The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[MarinaDiamandis]

With an attitude like that, you can do the research yourself if you think it's that relevant to the discussion.

 

[Azuremen]

With an attitude like that, you can do the research yourself if you think it's that relevant to the discussion.

You know, I figured this might happen when you asked me to go first And I even played along with your attitude for a bit there.

 

[Danny]

Three teens beaten and starved to death at 'Gay Conversion Camp'.

 

[Joel]

Barbaric. What a waste of skin the people running that place are.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's horrific. Too bad they abolished the death penalty in South Africa, as that's too good for someone that would be involved in this type of murder.

In other news, an NBA player has come out as the first active, openly gay professional athlete in the 4 major team sports. Talk about breaking a barrier:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ma...llins-gay-nba-player/?hpt=hp_t1#ixzz2Rrh8O559

 

[Liquid]

Well, Robbie Rogers played for Columbus Crew in the MLS and came out as homosexual before this. MLS is an underrated, underexposed sport. It's major enough.

That aside of course, well done to Jason Collins. Another step to tackling homophobia in sports.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, Robbie Rogers played for Columbus Crew in the MLS and came out as homosexual before this. MLS is an underrated, underexposed sport. It's major enough.

That aside of course, well done to Jason Collins. Another step to tackling homophobia in sports.

A thousand guys could come out of the closet in MLS and no one would know...lol...no offense to the MLS.

 

[Liquid]

Well, in the States maybe... soccer is very much the world sport.

Speaking of which, there are four confirmed homosexual footballers whom I'm aware of. Justin Fashanau, Anton Hysen, Olivier Rouyer and Robbie Rodgers. Sadly Justin Fashanau, the world's first, committed suicide in 1997. Came out while still playing, and it was a bit of an open secret within the footballing community before then, got a lot of negative press.

Anton Hysen is a still active player in the Swedish Third Division. Nothing special there. He gets on with his life, like a normal human being.

Olivier Rouyer only came out years after retiring.

Robbie Rodgers retired because of the fact that he came out as gay, at the youthful age of 25. Kind of sad, really.

 

[Joel]

Well, Robbie Rogers played for Columbus Crew in the MLS and came out as homosexual before this. MLS is an underrated, underexposed sport. It's major enough.

Well, the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL are the 4 major North American sports, it's just the term used. The MLS lags far behind in media coverage, exposure, revenue, player salaries, etc. Honestly though, if an NHL player came out it wouldn't be a huge story in most parts of the US either.

 

[Liquid]

Wiki says that as an attended sport, the MLS is the United States' third biggest. Grounds for inclusion as a major sport.

Either way, Robbie Rodgers is the first United States sportsman to come out publicly, but again, fair play to Jason Collins. Taking nothing away from that.

 

[Joel]

TV coverage and revenue is the bigger factor, I'm not trying to diminish the MLS or anything, I watch the odd Toronto FC game, but the franchise values and such are nowhere close to even the NHL which is the runt of the 4.

I agree that eventually MLS will become part of the "major" sports, but as of now it just isn't as important to the NA sports environment. Franchise values around 5-10 million vs. even the cheapest NHL teams being worth $100M+. That, and the national TV deals (especially for the NFL) just dwarf it.

Back to the topic at hand though, glad to see an active NBA player come out. The NHL and the NHLPA (player's union) recently partnered with the "you can play" project, so perhaps there'll be an NHL player coming out soon.

 

[arora]

It seems to me soccer is something continually marketed and attempted to sell to the U.S., quite simply we don't like it. I don't think it will ever catch on the way the other sports are but that is just imo.

Having players 'come out' in the 4 we do watch is not really a big deal anymore is it? I remember Louganis being a story way back but now I just don't see it. If a story seems to help someones cause I suppose it will be aired but just like soccer, I don't think we give a rat's ass about it here.

(you can exclude the westburo guys and the screaming libs if you like)

EDIT: I forgot to mention the hiv part of it, boxers have been banned for having it, I'm not saying it's exclusive to gays or anything like that but in the NBA you cannot be on the court if you are bleeding and hiv is surely a part of that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL are the 4 major North American sports, it's just the term used. The MLS lags far behind in media coverage, exposure, revenue, player salaries, etc. Honestly though, if an NHL player came out it wouldn't be a huge story in most parts of the US either.

I think if someone came out in the NHL it would receive very little press here as well, even in the hotbed of hockey for the entire world. Sure it would make headlines for a day, then everyone would forget about it unless something unusual happened down the road. I know most Americans don't watch hockey but the one thing I love about it is that the focus is on the game itself as opposed to the personalities. American sports are very much personality driven and need to be because there is simply no sport on the planet that contains the continuous excitement and game action that hockey does. Baseball is slow as molasses, football is stop and start and mostly stop, basketball is somewhat continuous but the intensity waxes and wanes.

