The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[PocketZeven]

"He did something bad, but not as bad as Trump, so he's okay".

Nope. Not what I am saying at all. Stop and frisk is his biggest fail. But how he deals with it and responds to it is very important.

What is the point you are trying to make?

edit:

Hm. Seems like you're not so different from the hardcore Trump-can-do-no-wrong supporters either. You're willing to overlook significant faults in a candidate in order to get the party you want into office. Presumably because the party matters the most, the candidate is just a vehicle.

Tell me, if the Democrats were guaranteed to win the presidency and all we were talking about was who sits in the Oval Office, how much of a difference do you think it makes between your perfect candidate and someone like Bloomberg? Does the person actually matter, or would any Democrat be much the same? Because you're saying that he's a compromise that you're willing to accept because he's more electable (which is a valid choice), and I'm curious about how much you're willing to give up to win.

I am not overlooking it. As stated I observe how he reacts to his mistakes. Has trump ever in his whole life admitted to any fault?

Yet Bernie is leading against Trump in Polling averages: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

I hope he wins. I am just sceptical after the whole Hillary debacle.

 

[McLaren]

Nope. Not what I am saying at all. Stop and frisk is his biggest fail. But how he deals with it and responds to it is very important.

What is the point you are trying to make?

If you hadn’t bothered to chop my post up, you’d see it.

You’re perfectly fine with a man who had a racist and an anti-Muslim policy bc he apologized for one of them even though up until Jan 2019, he was still defending that policy.

And when questioned why he gets a pass after you had a legitimate criticism of Trump’s own racist and anti-Muslim rhetoric, it’s because “Trump has done more bad things that he hasn’t apologized for.” That completely ignores that a racist/anti-Muslim policy is wrong regardless and literally waiting until running for President to “apologize” shouldn’t negate that. Nor do I believe you’d still (rightly) refuse to accept a Trump apology by this point if he tried.

Edit* Please go watch @mustafur ’s video and report back how his apology makes up for those comments.

 

[Dotini]

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Remarkable how well Bloomberg has been doing by...not showing up.

Pete & Mike should just team up already. Hard not to see the combined moderate bloc having larger support ultimately.

 

[Keef]

Remarkable how well Bloomberg has been doing by...not showing up.

Pete & Mike should just team up already. Hard not to see the combined moderate bloc having larger support ultimately.

Maybe it's my ad blocker and penchant for not answering calls from unknown numbers, but is Bloomberg really doing that well?

The age demographics of the two primaries thusfar show that Biden is favored heavily by old people. And I'm pulling the assumption out of my ass that "old people" don't use ad blockers on the internet, nor are they as picky about what phone calls they answer. They conduct these polls by calling random numbers and asking questions, but I feel like the people who are actually answering are skewed heavily toward those older demographics. Young people just don't answer calls from people they don't know, which of course includes those pollsters.

That would explain to me how Biden went from the "front runner" to like 10% of the results thusfar. The polls aren't accurate. Likewise, Bernie has outperformed pretty much all of the polls. I think the same thing Biden is suffering from is also happening to Bloomberg, because there's not a single damn millennial-or-younger in this country who thinks, "the problem with Trump is that he's not rich enough". The concept of Bloomberg's candidacy is just hilarious and ridiculous to me and all my friends I've talked to about it, all of whom have different political affiliations.

EDIT: I think this applies to Pete's supporters as well, most of whom are younger than Biden's. As for Amy's poll results...not sure. She's clearly number 3 after two states but Nevada and SC's diversity will show us a lot.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That would explain to me how Biden went from the "front runner" to like 10% of the results thusfar. The polls aren't accurate. Likewise, Bernie has outperformed pretty much all of the polls. I think the same thing Biden is suffering from is also happening to Bloomberg, because there's not a single damn millennial-or-younger in this country who thinks, "the problem with Trump is that he's not rich enough". The concept of Bloomberg's candidacy is just hilarious and ridiculous to me and all my friends I've talked to about it, all of whom have different political affiliations.

Does anyone think that Trump is horrible because he is rich? I don't think my question is any more hyperbolic than your statement.

 

[Keef]

Does anyone think that Trump is horrible because he is rich? I don't think my question is any more hyperbolic than your statement.

Actually a number of Bernie and Warren's hardcore/far left fans to believe that. It's not the norm. But many more people are aware that the corporate class of Americans have the ability to influence government and do it regularly.

