The Future of Polyphony Digital

[sumbrownkid]

the day a "western producer" gets to make GT, is the day i'll stop playing new GT's..
yes, we would get skidmarks, reverse lights, leaves falling off trees, those little air freshners hanging from rearview mirrors .. but we would also have a game that would try very hard to target a wider consumer base .. i dont know about you, but i dont need another forza or nfs shift
while i could pretty well be wrong, i still wouldnt want to see for myself.

The cup holder modeling will be spectacular if a Western Developer made GT5.

Going down La Sarthe with a big Pepsi bottle at the ready reeks of epicness.

Man it's been a while I haven't been on GTP.

 

[deep_sky]

...and now a lacklustre GT Academy demo that has been trailed by the videogames media as a GT5 demo, and turned into a PR own goal.

Well this bit I do agree with. The whole thing could have been better handled by PD, especially when the game looks flat and still has tearing in.

 

[66hellfire99]

seriousley in the demo how often are you going to crash and what are you going to crash into

 

[FlareKR]

So, should I join this battle of trolls, or sit back and eat Norwegian Troll Popcorn .
In my humble (and about to be defaced) and honest opinion, PD has to open up and enlarge their "empire" to the US and Europe (US more importantly, we make the better games), and start to grow into a video game "republic" (notice the change in politics). Why do you think all the American games like NFS and Burnout get more attention and buyers? Because they're set here and catter with an INTERNATIONAL mindset for and INTERNATIONAL group. Even Square Enix has done the same.

 

[garybee]

I very much hope that it comes somewhere close to living up to expectations. PD really have their work cut out though, purely due to the anticipation of the fanbase.

It really isn't their fault in my opinion that they've ended up in this situation. It's not as if they're contracted to produce a new game every 3 years. Many people just assumed that GT5 would be released shortly after the PS3 as that was the case last time.

As others have said, the TT is bound to be a massively pared down demo. So you can't base your opinions of GT5 on it. Despite the TT's shortcomings, you can tell the game has moved on when you play it. It just feels so different to drive (a lot like F355 challenge in my opinion).

I'm sure GT5 will be very impressive either way, and i'll probably buy GT6 too when I retire in 20 years or so :-)

 

[fcautoX]

No, not when that whole new physics model makes the game inaccessible to most of their original fan base.

It really doesn't though. GT has always been challenging, I personally don't even think that the new TT demo is more difficult than Prologue. The physics have always mirrored reality as much as possible. The only difference now is that PD has refined them and worked out most of the kinks. I would like to think that the real GT fans are open to and exited about new challenges.

 

[P1]

So, should I join this battle of trolls, or sit back and eat Norwegian Troll Popcorn .
In my humble (and about to be defaced) and honest opinion, PD has to open up and enlarge their "empire" to the US and Europe (US more importantly, we make the better games), and start to grow into a video game "republic" (notice the change in politics). Why do you think all the American games like NFS and Burnout get more attention and buyers? Because they're set here and catter with an INTERNATIONAL mindset for and INTERNATIONAL group. Even Square Enix has done the same.

NFS and Burnout dont get more attention that GT and if PD did try to act like a US game developer we would get a GT game every year but they would need 20 patches to become playable.

 

[chepe371]

Lawl.

 

[vigi147]

Why do you think all the American games like NFS and Burnout get more attention and buyers? Because they're set here and catter with an INTERNATIONAL mindset for and INTERNATIONAL group. Even Square Enix has done the same.

this is exactly what i was talking about before..

first of all, im not saying US car games are bad.. they're just not focused enough on cars as much as they're focused on selling..
take Dirt 2 for example .. it's a nice looking game .. but nothing worthwile has changed since Dirt 1.. physics are the same ( worse actually ), graphics are a little better, but Dirt 1 wasnt bad either..
but what did we get.. we got fireworks going off everytime you pass the finish line, we got drivers conversating in the middle of a race and you cant turn it off, we got prizes like liveries, horn sounds ( wtf ) and junk to put on our cars, and while i find the fact that elvis is dancing on my dashboard quite amusing, it adds absolutely nothing to the whole driving experience. Car choice is pathetic ( offroad racing with a nissan 370Z and a Hummer is just wrong ) and track list, while colorfull, gets old really fast..

