The IS F, what is it, exactly?

[PaganiC12]

Is it a sedan? A sports car? A cruiser? Or a racer?

Well for a while now companies have been trying to make one car that fits all of these criteria. Mercedes' AMG, BMW's M, and Audi's RS divisions are all putting out high-horsepower high-speed sedans and coupes, with near-supercar performance. Leading the class the BMW M3 has always been a desirable car, it meshes driving and comfortable unbelievably. No company has been able to beat BMW in popularity, looking at their success with the M series, particularly with the M3.

But now Toyota has entered the ring, and taken a shot at the crown, with the Lexus IS F. The F, standing for Fuji, is supposed to be a new line in the luxurious, high-end Lexus line up. This is their first attempt, which means that they do have the knowledge or history that their rivals do, having put out previous models and receiving the feedback. The Lexus, does, however, have a 5.0 liter V8 and rear-wheel drive, a recipe with potential. So, what is good about this car, and what needs to be improved?

Well, the car does have a lot of power and torque, thanks to that big engine. The five liter puts out 417 horsepower, with a smooth 372 pounds-feet of torque. The torque curve is fairly flat, and you have grunt everywhere, theoretically. But, the car doesn't really feel quick, it has no urgency. Perhaps due to its weight, this lack of sensation really detracts from the experience. The car feels sluggish and is not enthusiastic about your input. Adding to this, dreadfully, is the EIGHT speed gear box. Eight speeds are far too many, what was the problem with six? The car never knows what gear it should be in, and in manual mode it is just as bad. You are constantly either blipping the paddle up or down, every 1,000RPM. The ratios are very close together and their are just too many of them, the acceleration or deceleration is constantly interrupted.

Now, this would be fine if the noise coming from the "quad" exhaust was a tribute to Ferrari or Lamborghini, but, again, the car feels lazy and dull. The exhaust note is not like an American V8, nor AMG's 6.2 liter 8 cylinder, it is not like a high-revving F430, either. The bottom line is, it does not excite you, you do not have the feel, the noise, or the power to push you forward. Looking back, the car, is not even THAT bad. But, for the price and for having a 5.0 liter V8, it isn't THAT good. The suspension feels vague and uncomfortable, the gearbox is fast but annoying, the noise is not thrilling, and it is fast - but it does not feel fun, nor do you feel happy.

And, that, I suppose, is the biggest problem. Why would you spend all of that money to get a car that doesn't please you? I wish I hadn't - after this test drive, I hopped back into my BMW M3. I felt at home, the manual 6-speed and that tachometer that reads to 8,300. The cars feels faster, more nimble, younger. It feels better and more oriented. And, if you want to cruise to the pits, 6th gear is long enough to settle the car down.

Lexus created a good car that has its plus points. But, it's not an ///M car, either.

 

[TECHNIKRS4]

Lol you are soooooo wrong the IS F is my fav car in GT5P.

 

[XTR-boston77]

Are you sure you don't work for Car and Driver magazine?
I agree, the M3 is an incredible piece of machinery. But I'm inclined to disagree with you about the IS-F. Real life comparo's of these two cars has the M3 narrowly beating the IS-F in most catagories. Not to shabby considering that its Toyota's first real attempt at a M3 killer.

I agree with you about the gears. It seems a bit much having to shift all the time. In game however, that can be overcome with a tune of the gears.

I like the IS-F in game. Right now I'm using my M3 and my IS-F at HSR 650pp. Both are competitive. Yes the M3 does about 1 Sec a lap faster, but it sure is fun to drive!!!

I guess I didn't answer your question. sorry.

 

[PaganiC12]

Lol you are soooooo wrong the IS F is my fav car in GT5P.

I took off all the weight and messed around with the suspension for about an hour, I couldn't get a good drift or grip set up. I guess it's not my kind of car, I'd take a NSX-R, Elise, or S2000 over it.

Are you sure you don't work for Car and Driver magazine?
I agree, the M3 is an incredible piece of machinery. But I'm inclined to disagree with you about the IS-F. Real life comparo's of these two cars has the M3 narrowly beating the IS-F in most catagories. Not to shabby considering that its Toyota's first real attempt at a M3 killer.