My point was that In a world where it's clear that a huge number of Americans are pissed that income disparities are rising at an alarming rate, Bloomberg having the audacity to stick his neck out seems quite out of touch. Bernie's assertation that Bloomberg is simply trying to buy the election are spot on. Most of Bernie's policies would make Bloomberg's financial endeavors a lot more difficult, as they should be.

 

[mustafur]

It doesn't help when they change rules regarding the debates as a direct consequence of Bloomberg's wealth.

Both parties are showing signs of an Oligarchy and whilst I wouldn't say America is a full blown one at this point it's not far off.

 

[Scaff]

Does anyone think that Trump is horrible because he is rich? I don't think my question is any more hyperbolic than your statement.

No, but it is factor, he's been brought up to believe that his being rich allows him to play by a different rule set to others.

It appears to be a mindset that he brought to the White House, and then further enboldened with the mindset that he now has the position amd power to do anything he wishes.

 

[mustafur]

Which ones are good specifically? Because I'm happy to discuss exactly why any of those is bad and/or unconstitutional.

Sorry at being late at a response, but I will respond. As an Australian how I hold the US constitution to how you may or any other American does is likely going to be different but despite how rigid it is made out to be I still see it as a malleable object that can be still changed, So when I see Bernie's proposals that actually do interfere with the constitution I'm doing so from the perspective that that can be changed.

I've been Libertarian for atleast a decade(before you ask it was the ''you'' type not the ''left type''), but I have slowly realised that the proposals I did hold dear are not only never going to happen in modern society, alot is untested in a current environment and can have very dangerous consequences if they where to happen and not work out, so I have shifted to a position that I think will effect reality, in which society could accept, and weirdly(Atleast to me) it turned me left.

I do not want to judge you or anyone who has their views and life experiences, but life has pushed me this way, I'm not naive to the fact that large parts of society feel next to nothing to their fellow human, But also know that modern life doesn't exactly have to be in a position of survival of the fittest as I don't find that healthy.

Libertarian ideals to me at this point feels like a world like today but with a giant cliff with nothing stopping you from going over right next to you, things can work out as long you stay away from that cliff. We could put a Fence or wall next to it to stop the risk but that would be interfering with the system.

 

[PocketZeven]

If you hadn’t bothered to chop my post up, you’d see it.

You’re perfectly fine with a man who had a racist and an anti-Muslim policy bc he apologized for one of them even though up until Jan 2019, he was still defending that policy.

And when questioned why he gets a pass after you had a legitimate criticism of Trump’s own racist and anti-Muslim rhetoric, it’s because “Trump has done more bad things that he hasn’t apologized for.” That completely ignores that a racist/anti-Muslim policy is wrong regardless and literally waiting until running for President to “apologize” shouldn’t negate that. Nor do I believe you’d still (rightly) refuse to accept a Trump apology by this point if he tried.

Edit* Please go watch @mustafur ’s video and report back how his apology makes up for those comments.

I havent said once that i was fine with that at all. Every candidate has flaws. But is the point you are trying to make, that Bloomberg is somehow just as bad as Trump?

 

[McLaren]

I havent said once that i was fine with that at all. Every candidate has flaws. But is the point you are trying to make, that Bloomberg is somehow just as bad as Trump?

The point is why after repeatedly calling out Trump’s policies, you give Bloomberg a pass for having similar policies? That apology is hollow and late to the table.

 

[PocketZeven]

The point is why after repeatedly calling out Trump’s policies, you give Bloomberg a pass for having similar policies? That apology is hollow and late to the table.

How am I giving him a pass? Why are you repeating that inaccurate narrative?
Did I say he wasnt a racist or an elitist billionaire? Or did I try justifying his mistakes?

Me supporting Bloomberg is more similar to the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[Exorcet]

Libertarian ideals to me at this point feels like a world like today but with a giant cliff with nothing stopping you from going over right next to you, things can work out as long you stay away from that cliff. We could put a Fence or wall next to it to stop the risk but that would be interfering with the system.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly, but a Libertarian system isn't a survival of fittest, no safety net system. It just shifts the responsibility for the safety net onto the people that want to have it. They can't just demand that other people have to support it. That goes for other things like UBI, universal healthcare, minimum wage, pretty much anything you could think of.

You're right to point out that if any of these were to be attempted they should be done carefully. I don't know what a libertarian like society would look like on the finest level of detail. Much of it is untested like you said, so we should get more data and refine the idea.

 

[PocketZeven]

I've been Libertarian for atleast a decade(before you ask it was the ''you'' type not the ''left type''), but I have slowly realised that the proposals I did hold dear are not only never going to happen in modern society, alot is untested in a current environment and can have very dangerous consequences if they where to happen and not work out, so I have shifted to a position that I think will effect reality, in which society could accept, and weirdly(Atleast to me) it turned me left.

