The Le Mans General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter arvin charles
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It's in this thread.Now I'm curious, do you have a link to that place where the effects of the fin were discussed? I shoot precision rifles, I know a great deal about long range ballistics and the severe effects cross winds have on fast moving objects in only 1-3 seconds.
I find it puzzling that increasing the surface area of a fast moving object has no direct effect on its straight line path in cross winds.
I wonder if that vertical fin could've been implemented simply via allowing much larger/longer wing end plates, much like an airliners vertical stabilizer.
Way better! But like I said, beauty lies in function, if the car is fast its beautiful enough.
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
The Porsche does look better sans fin, but I'd personally rather they had them.
- 5,215
- Nicest part of hell
The Aston was also beautiful on the inside, that engine sound alone won the race. Also I totally forgot how clean that car looked compared to the LMPs nowadays. Not a single vortex generator on its front !
Alright alright, I'll use the dreaded search function.
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- cnd01
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I suppose you're not liking any of the new LMP2 and LMP3 Coupe's then eh? I guess it's not for everyone but, I think they've had to upgrade with the times. The old Group C cars that everyone loves, including myself, were really bloody dangerous. One of my past engineers told me that it was the era when Downforce was first getting played with. They could barely push the things for fear that the rear wing would lift the front of the car off the ground.
I've never understood the comparison to spaceships. They never looked like spaceships, and they probably never will. Well, aside from the Delta wing. Which arguably does look like a pea sized spaceship with it's newer coupe feature. If you have to compare the cars to spaceships, I'd say the old Group C cars look more like a spaceship than the current cars. Spaceships have a very smooth bold design, that is exactly what comes to mind with a spaceship. Not a small, lots of aero foiled, race car.
I also believe that it is a sponsorship gimmick. And the fins in F1 served a MUCH different purpose than that of the Le Mans fins. So, don't compare it to F1.
They were on F1 cars before any LMP had them. Don't know if that was rules or not. Just for kicks, here's the Porsche w/o fin:
Doesn't look bad but, it's not really my thing. Makes it look to close to a Daytona Prototype. Which is ungodly ugly. It's called a prototype for a reason. It's supposed to be using cutting edge technology. Not at all what a Daytona Prototype is.
Speaking of the Porsche, does anyone else think that it has an EXTREMELY long wheel base? From certain angles it just looks incredibly long.
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I think its an optical illusion because the car is really low and as black as the tires. I'm pretty sure if the tires where painted white the wheelbase would look noticably shorter.
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- cnd01
I'll just say this: the DP was horrid until 2012 when the gen 3 came out with the Vette DP and now the Ford DP in 2014. They came from this:
To this:
I can say that the LMP has taken a nose dive on the looks dept
However, trying to compare the LMP1-HY or whatever they call it now and DP is apples to rocks.
The DP was based on the principle of Prototype racing at GT cost which it was until Tudor.
LMP2 is basically the European equivalent of a DP minus the V8
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- HamiltonMP427
So the LMP1 cars are ugly because of the sharkfin..., cause outside of that they share a very similar (let's pretend Nissan doesn't exist in this Universe) to what has been the main idea of an LMP car or endurance sport car since Group C. The ride heights aren't that far off, the aero is still there and the different engine ideas too before you pick your hybrid system. It's all what made Sport car racing great, looks, sounds, performance but a shark fin somehow makes that different...
Okay. Also CND once again for like the 1000th time, DP cost =/=GT costs it was never that principle what it was, was the idea of having spec cars with cheap easy to manufacture V8s (a la NASCAR budget in nature) and run them in these endurance races, that were carried over from the defunct GTP stuff, but not as the sky rocket costs that manufactures were creating. In fact GT cars are quite expensive, unless you're trying to compare GT3 which is less expensive than GTE/GTLM. In fact as far as price goes, DP are as affordable as a Nascar Cup car.
Also plenty of LMP2 run V8s...do you just make up as you go.
Okay. Also CND once again for like the 1000th time, DP cost =/=GT costs it was never that principle what it was, was the idea of having spec cars with cheap easy to manufacture V8s (a la NASCAR budget in nature) and run them in these endurance races, that were carried over from the defunct GTP stuff, but not as the sky rocket costs that manufactures were creating. In fact GT cars are quite expensive, unless you're trying to compare GT3 which is less expensive than GTE/GTLM. In fact as far as price goes, DP are as affordable as a Nascar Cup car.
Also plenty of LMP2 run V8s...do you just make up as you go.
