The Homosexuality Discussion Thread

[Public'sTwin]

my opinion is part of my religion its a man/woman only relationship, but i do not mess with others opinions or choices on there sexuality or homosexuality

wat



where

 

[BobK]

Here is the last thing I'm gonna say on this topic: People can say what they want

[Stuff]

[More stuff]

If my voice got heard Romney would've been imprisoned for his ridiculously stupid comments and accusations.

So first of all, we have the hypocrisy of "last thing I'm gonna say" followed by several followups. Then, the biggie here, people can say what they want. Unless you don't like it, in which case they should be imprisoned.

 

[Gonales]

So first of all, we have the hypocrisy of "last thing I'm gonna say" followed by several followups. Then, the biggie here, people can say what they want. Unless you don't like it, in which case they should be imprisoned.

How about making a useful comment? I mean, this IS an opinions threads, so I'm entitled to defending it.

Plus, if I point out the last thing I wanted to say about the topic and people start saying stuff like I'm on the first step to the path towards fascism... Of course I'm going to react.

 

[mazdaman]

Gonales are we personally offending you?

 

[Famine]

Plus, if I point out the last thing I wanted to say about the topic and people start saying stuff like I'm on the first step to the path towards fascism... Of course I'm going to react.

Wanting people locked up for their opinions is fascism. If you don't like it when someone points out your opinions are fascist, don't hold fascist opinions - or express them.

Of course you're free to - freedom of speech and all that - but that doesn't give you freedom from the consequence of having it pointed out.

Neat, isn't it?

 

[Gonales]

Gonales are we personally offending you?

Some are. Some aren't.

Wanting people locked up for their opinions is fascism. If you don't like it when someone points out your opinions are fascist, don't hold fascist opinions - or express them.

Of course you're free to - freedom of speech and all that - but that doesn't give you freedom from the consequence of having it pointed out.

Neat, isn't it?

You don't seem to understand that I do know where the line is. Imo, Romney deserves to be locked up. Not because of his mental instability (aka his 'ideas'), but because of the fact, what he would do to others with the changes he would make. The changes he would have made if he had been elected would have only been allowed because he would have been president. And I'm not.

Hence, the only thing I could do and did, is asking for a little kindness from other people. But if you, as moderator, want to give people the freedom to be assholes, go ahead.

 

[Famine]

You don't seem to understand that I do know where the line is. Imo, Romney deserves to be locked up. Not because of his mental instability (aka his 'ideas'), but because of the fact, what he would do to others with the changes he would make.

If you think anyone should be locked up for what they say about what they would do without actually doing anything, you have no clue where the line is.

The changes he would have made if he had been elected would have only been allowed because he would have been president.

What changes? As far as I'm aware he only ever said he thought marriage was between a man and a woman, rather than proposing a raft of homophobic legislation.

That aside, any such proposals would be non-Constitutional. They'd be shot down by the Senate and then by the Supreme Court. I know Obama's got a bit of a laissez-faire attitude to the Constitution (despite lecturing in Constitutional Law back in the day) and he gets away with it, but I doubt they'd let any President get away with any act that makes the LGBT community say he should be locked up.

Hence, the only thing I could do and did, is asking for a little kindness from other people. But if you, as moderator, want to give people the freedom to be assholes, go ahead.

What does being a moderator have to do with anything?

 

[Müle]

Imo, Romney deserves to be locked up.

Seeing as my last post was ignored...

You are aware that you're absolutely no better than the Muslim theocracy nations that imprison people for being gay, right?

First you censor and imprison people for saying an opinion (regardless of how silly that opinion is), and eventually you could very well be imprisoning people for being straight.

 

[Gonales]

If you think anyone should be locked up for what they say about what they would do without actually doing anything, you have no clue where the line is.

Have you actually read about Romney? What kind of person he is? Yes he deserves to be locked up. What good will come from this world if people like that get a shot at becoming the worlds most powerful man?

What changes? As far as I'm aware he only ever said he thought marriage was between a man and a woman, rather than proposing a raft of homophobic legislation.

