The detailing and washing thread

[///M-Spec]

Hey Moglet, (the 500 is looking good as usual, btw) how long does a coat of the Supernatural last?

I can't see going the extra step for a real Carnauba wax for the S4, since silver paint is the poster child for diminishing returns. But once I get the wife's allroad spiffed up (I'm going to respray the front bumper next week) I could see giving it a shot.

Back in the day, I used to use Zymol's Carnauba on my Cosmos Black E36 M3. Breathtaking for about 7 days. But with the intense Florida heat it was more or less gone in about 2-3 weeks. I didn't know about synthetic sealants at the time, so it was a real disappointment for me.

I might give Carnauba another shot in the fall. Besides, my mum has a nice blue Lexus and I could surprise her with a detail.


M

 

[Moglet]

Hey Moglet, (the 500 is looking good as usual, btw) how long does a coat of the Supernatural last?

I can't see going the extra step for a real Carnauba wax for the S4, since silver paint is the poster child for diminishing returns. But once I get the wife's allroad spiffed up (I'm going to respray the front bumper next week) I could see giving it a shot.

Back in the day, I used to use Zymol's Carnauba on my Cosmos Black E36 M3. Breathtaking for about 7 days. But with the intense Florida heat it was more or less gone in about 2-3 weeks. I didn't know about synthetic sealants at the time, so it was a real disappointment for me.

I might give Carnauba another shot in the fall. Besides, my mum has a nice blue Lexus and I could surprise her with a detail.


M

In the UK weather (Which is generally lots of rain followed by the odd sunny day) it has been known to last 3-4 months, some people have quoted even longer. I previously used Finish Kare 1000 which has been tested to last well over 5 months, but it doesn't have that same 'warmth' to it that you get with Carnauba.

It gives some nice beading and sheeting too, this is after a heavy rainfall recently;

 

[breakpoint]

That first picture is great, thats art! What do some of you recommend for me to use on my wifes van that isn't too involved? In our apartment complex there isn't even a place to wash your auto so i have to go somewhere like a carwash, i usually carry a bucket and wash mit and goto a wash close that doesn't care if i was from a bucket. I don't really want to spend a huge amount of time waxing and all because its not a show auto, i was looking at the sprays made by mothers but just don't know what kind of results they would give. I want it to look good but its not required to look jaw dropping, just nice and clean with a decent luster. Any products anyone could recommend for this? Also if you do have some to mention im in the us so please don't tease me with a certain one that i can't get locally

 

[///M-Spec]

Depends on what condition the paint on your wife's van is in. Good? Fair? Bad? Is it dark or light colored? How old is it? Any scratches, oxidation or swirl marks? If it's a typical daily driver, there will probably be some 'fixing' that will need done.

There are some combo products that work very well and have a great cost/benefit ratio. But if you want your paint to look like Moglet's then you're talking about a lot of time, money and effort.


M

 

[breakpoint]

Depends on what condition the paint on your wife's van is in. Good? Fair? Bad? Is it dark or light colored? How old is it? Any scratches, oxidation or swirl marks? If it's a typical daily driver, there will probably be some 'fixing' that will need done.

There are some combo products that work very well and have a great cost/benefit ratio. But if you want your paint to look like Moglet's then you're talking about a lot of time, money and effort.


M

Paint is in fair condition, has some swirl marks in the clear from years of washing etc., basically typical. It is this color and a 2004 Dodge Caravan. No scratches, and its a typical daily driver. The color is fairly strange, looks like a silver metallic with a green pearl in the clear. Its just a mini van so im not looking to make it look like a foose show car, just make it look better, so a ton of time isn't what im looking for in the paint

 

[///M-Spec]

Here's my suggestions:

Over the counter products

OPTIONAL STEP (if you have a lot of time) - Clay the van using whatever claybar kit you can find over the counter. 3M and Mothers has retail kits. They're all pretty much the same in my experience. Figure 2-3 hours to do the van. Time consuming but worth it if you really want to go the extra mile.

