The new Honda Civic Type-R - it's not cracked up to what it should be

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Article from Autocar.

Autocar
For High-revving VTEC engine, cheaper than main rivals, fine seats and driving position
Against Not that fast, excessive body roll, short on handling finesse, poor rear visibility



1. Background
The hot hatch has always exemplified the variety of nations. The traditional French recipe is to build them thin and light, with a devil-may-care attitude to passive rear-wheel steer. The German way is to build them solid, the Italian way to provide a scene-stealing engine and performance.

The Japanese, as you might expect, major on technology, and the previous Honda Civic Type R summed this up nicely. The widely revered Civic Type R brand was born from a potent mix of circuit, street and virtual racing, a genre-defining 197bhp engine using Honda’s VTEC variable valve timing system, and the unstinting use of sophisticated independent suspension like every Civic before it. If it didn’t work around Suzuka or Sugo, you got the impression it didn’t deserve to be on the car. The prize for Honda was 15 per cent of overall Civic sales wearing the red Type R badge.

Unfortunately for Honda, the current hot hatch party has been raging for a while now, and is stuffed with contenders from virtually every other major player. They think nothing of the old Civic’s headline-grabbing power output – in fact, it’s seen as a minimum in this class now – and their overall standard reflects just how seriously manufacturers are taking this class again.

In the face of this, Honda has found just one extra horse under the bonnet, and traded independent rear suspension for a less sophisticated torsion beam in the name of packaging and no doubt cost. Not the most promising of starts, then.

Of course, the truth isn’t quite so straightforward, and it’s worth remembering that, for all our fond memories, the old Civic was flawed in the areas of steering and refinement. Honda’s brief with the new Type R was to retain the raw thrills of old, while making the car easier to live with. Research had shown that the uncompromising nature of the old car was putting off potential customers.

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2. Design
The overall Type R experience is still centred on a blaze of revs and lightning-fast gearchanges. That’s the reason, according to Honda, why there’s been little change in the drivetrain spec of the Type R.

We’re told big turbocharged power outputs ruffle the Zen-like pursuit of handling purity, and familiarity with the likes of the Astra VXR and Mazda 3 MPS suggests there’s more than a little truth in that. So what Honda has done is broaden the effectiveness of the motor, with a wider band of VTEC thrills (now stretching from 5400 to over 8000rpm) and a less pronounced step during the changeover of the cam profiles.

This has been achieved by adjusting the ECU software, giving the high-speed cams a more aggressive profile and smoothing the cylinder head intake ports. The air intake manifold now has an airflow resonator to optimise the charge for torque, there’s an electronic throttle and a trick lightweight flywheel, and a new balancer unit helps ease the vibrations inherent in a four-cylinder motor.

An impressive-sounding 90 per cent of peak torque is available at just 2500rpm, but then that peak is only 142lb ft at a sky-high 5600rpm. In comparison, a Focus ST cranks out a mighty 236lb ft from down in its boots.

Drive is again fed through a close-ratio six-speed ’box, with the final drive lowered to combat the 134kg increase in kerbweight, much as Renault did with the Clio 197. For the Type R’s bodyshell, Honda has strengthened the cross member across the floor and the one at the bottom of the engine bay, and reinforced the area around the front suspension turrets. The car sits 15mm lower on its suspension than a regular Civic, with a 20mm wider track. The springs and dampers have been tuned, too.

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3. On The Road
There’s real joy in conducting a naturally aspirated engine of this quality. Where other performance engines strain and grit their teeth during the struggle to provide maximum performance, the i-VTEC motor feels happiest when you’re driving the trousers off it. Below the cam changeover it sounds as thin as ever, but open it up and it will sing all day long in the thick of its broad power band.

The problem for Honda is the increasing weight of cars in this segment; the Type R weighs 1338kg on our scales. Weight needs torque to get it moving – a commodity that’s in short supply in the Civic – and although there’s a noticeably better spread of pulling power at lower revs than in the previous Type R, it’s hardly a fireball.

Our 0-60mph time of 7.4sec should be viewed in the context of the wet track on which it was recorded, but the 6.6sec time quoted by Honda belies the feel of the car. Unless you’re right at the top of the rev range, it never seems that quick.

Take 50-70mph in fourth gear for example. In a Focus ST you’ll dispatch it in 4.0sec. In the Honda it takes 5.3sec, so you’ll need to shift to third in search of a 3.7sec time to stay with the Ford.

In some ways, Honda has been its own worst enemy in trying to smooth the engine’s power delivery. Now that the exaggerated sensation of the 2.0-litre four coming on cam has been diminished, the excitement of accessing the promised land felt in the old car is less.