I agree with you about the gears. It seems a bit much having to shift all the time. In game however, that can be overcome with a tune of the gears.

I like the IS-F in game. Right now I'm using my M3 and my IS-F at HSR 650pp. Both are competitive. Yes the M3 does about 1 Sec a lap faster, but it sure is fun to drive!!!

I guess I didn't answer your question. sorry.

I'm fairly certain I don't, I just got bored.

And about the gears, I tried both really long gears so you never go past 6th, and I tried really short gears. Either way the engine just does not work with the transmission.

And all of this data/writing is based on Gran Turismo Prologue, I respect both of them in real life and would be happy with either.

 

[paskowitz]

Those "quad" exhaust pipes are fake BTW. They are just dual pipes with a cover.

To answer your question, yet another failed attempt to knock the M3 off the sports coupe/sedan thrown. Audi tried the RS4, it had the balance but simply lacked the omph. Merc tried with the C63 AMG, but forgot that just because you have nuclear missile under the hood does not mean you will go faster. And for Lexus they tried with the ISF, but did not realize that 8 speeds, fake exhausts, fancy computers, a stiff suspension and a big engine do not equal a better/faster car. So in a nutshell the ISF is for people who do not want a car as balanced as the RS4, as powerful as the Merc or as fast as the M3. The BMW M3 has been and as far as I can tell always will be the king of the sports coupe/sedan category.

This should be an interesting category when GT5 comes out. I cannot wait for some face-offs.

 

[PaganiC12]

Those "quad" exhaust pipes are fake BTW. They are just dual pipes with a cover.

To answer your question, yet another failed attempt to knock the M3 off the sports coupe/sedan thrown. Audi tried the RS4, it had the balance but simply lacked the omph. Merc tried with the C63 AMG, but forgot that just because you have nuclear missile under the hood does not mean you will go faster. And for Lexus they tried with the ISF, but did not realize that 8 speeds, fake exhausts, fancy computers, a stiff suspension and a big engine do not equal a better/faster car. So in a nutshell the ISF is for people who do not want a car as balanced as the RS4, as powerful as the Merc or as fast as the M3. The BMW M3 has been and as far as I can tell always will be the king of the sports coupe/sedan category.

Paskowitz, I know about the exhausts, and that's just sad. And I agree with you about the M3's future, it just seems to good to be beaten. BMW does not relax or take a day off, they are constantly improving so the competition will never catch up. With that being said, my favorite generation was the E46 and I am waiting to see the next 3-series, hoping that it isn't too big, isn't too heavy, and I dearly hope is it a focus sports sedan.

 

[paskowitz]

Well with fuel economy becoming a bigger issue every day, it is very likely that sports cars of the future will be lighter and tighter. For example Audi's new S4 is going to be a supercharged V6. Ferrari is not going to increase the size of its engines but rather focus on light weight materials. If I am not mistaken one such company has been doing this for years, hmmmmmm..............


Oh yeah, Lotus.

 

[The Outlaw]

First off, how can you justify trying to rate or compare two cars in reality when you're going off a test drive in some video game? That's really quite comical to me

I'm a huge fan of both the M3 and the ISF. I personally would choose the M3 everyday of the week though, simply because I enjoy the track performance and feel of a car over everyday drivability and practicality...but that's just part of being younger too. The ISF is a real legitimate contender to the M3, for folks who use the car as a daily driver/ commuter car and want something as comfortable and practical as possible while still retaining great performance. The ISF has a much tourqier motor than the M3, making everyday driving more fun on the whole as you don't have wind the motor out to 5k+ rpm to make any power. The 8-speed gearbox also helps to always put the engine in range of it's maximum torque, while improving cruising mileage as well.

Another thing with the Lexus is the fact that it is WAY more reliable than the M3 and C63, which are extremely expensive cars to repair once the warranty is up. Lastly, the ISF can be had for a few grand less the German counterparts, making it an attractive alternative. Also the motor sounds great in real life. A lot of potential buyers of the M3 enjoy the muscular sound of the ISF's 5.0 liter V8 Yamaha engine over the M3's 4.0 liter V8, which doesn't have that real raw sound. I've even read of a few M3 folks selling their E90/E92's in order to replace them with the ISF simply because they liked the sound of the motor more and thought it was a more practical/better performing car for their daily driving needs.