If they would put more effort into the physics or cars than into making my EVO X sound like an ambulance ( wich AI ignores anyway ), the game would be much better. It's basicly the same with NFS and Burnout..

what im trying to say is, more copies sold doesnt mean a game is better. GT isn't for the masses, it cant be. It's for enthusiasts. And to answer your question. Why NFS and Burnout get more attention? Simple fact is, these games are easy to get in, easy to get out .. 2 races and you're done for the day. GT needs patience, it's like an MMORPG, you gain experience, you buy better gear ( better cars ), and you have tons of them to choose from, each with different statistics, different handling. If you want to make GT sell better you have to get rid of that.. cut down the car list to about 50, dumb down the physics so your average player can get any satisfaction, and add a lot of shinies to keep folk interested.

 

[Leadfoot53]

About the damage not being "important" for GT5... Here are a couple things to consider... In WRC, the drivers wreck their car about every 5 races. In NASCAR, an average racer gets involved in an accident about every few races. I feel like lack of damage would cause problems BECAUSE damage and crashes are a big part of racing. We have been spoiled of sorts with the previous GT games because the cars are practivally on a rail and have virtually no chance of a mistake and a crash. If GT5 has the improved AI that allows mistakes, damage will be a larger factor. I feel that it is unfair that someone would nail you at 100mph and be able to have no consequence!

 

[happycorey]

After spending £200 purchasing a 360, along with this "quality competition" no less than 3 days ago, i can safely say the GT series will remain the driving game to have. This is just my opinion ofcourse but i would be willing to bet my house, wife and the family pet on the matter

I can honestly say the same thing. No one will match GTs perfectionist attitude and professional demeanor, but I'm afraid that the long wait and time we have both changed, and GT may not be the same old friend he once was.

 

[BroncosXR8]

Oh you cant really tell me that Americans think with an International mindset besides "all shall be like me"?

On topic: I think PD is going along merrily

 

[jedaye]

I like everything about PD except I really think they should hire more staff so their products are finished more quickly.

 

[FozzyFan116]

So a whole new physics model isn't as important as skidmarks?

Right.. how on EARTH could pd ever implement BOTH the new physics model AS WELL as skidmarks

We can't expect them to do thaaaaaat


Seriously, I agree with the thread creator. The fact that they had to be ASKED to include vehicle damage in a 2010 ps3 racer is just absurd...

 

[skazz]

The funny thing in this thread is all these failed guesses about total sale volume of the different series.
Try reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_selling_video_games

Take, for example, the top 20 selling console games of all time. What do you see?
1. Wii Play (Wii – 24.43 million)
2. Wii Fit (Wii – 22.5 million)
3. Nintendogs (DS – 22.27 million, all five versions combined)
4. Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green (Game Boy – 20.08 million)
5. New Super Mario Bros. (DS – 19.94 million)
6. Mario Kart Wii (Wii – 18.36 million)
7. Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES – 18 million)
8. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! (DS – 17.41 million)
9. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2 - 17.33 million)
10. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (DS – 16.81 million)
11. Mario Kart DS (DS – 16.09 million)
12. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2 – 14.89 million shipped)
13. Pokémon Gold and Silver (Game Boy Color – 14.51 million)
14. Super Mario Land (Game Boy – 14 million)
15. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day! (DS – 13.71 million)
16. Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire (GBA – 13 million)
17. Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen (GBA – 11.82 million)
18. Super Mario 64 (N64 – 11 million)
19. Gran Turismo (PS1 – 10.85 million shipped)
20. Animal Crossing: Wild World (DS – 10.79 million)

The only stuff on the list which isn't Nintendo is GTA:SA, Gran Turismo 3 and Gran Turismo 1. And GT4 is only just off the top 20 list.

The best damage in a simulator is that of iRacing: It wins hands down over all other race sims. Do I miss the damage when racing GT5P, though? No I don't. Couldn't care less. I want to watch pretty cars looking unharmed. If I wanted to see wrecks I'd go buy Burnout.

 

[finnracer]

^I dont see any xbox games on that list!

 

[amar212]

Japanese philosophy is the only reason why GT series is so good.

And that is the only reason why GT maybe does not have many options and things that western games have, but there is certanly no other game in the world that has what Gran Turismo have.

And that is why GT is so unique.