The gearchange, meanwhile, is now better than ever, with a fabulous flick of the wrist connecting each ratio.

With 300mm ventilated discs on the front wheels, and 260mm solid discs at the rear, you’d expect the Type R to stop convincingly, and it does. Better still, there’s a well-judged feel to the pedal.

You don’t have to drive the Type R far to realise that the biggest failing of the old car – its artificial and glutinous power steering – has been dramatically improved, too. It is now sensibly weighted and engagingly sporty, if short on genuine feel.

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4. Living
This is a more habitable Type R, as Honda promised, with notable compliance in the way it rides at low speeds. You still feel the bumps and holes in the road surface, but there’s enough elasticity that they rarely thump too harshly into the cabin. Although this ability continues as the speeds rise, there’s quite a lot of body movement that goes unchecked, as if the springs and dampers aren’t quite working in tune.

There’s no escaping the fact that the Civic lacks the chassis sophistication you find in rivals like the Focus ST and Golf GTi, which is another way of saying what we’ve feared all along: the switch to a torsion beam rear end has had a detrimental effect.

You turn the wheel and the car follows your chosen path resolutely and with plenty of outright grip, but the sensation is of the back obediently following the front rather than working to induce some mild oversteer to help turn the car in. On a circuit, you can use the brakes on turn-in to adjust the attitude of the car, but on the public road this is less of an option, so the car doesn’t feel as alive to the driver as some rivals.

You'll either love or hate the exterior design, but we think it looks suitably sporting. In the cabin, the Type R additions are well judged. The sports seats are superb, the steering wheel strikes the right tone, and there are drilled alloy pedals and a metal-finish ‘R’ gear knob.

Our concerns lie with attributes inherited from the standard Civic. Visibility is poor, with obstructive A-pillars and limited over-the-shoulder sight lines, while the view aft is severely restricted by the wing that bisects the rear window.

The Type R is one of the cheaper hot hatches, but it’s not the bargain its sub-£17k predecessor was. The GT model tested here, with fog lights, curtain airbags, auto lights and climate control, is £18,600 (a Focus ST2 is £18,795). At least the Type R should continue to have strong residuals, and it should prove far less thirsty than the Focus.

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5. Verdict
verdict_7_10.gif

On the right road, when you’re in the mood, there’s much to like about the latest Civic Type R. Once you’re rowing through the gears and listening to that remarkable engine, you’d forgive it a lot. But this is still a disappointing car overall, with a chassis that is exposed by the retrograde rear suspension. Like the manic Astra VXR, the Type R will have its fans, but we aren’t among them.





Data: (most data is taken from their latest magazine, which isn't listed on their website)



How much?

* Price when new: £16,975
* Price as tested: £20,000


How fast?

* 0-30mph: 2.9s
* 0-60mph: 7.4s
* 0-100mph: 18.4s
* 30-50mph in 3rd/4th: 3.8/5.0s
* 40-60mph in 4th/5th: 5.2/6.7s
* 50-70mph in 5th: 7.1s
* Noise at 70mph: 70dbA


How thirsty?

* Test average: 26.1mpg
* Test best/worst: 29.4/11.8mpg


Government figures

* Combined/urban: 42.8 / 33.6 mpg
* CO2 emissions: 156 g/km


How big?

* Length: 4250 mm
* Width: 1765 mm
* Height: 1460 mm
* Wheelbase: 2685 mm
* Weight : 1284 kg
* Fuel tank: 50.0 litres


Engine

* Layout: 4cyl in line, 1998cc
* Max power: 198 bhp at 7800rpm
* Max torque: 142 lb ft at 5600rpm
* Specific: 99bhp per litre
* Power to weight: 156bhp per tonne
* Installation: Front, transverse
* Bore/stoke: 86.0/86.0mm
* Compression ratio: 11.0:1
* Valve gear: 4 per cyl, dohc
* Ignition and fuel: Unleaded


Gearbox

* Type: 6-speed Manual
* 1st: 37mph 8300rpm
* 2nd: 57mph 8300rpm
* 3rd: 81mph 8300rpm
* 4th: 107mph 8300rpm
* 5th: 133mph 8300rpm
* 6th: 140mph 7000rpm
* Final drive: 3.583


Suspension

* Front: MacPherson strut, anti-roll bar, coil springs
* Rear: Torsion beam axle configuration. High response mono tube dampers, with independent coil springs. Anti roll bar


Steering

* Type: Rack and pinion
* Lock to lock: 2.42


Brakes

* Front: ventilated
* Rear: solid disks


Wheel & tyres

* Made of: Alloy
* Tyres front: 225/40 ZR18
* Tyres rear: 225/40 ZR18
 
It's heavier than a bloody NSX-R if it realy weighs 1338kg and it's not much lighter than a normal nsx.