Step 1 - Polish

Meguiar's #9 Swirl Remover OR Mother's California Gold Pre-Wax Cleaner - They usually carry these items in PepBoys, Autozone or Discount Auto, etc. Sometimes I see one or the other in Walmart and Target. I've used these on and off over the years and they both work pretty well. And they're not stupidly expensive. They will clean and polish the paint in one step, providing a good foundation for waxing/sealing.

Step 2 - Wax/Seal

I recommend a fully synthetic polymer sealant instead of a true wax. The reason is because they are less work to apply/remove and they last longer. They don't shine as deeply as a good wax, but I think you'll find the trade-off worth it in your case.

Meguair's #21 Synthetic Sealant OR Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax. I haven't personally used #21, but have used Meguair's other stuff for years and they are solid products. The NXT is on the expensive side for what it is, but delivers good, consistent results. I've used it on my wife's cars from time to time. It's a little 'clinical' or 'cold' in terms of shine, but hey it's not like you're taking the Caravan to Pebble Beach or something. You can find these pretty much anywhere; Target, Walmart, etc.

Mother's California Gold Sealer is also a pretty good choice, though I haven't used it in many years. Truthfully, the over the counter retail stuff is pretty similar to one another.

DO NOT BUY THE SPRAY STUFF It is okay for between waxes but doesn't do a good job without a proper foundation and lasts about as long as it does for you to apply.

OR

Order online

You can buy 1 container of Klasse All-in-One at autogeek.net or properautocare.com and do everything in one pass. It is not cheap, but I swear by it. It can be applied by hand as well. Take a look at the SAAB I did in my previous posts. Wonderful stuff.

There is MUCH FANCIER stuff out there, including the Blackfire line that I use for my own car, but nothing in my experience can beat Klasse for effort vs. reward.


Either way you choose, keep these in mind:

1) Do not work in direct sunlight. Find a shady spot or borrow a friend's garage if you can't. Sunlight will heat up the product and the paint and you will have a big streaky mess on your hands.

2) Use a good microfiber applicator. This is very important. When you are polishing the paint, you want a certain amount of 'cut' so the imperfections are "rounded off" and hidden. In my experience, you simply can't achieve this with a plain cotton terry cloth. I use a DA polisher and they make pads for each job. Moglet does all his work by hand, and maybe he'll chime in with what he's using.

3) Use clean towels to buff off the product. Go to Target and buy a cheap pack of Voom microfiber towels. Throw them in the gentle cycle to wash once. Dry them on low or no heat and they'll be ready to go. Make sure they're clean! Years ago I made the mistake of reusing the towels I washed with to do the detailing ---EPIC FAIL!

Hope that helps.


M

 

[Moglet]

2) Use a good microfiber applicator. This is very important. When you are polishing the paint, you want a certain amount of 'cut' so the imperfections are "rounded off" and hidden. In my experience, you simply can't achieve this with a plain cotton terry cloth. I use a DA polisher and they make pads for each job. Moglet does all his work by hand, and maybe he'll chime in with what he's using.

I use a microfibre applicator to work any polish by hand, using a decent amount of pressure but not 'pushing' onto it, as this can increase marring. I work it in circular motions over the same area until the product starts to become clear. You will only need a little bit of product and it will need to be worked in thoroughly, not just hazed on and then buffed off. 👍

 

[breakpoint]

Woah, thanks for all that info, thats a very good reply! About how far in general would i expect the 10oz bottle of Klasse All-in-One to go? I wouldn't mind getting the 33oz but anything larger and my wallet just isn't having it. I think i will stick to using my DA to do all the work for me since i have one and have a few years experience using it in body work so i won't have to worry about cutting or burning. I have some really good 3M cutter left over from when i did body work that i used to cut after i wet sanded that works fairly well so im one step ahead on that. I have actually used it to remove some fairly bad swirl marks in some clear when one of my mates washed his car before i told him to after i had sprayed it, the clear was still too soft to wash. I was impressed with how well that saab looked so i think i will go with the klasse product.

 

[///M-Spec]

No problem. A 10oz bottle should be good for 3-4 passes minimum on a mid size car. A little Klasse goes a long way (har har). After you get the pad sufficiently lubricated, figure you'll use about 2 or 3 quarter sized blob of product per average body panel. Maybe 4 for the hood and roof.

