the rumble strip;

b) on the inside of the left corner (second part of the chicane) leading to the main straight. Take a wide line there (the puddle is not on the rumble strip here, it is on the black stuff itself);

If anyone has located other(s) do tell !

 

[Napalm_LT]

#14 for me please!

Last night I did a couple of runs, entered the 2.02 also (you got me worried there Napalm ... ).

My early impressions:

1 - Car is great, predictable and well planted, should allow all to have some good racing with few mistakes

2 - Of course, it's a open wheeler so much like the caterham seven we will all need to be careful to not get the wheels tangled between two cars.

3 - Tyre wear is the greatest issue in this event. Only a miracle will make a set of tyres (dry or wet) last more than 6 to 7 laps (and 7 is pushing it). This means about 15 minutes per stint (if weather conditions remain the same for that amount of time), so in a 75 minytes race we will all need to pit a few times (5? 6? )

4 - I think we will all need ABS on for this one, makes a HUGE difference in front tyre wear. I for one will definitely use it, I suggest everyone uses it also.

5 - The dry/wet/dry dynamic is well recreated regarding the track. We must keep in mind that the track gets wet very quickly, so the advent of rain in a dry track changes things rapidly (meaning, if you hold out from switching tyres for another lap you can suffer severe - spinny spinny - consequences before that extra lap ends).

6 - The opposite however happens when the sun shines through the clouds, signaling the end of rain. The track takes a LOT of time to dry out and it is really tricky to decide when to change back to slicks. Tyre degradation, already severe, becomes a real problem when a dry line appears and you have to decide if you want to destroy your wet tyres by following it (quickest line) or if you want to keep them a litle longer and fresher and go through the wet parts of the track to do so ...

7 - Puddles are manageable, the nastiest ones that I have noticed are:

a) within the rumble strip at Stavelot (fast right before the flat out section leading to the bus stop chicane). Keep the right front tyre well away from the rumble strip;

b) on the inside of the left corner (second part of the chicane) leading to the main straight. Take a wide line there (the puddle is not on the rumble strip here, it is on the black stuff itself);

If anyone has located other(s) do tell !

Probably dynamic whether and right decisions according to it can be big issue for our first endurance race.

 

[Pantheons]

I think i'll try a practise tonight (about 7pm) if anyones around, with dry / wet / dry / wet weather. I need to practise pit stops and tyre changes.

 

[IfAndOr]

I'm sorry I've just caught up with the last few messages, I've been busy sorting out the new championship and missed the alert!

But I'll highlight this important point

Of course, it's a open wheeler so much like the caterham seven we will all need to be careful to not get the wheels tangled between two cars.

It's a very long race that might be decided on strategy so please be patient when near other cars. Damage is off but contact is on!

If anyone has located other(s) do tell !

Unless it continuously pours down (which it won't now) I think that's it. It's the reason I picked Spa in fact.

 

[Pantheons]

Only found one video (or info) online about what happens when your types actually run out of rubber (ie no green left). It looks like the engine just stops? Might test that out later.....

BTW grand prix tomorrow... i'll be watching the highlights, which is the same day but later in the evening, AFTER the race has finished. I hope to watch it without knowing the results :-)

 

[Hun200kmh]

Did a full distance test this morning. AI set at 110/25, 4 weather slots (light rain/clear/light rain/clear). The AIs make their tyres last a lot longer than we poor humans and also they hold it together better when mixed conditions apply (as in, when you already changed to slicks and the track is damp you will make mistakes. They may go slower but make NO mistakes)

It was interesting, main thing to keep in mind is that one full tank doesn't last the 1h15. If you want to check any specifics of this test (like, how many laps did my tyres last, when did I pit, how much fuel did I add, etc) just pick moments from the race, as viewed by me in this video

 

[IfAndOr]

During the practice session for the Formula Renault I joined yesterday weather and patterns were mentioned.