As such, when someone does come out, because there is so little focus on the "superstar" aspect of the game, I think it'll be nothing but an afterthought after a day or two.

 

[Joel]

There'd be a bit of a story for 2 days but it wouldn't be a big deal. People coming out just isn't as big a deal in Canada, as we've said it's just a ho-hum fact of life here. No NHL player has come out yet, but it would be a good thing though given the rather WASP conservative culture in hockey (the implicit xenophobia and racism in hockey is another topic for another thread).

I think it'll happen soon enough, there's surely a few guys in the closet and it won't be long until one or many start coming out. I think the biggest benefit would be for kids in minor hockey where "fag" is commonly used as an insult on and off the ice.

 

[FoolKiller]

Wiki says that as an attended sport, the MLS is the United States' third biggest. Grounds for inclusion as a major sport.

What are the ticket prices? At $7 a ticket minor league baseball fills the stands. Just because it won't cost hundreds of dollars for a family of four, so people go, doesn't mean they wouldn't rather be at an NFL game.

It seems to me soccer is something continually marketed and attempted to sell to the U.S., quite simply we don't like it. I don't think it will ever catch on the way the other sports are but that is just imo.

I make this comparison: We've been told we should watch soccer over and over again. They tried to ban the UFC/MMA in its earliest days. Who brings in higher viewership ratings on TV, or just gets more TV time?

Having players 'come out' in the 4 we do watch is not really a big deal anymore is it? I remember Louganis being a story way back but now I just don't see it. If a story seems to help someones cause I suppose it will be aired but just like soccer, I don't think we give a rat's ass about it here.

Well, we already had NFL players admit to supporting gay rights publicly, because they know gay players. So, once one comes out we shouldn't be too surprised.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the hiv part of it, boxers have been banned for having it, I'm not saying it's exclusive to gays or anything like that but in the NBA you cannot be on the court if you are bleeding and hiv is surely a part of that.

The first time I saw this was Magic Johnson. I think it was the Olympics (first, and only, Dream Team) when he got cut and another player on the other team refused to play. It caused rule makers to look at blood transmit table pathogens, and now basketball on all levels requires a bleeding player to sit out until the bleeding is stopped and patched.

And Magic Johnson was the first real public example that HIV isn't gay-exclusive, and was quite possibly the first major turning point in that stigma about homosexuality.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The first time I saw this was Magic Johnson. I think it was the Olympics (first, and only, Dream Team) when he got cut and another player on the other team refused to play. It caused rule makers to look at blood transmit table pathogens, and now basketball on all levels requires a bleeding player to sit out until the bleeding is stopped and patched.

And Magic Johnson was the first real public example that HIV isn't gay-exclusive, and was quite possibly the first major turning point in that stigma about homosexuality.

HIV isn't gay exclusive but the association of HIV/AIDS with homosexuality is statistically significant. Even today, although male homosexuals represent a tiny portion of the population they still account for a majority of AIDS cases and statistically you are something like 100x more likely to get HIV/AIDS as a male homosexual vs. heterosexuals of both sexes.

 

[BobK]

Wiki says that as an attended sport, the MLS is the United States' third biggest. Grounds for inclusion as a major sport.

They don't list horse racing, else that would be #1. I believe auto racing would be up there, too. Furthermore, the two sports "behind" them (hockey and basketball) are at essentially 100% seating capacity; they play in smaller venues. The sports played in similar sized venues have double the attendance.

 

[FoolKiller]

HIV isn't gay exclusive but the association of HIV/AIDS with homosexuality is statistically significant. Even today, although male homosexuals represent a tiny portion of the population they still account for a majority of AIDS cases and statistically you are something like 100x more likely to get HIV/AIDS as a male homosexual vs. heterosexuals of both sexes.

While there are physiological reasons for it to be more easily transmitted between homosexual males during sex than any other pairing (straight females are second most-likely), that led to a stigma that it was a gay curse. Magic Johnson broke that barrier down. It was a wake up call to the sexually active that an HIV risk was real for everyone. Africa is a good example of how easily heterosexuals can transmit it.

 

[niky]

While it first spread more easily amongst gay males in the US, HIV in less developed countries also spreads easily between heterosexuals because of the lack of condom use.

I wager its spread among gay men in the US might have something to do with condoms not being needed to prevent pregnancy, hence less incentive to use them. It's very likely, though, that promoting greater condom use can have the same effects as it does with heterosexuals.