Ok thats it there are no more light weight hot hatches anymore, well in europe.
 
It's heavier than a bloody NSX-R if it realy weighs 1338kg and it's not much lighter than a normal nsx.

Ok thats it there are no more light weight hot hatches anymore, well in europe.

There are actually, and more on the way.
 
It looks pathetic compared to the concept 👎

It'll still sell like gold dust no matter, though perhaps the ST will steal more of it's sales now.
 
:lol: BWAHAHAAHAHAHA! it's finally starting to show it's age, like Golf.. old, fat man with raybans, trying to look cool but failing miserably..:D
 
That thing is not a Type-R. In fact I don't think there has been a true Civic Type-R since the EK version of the car. :sly:

To me the Type-R is supposed to be a purpose built sports car/race car like the Porsche 911 GT3 RS. The cars they have been producing since the EK have been complete garbage and don't deserve to wear the badge. I mean who needs SAT NAV in a purpose built sports car, not me! :crazy:

I mean it is practically the same thing as the US Si. In fact since we have the better rear suspension so ours might even be better. In my mentality if there is a pound that can be shed from the car it is worth it, but clearly Honda forgot about what the R means! :grumpy: (at least with the civic, I love the NSX-R, undecided about DC5, wish it didn't have struts)

Give me 25 extra horsepower, 200kg lighter, 4 corner double wishbone suspension, and better styling and then I'll call it a Type-R 👍
 
There are actually, and more on the way.

Proof please and saying 'OH WELL I HEARD A MAN AT AUDI TOLD ME' isn't proof sorry.

Also I don't think there is a single hot hatch that weighs under 1200kg to buy as new.
 
for once: America gets the good one.
Which, to gloat like the horrible person I am, I called. Twice. And it seems it was even for the exactly correct reason, too.
Race Idiot
Also I don't think there is a single hot hatch that weighs under 1200kg to buy as new.
There is only I can think of, and that is the Fiat Panda 100.
There is another one, but it doesn't count. At all.
 
I have always liked the looks of that car. To come over here, a few more horses and a bit less weight would be ideal. I could see the R coming over as the base line model, somehow. Sounds like Honda has a bit of work on their hands.
 
for once: America gets the good one.

I was going to say the same thing. Odd how that works. The Si certainly should get some more credit than it has gotten thus far. Funny, as I seem to recall someone saying that we were getting the "lesser" Civic in America at one point...

Meh, oh well. There is always that import business that seems to be growing in the UK. I'm sure there are more than enough companies who would love to sell you a new Si.

...But, I still prefer the GTI or the Cobalt SS. Thats just me...
 
I was going to say the same thing. Odd how that works. The Si certainly should get some more credit than it has gotten thus far. Funny, as I seem to recall someone saying that we were getting the "lesser" Civic in America at one point...

Meh, oh well. There is always that import business that seems to be growing in the UK. I'm sure there are more than enough companies who would love to sell you a new Si.

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone importing a us spec honda to the uk anyway mainly because of the LHD. Then you'd have all the fun of getting parts for it, nope it's not gonna happen. You'd be better off importing a used low mileage CTR from japan realy, they came with the close ratio 6 speed and lsd which the old eu spec CTR didn't get.

I'm still kinda shocked that it weighs so much though, I thought the idea of the type-r was to be light and barebones. I swear reading some gubbins months ago about how they wanted to make it as light as possible but damn 1338kg, thats tubbyness that even VW would be proud of.

Also it's pretty suprising that they didn't add independent rear suspension just for the type r, but then again there have been allot of fun hothatches that have torsion beam suspension. The 205 GTi comes to mind.

Also I forgot about the new panda 100hp or whatever it's called, evo seemed to realy like it. Also I forgot about the swift sport! Both cars are a bit ugly though.

Also the type r concept was ricy as hell, I saw it at the motorshow and it looked like it fell out of max power. Especially with those gigantic wheels on it.
 
Yeah, Swift Sport here too.

I must say I'm disappointed by this, I hope Spoon can sort it out.
 
There was suppose to be another model of Civic Type-R (im sure it was the Type-R GT) coming out - and what about all the rumours of the type-rr???

So before everyone starts getting on honda's back - the Civic Type-R will not be the highest or 'best' model of the Civic.

I have not liked any performance Civic after the EK series, and i still dont like this one :(

Edit: - Here's a link to the Civic Type-R GT:

http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/car_news_article.aspx?cp-documentid=919386&wa=wsignin1.0

It doesnt seem much different from the regular one so maybe we should get onto Honda's back - what is going on???
 