I've had bits of information scattered around on various bit of paper but thought I'd better group them all together and type them up. So while working on the new series I've spent a rainy afternoon working out a sets of semi realistic weather patterns for races up to 1 hour long. Slots, change rates etc.

If anyone finds it useful/interesting here's the bit relating to weather patterns!

Spoiler: Whether to use weather

Time and weather 1 hour equivalent rates.
2X = 30mins
5X = 12mins
10X = 6 mins
20X = 3 mins
25X = 2.4 mins
30X = 2mins.

Use for time of day, progression and weather calculations.


Semi realistic weather change progression rates. If required.
There is a degree of randomness built in to PC2's weather system, the timing of the changes between weather patterns can vary so on occasions it's not always possible to predict precisely.

Race
Length
10 mins / 3 slots / x 10 = 2 weather patterns with probable 3rd. Rain 1st slot then 2 dry.
10 mins / 2 slots / x5 = 1 pattern. Slight chance of a weather change.

15 mins / 3 slots / x10 = 3 patterns. If rain used place in 1st slot.
15 mins / 2 slots / x5 = 1 pattern with a probable change to another.

20 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns. Group 2 dry for a 13 min period. Rain best 1st.
20 mins / 4 slots / x 10 = 3 patterns with probable 4th. Similar to above but with the extra slot.
20 mins / 3 slots / x5 = 2 patterns. Slight chance of a 3nd.

25 mins / 2 slots / X2 = 1 pattern. Slight chance of a 2nd.
25 mins / 2 slots / Sync = 2 patterns with changes at approximately 12½ minute intervals.
25 mins / 3 slots / x5 = 2 patterns. Possibly a 3rd.

30 mins / 2 slots / x2 = 1 pattern with a possibility of a 2nd.
30 mins / 2 slots / Sync = 2 patterns with changes at approximately 15 minute intervals.
30 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 3 patterns. 4th slot for very slight rollover chance.

35 mins / 2 slots / x2 = 2 patterns with a late change.
35 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns with changes at approximately 11½ minute intervals.
35 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 3 patterns. Possibly a 4th.

40 mins / 2 slots / x2 = 2 patterns. 2nd one shorter.
40 mins / 2 slots / Sync = 2 patterns with a change at approximately 20 minutes.
40 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns with changes at approximately 13 minute intervals.
40 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 3 patterns. Most probably 4.

45 mins / 2 slots / x 2 = 2 patterns. 2nd one about ½ the length of 1st
45 mins / 2 slots / Sync = 2 patterns with a change at approximately 22½ minutes.
45 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns with changes at approximately 15 minute intervals.
45 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 4 patterns. Slight chance of a 5th - rollover.

50 mins / 2 slots / x2 = 2 patterns. Maybe a bit long if wet?
50 mins / 3 slots / x5 = 3 patterns with a probable rollover if needed.
50 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns with changes at approximately 17 minute intervals.
50 mins / 4 slots / Sync = 4 patterns with changes at approximately 12½ minute intervals.
50 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 4 patterns, probably a 5th - rollover.

55 mins / 2 slots / Sync = 2 patterns with changes at approximately 27½ minute intervals.
55 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns with changes at approximately 18 minute intervals.
55 mins / 3 slots / x2 = 2 patterns. Possibly a 3rd.
55 mins / 4 slots / Sync = 4 patterns with changes at approximately 14 minute intervals.
55 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 5 patterns 1x rollover. Probable 6th.

60 mins / 2 slots / Sync = 2 approximately 30 min patterns
60 mins / 3 slots / x2 = 2 patterns. Possibly a 3rd.
60 mins / 3 slots / Sync = 3 patterns with changes at approximately 20 minute intervals.
60 mins / 4 slots / Sync = 4 patterns with changes at approximately 15 minute intervals.
60 mins / 4 slots / x5 = 6 patterns, 2 x rollover. Possible 7th.