 

[PaganiC12]

First off, how can you justify trying to rate or compare two cars in reality when you're going off a test drive in some video game? That's really quite comical to me

I'm a huge fan of both the M3 and the ISF. I personally would choose the M3 everyday of the week though, simply because I enjoy the track performance and feel of a car over everyday drivability and practicality...but that's just part of being younger too. The ISF is a real legitimate contender to the M3, for folks who use the car as a daily driver/ commuter car and want something as comfortable and practical as possible while still retaining great performance. The ISF has a much tourqier motor than the M3, making everyday driving more fun on the whole as you don't have wind the motor out to 5k+ rpm to make any power. The 8-speed gearbox also helps to always put the engine in range of it's maximum torque, while improving cruising mileage as well.

Another thing with the Lexus is the fact that it is WAY more reliable than the M3 and C63, which are extremely expensive cars to repair once the warranty is up. Lastly, the ISF can be had for a few grand less the German counterparts, making it an attractive alternative. Also the motor sounds great in real life. A lot of potential buyers of the M3 enjoy the muscular sound of the ISF's 5.0 liter V8 Yamaha engine over the M3's 4.0 liter V8, which doesn't have that real raw sound. I've even read of a few M3 folks selling their E90/E92's in order to replace them with the ISF simply because they liked the sound of the motor more and thought it was a more practical/better performing car for their daily driving needs.

So you're getting good gas mileage in 8th gear at freeway speeds, you want to pass somebody, you need to go down four gears so you'll be at the right RPM.

Also, this review was not supposed to be realistic and I'm not advising people to buy either of this cars in real life biased on my review. This is a video game forum, and you laughed at my post. I believe I should get a cookie for that. As for people selling an M3 to get an IS F, well then, I don't know. That is just beyond me, that's like saying "Let me sell my S-class because a Hyundai Genesis is just as good." Jeremy Clarkson said it best: "It just so isn't."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk&feature=channel_page

Raw sound anyone? And show me one Lexus, any Lexus, any mods, that sounds that good. Oh yeah - and real exhaust pipes, that's a great idea.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

Well I actually love the review but, the link of the M3 is an aftermarket exhaust. Just about any v8 with a aftermarket exhaust will sound raw.

 

[The Outlaw]

So you're getting good gas mileage in 8th gear at freeway speeds, you want to pass somebody, you need to go down four gears so you'll be at the right RPM.

The ISF's transmission doesn't need to go through all gears sequentially in order to downshift from 8th to 4th. It simply jumps down to forth without having to go through 7th, 6th, or 5th.

Also, this review was not supposed to be realistic and I'm not advising people to buy either of this cars in real life biased on my review. This is a video game forum, and you laughed at my post. I believe I should get a cookie for that. As for people selling an M3 to get an IS F, well then, I don't know. That is just beyond me, that's like saying "Let me sell my S-class because a Hyundai Genesis is just as good." Jeremy Clarkson said it best: "It just so isn't."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk&feature=channel_page

Of course you're not going to sell your S-class for a Genesis, IF you have the money to afford the S-class. That's an absolute moot point, being that the S-class is more than twice the cost of the Hyundai. I guess in a video game price doesn't matter though I'll give you a cookie for the laughs you're giving me though

Raw sound anyone? And show me one Lexus, any Lexus, any mods, that sounds that good. Oh yeah - and real exhaust pipes, that's a great idea.

There you go again comparing apples to oranges. We're comparing a stock ISF to a stock M3 in terms of exhaust note. Since you're on the subject of comparing cars with modified exhaust here's an ISF with an aftermarket exhaust system



I personally like the sound of the M3 a lot more with exhaust though, but some people prefer the more throaty, rumble (nascar sound) of the IS-F's V8. I wouldn't go to say one is better than the other simply because you have a preference for one sound over the other.

...

 

[PaganiC12]

Well I actually love the review but, the link of the M3 is an aftermarket exhaust. Just about any v8 with a aftermarket exhaust will sound raw.

