The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[eran0004]

Sorry if I'm lagging behind in the discussion...

@ImaRobot Adaptive Tessellation can be used to reduce the polycount of a mesh, but also to increase it. It won't add details all on it's own, instead it smoothens the details that are already in the model, such as making wheel arches smoother for instance.

As for the photoscape images, there are several possible reasons that could contribute to that quality boost:

1. Rendering the mesh at its best tessellation form (this really doesn't make that much of a difference from gameplay unless you zoom in on the details). An interesting detail here is that adaptive tessellation in GT6 was used in the same way in photomode as during gameplay, so it didn't always default to using the highest level of detail, you had to get close or zoom in with the camera for that to happen.

2. Antialiasing. This makes a huge difference around all the edges and panel gaps of the car.

3. HDRI lighting. Using the environmental backdrops to generate the light and shadows in the scene. That is what creates the ultra-realistic reflections.

4. Frame rate. As this is a game mode that doesn't rely on frame rate for success, they can crank up all the settings of the rendering engine. Of course there is still a limit though, it can't take forever to render a photomode scene, so stuff like having ultra-realistic glass refraction or reflections of reflections might have to wait for the future. Maybe in GT10, who knows?

 

[ImaRobot]

@ImaRobot Adaptive Tessellation can be used to reduce the polycount of a mesh, but also to increase it. It won't add details all on it's own, instead it smoothens the details that are already in the model, such as making wheel arches smoother for instance.

Thanks for your descriptive posts 👍 It can also increase the poly count as well? Or is that more a long the lines of just bringing it back up to a set max point? I'm sure there would have to be a set point that it can not go over, so instead it would seem probable that it's not necessarily raising poly count, but more so bringing it back to it's original point, no?

 

[AncientDiety]

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/gran_turismo_sport/preview-3996.html

Video Gamer was not impressed either, this game is going to get shredded in reviews.

 

[SimTourist]

No damage, no dynamic weather, no new sounds, noAA, bad framerate, etc. What are you doing Kaz? Just what is this?

 

[JC_Dude]

I actually love the boxart itself but it doesn't work at all with Playstation blue.

 

[eran0004]

Thanks for your descriptive posts 👍 It can also increase the poly count as well? Or is that more a long the lines of just bringing it back up to a set max point? I'm sure there would have to be a set point that it can not go over, so instead it would seem probable that it's not necessarily raising poly count, but more so bringing it back to it's original point, no?

Well, it's either a set limit, or it depends entirely on how close you get with the camera. Typically, these things works by subdivisions, so it divides the surfaces of the mesh a number of times and calculates the shape of the new geometry based on a formula (typically making it rounder), and generally speaking there is no limit for how many times you can divide a surface, so you could write a formula that dictates that the subdivision is equal to 1/distance_from_camera, and it would keep subdividing the closer you get. A good example of this is the wheels of the Ford GT40 in GT6, where at the lowest tessellation they are basically hexagonal. As you get closer the tessellation improves and it just keeps getting better and better. Even with the camera at the limit of the drawing distance (a couple of centimeters away, I guess?) the wheel looks perfectly round.

 

[mister dog]

It's most likely photomode. The level of detail looks pretty similar to the stream, but the light and anti-aliasing seems to be better.

You're right, thanks for posting that gif as the trees do look similar, so they actually did do a nice job in upgrading those even if they were enhanced afterwards.

They are Bull shots, the fact that people still fall for it is ridiculous. The game doesn't look as good as their PR screens.

The PR shots are photomode. All of them. There's always been a significant difference between in-game and photomode. That's kind of why they invented it, so that they could make bullshots and legitimately label them as in-game without falling foul of honesty in a1dvertising laws.

Seems like it, and yes legally they are covered as it's part of the game.

Six pages already? *facepalm*

 

[ImaRobot]

Well, it's either a set limit, or it depends entirely on how close you get with the camera. Typically, these things works by subdivisions, so it divides the surfaces of the mesh a number of times and calculates the shape of the new geometry based on a formula (typically making it rounder), and generally speaking there is no limit for how many times you can divide a surface, so you could write a formula that dictates that the subdivision is equal to 1/distance_from_camera, and it would keep subdividing the closer you get. A good example of this is the wheels of the Ford GT40 in GT6, where at the lowest tessellation they are basically hexagonal. As you get closer the tessellation improves and it just keeps getting better and better. Even with the camera at the limit of the drawing distance (a couple of centimeters away, I guess?) the wheel looks perfectly round.

What I was meaning, is that while it does increase and decrease depending on certain conditions, there still has to be a certain max threshold somewhere that it just simply can't increase over. That said, it seems less of increasing over a point, but more rather increasing back to it's original starting point, before any conditions are taken into consideration.

Unless what you're telling me is that it has an infinite range in either side of the spectrum.

Either way, I'm definitely learning something today

 

[RodolphoPNeto]

I agree with most of what is being said here.

My biggest gripe with Gran Turismo in general is how unbelievably late PD is. Gran Turismo may have the best driving physics and a large community, but others competitors are making the Gran Turismo series look like a joke. It amazes me how Sony doesn't step in and control what goes on at PD.