That aside, any such proposals would be non-Constitutional. They'd be shot down by the Senate and then by the Supreme Court. I know Obama's got a bit of a laissez-faire attitude to the Constitution (despite lecturing in Constitutional Law back in the day) and he gets away with it, but I doubt they'd let any President get away with any act that makes the LGBT community say he should be locked up.

You doubt it. But what if it had been different?
Obviously a lot of people voted for Romney, and a lot of them might not have considered the homosexuality debate in their voting. But for those that did, wouldn't it be a signal when Romney would get somehow penalized for his statements?

What does being a moderator have to do with anything?

A moderator, much like a teacher, a cop... Those people should be looked up to, they should be examples towards others. And the fact that you would allow homophobic talk... well. I guess you can guess how I'd feel about that.

 

[sumbrownkid]

What does being a moderator have to do with anything?

Nothing. She just does not have anymore viable arguments against you.

Famine can only stop the conversation if the Homophobic insults are personal and directed at someone particular in this forum. So far, you seem to think that anyone with a homophobic, racial, or any other thoughts and ideas deserve to go to jail.

What makes you any better than them when you are calling for their freedoms to be restricted just because they are using it to express their opinion on the matter?

Like I said before, and I'll say it again: A person has the right to say anything they want, just like you have the right to not pay attention to them and go about your life.

A few months ago, in an Islam thread, a member (not going to name him) came in saying the Prophet is a pedo. Was it ire inducing? Yes. Did it bother me? Yes. Did I want him to stop expressing his thoughts on the matter? No.

Why? Because that would make a hypocrite of me to do so. If I can voice my opinion, so should he.

 

[nobuffalo]

I guess you can guess how I'd feel about that.

You'd feel he should be locked up too?

 

[Famine]

Have you actually read about Romney?

Yep.

What kind of person he is? Yes he deserves to be locked up.

Again, you're asking for people to be locked up for holding opinions (or at least for holding opinions you think they hold).

What good will come from this world if people like that get a shot at becoming the worlds most powerful man?

Seems a rather empty justification for imprisoning people who don't think like you want them to.

You doubt it. But what if it had been different?

I just went through what would happen if Romney tried to enact some kind of homophobic law that you've not referenced in any way.

Obviously a lot of people voted for Romney, and a lot of them might not have considered the homosexuality debate in their voting. But for those that did, wouldn't it be a signal when Romney would get somehow penalized for his statements?

Not even sure what you're trying to say here.

A moderator, much like a teacher, a cop... Those people should be looked up to, they should be examples towards others. And the fact that you would allow homophobic talk... well. I guess you can guess how I'd feel about that.

And I have no idea what you're trying to say here either.

We don't allow it on GTPlanet. Why? Because we have no interest in entertaining people like that. They are, of course, free to think it as much as they want.

But then GTPlanet is a private place. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that lawmakers have no business restricting speech - nor that people who ask for it to do so completely fail to recognise the irony of them having the freedom to do so. I'm not a moderator of the Earth

 

[sumbrownkid]

But can you be moderator of Earth Famine?

I heard the pay is good.

 

[arora]

You don't seem to understand that I do know where the line is. Imo, Romney deserves to be locked up. Not because of his mental instability (aka his 'ideas'), but because of the fact, what he would do to others with the changes he would make.

Oh Dear.

You can't lock people up for what you think they would have, might have, you thought they could have done. You watch to many movies lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report_(film)

We have had a kkk member serve in congress not all that long ago, 80's I believe, he also ran for president although he didn't get that far. Lets hunt him down and jail him for what he would have done. His name is Duke btw.

Edit, had a fact wrong there, did not serve in congress but rather was a state rep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke

 

[Gonales]

Nothing. She just does not have anymore viable arguments against you.

Famine can only stop the conversation if the Homophobic insults are personal and directed at someone particular in this forum. So far, you seem to think that anyone with a homophobic, racial, or any other thoughts and ideas deserve to go to jail.

What makes you any better than them when you are calling for their freedoms to be restricted just because they are using it to express their opinion on the matter?

Like I said before, and I'll say it again: A person has the right to say anything they want, just like you have the right to not pay attention to them and go about your life.