Thank you

And yup, that M3 has full Eisenmann Race Exhaust. And judging by the IS F video, it does not fall in the category of "just about any V8."

timeattack:

What I am saying is the IS F is equal to a Hyundai Gensesis. I've sat in both cars and be driven in an M3, and you cannot match an M car. Their racing, their road cars, the engineering and history. They know what they are doing - more than AMG, more than RS, more than F. They might be "expensive" but nothing major goes wrong, you cannot find a fault with German engines or transmissions, you might have electrical problems but they are built smart.

And, I said, ANY Lexus. Meaning any engine, any mod, I do not care. That M3, as you said yourself, will sound better. Yes. Better. Nascar? Seriously? I'm trying to eat dinner here.

Also, the IS F only skips gears when it is in full automatic mode, I've read the reviews and seen the road tests. If you are in manual you have to press the paddle 4 times. Honestly, 7 gears in a full automatic is fine, having a longer 7th for the freeway. But 8 ratios, even 7, are too many for the track. Lastly, press pause at 19 seconds on that video. Fake exhaust pipes? Seriously?

You can like the IS F, just not more than an M3. Not in my thread.

 

[HUGHS1E]

Having been out a few times it the E92 M3 I can say that on each occasion the exhaust note was a let down, It lacks a deep growl of a proper raw V8 sound and doesn't scream like a prancing horse, I know this can be sorted with an aftermarket piece but its an M/// so I feel sporty/raw exhaust note under hard throttle would of been in the spec. The old e46 had the raw sound and awesome induction noise so maybe its missing from this model due to crackdown on CO2 levels.

As for performance its wonderfull, balanced and just feels planted both on entrance and exit from the twisties with the smooth power delivery encouraging confidence lap after lap, when the back starts to let go its slow and controlled making powerslides a doddle.

As for the ISF, I have not driven but from the ones I have heard sound much more fruity, The new M3 feels big but nible where as I can imagine the lexus to suffer more with its heavy engineering, I'm sure its a hoot to drive/powerslide but lets face it, if the road gets twisty and an M3 is behind, you will have to work your arse off to keep it like that.

There is a problem though, In the UK there is an image problem with the M3 and now the audi RS's suffer too, so if you dont want that then you have either got the lexus/AMG to choose although I would be very tempeted with the new jaguar XFR if they issued it with paddles at least instead of a fully auto

 

[88c-v Racer]

In my opinion, comparing the two videos, the IS-F sounds better to me than the M3.

 

[PaganiC12]

Having been out a few times it the E92 M3 I can say that on each occasion the exhaust note was a let down, It lacks a deep growl of a proper raw V8 sound and doesn't scream like a prancing horse, I know this can be sorted with an aftermarket piece but its an M/// so I feel sporty/raw exhaust note under hard throttle would of been in the spec. The old e46 had the raw sound and awesome induction noise so maybe its missing from this model due to crackdown on CO2 levels.

As for performance its wonderfull, balanced and just feels planted both on entrance and exit from the twisties with the smooth power delivery encouraging confidence lap after lap, when the back starts to let go its slow and controlled making powerslides a doddle.

As for the ISF, I have not driven but from the ones I have heard sound much more fruity, The new M3 feels big but nible where as I can imagine the lexus to suffer more with its heavy engineering, I'm sure its a hoot to drive/powerslide but lets face it, if the road gets twisty and an M3 is behind, you will have to work your arse off to keep it like that.

There is a problem though, In the UK there is an image problem with the M3 and now the audi RS's suffer too, so if you dont want that then you have either got the lexus/AMG to choose although I would be very tempeted with the new jaguar XFR if they issued it with paddles at least instead of a fully auto

I think the new XF looks nice, the XF R looking the best out of the range, but, don't you think that Jaguar would feel heavy in the corners, as well? It is much more a freeway cruiser/grand tourer, than a track car or a windy road specialist.

