The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Duke
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I think homosexuality is:

  • a problem that needs to be cured.

    Votes: 88 6.0%
  • a sin against God/Nature.

    Votes: 145 9.8%
  • OK as long as they don't talk about it.

    Votes: 62 4.2%
  • OK for anybody.

    Votes: 416 28.2%
  • nobody's business but the people involved.

    Votes: 765 51.8%

  • Total voters
    1,476
Roe v. Wade isn’t a law, it’s a ruling. The ruling was that the right to abortion is granted by the constitution, which makes it so.
And, like Obergefell and Lawrence, it's a due process ruling - which essentially means that the court ruled that abortion is covered by the right to personal autonomy established by 14A, which also establishes that states may not enact laws that breach the first 13 Amendments.

Obergefell (gay marriage) and Lawrence (sodomy) are also due process rulings hinging on 14A. As is Griswold (contraception) and Loving (interracial marriage), all of which except Loving (for... some reason) have been specifically named by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as rulings that must be revisited.

States that already have laws against these things (Texas being one) have never repealed them and any ruling overturning the previous rulings will immediately trigger those laws once again becoming law.

They are literally telling you what they're coming for next. You'd have to be gaslit beyond all reason to think "Well, they're not going to make doing gay stuff illegal because gay is accepted now"; they're coming for Lawrence, and when they overturn it, gay stuff will automatically become illegal in states where it's only not illegal because Lawrence prevents the existing laws from being enforceable.


But then anyone who thinks the right to bodily autonomy is a state's choice is already so far beyond reason that it's simply not worth talking to them in the first place. Every other right is founded on this one.
 
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May I suggest that if you want a thread for LGBT to not turn political, it's probably best to acknowledge the GOP don't have their (and your) best interests at heart....
 
Obergefell (gay marriage) and Lawrence (sodomy) are also due process rulings hinging on 14A. As is Griswold (contraception) and Loving (interracial marriage), all of which except Loving (for... some reason) have been specifically named by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as rulings that must be revisited.
So, the way I understand them, there's maybe meaningful difference between some of these decisions and how they were reached. How meaningful is certainly debatable.

The holdings in Griswold and Lawrence relied on straight* Substantive Due Process (for those unfamiliar, this is the judicial doctrine that certain unenumerated rights are innate and fall under the "liberty" referred to in the Due Process Clause in both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments--but really the latter as it's applied in Substantive Due Process decisions--and as such are deemed to be beyond the reach of state action) application. The holding in Roe (and the subsequent Planned Parenthood v. Casey) was also a straight Substantive Due Process application.

*Obviously somewhat less straight in the case of Lawrence--sorry, not sorry.

The Fourteenth Amendment actually figures doubly in the holdings of Loving and Obergefell. Substantive Due Process applied to both, of course, but they were both also founded on the Equal Protection Clause (
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."). Obergefell is somewhat unique in that the majority placed special emphasis on Substantive Due Process and held Equal Protection application as secondary. Justices Alito and Thomas seem, inexplicably, to believe that special emphasis somehow nullifies Equal Protection application even as straight Equal Protection precedent exists (Brown v. Board of Education is the big one).

So they'd have to be what, like four?
I think it depends on what a supposed "sexual thing" actually is. I can totally get behind the idea that people aren't necessarily capable of forming a complete understanding of subject matter all at once. But this isn't actually about definitions. This isn't about preventing or protecting against legitimate harm. This is about moral panic. This is about "trans[ing] the kids." Modern American conservatism is mental illness.
 
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@Chrunch Houston is there a certain amount of self-loathing, or do you see yourself as somehow more "acceptable" in the eyes of conservatives/GOP compared to, say, trans people/non-binary individuals?

EDIT: I phrased that wrong so I'll just simply ask: do you have some feelings of self-loathing?
I have never had a sense of self loathing. Even as a teen. And I think that comes from the fact that I never even considered that I might be gay. Although looking back, I can now see clearly that I was.

The first person I ever fell in love with was a guy I met in the army. I had a girlfriend back home at the time, but the feelings I had for her were nothing compared to what I felt for that guy. I came out to my friends as soon as I got home from the army.
 
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Homie is literally advocating for Al-Qaeda style tactics.

@Chrunch Houston these nutbags are the people that you are defending the more you try skirt around the issues and act as if they won't come for you if they were given an actual chance. There are a substantial number of people that actively want you dead simply because of who you are, and yet you continue to defend them.
 
Homie is literally advocating for Al-Qaeda style tactics.

@Chrunch Houston these nutbags are the people that you are defending the more you try skirt around the issues and act as if they won't come for you if they were given an actual chance. There are a substantial number of people that actively want you dead simply because of who you are, and yet you continue to defend them.
No but what they're really upset about is Drag Queen Story Hour and that puts a target on all of the gays.
 
Homie is literally advocating for Al-Qaeda style tactics.