Libertarianism and Communism are similar in the sense that the power lies with the people. However in my opinion can only succeed if people are good, social and compassionate. However I am pestimistic about human nature, that all "systems" will eventually corrupt, without some kind of checks and balances, oversight (which causes bureacracy). It is in a sense a neccesary evil.

 

[McLaren]

How am I giving him a pass? Why are you repeating that inaccurate narrative?
Did I say he wasnt a racist or an elitist billionaire? Or did I try justifying his mistakes?

Me supporting Bloomberg is more similar to the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

That makes absolutely no sense. Your enemy and his enemy have had similar view points in life. How on earth does that make 1 your friend?

This honestly isn’t a trick question. 2 politicians present similar questionable, demeaning policies. Why call out one justifiably, but barely acknowledge the other’s misdeed?

 

[PocketZeven]

That makes absolutely no sense. Your enemy and his enemy have had similar view points in life. How on earth does that make 1 your friend?

To be clear. I dont criticise all (i do most) of Trump's policies. I mostly criticise his selfish, narcissist and corrupt behavior.

But to to humor you. Which "similar view point" are you referring to?

 

[McLaren]

To be clear. I dont criticise all (i do most) of Trump's policies. I mostly criticise his selfish, narcissist and corrupt behavior.

But to to humor you. Which "similar view point" are you referring to?

Is this a language barrier issue or you do just skim posts? What similar view? The only I’ve been asking you about multiple times. “Stop and Frisk” was targeted towards young minorities, and the anti-Muslim procedure of having police officers spy on innocent Muslims.

 

[Danoff]

The point is why after repeatedly calling out Trump’s policies, you give Bloomberg a pass for having similar policies? That apology is hollow and late to the table.

If Bloomberg were a republican (just switch the team, not any of the policies), his talk about frisking black people because that's where the crime is would be enough to get him called racist. Good thing he's a Democrat!

Trump gets away with economic protectionism and meddling, and even gets a free pass for the bump stock thing partly because he's a republican. Democrats get to say "racist" things.

 

[PocketZeven]

Is this a language barrier issue or you do just skim posts? What similar view? The only I’ve been asking you about multiple times. “Stop and Frisk” was targeted towards young minorities, and the anti-Muslim procedure of having police officers spy on innocent Muslims.

So when did Trump implement stop and frisk? And how does having 1 policy make him have "similar view points"? Should I list Trumps racist policies and views?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

And you are insinuating that the person who implemented stop and frisk is has "similar view points" and therefor are the same? Or better yet if I support Bloomberg, I am somehow hypocritical? I dont see the logic there. You are focusing on one perceived similarity and conveniently ignoring all the other factors and differences.

 

[McLaren]

So when did Trump implement stop and frisk? And how does having 1 policy make him have "similar view points"? Should I list Trumps racist policies?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

And you are insinuating that the person who implemented stop and frisk is has "similar view points" and therefor are the same? I dont see the logic.

You have absolutely no intention of explaining why you support Bloomberg who had a racist policy and an anti-Muslim policy, 2 things Trump has also argued for on a larger scale.

Your only argument has fallen back to “Well, Trump did more racist things”.

BTW, Trump supported Bloomberg’s Stop-And-Frisk.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...U5MZlUwSExZYnZ4ZXFaTlVrTGtRQjdCMEtEd3R1amlfTg..

 

[PocketZeven]

You have absolutely no intention of explaining why you support Bloomberg who had a racist policy and an Anti-Muslim policy, 2 things Trump has also argued for.

Your only argument has fallen back to “Well, Trump did more racist things”.

I did in the very first post, you seemingly chose to ignore. He has centrist policies, is a selfmade man and has 9 years of government experience. He is not campaigning on those racist views is he?

edit:
You are misquoting there dude. Where did I say "well, Trump did more racist things"? I have not just criticised Trump for his racist views. Actually on this forum I have brought this up seldomly and mainly focused on his lawlessness and his pathological lying.

Ýou are using an argument like:

Berny was caught in a lie. How hypocrytical of you to support him. Berny is a liar and therefor similar to Trump.

 

[McLaren]

I did in the very first post, you seemingly chose to ignore. He has centrist policies, is a selfmade man and has 9 years of government experience. He is not campaigning on those racist views is he?

I didn’t ignore it, I called out your double standard.