 

[Kryz11]

Yeah I read someplace the new XK R or something like that is M5 beater..
But anyways.. M3, everyone reads its best car for the track, best car for handling.. etc.. how about real life city driving? I bet the Lexus is more fun, you can always do nice burnout with extra power, you can always enjoy being in traffic because it's more of a luxury car. You can always enjoy driving through rougher roads because its softer for your bun. So yeah in real life Lexus wins for me.. But if I was at a track every other day M3 would be my anwser.. But when am I on a track? Never..

The Lexus wins for being a good street car, not race track car.


Is Lexus coming out with faster, lighter IS F version?

 

[PaganiC12]

Yeah I read someplace the new XK R or something like that is M5 beater..
But anyways.. M3, everyone reads its best car for the track, best car for handling.. etc.. how about real life city driving? I bet the Lexus is more fun, you can always do nice burnout with extra power, you can always enjoy being in traffic because it's more of a luxury car. You can always enjoy driving through rougher roads because its softer for your bun. So yeah in real life Lexus wins for me.. But if I was at a track every other day M3 would be my anwser.. But when am I on a track? Never..

The Lexus wins for being a good street car, not race track car.


Is Lexus coming out with faster, lighter IS F version?

Just read more about the XF and XK R, and they have three more horsepower than a BMW M5, but probably won't be faster since the BMW has SMG and will weigh less. Also, I don't think there will be an IS F "CSL."

To each his own, but, I don't know. Jeremy Clarkson reviewed both the M3 Sedan and Lexus IS F and said the M3 can be soft or hard (Electronic Damping Control) but the Lexus cannot be smooth and calm on the road. Interesting, seeing how it IS a Lexus. If I was actually spending the money, I would test every single option and look at what I want.

Power? Torque? Lap times? Drifts? Burn outs? Comfort? Space? Two door? Four door? Costs? Maintenance? Warranties? Gas milage?

 

[The Outlaw]

But anyways.. M3, everyone reads its best car for the track, best car for handling.. etc.. how about real life city driving? I bet the Lexus is more fun, you can always do nice burnout with extra power, you can always enjoy being in traffic because it's more of a luxury car. You can always enjoy driving through rougher roads because its softer for your bun. So yeah in real life Lexus wins for me.. But if I was at a track every other day M3 would be my anwser.. But when am I on a track? Never..

The Lexus wins for being a good street car, not race track car.

EXACTLY 👍

Thank you

And yup, that M3 has full Eisenmann Race Exhaust. And judging by the IS F video, it does not fall in the category of "just about any V8."

timeattack:

What I am saying is the IS F is equal to a Hyundai Gensesis. I've sat in both cars and be driven in an M3, and you cannot match an M car. Their racing, their road cars, the engineering and history. They know what they are doing - more than AMG, more than RS, more than F. They might be "expensive" but nothing major goes wrong, you cannot find a fault with German engines or transmissions, you might have electrical problems but they are built smart.

I hope you realize what you're spewing is utter crap "You cannot find a fault with German engines or transmission" That's the most ludacris/biased statement I've heard yet, and one that's FAR from the truth.

I've experienced first hand how faulty the Bavarian motors can be, as I had the engine replaced in my previously owned 2001 540i thanks to a Vanos failure which grenaded the entire motor at ONLY 50k miles. I also had the entire cooling system replaced which is something that almost all E39's have problems with, including the E39 528i that I own now. One of the reasons BMW's resale values are so terrible in most cases is because they can be quite unreliable if you get a bit of bad luck, and are extremely costly to repair in most cases.

Also, have you heard about the many S54 motors found in the early E46 M3's grenading thanks to faulty oiling systems? These motors weren't exactly cheap to replace either, being that they were in the $20k range. Also, the V8 in the E39 M5 is an absolute nightmare of an engine, which commonly has massive Vanos problems which can cost you an easy $25-30k dollars to repair in the end. This is the main reason why you can pick up a E39 M5 up for only $20k dollars or so. I can go on and on about past BMW's that have major issues with the motors as well, including their past V8's which had Nickasil cylinder liner issues and their V12's that were a absolute nightmare in terms of reliability and repair.

I'm still not sure how you came up with the thought that BMW makes absolutely bulletproof motors that are faultless. Most of the their inline 6's are great, but most of their V8's and V12's in the past have been nightmares in a lot of cases. If anything, Lexus would be the one who knows how to build a super reliable, bulletproof motor.