If you've got a DA polisher, be sure to use a pad with medium to light cut when using Klasse. They're usually advertised specifically as polishing pads. A compound pad is too abrasive and a finishing pad is not abrasive enough. Lake Country makes a CCS polish pad (which is green), which is the recommended pad.

Not sure exactly how many OPMs to set the polisher for; I just set my Porter Cable to "3 1/2", which I presume is around 3600.


Take some pics so we can see how it turns out!


M

 

[breakpoint]

Will do! Won't be too soon but as soon as i do i will shoot some before and afters to show all the help you gave me in action! Cheers

 

[GTP_Ingram]

Hi Moglet, this thread looks incredibly handy for me, as I want my car to look my best when it gets sold soon!

Anyhoo, I saw the Corsa you cleaned a few pages back and I was wondering; what did you use to get the plastics looking so black? I also have a mark in one of the rubbing strips in the rear bumper where some dosy sod in a car park must have bumped into me, and as a result the plastic has gone a paler shade at this point. Do you know whether the stuff you used would hide this?

 

[Moglet]

Hi Moglet, this thread looks incredibly handy for me, as I want my car to look my best when it gets sold soon!

Anyhoo, I saw the Corsa you cleaned a few pages back and I was wondering; what did you use to get the plastics looking so black? I also have a mark in one of the rubbing strips in the rear bumper where some dosy sod in a car park must have bumped into me, and as a result the plastic has gone a paler shade at this point. Do you know whether the stuff you used would hide this?

It wouldn't hide it, no, as all it does is put a layer of silicone on top of the bumper plastic. I use Autoglym Bumper Care as it comes as a gel that really seems to coat the plastic well. It also leaves it fairly water proof and it will bead and sheet off any water that comes into contact with it.

 

[Joey D]

The winter wasn't friendly to my car as all. The whole front is nicked up pretty bad, apart from having the front resprayed what can I do to fill in the nicks? Most of them are down to sheet metal it seems.

And what are your guy's thoughts on tire shine?

 

[breakpoint]

The winter wasn't friendly to my car as all. The whole front is nicked up pretty bad, apart from having the front resprayed what can I do to fill in the nicks? Most of them are down to sheet metal it seems.

And what are your guy's thoughts on tire shine?

I'm lucky with the whole winter thing here in Alabama, there is no need for salting the roads and all the nasty stuff that hurts cars. But the downside is when it does snow a little people go freaking nuts like its the end of the world, they drive like idiots, and don't understand that when a car is on ice that it slides!

About the tire shine, I usually just stick with what I have always used and what I love, Blackmagic. It works well and isn't expensive at all. I know there are much better products, but I am happy with BM and it works well for me, also smells really good

Girl thats Juvenile...you don't know he on fire
17 inch Momo's...black magic on his tires....

 

[Joey D]

Michigan is broke so we mix rock salt with sand to make our salt supply last longer. This is something I don't understand since Detroit sits on top of one of the largest salt deposits in the world. So when I'm not getting salt crystals thrown at my car, it's getting sand blasted. Then when it all melts the road comes apart and little pieces of asphalt fling up and nick the car. It's awful.

Ya I have the Black Magic stuff for my tire, it was on sale at O'Reily's. I was just wondering how people felt about it. It looked awesome on the Blazer because the tires had more of a profile, but on the lower profile Cooper tires I can't tell if it looks good or tacky.

 

[breakpoint]

I love the Blackmagic, it looks dripping wet and stands up pretty well as far as lasting goes, and its cheap!

 

[Sniffs]

got a bit of a challenge for ya, moggie.


you guys over there ever have to put up with your composite headlamps getting fogged out/hazed over/turn yellow? my passenger side headlight bucket is damn near opaque due to age (the driver's side one is full of water!). i had to go buy a plastic polish to help clear it up.

 

[breakpoint]

got a bit of a challenge for ya, moggie.


you guys over there ever have to put up with your composite headlamps getting fogged out/hazed over/turn yellow? my passenger side headlight bucket is damn near opaque due to age (the driver's side one is full of water!). i had to go buy a plastic polish to help clear it up.