 

[FoolKiller]

While it first spread more easily amongst gay males in the US, HIV in less developed countries also spreads easily between heterosexuals because of the lack of condom use.

I wager its spread among gay men in the US might have something to do with condoms not being needed to prevent pregnancy, hence less incentive to use them. It's very likely, though, that promoting greater condom use can have the same effects as it does with heterosexuals.

While protection and its primary use as birth control likely plays a role, without condom use heterosexual males have a lower risk of transmission due to the nature of...uh...fluid transmission. It's very possible, but less likely.

 

[Danny]

This is pretty neat, although it feels a little bit like forcing the issue. Maybe it's just me.

 

[Joel]

I find that tough questions like that can get people to reevaluate their views. For example, I've called out friends before who said gay guys shouldn't hold hands or kiss in public, but they watch girl on girl porn and cheer when two girls make out at concerts and such. Sometimes we aren't aware of our subconscious reaction to things, so those kinds of questions can get people to look logically rather than just going with a gut feeling and assuming that's logical.

Although pressing the issue is a good point as well. It's interesting though, it does demonstrate how silly the idea of choosing sexuality is. I didn't turn 12 and say "well, guess I want to be straight".

 

[Liquid]

This is pretty neat, although it feels a little bit like forcing the issue. Maybe it's just me.

I think viewpoints like that have to be challenged though. As Noob says, it's a good way to get people to think about their views in a way which they might not have previously considered.

Your sexual orientation shouldn't matter. It should be as trivial as your hair colour or nose length. Unfortunately, we live in a world where going against the majority is deemed not just different, but potentially 'weird' and it leads to a misunderstanding. A misunderstanding such as proclaiming that being homosexual is a choice, but being heterosexual isn't. I find the suggestion/implication that everyone is born heterosexual and only homosexuals or bisexuals choose to diverge down a different path hugely arrogant.

It's not thought by everyone, of course. Fortunately at least some people accept homosexuality, and sexuality generally for that matter, for what it is; just a facet of life. It shouldn't affect how you judge or perceive someone.

 

[PeterJB]

The cause of homosexuality has always interested me. The fact the LGBT community is in quite a significant minority suggests to me that it is cause by external factors during infancy rather than being genetic. In evolutionary terms is seems like a genetic 'dead end' to me, unless it does happen to be some kind of evolutionary mechanism to cope with population control or whatever.

 

[braunracing88]

I came across this article after a friend showed it to me on Facebook, and I found it rather disturbing.
http://www.advocate.com/society/you...-teen-arrested-expelled-same-sex-relationship

 

[Liquid]

The cause of homosexuality has always interested me. The fact the LGBT community is in quite a significant minority suggests to me that it is cause by external factors during infancy rather than being genetic. In evolutionary terms is seems like a genetic 'dead end' to me, unless it does happen to be some kind of evolutionary mechanism to cope with population control or whatever.

I wouldn't have thought that an infant's mind would be able to respond to external stimuli in a sexual manner. It's true that infants develop language skills subconsciously from as early as in the womb, but I can't see how a baby responding to external factors would influence sexuality. Or what those factors may be; because heterosexual couples raise homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual children. As well as all the other sexualities.

I've always thought that these things are genetic. Chemical balances and whatnot. But what causes that, too much of one or too little of another, I don't know.

 

[suarez7]

I agree Pako. It's all the same. No sin is greater than another.
As far as homosexuality is concerned , I have a problem with people who think they are born homosexual. It's a choice not a birth defect.

It is not actually a choice, it has been proven that you are born with it. Thats why they cant help it.

 

[Famine]

Boy am I glad you answered that 10 year old post by a member who hasn't been to the site in 3 years.

The cause of homosexuality has always interested me. The fact the LGBT community is in quite a significant minority suggests to me that it is cause by external factors during infancy rather than being genetic. In evolutionary terms is seems like a genetic 'dead end' to me, unless it does happen to be some kind of evolutionary mechanism to cope with population control or whatever.

There are myriad "genetic dead ends" - inheritable disorders that prevent continued procreation - in the human gene pool. They also represent a significant minority. Cystic fibrosis is one and it's pretty concrete that it's genetic and not caused by external factors in infancy...

 

[Spoil-t]

Homosexuality is genetic & a choice. It's your choice to act on those urges or not to act.

Now the real problem is pansexuals like me. Those satanic creatures should be dealt with! (I always say stuff like that when people call me a fag)

 

[Lucas]

I think that when we speak about homosexuality we speak about the desire, not the actions. In that regard, homosexuality is not a choice, just as heterosexuality is not a choice as well.

I can't choose myself to feel attracted to men.