@Chrunch Houston these nutbags are the people that you are defending the more you try skirt around the issues and act as if they won't come for you if they were given an actual chance. There are a substantial number of people that actively want you dead simply because of who you are, and yet you continue to defend them.
You honestly think I would defend that preacher? All though I would defend his right to say what he said.

Did you notice that he appeared to be in front of a crowd, looking from side to side. If there were people there, the little lead rocks joke got no reaction. Where were the cheers? Even hard core christians don't want to hear that **** anymore. The world is a changin', and I'm not gonna start voting commie just because I am gay.

You guys know, Clinton pushed the Defense of Marriage Act, and Obama said he believed marriage was between a man and a woman.

Yup, times are changing quickly. stares optimistically up, to the future
 
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and I'm not gonna start voting commie just because I am gay.
Well, that took a turn for the absurd rather quickly.

You. Do. NOt. Know. What. That. Word Means!

The US has no, zero, zilch, commies in mainstream politics.

Bernie isn't a commie (or even close)
AOC isn't a commie (or even close)
'The squad' aren't commies (or even close)

US mainstream politics barely has anyone left of centre and the above barely move that blip a jot. What you do have a choice between is voting for a party that has consistently and historically fought to undermine, deny and remove rights from minority groups, or one that is fighting to protect them.
 
Well, that took a turn for the absurd rather quickly.

You. Do. NOt. Know. What. That. Word Means!

The US has no, zero, zilch, commies in mainstream politics.

Bernie isn't a commie (or even close)
AOC isn't a commie (or even close)
'The squad' aren't commies (or even close)

US mainstream politics barely has anyone left of centre and the above barely move that blip a jot. What you do have a choice between is voting for a party that has consistently and historically fought to undermine, deny and remove rights from minority groups, or one that is fighting to protect them.
Hey, if you guys can paint all Republicans as bigots, then I can can call the dims commies.
 
Hey, if you guys can paint all Republicans as bigots, then I can can call the dims commies.
Thanks for the childish admission of bad faith.

"Shooting gay people in the back of the head = not bigot
Advocating for greater wealth redistribution and cheaper healthcare = radical Stalinist"

The difference is, we have receipts.
 
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It’s hilarious thinking “commies” on one side is an equivalent to bigots on the other.

“Socialized healthcare and honest rights for all” against “Condemn gays, abortions, minorities, anyone not like us, really. The Bible say it so for America.”
 
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I've not, rather I've pointed out (accurately) that the ones driving the party, and most importantly sat on SCOTUS are.

That you think the two sides in this are even remotely equitable in terms of abuse of rights is depressing.

Republicans not going after LBGT rights at all...

So a leftist owned rag pens an opinion piece, and tries to pass it off as legitimate news, and you want to use that as some kind of source?

Sorry but I quit reading as soon as I saw the word Florida.
 
So a leftist owned rag pens an opinion piece, and tries to pass it off as legitimate news, and you want to use that as some kind of source?

Sorry but I quit reading as soon as I saw the word Florida.
How the hell do you expect to be taken seriously when you actively refuse to actually read sources.

The degree of mental gymnastics you engage in to excuse those who are open about wishing you harm and are working to remove your rights.

As you actually asinine enough to think that what they are starting to do in schools is going to end with schools? Nor is it 'leftist opinion' that LBGT rights are being removed in schools, its a fact that GOP politicians are open, honest, and proud of.
 
So a leftist owned rag pens an opinion piece, and tries to pass it off as legitimate news, and you want to use that as some kind of source?

Sorry but I quit reading as soon as I saw the word Florida.
He's trying to communicate with you about some of the abhorrent unconstitutional stuff happening against gay people in Florida. Why would you shut your eyes to that just because you think there might be an opinion in it you don't agree with?
 
If you won't accept the Washington Post for whatever reason, here are completely unbias sources about what's happening:





This is why Trumplicans are beyond hope, they purposely ignore what's going on. Seriously, the people that are so far up Trump's ass that they can smell the pre-digested burnt meat and ketchup are one of the biggest threats to this country.
 
So a leftist owned rag pens an opinion piece, and tries to pass it off as legitimate news, and you want to use that as some kind of source?
Please point out in Scaff's article where there's any mention about it being an opinion piece.
Sorry but I quit reading as soon as I saw the word Florida.
^When you say stuff like this...
You honestly think I would defend that preacher?
...then you are, at least by proxy, actively defending that preacher. The preacher who advocated using actual Al-Qaeda as a way of eliminating gay people. Limiting and/or eliminating education on an unsavory topic is also a tactic used by them (and most authoritarian governments in history), as the two have been shown to go hand-in-hand.