And I remain strong hopes it will never change towards being "western".

 

[ItsHim]

Japanese philosophy is the only reason why GT series is so good.

rem acu tetigisti

 

[JosVerstappen]

why not have the best of both worlds...

 

[snoopybg]

Most of you people shout around how GT5 is all about the little touches and details which contribute to the "real driving experience". PD have eventually become known as pedants and paying great attention to the smallest thing and making them as perfect and realistic as possible. This is also how all of you explain delays and 5 years of development.
However when it comes to actually receiving those details you start explaining how it doesn't even matter if they're in or not. What do you mean " I don't care about damage, skidmarks, weather, particles, sound". What do you care about? A mere physics engine? You might then as well race boxes on an outline.
Games 15 years old have skidmarks, games 10 years old have damage.
Asslicking fanboism only makes PD go backwards in the development of modern games. And you can't do that in this business. If there's a game with skidmarks, then damn sure the "real driving" simulator should have too. Instead of spending months on screwing up the physics engine they might start working on things we hope to see for the first time in the "real driving simulator", things many others have had for years.
PD are just lucky that no other company has spent a lot of money on a game in the same spot of the racing genre. The guys who make LFS lack only the graphics engine and the quantity of the content-things that can be fixed with money.

 

[Jay]

PD are just lucky that no other company has spent a lot of money on a game in the same spot of the racing genre.

Forza doesn't count?

 

[Mr Whippy]

Most of you people shout around how GT5 is all about the little touches and details which contribute to the "real driving experience". PD have eventually become known as pedants and paying great attention to the smallest thing and making them as perfect and realistic as possible. This is also how all of you explain delays and 5 years of development.

That whole thing about accuracy is a bit too much I think. They really are not all that accurate. Maybe as far as arcadey games on consoles go, but vs older NFS titles even on the PC, they don't really surpass.


Just playing GT5P again, and the Z4's vent adjusters are too big and on the horizontal grill one up too far.
The engine revs to 7000rpm, not 6500rpm as per real life, and the engine gets 'noisy' and blares at about 5000rpm, while in real life this starts at 4000rpm when the DISA adjusts on the manifold...

Little things like that make me question the things I can't see, like the physics underneath the car itself... 99% of people won't notice, but owners of these cars will, and suddenly the idea of it being really accurate crumbles a fair old bit.

And I thought they went over these cars again and again gathering details, tsk

Dave

 

[Raitziger]

Some Z4s have diffrent engines on EU and US with us being the less powerfull (265 hp on eu and us has 255 )

 

[ItsHim]

I've witnessed home-computers and consoles evolve and develop for over 20 years - from boring office machines doing some calculations (spreadsheet magic anyone?) and fancy typewriters to "multimedia machines" that still aren't quite so fabulous as was once advertised in 1990.

I can remember vividly the 386 CPU PCs on display doing Flightsimulator and Grand Prix, and infact my first games for the Commodore C64 were Test Drive and Flightsimulator 2.

It was quite exciting seeing reality portrayed and manipulated in a way, that was new and different. It was fundamentally different from watching a movie.

I feel the whole industry was thinking along these lines a very long time: computers (and consoles) recreating reality was one of the main selling points.

Now, maybe we've gone one step further: it's suddenly all about "augmented reality" and games like "invizimals" seem very exciting to me. Along with some Tamagotchi stuff running on iPhones, where you see a small animal on your desktop and it can interact with your fingers or a pencil.

I'm not quite sure where we are heading at the moment, but the Wii has certainly given important signals to the industry.

PD has a new game-engine ready, though I'm not quite sure how they will turn this into money. Will they licence it? Will they go multi-platform? Can it be ported to a new generation of Playstations?

To me, GT4 (and hopefully GT5) was always about the aesthetic of the cars. It's unique. I can't really put in in words, but everyone knows the difference between a snapshot and a picture taken by a talented photographer.

I'm afraid not many seem to share my view, but racing always felt kind of an excuse to do actually something with the cars than stare at them.

So skidmarks, damage, rolling, tyre physics, etc. don't matter at all to me because they don't add to the beauty of the cars. Nor does a livery editor or the ability of bolting bits and pieces to the cars.

I can only hope PD will be fine as long as Sony thinks it's a good way of showcasing the power and might of the Playstation console. But that might change at any point in the future, and then PD might be in serious trouble finding another publisher (if Sony was willing to let PD carry on that is).