A few months ago, in an Islam thread, a member (not going to name him) came in saying the Prophet is a pedo. Was it ire inducing? Yes. Did it bother me? Yes. Did I want him to stop expressing his thoughts on the matter? No.

Why? Because that would make a hypocrite of me to do so. If I can voice my opinion, so should he.

I'll say the same as before as well, since you like repeating yourself without reading what I say: Homophobic comments hurt, they 'cause a lot of bad stuff to happen. What do you think gay people feel with all the ******** Romney and the likes say about us? Lets just all make fun of the homosexuals, because they can ignore us if they want! Good plan.

The fact that someone says your Prophet is a pedo is a direct insult which could be reported isn't it? I don't know how you feel because I'm an atheist, and quite anti-religious.

You'd feel he should be locked up too?

Very funny! (Not really) But of course not. I'd just wonder what person would give a person like that a moderator status.

Oh Dear.

You can't lock people up for what you think they would have, might have, you thought they could have done. You watch to many movies lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report_(film)

We have had a kkk member serve in congress not all that long ago, 80's I believe, he also ran for president although he didn't get that far. Lets hunt him down and jail him for what he would have done. His name is Duke btw.

Edit, had a fact wrong there, did not serve in congress but rather was a state rep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke

This does not seem clear yet... There are so many people looking up to Romney, that are stupid enough to believe what he says about gay people. And no, that does not only go for marriages.

Yep.

Again, you're asking for people to be locked up for holding opinions (or at least for holding opinions you think they hold).

Yes I am, ban me for that. If that opinion is as offensive, stupid, illogical, and not based on any hard evidence, AND that opinion changes the way people think which results in other people being hurt. Yes.

Seems a rather empty justification for imprisoning people who don't think like you want them to.

There are a lot of people that don't think like I want them to. Do I care? No.
Only the ones that will definitely affect the lives of hundreds of young people not sure about coming out, or struggling with their sexuality.

I just went through what would happen if Romney tried to enact some kind of homophobic law that you've not referenced in any way.

Romney wouldn't enact them, its Obama that is undoing them. There are so many, countless laws that oppress homosexuals...

Not even sure what you're trying to say here.

I'm saying this: If there are homophobes that voted for Romney, would see what his opinion did to his career, they would reconsider being as harsh as they are, wouldn't they?

And I have no idea what you're trying to say here either.

We don't allow it on GTPlanet. Why? Because we have no interest in entertaining people like that. They are, of course, free to think it as much as they want.

But then GTPlanet is a private place. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that lawmakers have no business restricting speech - nor that people who ask for it to do so completely fail to recognise the irony of them having the freedom to do so. I'm not a moderator of the Earth

So basically what you said, is that people would be allowed to be the biggest homophobes on the planet, if you guys found that interesting?
And you try to make me feel like my morals are ****ed up?

That's the same as seeing a group of people beat up a person and clap for them. Weak, to say the least.

 

[FoolKiller]

Have you actually read about Romney? What kind of person he is? Yes he deserves to be locked up. What good will come from this world if people like that get a shot at becoming the worlds most powerful man?

As a US voter who is fairly active in my politics and studies candidates, their histories, their statements, and make a judgment based on all of that combined I am fairly well versed on Romney, and since I can count the actual differences between him and Obama on one hand, I have a good idea that it would look a lot like the last 12 years.

What is it exactly that you think he would have done, and what is the evidence you have? As a governor he didn't commit any atrocities, he did a fairly good job of managing a Winter Olympics without offending anyone, and as a business manager he did his job without anyone claiming discrimination.

And no, I didn't vote for Romney...or Obama.

You doubt it. But what if it had been different?
Obviously a lot of people voted for Romney, and a lot of them might not have considered the homosexuality debate in their voting. But for those that did, wouldn't it be a signal when Romney would get somehow penalized for his statements?

It would be a signal that we now live in a totalitarian, authoritative regime that sides with certain liberal ideas and wishes to lock up those who disagree with them. I'd be on the first flight out of that hell hole.

