The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Danny]

It seems illogical to use that argument

Welcome to the fun and wacky world of conservatism.

 

[Dotini]

It would be interesting to take a poll and see how many GTP'rs would clearly assert that children have no right to a father and a mother. I personally would make no such assertion. My father and mother divorced, and I feel that my brother and I suffered in many ways as a result.

 

[counter345]

It would be interesting to take a poll and see how many GTP'rs would clearly assert that children have no right to a father and a mother. I personally would make no such assertion. My father and mother divorced, and I feel that my brother and I suffered in many ways as a result.

it would also be interesting to take a poll and see how many GTPers would clearly assert that children can't have two mothers or fathers for any apparent reason.

According to the American Psychological Association Policy Statement on Sexual Orientation, Parents, & Children, "there is no reliable evidence that homosexual orientation per se impairs psychological functioning. Second, beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are not fit parents have no empirical foundation."

The American Psychological Association also states "Research suggests that sexual identities (including gender identity, gender-role behavior, and sexual orientation) develop in much the same ways among children of lesbian mothers as they do among children of heterosexual parents"

http://www.apa.org/about/policy/parenting.aspx

Edit:

My father and mother divorced, and I feel that my brother and I suffered in many ways as a result.

My father left my mother when I was five. I was not only not negatively affected (in my belief), but I was benefit from not being also raised by an abusive father.

There's also the argument that two fathers or two mothers would be better for a child than in a state-based orphanage, where people are paid to look after children, rather than out of love.

 

[DK]

TBH, if I was given the choice between divorced parents and married parents that were constantly at each other's throats, I'd go for the former.

 

[Carbonox]

A loving gay couple is always a better choice for a kid than an abusive straight couple.

 

[Johnnypenso]

A loving gay couple is always a better choice for a kid than an abusive straight couple.

How about an abusive gay couple vs. a divorced straight couple?

 

[Dotini]

I don't mind if gay people take comfort in each others arms.

We live in a damaged world. Some 40% of Europeans suffer mental illness of one kind or another http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/04/us-europe-mental-illness-idUSTRE7832JJ20110904 , and no one understands why cancer, autism, suicide, unemployment, underemployment and debt are rising to socially destructive levels. The world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket, and there's likely no fixing it. It doesn't matter much to me, being old but healthy and free of debt.

The world really belongs to the young. If you want it. I expect you to do whatever makes you feel good. I always did!

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Liquid]

How about an abusive gay couple vs. a divorced straight couple?

The divorced straight couple. As long as they were civil, of course.

It's about what they are like as parents, not who they are as people.

 

[Carbonox]

How about an abusive gay couple vs. a divorced straight couple?

Surely there's got to be more choices than that, but in any situation, the less abusive couple wins.

 

[counter345]

I don't mind if gay people take comfort in each others arms.

We live in a damaged world. Some 40% of Europeans suffer mental illness of one kind or another http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/04/us-europe-mental-illness-idUSTRE7832JJ20110904 , and no one understands why cancer, autism, suicide, unemployment, underemployment and debt are rising to socially destructive levels. The world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket, and there's likely no fixing it. It doesn't matter much to me, being old but healthy and free of debt.

The world really belongs to the young. If you want it. I expect you to do whatever makes you feel good. I always did!

Respectfully,
Steve

I'm not sure how that justifies your opinion on gay adoption. You state that the world belongs to the young, so why not give them a choice of parents instead of orphanage?

 

[Exorcet]

It would be interesting to take a poll and see how many GTP'rs would clearly assert that children have no right to a father and a mother.

What about having the right to be adopted by the best possible family?

My father and mother divorced, and I feel that my brother and I suffered in many ways as a result.

I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm certain there was a mirror situation where the divorce was the best thing to happen to the family.

 

[Gazumagi]

http://www.lgbt-today.com/blog/559-...school-clubs-to-prevent-gay-straight-alliance

progress! :/

 

[Dotini]

I'm not sure how that justifies your opinion on gay adoption. You state that the world belongs to the young, so why not give them a choice of parents instead of orphanage?

I don't recall stating an opinion on gay adoption - only a question on whether or not children have a right to a mother and father. In the best of all possible worlds - which we do not enjoy - I believe that would be best. In the present damaged world, we have to make lemonade when we are served with lemons.

What about having the right to be adopted by the best possible family?

I'm not sure if that's a right, but it sounds like a good goal. Unfortunately, marriage is a failed institution. More than half of all first marriages end in divorce, and more than 75% of 2nd marriages do too. Inevitably, the children do most of the suffering.

I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm certain there was a mirror situation where the divorce was the best thing to happen to the family.

In our case, it was best for the parents but not for the kids. The rights and needs of adults took precedence over those of children, as I suppose they must.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Azuremen]

I don't recall stating an opinion on gay adoption - only a question on whether or not children have a right to a mother and father. In the best of all possible worlds - which we do not enjoy - I believe that would be best. In the present damaged world, we have to make lemonade when we are served with lemons.

But you have expressed an opinion here, because it is clear you view it as a less than ideal option compared to a mother and father. You may want to consider your use of rhetoric (I know you are fond of it) as it does convey an opinion.

 

[FoolKiller]

But you have expressed an opinion here, because it is clear you view it as a less than ideal option compared to a mother and father. You may want to consider your use of rhetoric (I know you are fond of it) as it does convey an opinion.