After 50 mins the 5x progression starts to roll around - which can be OK for repeating weather patterns. Sync to race becomes more useful then.

X 5 - Weather progression rate gives the best transition to rain. More than that gets somewhat unrealistic but can be used to create various effects, occasional repeating fog or quick bursts of rain etc.
Depending of settings it's best not to accelerate rain/snow too much because a lot of water is generated in too short a period and the tracks can get over puddled. Light rain can possibly be OK.

Rain/snow as the 1st pattern works best if accelerated times are used - wet track to start.

There will probably be more on seasons, dates time of day in relation to track conditions!

In between I'm now working on a random weather generation system that gives varying chances of precipitation but avoids the too extreme weather in the game. It currently involves my old Dungeons and Dragons dice.


I've been doing some testing with the AI too! Try the AI at 79 skill and 100 aggression. They are still quite quick but I find they make more mistakes.

 

[IfAndOr]

Unfortunately Ricardo (@GTP_RPREGO) can't join us this evening but Mario (@Hun200kmh) has another friend who'd like to have a go. So don't worry if you see a driver called "raeggee" on the grid, that'll be him.


As I said initially this is just a tester race to see how we all get on, it won't be a regular thing. So get your drinks, nibbles, comfortable seat and toilet visits sorted out for later.


Note: The "cool down" lap feature will be active for this race. Just continue driving, not racing, at the end of the race and return to the pits. I thought it suitable for a long race.

 

[Saltyjoe90]

So don't worry if you see a driver called "raeggee" on the grid, that'll be him.

So long as he doesn't blast Bob Marley down the mic it's all good . (In a practice session on the weekend a guy played really loud music with his mic left on, distracting!)

 

[Pantheons]

Is there a protocol for emergencies (ie, have to leave the wheel /controller for 1 min because <add your favourite unplanned reason> ).

A. Park up in some safe spot? But maybe PC2 will time you out for "no progress made"
B. Leave the car gently rolling on a down slope on the track as a fun hazard, and hope to get back by the next corner.
C. Set a 'time out' somehow in the pits?
D. If the house / apartment / shed, is burning down, you still finish the race albeit with realistic injuries.

Does the cool down lap (i guess you are ghosted at that point, just in case?) actually have any bearing / effect on the race, apart from adds nicely to the realism

 

[IfAndOr]

@Saltyjoe90 - In the lobby screen you can click on anybody's name and select mute. Or a long press of the PS button brings up the Quick Menu where you can select "Disable Game Chat Audio" to bring about total silence.

Is there a protocol for emergencies

Since this is just a race created over a short period I haven't really planed for anything!

1. You could do. I'm not sure about the game timing you out though.
2. Hmm, probably best not to.
3. Now this is something I was considering for future races, compulsory timed pitstops. It could be done using the manual pitstop option. However since this is our 1st long race I didn't want to complicate things too much this time. Maybe at Daytona in the BMW series.
4. You'll of course be wearing your flame retardant race suit and helmet anyway so hopefully they will help in that situation.

No you remain non ghosted during the cool down lap so keep out of the way of anyone still racing. It doesn't have any bearing on the results but it's just a realistic way to finish the race while those behind complete their laps.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I am not sure of this and I won't have time to test before the event but I think that when you pit , even after your car has been serviced you can just stay there for as long as you want without getting disqualified.

 

[IfAndOr]

I think that when you pit , even after your car has been serviced you can just stay there for as long as you want without getting disqualified.

You can when using manual stops but not with the automatic ones we're using this evening, it releases you back onto the track.

 

[AndreasR]

i´ll have to sit out this week´s racing because i won´t be home in time today. Have a nice one.

 

[IfAndOr]

i´ll have to sit out this week´s racing because i won´t be home in time today. Have a nice one.

OK Andreas, you'll be missed. Hopefully we'll see you next time in the BMWs.