-Photomode looks great, but who really cares. Think of how many more tracks or cars PD could have modeled instead.
-livery editor is 6 years too late. Since its new to the series it won't be as advanced as Forzas livery editor.
- Only 130 cars. It was acceptable to have ps2 cars in a game released in 2013, yet we aren't received the premium cars from gt5 and gt6. Didn't Kaz claim the premium cars were basically detailed enough to be for a ps4 game?
-Sound still sucks. ****ing fix it. There are only 130 cars.
-Immesrsion. Gt4 even had wind noise at high speeds. Include wind, rattling, shaking, etc.

I complain because fans have been asking for many fixes for years and we still haven't got them. PD's budget is insanely high, they need to stop spending it on stupid shut like photo mode and dynamic weather.

Epic whining done right. Agreed, 100%

But i have to say, my first perception is that their priorities are the serious, stressful, competitive e-sports thing and photomode. I mean that's what they're using to promote it so...

Is it really what the majority of the customers want today? Serious question!

Here goes my whining through yet another, very simple wish list from a simple fan and customer:
- 400 Cars (+100 DLC for a year) with interiors
- proper sound, damage, weather, 1080p 60fps
- all old tracks from all GT games + a couple of new ones
- tough AI and long, season-like carrer mode (yes, it can be fun to play solo, if done right)
- livery editor
- light and simple MP mode, so we can have FUN

I mean that's what i would consider priorities, but who the hell am i...

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Apparently some members where that bothered that criticisms were appearing in the general discussion thread, that they decided this was necessary. Yep, really.

That's... selfish.

 

[eran0004]

What I was meaning, is that while it does increase and decrease depending on certain conditions, there still has to be a certain max threshold somewhere that it just simply can't increase over. That said, it seems less of increasing over a point, but more rather increasing back to it's original starting point, before any conditions are taken into consideration.

Unless what you're telling me is that it has an infinite range in either side of the spectrum.

Either way, I'm definitely learning something today

Yeah, at some point you can't get closer to the mesh, and that would be the limit. But I don't know if you can define a starting point. There is the base mesh (0 subdivisions) but the model would be made with subdivisions in mind, so in a sense I don't think that we could even call the 0 subdivision mesh for being the original form. I guess in a way it's similar to making a vector image in adobe illustrator, as it is a set of mathematical curves there is no original resolution, instead it's being translated to pixels once you rasterize the image.

 

[djs]

PD is acting like an indie studio. Right now I am genuinely disappointed.

 

[rronak95]

Epic whining done right. Agreed, 100%

But i have to say, my first perception is that their priorities are the serious, stressful, competitive e-sports thing and photomode. I mean that's what they're using to promote it so...

Is it really what the majority of the customers want today? Serious question!

Here goes my whining through yet another, very simple wish list from a simple fan and customer:
- 400 Cars (+100 DLC for a year) with interiors
- proper sound, damage, weather, 1080p 60fps
- all old tracks from all GT games + a couple of new ones
- tough AI and long, season-like carrer mode (yes, it can be fun to play solo, if done right)
- livery editor
- light and simple MP mode, so we can have FUN

I mean that's what i would consider priorities, but who the hell am i...

Completely agree.
The main focus imo for PD should be sound. Not only engine noise, but they should test out and try to implement sounds heard while racing in real life such as what I listed in my original comment.

 

[AncientDiety]

That's... selfish.

Childish even, if you can't handle proper criticism you must have the maturity of an infant. I love GT but it needs to improve, Kaz and Sony have woefully mis-managed the franchise. Criticism = change for the better

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Childish even, if you can't handle proper criticism you must have the maturity of an infant. I love GT but it needs to improve, Kaz and Sony have woefully mis-managed the franchise. Criticism = change for the better

It's debatable that this thread can really be classified as a place for "proper criticism." That, to me, means acknowledging a product's good points (not something many people in this thread do) while also pointing out the bad stuff and how it can be improved.

But yes, people getting upset and actively attempting to whitewash a thread (at least, one that's not like EW&C or EP&C) just because they don't agree with the other side is extremely immature.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's debatable that this thread can really be classified as a place for "proper criticism." That, to me, means acknowledging a product's good points (not something many people in this thread do) while also pointing out the bad stuff and how it can be improved.

But yes, people getting upset and actively attempting to whitewash a thread just because they don't agree with the other side is extremely immature.

This is the internet. People post in short stabs at the keyboard for the most part so you aren't going to get balance in most single responses. Expecting it to be any different is just setting yourself up for disappointment which it seems has been accomplished.

Plus, Whining and Crying Thread.

 

[ImaRobot]

It's debatable that this thread can really be classified as a place for "proper criticism." That, to me, means acknowledging a product's good points (not something many people in this thread do) while also pointing out the bad stuff and how it can be improved.

This thread is specifically for the opposite of it's good points. It's not a bad thing to concentrate on something specific.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Plus, Whining and Crying Thread.

Edited.

 

[1241Penguin]

Try some laxatives?

