The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

[kembro]

Anyone know the spec difference between the LMP2 Nissan and LMP3 Ginetta/Nissan. HP and weight particularly. Been looking and found references to LMP3 producing 500hp and the LMP2 having 450+ and doesn't seem right.

 

[CodeRedR51]

What? Why get involved in the discussion to begin with?

Because I can?

Did you just want me, or the other critics of the car, to submit to your opinions?

Nope, was just expecting common sense.

 

[RACECAR]

They both entered in the same category that are governed by basically the same regulations. Do you have a better comparison in mind?

The scenarios however in which they entered differ greatly (and thus, aren't comparable). Toyota was originally not focused on 2012 but had to speed up with Peugeot gone so they could not take their time and did so with again the same configuration. Nissan on the other hand are on their development year as they stated from the beginning and as such, aren't as nearly on a rush like Toyota was (in edition trying to get that hybrid unit to work AND had to redesign a structure after a flaw found at Sebring). they've skipped the first two rounds to make sure everything is in working order.

You make these posts which suggest their program is (or will be) a massive failure because they aren't keeping up with the other 3 right now even when they've stated They are aiming to compete for a win in 2016, not 2015.

 

[redsoxboy80]

Nope, was just expecting common sense.

Because cars commonly gain 20 seconds in a year or two. Common sense bro. I'll say nice things about the slow nissan from now on.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Because cars commonly gain 20 seconds in a year or two.

Obviously they are not running at full power (pretty much half) or with all four wheels powered under acceleration like they had planned. That could be 20 seconds right there. They have the speed down the straights.

I personally see this program as one of those that changes history and re-writes rules. They're not to that point yet, but when they get this thing running the way it's supposed to...........look out.

 

[sk8er913]

Because cars commonly gain 20 seconds in a year or two. Common sense bro. I'll say nice things about the slow nissan from now on.

They werent running full pace, but I don't know why. On most of there laps they were like 60km slower or more in the speed trap...

 

[Josa]

Anyone know the spec difference between the LMP2 Nissan and LMP3 Ginetta/Nissan. HP and weight particularly. Been looking and found references to LMP3 producing 500hp and the LMP2 having 450+ and doesn't seem right.

http://europeanlemansseries.com/en/elms/les-différentes-catégories/4
LMP2 = 450+ hp
LMP3 = 420 hp
Both 900kg

 

[sk8er913]

http://europeanlemansseries.com/en/elms/les-différentes-catégories/4
LMP2 = 450+ hp
LMP3 = 420 hp
Both 900kg

Sounds like they could be competitive with each other. Lol.

 

[danardif1]

Because cars commonly gain 20 seconds in a year or two. Common sense bro. I'll say nice things about the slow nissan from now on.

So...

1. Do you honestly think the Nissan was running at it's ultimate pace yesterday?

2. At an early stage like this where the team are nowhere near reaching the tiny incremental gains that the more developed cars are at, big chunks of time can and will be found. Look at McLaren this season at Melbourne and then at Monaco as an example... heck, even look at the gains the other P1 teams made between last season and this because they hadn't started to reach the more marginal gains on the powertrain side.

 

[mustafur]

Because cars commonly gain 20 seconds in a year or two. Common sense bro I'll say nice things about the slow nissan from now on.

Im not sayin, but I'm jus sayin.

 

[IforceV8]

Anyone know the spec difference between the LMP2 Nissan and LMP3 Ginetta/Nissan. HP and weight particularly. Been looking and found references to LMP3 producing 500hp and the LMP2 having 450+ and doesn't seem right.

LMP3 uses steel brakes vs carbon on the P2 and the wheels are narrower on the LMP3.

 

[sk8er913]

LMP3 uses steel brakes vs carbon on the P2 and the wheels are narrower on the LMP3.

Those are very minor changes. I dont see why it deserves its own class.

 

[kembro]

Cost seems to be the main difference. $200000 Vs $400000 approx LMP3 may be more of a one make prototype class to build up driver skills on a budget.

 

[danardif1]

Those are very minor changes. I dont see why it deserves its own class.

Because LMP3 is designed as a regional stepping stone to LMP2, which outside the WEC is the lead prototype class in Europe and America.