And, I said, ANY Lexus. Meaning any engine, any mod, I do not care. That M3, as you said yourself, will sound better. Yes. Better. Nascar? Seriously? I'm trying to eat dinner here.

We already have one member who said he likes the sound of the IS-F over the M3. Your opinion of what sounds better isn't the holy grail, sorry to break it to you.

Also, the IS F only skips gears when it is in full automatic mode, I've read the reviews and seen the road tests. If you are in manual you have to press the paddle 4 times. Honestly, 7 gears in a full automatic is fine, having a longer 7th for the freeway. But 8 ratios, even 7, are too many for the track. Lastly, press pause at 19 seconds on that video. Fake exhaust pipes? Seriously?

The ISF isn't made specifically for the track anyway, nor is the M3. If you're buying a car for the track and are that worried about the performance on the track you wouldn't buy the M3 either, at least IF you had any sense. You would buy something more along the lines of a 996 GT3.

You can like the IS F, just not more than an M3. Not in my thread.

OK...I'll quit trolling in your thread hehe!

 

[Rusty*]

Those "quad" exhaust pipes are fake BTW. They are just dual pipes with a cover.

To answer your question, yet another failed attempt to knock the M3 off the sports coupe/sedan thrown. Audi tried the RS4, it had the balance but simply lacked the omph. Merc tried with the C63 AMG, but forgot that just because you have nuclear missile under the hood does not mean you will go faster. And for Lexus they tried with the ISF, but did not realize that 8 speeds, fake exhausts, fancy computers, a stiff suspension and a big engine do not equal a better/faster car. So in a nutshell the ISF is for people who do not want a car as balanced as the RS4, as powerful as the Merc or as fast as the M3. The BMW M3 has been and as far as I can tell always will be the king of the sports coupe/sedan category.

This should be an interesting category when GT5 comes out. I cannot wait for some face-offs.

Yes the face-off's in GT5 will really be something...especially when they bring out online events based around Car classes, such as a Sport Sedan's event and a Supercar's events! There should be some really competitive racing!:tup:

Well with fuel economy becoming a bigger issue every day, it is very likely that sports cars of the future will be lighter and tighter. For example Audi's new S4 is going to be a supercharged V6. Ferrari is not going to increase the size of its engines but rather focus on light weight materials. If I am not mistaken one such company has been doing this for years, hmmmmmm..............


Oh yeah, Lotus.

Haha yes thats right Lotus is a pioneer when it comes to weight reduction, I love how they build there Car's. Weight reduction has soooo many universal benefits and I'm really looking forward to seeing where this direction takes certain Manufacturer's of the Automotive industry.
Also it should be recognized that Mazda is taking a "weight reduction" approach aswell to help them meet lower emmision standards. I believe the biggest benefit of weight reduction as far as emmisions are concerned is the take-off of a Car. As a lightweight Car hasn't got to get such a heavy weight up to speed.
Weight reduction is a brilliant thing, a light Car is a fun car!
Thats why so many people have been drawn to Compact Car's, because there lighter and more manueverable. Where a heavy Car is more of the opposite and can be more dangerous to drive fast if the suspension isn't handling its weight appropriately.
Good posts mate!👍
Rusty*

 

[nk4e]

The F is for Fenomenal
GT Channel Presents:

 

[mu22stang]

Why is this in the GT5P forum? Just because the IS-F is in GT5P? This review is also very close to the Jeremy Clarkson's review of the car...

 

[PaganiC12]

timattack:

I don't know what you are talking about. My dad has a 1991 Mercedes 300E with over 200,000 miles and still has almost all original parts. He only changes the oil and adds gas. Additionally, my friend has a 1994 E34 M5 with over 100,000 and the only problem he has had is that his plastic water pump broke so he put in a metal one. My brother has a E36 M3 with over 100,000 miles and has not have any majors problems, nor any small problems with the car either. And, regarding the E46, BMW knew about this problem and extended the warranty on 2001 and 2002 M3's. That's taking care of your customers. So looking around me, German cars are holding up pretty well.