You denying actual current events gives leeway to the people who have loudly and clearly shown that they want you and millions of other Americans removed from existence. The fact that you try and move the spotlight away from this problem and deny reality with continued bad-faith arguments is disgusting.
...and I'm not gonna start voting commie just because I am gay.
Scaff has already covered this, so I have nothing else to add other than: lmao.
...Obama said he believed marriage was between a man and a woman.
He did, and then he changed his mind.
 
here are completely unbias sources
InB4 "You're using the wrong chart, AP is a biased leftist rag website too. La la la pokes fingers in ears".
Screen-Shot-2017-04-23-at-1.43.33-PM (1).png
 
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He's trying to communicate with you about some of the abhorrent unconstitutional stuff happening against gay people in Florida. Why would you shut your eyes to that just because you think there might be an opinion in it you don't agree with?
Here is the part of the Florida bill that has the activists panties in a wad.

97 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
98 parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
99 in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age
100 appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in
101 accordance with state standards.

Here is the whole bill.

Tell me what is abhorrent, unconstitutional, and against gay people in this bill.
Please point out in Scaff's article where there's any mention about it being an opinion piece.
It doesn't say it is an opinion piece, but it is. That's my point. It is propaganda.
You can just sound it out.
:lol:
Do you not understand how much that actually undermines your claims?

He's attempting to sue against satire, something the 1st quite clearly protects.

They do not care about rights.
Undermines what claims? I was not giving an opinion there, just a fact. Oh and when you quoted me you left out the LOL.
LOL
here is what he is suing over
context
 
Here is the part of the Florida bill that has the activists panties in a wad.

97 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third
98 parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur
99 in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age
100 appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in
101 accordance with state standards.

Here is the whole bill.

Tell me what is abhorrent,...
The fact that discussing these topics in a classroom in any capacity is a criminal offense, basically making it a crime to teach kids about the other people that they will inevitably interact with at some point in their lives, is abhorrent. That portion of life is a major developmental stage for kids, as that's when the foundation of their personality and understanding (as well as how they respond to things they may not be familiar with) really starts to significantly take shape.

It's also abhorrent because it screws over students who are LGBTQ (as well as any LGBTQ teachers, general faculty and third-parties), because now they can't go to their teachers or administrators at their school to seek help, advice or, well, education about themselves, because there will be a very real fear on the teacher's and/or schools end of facing criminal charges if they try to help their student, especially considering how tumultuous those years can be for a kid. Denying any vital resources to students, especially resources to help them power through an extremely confusing and overwhelming time in their lives, via the threat of prosecution of the adults whose job it is to educate and help them is 100% pure evil.

Lastly, the obviously purposeful vagueness of the writing in this law, which I took the liberty of underlining, is also a major problem.

  • Who/what determines what is and isn't age appropriate?
  • Who/what determines what is "developmentally appropriate," whatever the hell that means?
  • What are the "state standards," and who/what determines what is and isn't kosher to talk about in the classroom, and what is the threshold between disciplinary action and/or criminal action against the instructor?

It's clear-as-day that the law was written in this way to make it easier to punish people who are sympathetic to the LGBTQ community (aka educated people), because the threshold for what's appropriate can (and likely will) change on a person-to-person basis. That lack of consistency, as well as the vagueness of the law(s) in question and the potential repercussions for saying the wrong thing around the wrong person at the wrong time, while giving the teacher no real defense of their own is, again, pure evil (and imo, about as Un-American as one could possibly be).
...unconstitutional,...
The fact that discussing these topics is a criminal offense, which is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
...and against gay people in this bill.
See above.
It doesn't say it is an opinion piece, but it is. That's my point. It is propaganda.
Prove it. Please prove how an article that closely discusses several bills that have actually been signed into law in various states in this country, and the repercussions of these bills that are blindingly obvious to anyone who has a shred of common sense, many of which are backed by reports from experts in these respective areas, is "propaganda."
 
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The fact that discussing these topics is a criminal offense, which is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
The law creates a civil cause of action, basically telling people that they can sue a school district if they don't like something and they may be awarded a judgment per the law. And that's very deliberate.

This is Republicans' new favorite arrow in their quiver since first nocking it with Texas' implementation of SB8 (the six-week abortion ban). The reason they like it so much is that it actually forestalls constitutional challenge. There is no direct state action. The only state action is adjudication itself.

What this particular law does is weigh the wants and wills of some (because one doesn't actully have a right to not hear something they don't like) favorably against the expressive rights of others, and it does so without even attempting to define legitimate harm (not attempting to define legitimate harm is popular, evidenced by Chrunch's repeated disregard for direct solicitations), which is also deliberate because definitions limit the scope of the law's application and the point is to chill expression of which these mother****ers don't like. It's codification of that which Republicans decry as "cancel culture" (well, Republicans decry so many things as "cancel culture," but getting someone fired--or "canceled"--because of something they said is the root of it) and has already resulted on jobs lost.

[I desperately need to proofread; "abartion" and "legitinate" corrected.]
 
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