And the fact that you would allow homophobic talk... well. I guess you can guess how I'd feel about that.

Have you read the ToS? Famine is required to enforce those rules, as a moderator.

You don't seem to understand that I do know where the line is. Imo, Romney deserves to be locked up. Not because of his mental instability (aka his 'ideas'), but because of the fact, what he would do to others with the changes he would make.

First, his "mental instability (aka his 'ideas')"? I don't know what you think his ideas are, mainly because you have been very vague about it, but if you are referring to his religious-based belief that marriage is only between a man and a woman, then you are being offensive to many religious people. Religious belief is a legally protected group, both in the US and Internationally, so by your own wishes...

Perhaps you should be more detailed on just what you think Romney's ideas and desired actions are? So far you have accused him of what you think should be criminal acts/words without naming those acts/words.

And if you are referring to his belief on homosexual marriage then what he would do to others would be...nothing. Homosexual marriage is not legal in the US. The only action that can be taken on that issue is to legalize it, which even Obama has failed to do and said he won't do, but he won't stop it if Congress moves to do it.

So unless you have some other claims about Romney, he and Obama are barely different on this issue.

 

[Famine]

Very funny! (Not really) But of course not. I'd just wonder what person would give a person like that a moderator status.

A person like what?

Yes I am, ban me for that.

Why would we do that?

If that opinion is as offensive, stupid, illogical, and not based on any hard evidence, AND that opinion changes the way people think which results in other people being hurt. Yes.

Do you have any evidence that Mitt Romney has caused harm to anyone? Do you have any evidence that what Mitt Romney said (the stuff you haven't actually referenced yet) has caused harm to anyone? Do you have any evidence that what Mitt Romney said has caused other people to harm anyone?

There are a lot of people that don't think like I want them to. Do I care? No.
Only the ones that will definitely affect the lives of hundreds of young people not sure about coming out, or struggling with their sexuality.

All words have that power. All of them.

Romney wouldn't enact them

So... what are the changes he'd make again then?

its Obama that is undoing them.

[Citation needed]

There are so many, countless laws that oppress homosexuals...

Making more laws to oppress more people - including homosexuals, by denying them the right to speak freely - is not the solution.

I'm saying this: If there are homophobes that voted for Romney, would see what his opinion did to his career, they would reconsider being as harsh as they are, wouldn't they?

I got everything up to the first comma. After that... no clue.

So basically what you said, is that people would be allowed to be the biggest homophobes on the planet, if you guys found that interesting?

Where the hell are you pulling this crap from?

My post doesn't "basically" say that, hint at that, suggest that nor imply it. Stop making rubbish up.

And you try to make me feel like my morals are ****ed up?

You repeatedly express a desire to lock up someone for their opinions. That's fascism.

That's the same as seeing a group of people beat up a person and clap for them. Weak, to say the least.

And this is gibberish.

 

[arora]

This does not seem clear yet... There are so many people looking up to Romney, that are stupid enough to believe what he says about gay people. And no, that does not only go for marriages.

What is not clear yet, you think he had some master plot of criminal activities against gay people?

What does he say about gay people other then he does not support gay marriage? I don't support it either, I guess I am stupid and look up to a man even though I disagree with almost every policy point he ran his election on?

I think you are letting your emotions get the better of you tbh.

 

[Scaff]

The fact that someone says your Prophet is a pedo is a direct insult which could be reported isn't it? I don't know how you feel because I'm an atheist, and quite anti-religious.

No actually it was discussed at length here, in a civil and adult manner, as were the cartoons, in fact the entire spectrum of Islam as a religion was discussed (and sumbrownkid was actively involved in those debates, as were Famine and me).

Funny thing is that in a country with rules such as the ones you are proposing most of us would have been locked up for the discussion we had.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

 

[sumbrownkid]

I'll say the same as before as well, since you like repeating yourself without reading what I say: Homophobic comments hurt, they 'cause a lot of bad stuff to happen. What do you think gay people feel with all the ******** Romney and the likes say about us? Lets just all make fun of the homosexuals, because they can ignore us if they want! Good plan.