 

[Tenacious D]

This is also how all of you explain delays and 5 years of development.

It's not how I explain delays and 5 years of development.

• Tourist Trophy
• GT HD
• GT5 Prologue
• GT PSP
• GT Academy

In fact, I'm not the only one reminding people of this. I would put most of the delay blame on TT and GTPSP, because the other GT5 "demos" by all accounts used several months of development time combined. The serious drag on Polyphony's resources, and the one that hurt the most, is GT "Mobile." Taking a game like GT4, adding even more to it, and then squeezing it down to a gigabyte and getting it to run well on a handheld was a lot of hard work, and if anyone thinks it took less than a year, as I posted before, I'd like a detailed explanation.

Another source of delay is the team coming to terms with the PS3 architecture. This very cool but very arcane machine does require some schooling on how to get the most out of it, and while the modelers were busy making high res clones of hundreds of cars and dozens of tracks, the coding team was hard at learning how to stream and coordinate chunks of data through the engine to the different processors efficiently. Remember, multi-core coding isn't for the faint of heart, and even the much lauded Valve hasn't done much of anything on PC with multi-core coding. So on the one hand, Kazunori-dono has a machine capable of delivering everything he wants in his virtual racing world, but on the other, it requires some schooling and thinking.

And Need For Speed? The Toca series blows it out of the water in any sort of accuracy. The only cool thing about NFS is it offers street cars. But I wouldn't put Toca above Gran Turismo overall, especially after playing Prologue and the Time Trial demo. And these days, Codemasters is just a British Electronic Arts anyway.

And while I have Forza 3, the only thing I want to do right now is toot around one course with one or two versions of a 370Z, and shave tenths of a second off my lap times. And watch replays over and over, and over...

 

[Tired Tyres]

To all of you complaining about what's missing from GT. This game is Kazunori's vision.

If you don't think he's doing it right, form your own development team and make your own vision.

 

[snoopybg]

Hahaha, that's the most idiotic point of view. If it was for free I would have no right ti complain, but this is all done for money and I am entitled the right to expect what I want if they want my money and support.
That's like George Lucas, who said people were lucky they liked Star Wars, because he had made it the way he liked it, not to please the audience.

Forza doesn't count?

Yes! It doesn't. Forza is not a game aimed at accuracy. It's a fast money maker. It comes and goes quickly. Forza 3 came out 2.5 years after Forza 2, and without much progress. And all that GT killer stuff was just PR, and guess what, It worked!

@Tenacious D What does it say about PD if they spend they time working on little "demos", rather than making the damn game.
And I'm not talking about the time it took to make what they had when they released with GT5p. GT5p is the greatest I've seen in the racing genre, but it was 2years ago. Since than what have we seen done? Virtually nothing but more content. For 2 years Naughty Dog released a much much better and superior in any way game after they had the technology in uncharted 1. And I can bet the final game will be a very close resemblance of GT5p in terms of graphics and sound. I hope we see more features than the damage and head tracking.

 

[Tenacious D]

GT5p is the greatest I've seen in the racing genre, but it was 2years ago. Since than what have we seen done? Virtually nothing but more content.

Incorrect. GT PSP. You should read what I say more closely, in fact, read it again. I know I rattle on and like to hear myself type, but I do have a lot of substance to say.

The serious drag on Polyphony's resources, and the one that hurt the most, is GT "Mobile." Taking a game like GT4, adding even more to it, and then squeezing it down to a gigabyte and getting it to run well on a handheld was a lot of hard work, and if anyone thinks it took less than a year, as I posted before, I'd like a detailed explanation.

 

[randomname1]

You sound like you know more about making games than KY, so why don't you go and make a better one.

You sound like you love KY. Why dont you go marry him. The guy had a good point and you put your developer love shield up.

 

[snoopybg]

I do not care about the GTPSP. I do not own one and I will not. Therefore their work on that game for me is irrelevant. They may decide to make a version for WII, XBOX360, DS and PC, but that won't keep me warm when the game gets delayed for 2015.

And one more thing what kind of idiot has great software but releases a "toned down" demo? Better render and sound does not require more size in megabytes, because I can already hear the "it's only 200mb" explanation.