 

[catamount39]

Aren't there multiple manufacturers lining up for LMP3? I know that Ginetta and Ligier are two of them. And I think Caterham is another.

 

[IforceV8]

Aren't there multiple manufacturers lining up for LMP3? I know that Ginetta and Ligier are two of them. And I think Caterham is another.

And Riley.

 

[sk8er913]

Cost seems to be the main difference. $200000 Vs $400000 approx LMP3 may be more of a one make prototype class to build up driver skills on a budget.

I heard LMP2 were 750,000

 

[kembro]

Yep sorry, LMP2 450000 pounds 80000 pounds for engines. 200000 pounds for LMP3 good value for cashed up racers.

 

[sk8er913]

Yep sorry, LMP2 450000 pounds 80000 pounds for engines. 200000 pounds for LMP3 good value for cashed up racers.

Pounds... I was thinking in USD... time for currency converter! lol

That actually made it worse... in Austrailian dollars...

But in USD to British pounds it turned my 750k into 493k.

 

[Tired Tyres]

LMP2 is cost capped somewhere between 370,000 Euro and 450,000 Euro with engine capped at 80,350 Euro.

http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/race/category_2_2_1742.html

 

[SK8RBOI]

I think he ment the cost of running the cars not the cost of the cars. You have staff to pay and the ELMS/WEC fee. Not to mention the fuel and tires for the car as well as the cost of moving your car from track to track.

 

[catamount39]

What if...what if LMP3 became the new LMP2?

 

[redsoxboy80]

The scenarios however in which they entered differ greatly (and thus, aren't comparable). Toyota was originally not focused on 2012 but had to speed up with Peugeot gone so they could not take their time and did so with again the same configuration. Nissan on the other hand are on their development year as they stated from the beginning and as such, aren't as nearly on a rush like Toyota was (in edition trying to get that hybrid unit to work AND had to redesign a structure after a flaw found at Sebring). they've skipped the first two rounds to make sure everything is in working order.

You make these posts which suggest their program is (or will be) a massive failure because they aren't keeping up with the other 3 right now even when they've stated They are aiming to compete for a win in 2016, not 2015.

Yes. There are not EXACTLY the same circumstances. But what better comparison exists? Same question I asked before........

And when was the last time an LMP car debuted this slow out of the box?

So...

1. Do you honestly think the Nissan was running at it's ultimate pace yesterday?

2. At an early stage like this where the team are nowhere near reaching the tiny incremental gains that the more developed cars are at, big chunks of time can and will be found. Look at McLaren this season at Melbourne and then at Monaco as an example... heck, even look at the gains the other P1 teams made between last season and this because they hadn't started to reach the more marginal gains on the powertrain side.

Do you honestly think Audi, Porsche and Toyota were running at full power too? I'm sure Nissan will find more time, but so will everyone else.

And we're not talking incremental gains making them competitive. This is 20+ seconds! And at a track the car is supposed to be strongest at.......

It's not like this project was just thrown together at the last minute. They are basically transitioning to the development phase right now. Making that transition with a car this slow and so far unreliable suggests the concept is fundamentally flawed. How anyone can possibly think otherwise is based on nothing reasonable.........

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes. There are not EXACTLY the same circumstances. But what better comparison exists? Same question I asked before........

And when was the last time an LMP car debuted this slow out of the box?

AMR-One that was easy.

 

[Earth]

And when was the last time an LMP car debuted this slow out of the box?

Probably the Aston Martin AMR-One. We all know how that turned out

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Just bought a load of stickers for the car will upload a pic once they've arrived and we've put them on.

 

[catamount39]

Probably the Aston Martin AMR-One. We all know how that turned out

Yup...spending most of it's time in this condition.

Worst...Aston Martin...EVER.

 

[R0ssingt0n]

Yup...spending most of it's time in this condition.

Worst...Aston Martin...EVER.

Yeah I love Aston Martin but that thing sucked so bad hahaha

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yeah I love Aston Martin but that thing sucked so bad hahaha

Sad considering what its predecessor did.

 

[catamount39]

Sad considering what its predecessor did.

The predecessor quickly replaced that piece of scrap though.

#EpicComeback
#V12foreva ;_;7