 

[Oldbass47]

You certainly can if you want to. But since it's only a one off event it's not critical. You could pick out a livery that no one is using on the day. I'll allow a few extra minutes for everyone to swap and change cars to suit.

Have you tried the Formula Renault? Did you like it?

Like the car but not the pit stops. I'm always

Something is happening over HERE chaps. Not sure what it is yet though.

You certainly can if you want to. But since it's only a one off event it's not critical. You could pick out a livery that no one is using on the day. I'll allow a few extra minutes for everyone to swap and change cars to suit.

Have you tried the Formula Renault? Did you like it?
Cars great Paul but can't get on with the pit stops. Always pressing wrong button which throws everything out. End up with the same as what started the race with. I've even watched the ICM pit strategy by O65 Yorkie


Something is happening over HERE chaps. Not sure what it is yet though.

 

[IfAndOr]

Cars great Paul but can't get on with the pit stops. Always pressing wrong button which throws everything out. End up with the same as what started the race with. I've even watched the ICM pit strategy by O65 Yorkie

It definitely can be awkward @Oldbass47. Default can work as long as you leave it until it becomes wet or dry. Otherwise the pit crew will, as you say, leave the same tyres on! I'd suggest making a couple of strategies and pre select one of them before the race. If you make the first a change for wets you won't go far wrong. You just need to select the one for slicks if it dries out then.

 

[IfAndOr]

Since the poster up-ers of the results were absent, here you go.

Race below

Qualifying above.

Not as neat I know but it's what you're getting.

Well done to all.



And while I'm thinking about it and since Mario asked. What you experienced, with a bit of the game's progression randomness was...

Duration 1:15
Date - 21 August 2017
Start Time -16:00
Time Progression - 2x
Season - Summer
Weather slots - 4
Overcast / Fog with rain / Light Rain / Light cloud
Weather progression - Sync to race (works out to about 19ish minute intervals)

 

[Hun200kmh]

My POV video

 

[Napalm_LT]

My POV video

If not a puddle at the last chicane, your second to the end lap would be below 2:02

 

[Hun200kmh]

If not a puddle at the last chicane, your second to the end lap would be below 2:02

Well, what could I do by then than try a lap to be remembered!


Regarding my POV, I posted without seeing it first, but now had the chance to review (parts of) it. Also watched highlights from the replay I saved (sadly it only saved close to the first 40 minutes of the race ... )

So, not exactly a quick recap but I have found two important things I'd like to share.

1st - @richroo, I wholeheartedly apologize for the bump that sent you off (after 12:30 in my POV video). I didn't notice it at the time (didn't feel it in the wheel or heard any in-game noise) and only thought at the time that you had probably locked wheels under braking and lost your car. After viewing my POV video I got suspicious so went to check the PS4 race replay from all angles (your car, my car, outside, chase cam, slow motion, etc) and definitely I gave you a very slight bump, hardly noticeable but strong enough to just unbalance your car , with dire consequences. Can't give you the place back now so please accept my apology, both for the bump and for not waiting after it.

2nd - When rain started we all pitted. However, of all the ones that pitted, at least 5 came out of the pits NOT using wet tyres. They were: @Napalm_LT ; @xeronima ; @richroo ; raeggee; @half_sourly .

So, what happened to these 5? I'm no Sherlock, but this is what I think:

raeggee, basically a rookie regarding PCars2, was unfamiliar with everything related to pit strategies, wanted to change to wets but somehow changed to slicks again

(I did my best to give him a quick tutorial, but he botched it royally LOL, wrong tyres, ending the race without fuel ... poor guy, and on pace alone he was doing rather well, was racing in the top 5 until ... he had to pit )

xeronima and Half_Sourly I'm not sure. Maybe it was like raeggee and so by mistake they fitted slicks (xeronima couldn't control his car after pitting and gave up on the race entirely in the out lap; half_sourly also had great trouble to keep the car pointing forward and eventually quit also agfter some time)

However ... and here's the interesting part.