 

[Spirit]

Criticism = change for the better

This is true, and criticism is necessary for the advancement of just about anything these days. Even myself as a sim-racing driver (up to argument because controller) wouldn't be where I'm at right now without it.

What I personally have a problem with is people who cannot draw the line between criticism and hate. Criticism as you said, is for the better when done properly. One of the key defining aspects of criticism is that the critic states what they don't like and why. The why part is important to me, not sure about most other people. After all, if nothing bad is ever said, nothing good will ever get done. And if someone doesn't want criticism of themselves, or something that they enjoy, they would have to simply cease to exist. It's a part of life.

Hate on the other hand, well, is just that. I've seen people post here literally saying the GT franchise is awful, and frankly needs to die, with no explanation why. I mean really? That doesn't sound like criticism to me. That just sounds like someone has a personal wall in their head preventing them from seeing anything and I mean anything good about what they are "criticizing". One individual in particular (no, I will not share their identity) stated on a different site, not GTPlanet, that GT needs to "just **** off" solely because they took on Snapchat as a media outlet. People like that is where my problem lies.

I think that too many people have lost the distinction between these two and having lost that, simply can't tell them apart, and instead choose to hate them both as equals. That's one of the major problems with today's world in my opinion, it's not just GTPlanet or on the internet in general.

Apologies for the tangent, now to contribute something:

The major gripes I have with the game at this stage are as follows

• No sign of NASCAR or Super GT racing cars
• No sign that private clubs or online rooms are still a thing
• No sign of dynamic racing conditions (time, weather, grip, etc.)
• Still no clear picture of the nitty gritty that I was hoping to see showcased in London

However, I do understand that everything is still in beta and there is a very good chance they are still withholding content. I'm just going to hold my breath for E3 and wait for more news. Other than that, the game is looking pretty good to me.

 

[Aloha62_2]

No damage, no dynamic weather, no new sounds, noAA, bad framerate, etc. What are you doing Kaz? Just what is this?

3 years of hardwork... apparently. If this was a launch game I could understand it but now? No.

 

[VBR]

No mention of laser scanned tracks.

 

[ripsnorti]

I was expecting something much better than what I saw,to me it was so underwhelming,what are PolyD doing..?

Did they even look at other racing games to gauge what they needed to do...
To me the sound was again a hoover..I think PolyD did the wrong thing they should have fixed the sound before the unveiling all it made me do was look in the direction of Project Cars,great weather,great sounds,damage,night racing..there are to many good racing games to rest on their laurels..yes I know this was a demo but if thats the case they should have made it a good as it can be..they missed the mark,and another thing that doesn't add up is the 50% thing,they have been working on this for 2 years and it's at 50% and slated for a november release that means a 60% finished game a release..but to be honest I'm done with them the last great GT was 4

 

[ripsnorti]

No damage, no dynamic weather, no new sounds, noAA, bad framerate, etc. What are you doing Kaz? Just what is this?

what this is..is the end of the line for GT in my eyes

 

[05XR8]

No signs of challenging AI.

That's all I'm concerned with. Oh, those tyre screeches as well. Lord, have mercy on my ears. I can't go through with the game if it's going to be screeching every millimeter of steering adjustment. At least tone it down to a muffled howl.

I'm not happy about that MX-5 with a gaudy wing when, the real MX-5 Cup was revealed long enough ago to model.

I'm happy with the McLaren, Aston and 458 GT3 cars. Why fake the C.7R?

I just don't get how PD will not look over the fence at AC, PCars and Forza. All they have to do, is try those games and say, "So, THAT'S how AI works!". That is the only thing I want from today's racing games, active/reactive AI.

 

[Rob-F1-Fan]

Those of us who hav'nt got racing wheels and arent even that good with a controller, how is the main focus of e-sports going to help us?
They should have just waited and released a full blown GT7 with lots of the road cars of today.

 

[Imari]

No mention of laser scanned tracks.

I think no mention of the presumably numerous physics improvements that they've made is even weirder. Other simulation games are always tripping over themselves to talk about their new tyre tech and heating models and dynamic tracks and so on. Even Polyphony made a big fuss before GT6, although it proved to be somewhat ill founded.

But this time we've heard nothing, as far as I know. And I don't think I've heard any of the drivers remark on it being a massive step forward either.

I think the physics in GT5 and 6 was acceptable for a casual, sprawling car porn game. I don't think they're good enough for an e-sport that's attempting to present itself seriously.

 

[NLxAROSA]

They should have just waited and released a full blown GT7 with lots of the road cars of today.

No worries, you'll get GT7 on PS5.

 

[Rob-F1-Fan]

No worries, you'll get GT7 on PS5.

There's usually two GT games on each generation.. but the development times seem to be getting longer so you would think the PS5 would be out first !

 

[NLxAROSA]

There's usually two GT games on each generation.. but the development times seem to be getting longer so you would think the PS5 would be out first !

I was of course only jesting, but the way I see it, GT7 is off at least another two-three years. They could pull off another GT6 and release GT7 at the end of the PS4 lifecycle, but that would lead to the same situation on the PS5 (first game three years after launch of the console).