The only problem I've seen with German cars (and my family owns dozens of Mercedes', BMW's, and a few Porsche's) is that my cousin's 997 Carrera S blew an engine. And them an from Porsche said that in 27 years, he has not seen a problem like this. They gave him an engine for free, because it was under warranty.

So, I don't see what you are thinking. A GT3? You know what you better for the track? A 2004 Ferrari Formula 1 car. Obviously there are BETTER options, but I just did a review - in Gran Turismo - comparing the E92 M3 to the Lexus IS F. Have your opinions, but you keep on bringing up other irrelvant points.

And if you want to compare to sound of the IS F to the M3 we should compare the looks. The IS F has two fake exhaust pipes, looks like a bloated fish, and please tell me what material that trim is.

Why is this in the GT5P forum? Just because the IS-F is in GT5P? This review is also very close to the Jeremy Clarkson's review of the car...

I reviewed both of these car in GT5P

And I don't know whether to take that positively or negatively.

 

[The Outlaw]

timattack:

I don't know what you are talking about. My dad has a 1991 Mercedes 300E with over 200,000 miles and still has almost all original parts. He only changes the oil and adds gas. Additionally, my friend has a 1994 E34 M5 with over 100,000 and the only problem he has had is that his plastic water pump broke so he put in a metal one. My brother has a E36 M3 with over 100,000 miles and has not have any majors problems, nor any small problems with the car either. And, regarding the E46, BMW knew about this problem and extended the warranty on 2001 and 2002 M3's. That's taking care of your customers. So looking around me, German cars are holding up pretty well.

Of course my assessment doesn't mean that every German car is going to blow up or be unreliable at a point in time earlier than expected, because fact is there are many that are rock solid well past 200k miles. I was only pointing to the fact that Japanese cars on the whole are dramatically more reliable than their German rivals. For example, the V8 found in a 98 Lexus GS400 is WAY more reliable than the M62 found in a 98 BMW 540i. A Lexus LS has always been way more reliable than any of the past 7 series. If you say otherwise, you're simply being blatantly biased or are simply unenlightened to such facts.

You were the one who brought up how well built the German cars are in terms of the engine and transmission, so I simply countered your delusional thinking with a bit of truth and experience. Look at consumer reports if you don't believe me. I believe Mercedes has had the worst reliability of any manufacturer in recent years...is that not saying something? BMW has also had poor reliability on a lot of their recent cars including serious engine issues with the E39 M5's and 540's, early S54 powered cars, early E65 7 series electrical issues that were quite serious, M5/M6, and also turbo problems with the new 3.0 liter TT engine found in the 135 and 335's. I'm sure there are others that I forgot to mention. I'm simply pointing out examples that contradict your statements that German manufacturers make a better built more reliable car and engine.

Here's a quick article from forbes that has a list of 14 of the most unreliable luxury cars. Funny thing is, you see NO Japanese cars on the list, and a good 2/3's of the cars listed are German That proves your point quite well doesn't it?

http://www.forbes.com/2005/07/01/cx_dl_0705featslide_15.html?thisSpeed=6000

http://favourauto.com/unreliable


The only problem I've seen with German cars (and my family owns dozens of Mercedes', BMW's, and a few Porsche's) is that my cousin's 997 Carrera S blew an engine. And them an from Porsche said that in 27 years, he has not seen a problem like this. They gave him an engine for free, because it was under warranty.

Porsches are some of the most solid and reliable sports cars built today. Their warranty and dealership service is exceptional as well 👍

So, I don't see what you are thinking. A GT3? You know what you better for the track? A 2004 Ferrari Formula 1 car. Obviously there are BETTER options, but I just did a review - in Gran Turismo - comparing the E92 M3 to the Lexus IS F. Have your opinions, but you keep on bringing up other irrelvant points.

Irrelevant points? I think they're more like points that you're unwilling to accept. You're the one who posted a clip of E92 M3 with exhaust, trying to make an argument over what car sounds better. You're the one who keeps going back to the M3 being the superior track car to the IS-F, which is true. Fact is, most people don't buy these cars because they think they're excellent track cars though...so I don't know why you get off so much on saying the M3 is so superior to the IS-F in terms of performance from you video game assesments. It's rather dull.