Thats really easy to take care of, I had those come into the garage allot. I would pull the assembly off the car and secure it in my vice, wrapped in shop rags to keep it from getting damaged of course. After that I would get out the good ol' orbital and use some 3M swirl/scratch remover/micro polish and then go to town on it, about 10 minutes later you have a crystal clear headlamp assembly once more. I have had much better results with the 3M scratch remover than the stuff that is made to take the yellowing off of them. With the water inside it issue what I have done to fix that is to put the assembly in the oven at about 200 degrees for about 10 minutes and then you should be able to pull it apart because the heat will separate the glue, from there clean all of the old off really well with acetone and apply new and put it back together:tup: I have also used that method to pull apart brand new euro style tail lights to paint that ugly chrome the color of the car I was spraying, I did my altima black because it was black, looked really good. All black lights and then nice bright red led's lit up at night:tup:

 

[Joey D]

I've been reading up on proper waxing techniques and some articles say small circles are the way to go while others say straight lines. Any thought with this? I've always been told the circles are the way to go, but I'm beginning to doubt that.

I'm also wondering about pre-wax treatments. I have Mother's Pre-wax Cleaner and Stripper but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Would it be better just to skip this stuff and focus on the clay bar?

I'd also like to throw out there that Mothers Tech Wax and Top Coat are awesome. It's hard to find and pretty expensive in stores, but I get mine off of Amazon for way cheaper.

 

[Slick Rick]

I think small circles is the way to go.....

Anyways a quick note I spent ages cleaning the wheels and after I put tyre shine on the tyres but inevitably being a spary it got onto the wheels and after a few days it mixed with the brake dust and looked terrible. I couldnt even wash or wipe it off because it became sticky!! I had to use brake dust cleaner in the end :/

So when cleaning your car I recommend putting tyre shine on the tyres first and detail the wheels second...

 

[Moglet]

I've been reading up on proper waxing techniques and some articles say small circles are the way to go while others say straight lines. Any thought with this? I've always been told the circles are the way to go, but I'm beginning to doubt that.

Providing that you cover the car totally and evenly, either technique will do. The general consensus is that circles are more likely to give you full even coverage. As far as I'm aware that's the only real difference between the two!

I'm also wondering about pre-wax treatments. I have Mother's Pre-wax Cleaner and Stripper but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Would it be better just to skip this stuff and focus on the clay bar?

It depends what you're after. Claying should only ever be done before a full polish as it actually damages the paint slightly while removing contaminants. Once every 6 months usually does the trick.

To prepare for wax you will need to ensure that the paint surface is completely clean and free of any chemicals left over from polishing or previous cleaning. A lot of people use specialist products to prepare the surface, some people use Meguairs Final Touch which technically isn't the right product but seems to do the job. If I were you I'd just stick with the Mother's product as it's designed for the job in mind. It won't make any difference at all to the visual impact of the paint but the wax should last longer.

If you want your wax coating to last as long as possible and you want to ensure full correction after a polish then use 99.9% IsoPropyl Alcohol. I bought mine as a spray and by using it on the paint before applying wax you will be able to remove every last bit of contaminant revealing any swirls you may have missed during polishing and leaving the surface perfect for applying wax. However that can work out very expensive and it's only really recommended after a full polish to spot defects.

The description on this site explains a bit more about it

I think small circles is the way to go.....

Anyways a quick note I spent ages cleaning the wheels and after I put tyre shine on the tyres but inevitably being a spary it got onto the wheels and after a few days it mixed with the brake dust and looked terrible. I couldnt even wash or wipe it off because it became sticky!! I had to use brake dust cleaner in the end :/

So when cleaning your car I recommend putting tyre shine on the tyres first and detail the wheels second...

Tyre shine works best after you've washed and dried the entire car (including wheels) as the tyres will have had time to dry and that makes it easier to see where the shiner is being applied. The best thing to ensure even coverage with no overspray or drips is to spray the shiner solution into a small bowl and apply it by brush. I do it this way and my wheels stay spotless but my tyres are completely coated. 👍

This is what I do:
-Clean wheels and tyres
-Wash car
-Dry car
-Dry wheels (if necessary)
-Apply tyre shiner with brush
-Remove excess and wait until fully dried before driving to avoid splatter

 

[Danoff]

So I've got just a slight discoloration - most likely sun damage - on the roof of my car. It's not something you notice on the car, but if you look closely, it's like you can see faint but large blotchy water spots. These don't come off with regular cleaning.