Considering he is talking about an adoption situation, which implies a situation where the child has lost access to their natural parents and became a ward of the state or something similar, a perfect world would be where the child didn't have to be separated from the birth parents. And yes, this applies even when the parents were abusive (or other equally bad parenting situations), as the perfect world scenario would mean the parents were good parents.

At most it could be inferred that he is saying that an adopted mother and father would be better, but I'm not getting that from how he is approaching the subject.

His initial point, that a right to a mother and father parentage is not possible or even properly enforced, thus making it a weak argument, still stands. And considering that he is pointing out a fault in the argument against gay adoption, assuming he opposes it seems to be a bit of a leap.

 

[Dotini]

use of rhetoric (I know you are fond of it)

Guilty. All I can hope for is that my words are occasionally amusing. My points are often errant.

assuming he opposes

As life goes on, I find myself opposing less and less. I marched for civil rights in the 60's, against Vietnam war in the 70's, and against Iraq war in the 00's. I broke my drum and lost my voice, and now my protesting days are over. No matter what they do wrong, which is plenty.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Johnnypenso]

The divorced straight couple. As long as they were civil, of course.

It's about what they are like as parents, not who they are as people.

I would think those two things would be inexorably linked.

Surely there's got to be more choices than that, but in any situation, the less abusive couple wins.

I was only giving a silly example to counter your silly example...sorry.

 

[Azuremen]

Considering he is talking about an adoption situation, which implies a situation where the child has lost access to their natural parents and became a ward of the state or something similar, a perfect world would be where the child didn't have to be separated from the birth parents. And yes, this applies even when the parents were abusive (or other equally bad parenting situations), as the perfect world scenario would mean the parents were good parents.

Sorry, I may have read it as referring to ideal situations in general and made the leap from adoption to artificial insemination, etc.

The way I read it was he felt the ideal situation, in a perfect world, would always that a child has a mother and father as the parents in their life. And seeing how the world is less than ideal, the less ideal solution of same-sex parents is acceptable.

I wasn't saying he was opposing same-sex parents, but more commenting on how it felt, to me, that he felt is was less than ideal in general.

 

[Carbonox]

I was only giving a silly example to counter your silly example...sorry.

I didn't realize my example was silly to you, thought I was making a point there about some gay couples providing a whole lot of a better environment for kids than some straight couples.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't realize my example was silly to you, thought I was making a point there about some gay couples providing a whole lot of a better environment for kids than some straight couples.

I think your example was silly and meaningless.

"A loving gay couple is always a better choice for a kid than an abusive straight couple."

An [insert anything here including pack of wolves] is always a better choice for a kid than an abusive straight couple." ..would also be true...

 

[Carbonox]

I think your example was silly and meaningless.

"A loving gay couple is always a better choice for a kid than an abusive straight couple."

An [insert anything here including pack of wolves] is always a better choice for a kid than an abusive straight couple." ..would also be true...

Well, some people still seem to think that being gay is worse than being abusive.

 

[hogger129]

I am indifferent to it all. I just don't see why the need to be in everyone's face about it.

 

[Danny]

Out of interest, how would you define being in everyone's face?

 

[Liquid]

I am indifferent to it all. I just don't see why the need to be in everyone's face about it.

As opposed to the heterosexuality that's in your face everywhere, everyday.

 

[Azuremen]

I think your example was silly and meaningless.

And this point of yours was any better, or of any merit at all?

How about an abusive gay couple vs. a divorced straight couple?

All I saw was a poor effort to stir the pot, or to try to undermine the rather valid reasoning point Carbonox gave.

Though, where do you stand on the gay adoption issue anyhow?

 

[Johnnypenso]

And this point of yours was any better, or of any merit at all?

All I saw was a poor effort to stir the pot, or to try to undermine the rather valid reasoning point Carbonox gave.

Though, where do you stand on the gay adoption issue anyhow?

I don't find it valid reasoning to compare anything to an abusive couple as a way of saying it's better. Living alone in the woods is better than being raised by parents that lay on the leather every day.

You first, where do you stand on the gay adoption issue and why do you want to know where I stand?

 

[Azuremen]

I don't find it valid reasoning to compare anything to an abusive couple as a way of saying it's better. Living alone in the woods is better than being raised by parents that lay on the leather every day.

You first, where do you stand on the gay adoption issue and why do you want to know where I stand?

If you'd read maybe the past 20 or 30 posts, you'd see where I stood. Which is I don't differentiate from straight couples at all. My opinions are hardly secret

I'm curious where you stand based entirely on your "silly" comparison and a handful of other posts.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you'd read maybe the past 20 or 30 posts, you'd see where I stood. Which is I don't differentiate from straight couples at all. My opinions are hardly secret

I'm curious where you stand based entirely on your "silly" comparison and a handful of other posts.

Go back in this thread and you'll see where I stand.

 

[Azuremen]

Go back in this thread and you'll see where I stand.

You could have just said where you stand with that post instead. Good lord, toss out opinions, belittle others, and fail to clarify yourself, all in a day.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You could have just said where you stand with that post instead. Good lord, toss out opinions, belittle others, and fail to clarify yourself, all in a day.

With an attitude like that, you can do the research yourself if you think it's that relevant to the discussion.