And if you want to compare to sound of the IS F to the M3 we should compare the looks. The IS F has two fake exhaust pipes, looks like a bloated fish, and please tell me what material that trim is.

That's your opinion. Good for you...just don't try and shove your views and preferences down everyone's throats and expect everyone to agree with you 👍



I reviewed both of these car in GT5P

And I don't know whether to take that positively or negatively.

...

 

[PaganiC12]

You don't have to agree with me, you don't have to read this, you don't have to reply.

I'm glad we had this little joust of words, but, I like to share my opinion and I like to think that I am right.

 

[The Outlaw]

You don't have to agree with me, you don't have to read this, you don't have to reply.

I'm glad we had this little joust of words, but, I like to share my opinion and I like to think that I am right.

I'll just quit responding in YOUR nazi style thread then, if that makes you happy

 

[mu22stang]

I reviewed both of these car in GT5P

And I don't know whether to take that positively or negatively.

I guess you can't wait to get your Driver's License then, huh? 👍 And it was neither a compliment, nor an insult. Just stating the obvious similarities in points made, coincidental or not.

 

[Wolfe]

Another thing with the Lexus is the fact that it is WAY more reliable than the M3 and C63, which are extremely expensive cars to repair once the warranty is up.

obvioustroll is obvious.

 

[PaganiC12]

I'll just quit responding in YOUR nazi style thread then, if that makes you happy

I knew you hated German cars but seriously? Nazi? Me? You are being the exact opposite of me, I said "German cars are great" and then you say "Oh no. This, this and this." You are just as biased towards Japanese cars as I am towards European ones. Force feed? You are the one that is praising Japanese cars like they are your best friend.

I guess you can't wait to get your Driver's License then, huh? 👍 And it was neither a compliment, nor an insult. Just stating the obvious similarities in points made, coincidental or not.

I've seen the Clarkson review, but I did not try to rewrite it on this forum.

And I have my license, thank you.

obvioustroll is obvious.

Thank you

Well I actually love the review.

Thank you

 

[The Outlaw]

obvioustroll is obvious.

Wow...take it easy there fanboy. Please explain how I'm trolling???

I knew you hated German cars but seriously? Nazi? Me? You are being the exact opposite of me, I said "German cars are great" and then you say "Oh no. This, this and this." You are just as biased towards Japanese cars as I am towards European ones.



I've seen the Clarkson review, but I did not try to rewrite it on this forum.

And I have my license, thank you.

Yes pal, your thread so far has been run in a Nazi like style because you come off as acting like your opinion is the holy grail, even though it is incorrect in some cases. Anything that goes against the grain of your toughts and views should be disregarded. Or like you said, the person who's in disagreement should just leave and cease responding. That's a bit over the top to me. I guess you just like to hear yourself talk while spreading your superior beliefs 💡

God, you guys are SUCH ignorant fanboys it's really quite hilarious! Yea I HATE German cars even though I own a 01 BMW 528i and think it's one of the best daily drivers out there for the money. I've also owned a 99 540i which I had problems with and a 02 S54 M-coupe that was rock solid. I'm not BIASED, I'm just speaking the TRUTH which you are unable to accept On the whole, the German cars Japanese rivals are much more reliable and that's a FACT...look at consumer reports. There's one thing the Japanese cars lack that the BMW's accel in and that's the soul and real driving excitment the BMW's give from their incredible chassis dynamics and engineering. Even with the low powered inline 6's like in my 528i it is great fun to take corners with...that's one of the reasons I love BMW's so much. Most Mercedes lack in this department as well. BTW, that's where the argument has gone unless you have already lost track. If you can't accept the facts then I will quit arguing with you. As my quote in my profiles say: "Never argue with an idiot. They will only drag you down to their level, and beat you by experience" Also, in a couple of years I plan to pick up either a E92 M3 or 997 GT3...both GERMAN cars...wow! I must really hate German cars you fanboys :rollseyes: I may also consider a GT-R if I enjoy the driving experience enough...too bad that's Japanese...what a sin!

Have a good day

 

[PaganiC12]

What is wrong with you?

All I said is that the IS F cannot beat the M3, at what the M3 does best.