What's the right product to remove that? Polish? Clay bar? Rubbing compound? I tried polish at one point and it didn't work, but I think I may have done it wrong... if that's possible... like not waiting long enough after application or something.

Edit:

Also, if anyone reading this is looking to restore some old faded black plastic trim, I highly recommend Ultimate Tire and Trim. It took some faded grey plastic on my car that I wasn't even sure was supposed to be black and restored it to black.

 

[Moglet]

So I've got just a slight discoloration - most likely sun damage - on the roof of my car. It's not something you notice on the car, but if you look closely, it's like you can see faint but large blotchy water spots. These don't come off with regular cleaning.

What's the right product to remove that? Polish? Clay bar? Rubbing compound? I tried polish at one point and it didn't work, but I think I may have done it wrong... if that's possible... like not waiting long enough after application or something.

Polish. Clay is designed to remove tiny bits of contaminant on the paint leaving it mirror smooth to the touch. Polish is designed simply to remove a tiny layer of clearcoat and therefore removing imperfections. Hand applied polishes might not have the power to remove large areas of discolouration though, you'll need a machine polish to do that.

On a side note, looking back through this thread makes me want my 500 back The Yaris has been left abused and dirty! It would make a nice paint restoration project, though.

 

[Danoff]

Slight follow-up. When does the polish do its work, going on or coming off?

 

[Joey D]

Thanks for the info Mog! 👍

 

[Slick Rick]

Tyre shine works best after you've washed and dried the entire car (including wheels) as the tyres will have had time to dry and that makes it easier to see where the shiner is being applied. The best thing to ensure even coverage with no overspray or drips is to spray the shiner solution into a small bowl and apply it by brush. I do it this way and my wheels stay spotless but my tyres are completely coated. 👍

Thanks

What tyre shine would you recommend then, I use that turtlewax 'wet n black' spray from halfords it works well but makes a mess...

 

[Moglet]

Slight follow-up. When does the polish do its work, going on or coming off?

As it's being worked. When you first apply polish it appears as a haze, and you should keep working it until that haze becomes almost completely clear. That's why it's always better to work in small sections with a machine, it's easier to keep track of where you've been and the panel is less likely to warp under heat.

Thanks

What tyre shine would you recommend then, I use that turtlewax 'wet n black' spray from halfords it works well but makes a mess...

I use Meguairs Hot Shine

9-10 sprays into a pot (I use the lid from an old spray paint can) should do an entire tyre when applied by brush. 👍 It's a very strong shiner and it lasts for a while too.

 

[CMvan46]

Thanks

What tyre shine would you recommend then, I use that turtlewax 'wet n black' spray from halfords it works well but makes a mess...

We use Car Brite stuff here at work, works well and lasts a while as long as you let it dry well before getting wet.

To avoid the mess though we use cardboard floor liners, just a very thin flimsy piece of cardboard, and put that between the tire and the car and spray away. You avoid covering your paint (and yourself in the wind) that way and you may need to use a cloth to wipe off the rims after.

With clay bars too I don't see an issue with what Moglet said but we use them while the car is still wet after rinsing off the soap. If the car gets a bit dry in places just mist it over again. Either that or if just doing smaller segments or doing a black car to ensure we don't scratch them you use a type of spray on/wipe off wax with the clay bar. Just spray the wax on the car, clay bar that area, and then rinse it off. I've never scratched a car yet doing it those ways.

 

[motortrend]

I have been wondering what to use for my car's dash. I hate armorall since it makes it shiny but I want to clean and protect the dash/trim, any suggestions?

 

[TheBook]

I just bought my car, and instead of paying the thousand dollars or so at the dealership for their "paint protection" thing, I figured I'd just use a good wax or something to help keep the paintwork from being damaged. What do you all recommend I use, since I have no experience with this? Note that everything has to be applicable by hand, since I don't have a buffer.