Napalm and Richard I am sure made no mistake here. The replay doesn't show what kind of tyres was fitted but I'm guessing either they were slicks and somehow these two found a way (messing with brake balance and roll bar stiffness?) to make them work in wet conditions, or they were those "comp" tyres (maybe they work as good intermediate tyres ?? )

Viewing the replay it is quite clear the difference between raeggee (on slicks by mistake) and Richard, they left the pits in that order and raeggee couldn't handle the car, only took a few corners for him to lose it and for Richard to pass.

So, what happened to them? Well, up until the 40 minutes I have of replay they were clearly matching the pace of everyone on wets. Eventually I caught Napalm and took the lead of the race, but then ... Napalm's tyres lasted for many MANY more laps than what I could do.

Richard eventually quit the race but I can't see why, the PS4 race replay ends before that happened.

All in all, very intriguing. It just shows nothing beats proper testing and tuning

A final word to say to all that I have to speak here in raeggee's behalf because he's a bloke that, although talented for all things racing, barely knows how to go online with the PS4, is totally unfamiliar with internet forums and probably still thinks "social media" refers to socialist TV, radio and newspapers (have to show him this post, LOL )

So, speaking in his behalf (we had a debrief yesterday by phone) I am tasked to tell you that he enjoyed the event immensely* and thanks you all, especially Paul, for accepting him as wild card for this race. He regrest his poor showing after pit stops became required and the permanent yellow flag in the second sector during the last few laps (LOL again ).

*(although his race ended without fame, glory ... or fuel and he still doesn't know how to setup a race strategy and even less to change or adjust it while racing )

 

[xeronima]

xeronima and Half_Sourly I'm not sure. Maybe it was like raeggee and so by mistake they fitted slicks (xeronima couldn't control his car after pitting and gave up on the race entirely in the out lap; half_sourly also had great trouble to keep the car pointing forward and eventually quit also agfter some time)

First time I experienced that the pit crew only worked half time as they only changed my front tires. So I had slicks at the rear and wets at the front. Every steering input or throttle change caused an immediate spin.

So I rage quit and will lay my vengeance upon the pit crew.

 

[half_sourly]

2nd - When rain started we all pitted. However, of all the ones that pitted, at least 5 came out of the pits NOT using wet tyres. They were: @Napalm_LT ; @xeronima ; @richroo ; raeggee; @half_sourly .

My first pitstop was just as it started raining. My pit strategy was "match weather" or whatever that is called, but I clearly put too much faith in the intelligence of the game, because it fitted another pair of slicks. So next lap I went in again and this time they fitted wets.

So, what happened to these 5? I'm no Sherlock, but this is what I think:

xeronima and Half_Sourly I'm not sure. Maybe it was like raeggee and so by mistake they fitted slicks (xeronima couldn't control his car after pitting and gave up on the race entirely in the out lap; half_sourly also had great trouble to keep the car pointing forward and eventually quit also agfter some time)

I lost control of the car after my third stop actually. My tyres were wearing thin and it was still raining, so I went into the pits, changed the tyre selection to wet in the strategy ICM; they seemed to fit wets (I can only see the front ones obviously, and they were wet), but when I started driving I had almost no control. I managed to get up to Kemmel, but couldn't keep the car going straight. I spun off maybe 3 times and then quit.

I am pretty sure (but I didn't save the race clearly, so can't check), that the colour of my car changed after that pitstop. I was using 17, the black and yellow, but am fairly sure that it was white or light blue after that pitstop.

Anyway, lesson learnt about not assuming the game will choose the correct tyres; I will make WET and DRY strategies.

Really, really annoyed about my first lap. Qualified well and thought all the practice (I did a few 20 to 30 minute races over the week) would pay off. But despite not spinning once, not once, during the whole week of practice, I spun twice in the first lap. All I can think is, certainly for the first one, that it had to do with aero interruption by following the two in front of me closely.