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
I have to say, that Corvette DP in that blue is a very attractive car.
CodeRedR51
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Yeah not bad. I don't find the DP cars all that attractive either most of the time.
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- cnd01
I have no idea how ride heights make cars look better unless you're talking low riders vs. the trucks I see in Alabama
I don't know many people who would say this
looks better than this:
What is meant by that is keeping costs down to roughly what a privateer GT class would be.
Hard to not make up opinions
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- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
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It's going to get much more expensive this/next year. Lamborghini's new Huracan with it's mixed Carbon/tube frame monocoque design is going to raise prices quite a bit.
@cnd01 Yes, the TS010 looks slightly better than the current TS040 but, I'd say that the TS020 may go down as one of the best looking Le Mans cars of all time. I'd say the 2005 R8, Porsche 911 GT1, Panoz LMP-1 Roadster S and Ford GT40 will go down as the best looking Le Mans cars though.
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
I showed an image of a Martini Porsche 917 to someone who is usually almost completely disinterested in cars earlier. Their immediate response was "Wow. That's beautiful."
Enough said.
Enough said.
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- mustafur
They share the same width, length and Fins, but apart from that there is still noticable changes from one and other.
I mean there's not much difference between these 3. The Toyota is slightly different
Now there's Nissan which is the only one that's not a modified version of the same thing
All Group C cars where basically the same in this regard but with less tech and less knowledge on Aero they where all experimenting different things, Mechanically was the most instresting thing about them IMO, but even that is now Surpassed by how technical the current cars are Mechanically.
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- cnd01
Yea aesthetically. There are obvious differences in powertrain within the limits of the rules. If you want to go really broad, you could argue that all are modified versions of the same thing with that being all are hybrid because of the rules, but that's being too much of a lawyer. We are both engineers after all
Oh no doubts there are plenty of great looking cars. I liked the TS020 a lot too. At the 50th anniversary of the Rolex 24, I got pictures of about 40 or so of the first 49 winners. There were some absolutely awesome cars there and that's just the Daytona 24. One of my favorites was the Oreca run Viper which has not been cleaned or anything since the race. Grass and everything still on it. I like the Mustang Probe personally of the GTP/Group C cars. Can't say anything looks better than the Jagermeister 962 though
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- Sk8er913
The Mercedes CLK (NOT CLR!!!) looked great. I think the Oak Racing P2 from '14 looked nice too. And that number #49 P2 car from '12.
We're still doing that. None of the 4 manufacturer LMP1 teams agree on what the best way the implement the electrical system is. And last year, as we all well remember. "Where did the Toyota go? The board says its not in first anymore."
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The CLR was one of the best looking racing cars ever made. Sadly, the same could not be said of its aerodynamics.
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- ProjectWHaT
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- Sk8er913
I still prefer the CLK.
... how do I made spoiler tags?
and yes GT1 cars were pretty got they all had a serious flaw... When I searched CLR GT1... These were the results. I wasn't going to post it. but I cant resist it. XD
@ProjectWHaT I posted the same picture but I removed it. lol the Porsche was "beautiful in action" too.
... how do I made spoiler tags?
and yes GT1 cars were pretty got they all had a serious flaw...
When I searched CLR GT1... These were the results. I wasn't going to post it. but I cant resist it. XD
@ProjectWHaT I posted the same picture but I removed it.
lol the Porsche was "beautiful in action" too.
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- mustafur
The CLK and 911 show why the GT1 cars are soo good looking, the level of sleekness is unmatched, the CLR kind of ruined the CLK with its massive Wheel Arches.
Plus Road Relevency was at it's peak when they where actually based on Road cars (allthough that started to get a little fuzzy by 1998).
Plus Road Relevency was at it's peak when they where actually based on Road cars (allthough that started to get a little fuzzy by 1998).
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The Dauer 962 Le Mans, a slightly modified 962C entered by Porsche at Le Mans in '94 as the GT1 version of Dauer's 962 based road supercar. Won Le Mans outright with another losing second place in an absurdly close finish with Irvine's Toyota.
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The Fuzzy car in Question was the Toyota GT-One, where its Boot/Trunk(Which had to exist under the regulations)was it's Fuel tank and that there is no known Registered Road cars, this by comparison wasn't fuzzy in the slightest.How come nobody mentioned the Mclaren while we were on the topic of GT1 cars... O.o Yeah that one Porsche was very fuzzy. lol. Didn't they enter a group C car once into GT1?(That was 1994-1996) according to the pictures thumbnail.
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