Oh boo hoo Gonales. You don't think I didn't hear my share of bigotry in the post-9/11 world? Oh I did. Round up all Muslims and send them home? Lol Gonales get real. You can't keep pulling up that hurt feelings garbage, because I've went through it. Heck we all did.

You know what else hurts? Being so sensitive to others thoughts and perceptions of you. In spite of Romney(Why are still talking about that guy?), the majority Americans obviously don't support his stance on gay rights because they went Obama.

I have yet to meet a gay person, and I've met quite a bit in South Florida, that take other people's words so severely as you do. In fact me and my classmate go back in forth with jokes that are not so PC, but we take it in stride.

The fact that someone says your Prophet is a pedo is a direct insult which could be reported isn't it? I don't know how you feel because I'm an atheist, and quite anti-religious.

Well that person was coming from a logical point. According to his nation's laws, a girl must 18 or something to get married. Some of the Prophet's wives were below that, in fact, some were barely 12. However, he was comparing modern day laws and trying to apply them to a society that lived during the dark ages. Times change, and what works today may not work back then.

To be honest, I was more annoyed because that's a common accusation of the man. But besides the point, I'd like to point out that I responded to him and try to change his view instead of accusing him of hurt feelings and should be in jail.

 

[Gonales]

All 3 of you want me to believe you guys know about the difference in life between an normal person and a homosexual. Which you obviously don't.

As for the differences between Obama and Romney, some simple facts:

1)Antidiscrimination legislation

Obama signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, expanding federal hate-crime law to include crimes motivated by gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

2) 2. Gay adoption

Obama has stated his unequivocal support for the rights of same-sex couples to adopt.
Romney said his position on gay adoption was integrally connected to his opposition to same-sex marriage. “Marriage is primarily not about adults, but about kids. A child and their development and nurturing is enhanced by access and by the nurturing of two parents of two different genders...

Those are two things out of a long list, affecting homosexuals a LOT.

This I know, simply by knowing a bit about the homosexual community when I'm not even living in the same country. Romney would oppress homosexuals for who they are, no doubt about it. And it doesn't matter what it makes me, but I wont ever accept that, even though it doesn't affect me personally. I know it affects a lot of other people.

 

[Gonales]

No actually it was discussed at length here, in a civil and adult manner, as were the cartoons, in fact the entire spectrum of Islam as a religion was discussed (and sumbrownkid was actively involved in those debates, as were Famine and me).

Funny thing is that in a country with rules such as the ones you are proposing most of us would have been locked up for the discussion we had.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

I've never said that. Would you have oppressed people because of their sexuality? No, than do not make assumptions that I said such a thing.

 

[sumbrownkid]

All 3 of you want me to believe you guys know about the difference in life between an normal person and a homosexual.

No. We want you to believe that you should harden the 🤬 up, and don't worry about hurt feelings.

Sometimes people's feelings have to get hurt to make any improvement in their lives.

And Romney has nothing to do with this topic anymore. He's gone, out, nowhere to be found. Let him play his Xbox at his mansion while we keep going on and on. His policies are not law. So why are you fretting on his stance? Especially since the majority of Americans have just said no to him?

 

[Famine]

As for the differences between Obama and Romney, some simple facts:

1)Antidiscrimination legislation

Obama signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, expanding federal hate-crime law to include crimes motivated by gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

Oh well, that's all I needed to know. A guy who was President - whose job is to sign acts into law that are not unconstitutional after senate voted on it - signed an act (did he propose it, draft it or vote on it?) he didn't think was unconstitutional after it was voted on by the Senate, while the guy whose job it isn't to do that didn't!

By the same criteria you are anti-homosexual.

2) 2. Gay adoption

Obama has stated his unequivocal support for the rights of same-sex couples to adopt.
Romney said his position on gay adoption was integrally connected to his opposition to same-sex marriage. “Marriage is primarily not about adults, but about kids. A child and their development and nurturing is enhanced by access and by the nurturing of two parents of two different genders...

Some guy thinks homosexual marriage or adoption is against his personal moral code. OH NOES! HE'S GOING TO HURT THE HOMOSEXUALS!