Last time, you call out Trump for racist/anti-Muslim policies and rightly so. Why do you support another man who has done the same? Why are his sins overlooked compared to Trump’s? Those “9 years” included those racist policies.

 

[PocketZeven]

I didn’t ignore it, I called out your double standard.

Last time, you call out Trump for racist/anti-Muslim policies and rightly so. Why do you support another man who has done the same? Why are his sins overlooked compared to Trump’s? Those “9 years” included those racist policies.

Which double standard? I did not justify his racism. (which would suggest double standards)
In that logic I cant support any candidate. I am sure you can find a simlarity with Trump with every candidate out there!

 

[McLaren]

Which double standard? I did not justify his racism
(which would suggest double standards)

But you overlook them to support him?

In that logic I cant support any candidate. I am sure you can find a simlarity with Trump with every candidate out there!

Unless I’ve missed you calling out other candidates for other issues, who else is pushing racial-targeting and anti-Muslim propositions?

My candidates were Yang and Gabbard. Feel free to point out any black marks they have similar to Trump. Gabbard had a past history of anti-gay, but attributed that to her religious father iirc, and it’s been a few years since she’s changed that view in life.

 

[PocketZeven]

But you overlook them to support him?

Unless I’ve missed you calling out other candidates for other issues, who else is pushing racial-targeting and anti-Muslim propositions?

My candidates were Yang and Gabbard. Feel free to point out any black marks they have similar to Trump. Gabbard had a past history of anti-gay, but attributed that to her religious father iirc, and it’s been a few years since she’s changed that view in life.

Not overlook. I also take in account other factors and dont look at candidates 2 dimensional. Which you imply I should do.

Gabbard anti gay background is worrysome, but unlike you I do understand which qualities push these bad ones to the background.

If Bloomberg were a republican (just switch the team, not any of the policies), his talk about frisking black people because that's where the crime is would be enough to get him called racist. Good thing he's a Democrat!

Trump gets away with economic protectionism and meddling, and even gets a free pass for the bump stock thing partly because he's a republican. Democrats get to say "racist" things.

I would have supported him even more if he was to challenge Trump in his own party.
I do make the difference of being racist and having regret and people who deny, deny, deny.

 

[Dotini]

The remainder of the primaries are cancelled. The ticket has been decided, and it's Bloomberg/Clinton.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The remainder of the primaries are cancelled. The ticket has been decided, and it's Bloomberg/Clinton.

And if they were to get elected Bloomburg would mysteriously commit suicide a few months after the election making Clinton the president! lol!

 

[Biggles]

But you overlook them to support him?

Unless I’ve missed you calling out other candidates for other issues, who else is pushing racial-targeting and anti-Muslim propositions?

My candidates were Yang and Gabbard. Feel free to point out any black marks they have similar to Trump. Gabbard had a past history of anti-gay, but attributed that to her religious father iirc, and it’s been a few years since she’s changed that view in life.

Well, Yang has a pretty clean slate when it comes to involvement in politics, so he's not hauling much baggage around. Not sure about Gabbard. As mayor of the United States biggest city - with a budget larger than any of the individual States aside from California, Texas, Florida & New York State itself - Bloomberg was faced with complex administrative tasks & political compromises that Yang & Gabbard clearly have not had to face.

Who is pushing racial-targeting and anti-Muslim propositions? That would be Trump ... & by extension the entire Republican party. That's sort of the point - Bloomberg might represent a reasonable choice for moderate Democratic & Independent voters. No idea how that will play out in the coming months. Let's hope no photos emerge of Bloomberg in blackface.

 

[PocketZeven]

Well, Yang has a pretty clean slate when it comes to involvement in politics, so he's not hauling much baggage around. Not sure about Gabbard. As mayor of the United States biggest city - with a budget larger than any of the individual States aside from California, Texas, Florida & New York State itself - Bloomberg was faced with complex administrative tasks & political compromises that Yang & Gabbard clearly have not had to face.

Who is pushing racial-targeting and anti-Muslim propositions? That would be Trump ... & by extension the entire Republican party. That's sort of the point - Bloomberg might represent a reasonable choice for moderate Democratic & Independent voters. No idea how that will play out in the coming months. Let's hope no photos emerge of Bloomberg in blackface.

I would say that stop and frisk is already much, much worse then blackface. But as a minority myself and what Mclaren fails to understand there is a big difference in how Trump goes about his racism compared to others. He doesnt acknowledge anything, he denies it, he covers it up, he also thinks minorities should thank him being the president etc. The only person that comes near being narcissistic, delusional person and in love with himself I know, is Billy Mitchell from King of Kong.