Proof please and saying 'OH WELL I HEARD A MAN AT AUDI TOLD ME' isn't proof sorry.

Also I don't think there is a single hot hatch that weighs under 1200kg to buy as new.

Awww as usual someone gets upset and then mentions audi in some way or another. There are several cars hot hatches under 1300kg (as that was the figure you originally complained about, even though there are plently still around the 1200kg mark on sale mind you ;)) with 180hp or above on sale today, hence there still being true hot hatches on sale.

Go look it up yourself, im not doing the leg work :)



Edit.

Car magazine says the new Type-R is hothatch king

Civic-Type-R.jpg
 
This should be an Si or perhaps an SiR. Type-Rs' are supposed to be lightweight stripped down models. This is NOT a Type-R.
 
Nice work Poverty.
Love seeing evidence to the contrary in situations like this one.

I mentioned the "stigmas of Torsion Beams" and meant it in a prejudicial kind of way. Simple doesn't mean bad and complex doesn't mean good.

I'm willing to bet Car magazine drove and tested the new CTR only to find out that the car felt good despite the weight and the suspension handled well despite the intial specific label for the suspension technology.

Even when I heard the Torsion Beam was coming to the Civic initially I was hesitant to assume Honda would use anything on their baby other than what works.

Remember, simple stuff can be good too. 👍

Oh, and I think that all amounts to an insult for the previous magazine review.
Are these two Euro publications? And in any case, which one do you guys read more commonly?
Or is it a "motor trend vs car and driver" sort of thing?
If that's the case then forget it, they've both got "issues" (no pun intended).
 
Well ok, cars are getting heavier, you know, since there are many new regulations out there (compared to the 90's) and since the demand for some luxury ( air conditioning etc ) is also great I can accpet a little more weight. But then you have to adjust the performace.

So why not using the engine from the S2000 ?
That's my only real complaint, the looks, oh well, I like the interior, the exterior not so much, but that is personal choice...
 
Awww as usual someone gets upset and then mentions audi in some way or another. There are several cars hot hatches under 1300kg (as that was the figure you originally complained about, even though there are plently still around the 1200kg mark on sale mind you ;)) with 180hp or above on sale today, hence there still being true hot hatches on sale.

Go look it up yourself, im not doing the leg work :)



Edit.

Car magazine says the new Type-R is hothatch king

Civic-Type-R.jpg

Why should I look up something that you stated in the first place? Also thanks for the magazine scan that I can barely read.
 
Awww as usual someone gets upset and then mentions audi in some way or another. There are several cars hot hatches under 1300kg (as that was the figure you originally complained about, even though there are plently still around the 1200kg mark on sale mind you ;)) with 180hp or above on sale today, hence there still being true hot hatches on sale.

Go look it up yourself, im not doing the leg work :)
Poverty a very good reason exists as to why people will not accept your statements at face value and ask for proof. Quite simply you have posted too much incorrect, poorly researched, and at times plain incorrect information for many people here to take your word for much.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but its the truth. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf.....


Take this case for example I have just a had a very quick look and finding three hot hatches under 1300kgs with 180bhp+ is a challenge, finding three under 1200kgs! Well you say there are plenty around, so give me three new hot hatches that can be bought in a UK showroom right now, with 180+ bhp and a weight of 1,200kgs or under. And don't repeat you nonsense about us doing the leg work, its a simple lack of descent research that gets you into these situations in the first place.







Nice work Poverty.
Love seeing evidence to the contrary in situations like this one.

I mentioned the "stigmas of Torsion Beams" and meant it in a prejudicial kind of way. Simple doesn't mean bad and complex doesn't mean good.

I'm willing to bet Car magazine drove and tested the new CTR only to find out that the car felt good despite the weight and the suspension handled well despite the intial specific label for the suspension technology.

Even when I heard the Torsion Beam was coming to the Civic initially I was hesitant to assume Honda would use anything on their baby other than what works.

Remember, simple stuff can be good too. 👍

Oh, and I think that all amounts to an insult for the previous magazine review.
Are these two Euro publications? And in any case, which one do you guys read more commonly?
Or is it a "motor trend vs car and driver" sort of thing?
If that's the case then forget it, they've both got "issues" (no pun intended).


Autocar and Car are both UK publications and for me Kent I would always take Autocar's review over Car's any day of the week. Particularly now, as Car has basically morphed into a car focused lad's mag.

One of the reasons why I would be more trusting in the Autocar test drive is that for full tests of this nature they use a very wide range of drivers, which does help to remove bias.