Those are two things out of a long list, affecting homosexuals a LOT.

You're going to need a better list to show anything there. You might also need to find out what the job of President is, because if you think it's "Make up laws according to his whim", you're badly out.

Obama merely signed an act because that is his job. Romney didn't because he wasn't President. Romney doesn't agree with homosexual marriage or adoption - how on Earth would that hurt homosexuals even if he was President?

Romney would oppress homosexuals for who they are, no doubt about it.

By what mechanism? What powers does the President of the USA have to oppress any group of US citizens?

I'll give you a clue: None.

Though I'll grant you that hasn't stopped two successive ones from trying to oppress every US citizen at once.

 

[arora]

All 3 of you want me to believe you guys know about the difference in life between an normal person and a homosexual. Which you obviously don't.

I've always considered homosexuals normal people, you don't?

As for the differences between Obama and Romney, some simple facts:

1)Antidiscrimination legislation

Obama signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, expanding federal hate-crime law to include crimes motivated by gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

I composed a post the other day that I chose not to submit, I'll just place a clip of it here. May or may not be direct relation but close enough

Consider here in the U.S. we have a law against hate crime, it can be tacked onto just about any crime you can imagine, misdemeanor to the worst of felonies. Instead of teaching people not to hate by force, what this law has done imo is open the door for more laws. Like the now domestic terrorist law frequently tacked onto just about any crime someone may commit. More laws breed more laws but if someone is not willing to follow the first law, you can write 10 more making the same activity illegal and guess what?...

2) 2. Gay adoption

Obama has stated his unequivocal support for the rights of same-sex couples to adopt.
Romney said his position on gay adoption was integrally connected to his opposition to same-sex marriage. “Marriage is primarily not about adults, but about kids. A child and their development and nurturing is enhanced by access and by the nurturing of two parents of two different genders...

Yeah, many people feel that way as well, pandering to his voter base but what would he have done about it? I'm not sure what the adoption laws are here tbh, it's not a big enough deal to me, probably not for him either.

This I know, simply by knowing a bit about the homosexual community when I'm not even living in the same country. Romney would oppress homosexuals for who they are, no doubt about it. And it doesn't matter what it makes me, but I wont ever accept that, even though it doesn't affect me personally. I know it affects a lot of other people.

He would? how exactly, you think he would have wasted his time worrying about these laws? No way, just as Obama doesn't, we have some serious problems that need to be addressed, fiscal cliff is the main one atm.

Keeping the status quo is far from "Romney would oppress" So he would not advance your cause if in office, so what. Obama doesn't do all that much either. Interesting though, why are you so worried about what is going on in a country you don't live in?

 

[Danny]

Gonales, I think you need a hug.

 

[Gonales]

arora, want an answer for the last question you asked me: read the last sentence you quoted.

Danny, maybe I do. Care to come give it to me?

 

[Scaff]

I've never said that. Would you have oppressed people because of their sexuality? No, than do not make assumptions that I said such a thing.

Yes you did say that.

You may not have said it directly, but the second you remove the rights of free speech from any group and propose locking people up simply because of what opinion they hold (as you quite clearly have) then those are the actions you are condoning.

I also find it interesting that that I'm accused of making assumptions, yet then state that I know nothing of the prejudice that homosexuals can face? Yet you know utterly nothing about me.

I'm well versed in the impact of prejudice, both against homosexuals (via one of my closest friends - who I was best man for at his civil ceremony) and via my wife and childeren. You see my wife is Anglo-Indian, which also makes my children mixed race. As such I have seen, heard and dealt with more prejudice that I ever want to come across. I've witnessed my kids being told to 🤬 off back to the place they came from and had racist graffiti sprayed on our garden fence.

So please do not presume to tell me I know nothing of prejudice.

 

[Callum B]

Gonales, I think you need a hug.

I don't think a hug's gonna do the trick Dan.

 

[arora]

arora, want an answer for the last question you asked me: read the last sentence you quoted.

Oh common, that's the same as all the kids liking Koney videos on facebook. Good news for you though all the same, he didn't get elected and I doubt he will ever run again.