Don't get me wrong Autocar liked a lot about the car, and certainly some issues such as the rear torsion bar would not be as much of an issue had the previous generation Civics not had fully independent rears. To be honest I can see what they are saying here, the last generation CTR was a well placed car on release here in Europe. It was dirt cheap, fast and fun. Now the market place has moved on a lot since then and Honda have not quite managed to keep up with things. The new CTR is expensive (the Focus ST is £500 cheaper), has put on weight (but not power in any significant way) and lost one of is key strengths, an easily exploitable and controllable rear.

What the do love about the new CTR is both the engine and particularly the gearbox, its a good car, simply not as good as it should be for its price in the market place.


Still for me the definitive review will be when Evo gets hold of one, now that will be worth reading.

Regards

Scaff
 
Wasn't really aware of the issues from the first part of your post... And for the part addressing me...

Thanks, glad to hear it from you especially. 👍
I suppose you've done a great job of explaining the overall disappointment. I think that's what it is too, not that it is a bad car, just that it's not as great as it could or should be.

None the less, I would want to test one before assuming the torsion beam ruins the car (not that anyone said that so blatantly).

Also, remember that I have a bias in that- I've been riding on a torsion beam doing spirited driving for the last 11 months! :sly:
 
Poverty a very good reason exists as to why people will not accept your statements at face value and ask for proof. Quite simply you have posted too much incorrect, poorly researched, and at times plain incorrect information for many people here to take your word for much.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but its the truth. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf.....


Take this case for example I have just a had a very quick look and finding three hot hatches under 1300kgs with 180bhp+ is a challenge, finding three under 1200kgs! Well you say there are plenty around, so give me three new hot hatches that can be bought in a UK showroom right now, with 180+ bhp and a weight of 1,200kgs or under. And don't repeat you nonsense about us doing the leg work, its a simple lack of descent research that gets you into these situations in the first place.










Autocar and Car are both UK publications and for me Kent I would always take Autocar's review over Car's any day of the week. Particularly now, as Car has basically morphed into a car focused lad's mag.

One of the reasons why I would be more trusting in the Autocar test drive is that for full tests of this nature they use a very wide range of drivers, which does help to remove bias.

Don't get me wrong Autocar liked a lot about the car, and certainly some issues such as the rear torsion bar would not be as much of an issue had the previous generation Civics not had fully independent rears. To be honest I can see what they are saying here, the last generation CTR was a well placed car on release here in Europe. It was dirt cheap, fast and fun. Now the market place has moved on a lot since then and Honda have not quite managed to keep up with things. The new CTR is expensive (the Focus ST is £500 cheaper), has put on weight (but not power in any significant way) and lost one of is key strengths, an easily exploitable and controllable rear.

What the do love about the new CTR is both the engine and particularly the gearbox, its a good car, simply not as good as it should be for its price in the market place.


Still for me the definitive review will be when Evo gets hold of one, now that will be worth reading.

Regards

Scaff



I dont post incorrect info, you guys are just too whimsical over everything. I dont have these credability issues on other forums, and whats even more amusing in fact is that I often get my info from other forums, and no one challenges the original poster on that site. I cant be expected to find every single blicking article I have read as soon as someone requested.

Im not doing the research he can do it himself. He said there are NO true hothatches anymore and well quite frankly thats not true. Im not spending my friday getting the figures. Go to whatcar.com all he needs is there.
 
I dont post incorrect info, you guys are just too whimsical over everything. I dont have these credability issues on other forums, and whats even more amusing in fact is that I often get my info from other forums, and no one challenges the original poster on that site.

This should tell you all you need to know.

You get your information from unchallenged articles on the internet.


Im not doing the research he can do it himself. He said there are NO true hothatches anymore and well quite frankly thats not true. Im not spending my friday getting the figures. Go to whatcar.com all he needs is there.

Here's the deal.

You said "x exists". He said "x doesn't exist". The onus of proof is on you, because proving non-existence is nearly impossible but proving existence is easy.

You say there's several 180hp, sub-1300kg (and plenty of sub-1200kg) hatchbacks. This is your claim. You must now prove this.
 
I dont post incorrect info, you guys are just too whimsical over everything. I dont have these credability issues on other forums, and whats even more amusing in fact is that I often get my info from other forums, and no one challenges the original poster on that site. I cant be expected to find every single blicking article I have read as soon as someone requested.

Im not doing the research he can do it himself. He said there are NO true hothatches anymore and well quite frankly thats not true. Im not spending my friday getting the figures. Go to whatcar.com all he needs is there.

Backing up your own statements is for suckers am i rite folks?
 
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