The next-gen MX-5 Miata thread

[niky]

The weight discussion of NB versus NC is rather inconsequential, as the low 1000 kg plus curb weight of the NB is also sans luxuries and appointments.

Dreaming of a holistic approach to weight savings... a la Mazda2, I can see where they'll be shedding the weight.

All-new chassis using the same high strength steel as the Mazda2. 30 kgs.

Smaller engine: 25-35 kg. Probably more for a non-turbo base model. It may be possible to hit 150 hp with a tuned Skyactiv-G 1.5. Some of that savings will also be in a more compact transmission, a lighter flywheel and thinner gears. Base lightweight model will likely only have a five-speed box.

A shorter overall length due to the smaller engine... perhaps even some components repackaging to shorten it even further... which is probably why the ND will require explosive bolts, because they're going to pack that front end and hood really low and tight around the engine... unlike the current car, which extra crush space in front and up top. Say this saves about 2-4 inches in metal work and bumper supports. And let's give the car a shorter wheelbase, for even less mid-car metal work (which increases rigidity, too, since you bring the front and rear closer) and driveshaft components, wiring and plumbing. Another 50-60 kgs saved.

Designing brakes and suspension for a lighter car may save up to 15 kgs. Build the calipers into the suspension to save on the weight of the mounting hardware. Thinner discs. More compact suspension packaging... you won't need as much travel with a lighter car... though that would negatively affect the MX-5's traditionally great ride quality.

15" wheels or smaller. An 800 kg car doesn't need more than that. 205-50R15 fitment isn't that uncommon. That'll be another 10-15 kg saved from the current generation's standard 16s and 17s. (16 with much bigger tires than those 205-50s... weigh much more)

Carbon-fiber driveshaft? Unsure. Might push costs too high. But the base model with the 1.5 won't need a driveshaft that can take high torque loads... so let's say another 5 kgs.

Lightweight sports seats. Say another 10 kgs.

Simplified wiring harness (a la Mazda2) 5 kgs.

New weight saving AC and radio... won't count towards the base model's low weight total, but expect these to be lighter. Hell... skip the CD player and make it MP3-only... that will save about 250g.

Even lighter sunvisors than the current generation. Maybe 200g.

900kg? Totally possible without spending on unobtanium... errh... carbon fiber... components. 800? Still a stretch. I'd be happy with either.

Now make it cost just as much as a Mazda2, and I'll be ecstatic.

 

[theotherspongey]

I thought the MX-5 Superlight was the next version.

 

[fitftw]

I thought the MX-5 Superlight was the next version.

No, it was to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the MX-5. Never made it to production.

If the ND is indeed 1,000kg or less, if I ever make enough money to be able to afford a new car (highly unlikely) then it will be the ND. It all sounds too good to be true. Less than half the price of a Lotus, and 80% of the performance. Not to mention what will happen when Flyin' Miata and BeGi get their hands on it. Or how about an LS9 stuffed under the hood *drool*

 

[CodeRedR51]

Or how about an LS9 stuffed under the hood *drool*

If it'll fit.

 

[Keef]

Now make it cost just as much as a Mazda2, and I'll be ecstatic.

Ain't it funny how it sometimes costs more to engineer less?

 

[niky]

The Mazda2 doesn't cost all that much.

 

[CodeRedR51]

If they could knock a few grand off the base MSRP, that would be awesome.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

If they could knock a few grand off the base MSRP, that would be awesome.

It'd be necessary for certain people to even think about buying one.

I wouldn't mind an NC... Just, not for V6 Mustang money plus a bit. I can get a base V6 out of the door for about 20-21k. Miata? No A-plan so 23k and change.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Mazda2 doesn't cost all that much.

Certainly not more than its predecessor did. Probably less, even, and it's certainly sold more than the old one.

It's entirely feasible the next MX5 could cost less than the current one. I have a sneaking suspicion the economies of scale on the Sky engines will be fairly good, as they'll theoretically be used across a wider range of applications than the current ones.

The Mazda2 doesn't share gasoline engines with the rest of the range, whereas the Sky range could more than likely be used across the whole range - I could see a 1.5 turbo making for a performance Mazda2, a reasonably quick MX5, a mid range 3, and a base model 5. With enough power it may not even need the turbo for any of those.

It'll also replace diesel engines in the smaller applications, so Mazda will be saving money not developing an expensive small capacity diesel.

 

[Moot]

Mazda shares engines with Ford.

 

[homeforsummer]

Mazda shares engines with Ford.

They did, with the Sky engines they won't any longer.

 

[Moot]

I think the new MX5 should certainly cost less as there are so many less raw materials gone into making it. It's smaller.

 

[niky]

Less material does not guarantee a lower price tag. High strength steel and aluminum cost more than regular steel.

Mazda is set to produce SkyActiv diesels, too... But they haven't released them yet. I'm eagerly awaiting word about the SkyActiv-G mills in the just released Mazda2 facelift.

 

[RocZX]

Next gen Miata patent drawing.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mazda-mx-5-miata-2014.html

 

[homeforsummer]

Next gen Miata patent drawing.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mazda-mx-5-miata-2014.html

Not too bad. Looks like it keeps some styling cues of the original - round, Elan-like grille at the front, clamshell hood, rounded features.

Gotta laugh at all the comments on that story though. I'll make no comments about the amount of males clearly attracted to masculine things...

Why every car needs to be brash and aggressive I don't know, but then I don't really want morons like that driving Miatas anyway. Spoils it for the rest of us when all the "Bros" start driving nice cars.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Wonder when we'll actually see something in the flesh. The NC has been out for 6 years now, so I would expect to at least see a concept car in the next year, year and a half.

 

[Zenith]

Excuse my ignorance, but has the new, bigger MX-5 been used in grass roots at all? I'm yet to see one on the track or even stripped out.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Excuse my ignorance, but has the new, bigger MX-5 been used in grass roots at all? I'm yet to see one on the track or even stripped out.

Professional racing? Or non-Professional? There's the Playboy MX-5 Cup and I know there's a few teams in the Continental Tire series that use them.

 

[Keef]

Excuse my ignorance, but has the new, bigger MX-5 been used in grass roots at all? I'm yet to see one on the track or even stripped out.

Truth be told, the new car is overall a more expensive car than the older ones. Even six years on, it's not feasible to get a used NC when you can get a late-model NB for half the price and be met with a very wide array of quality aftermarket parts. Then there's the matter of modern electronics in the NC, which makes it more difficult to incorporate the factory electronics into a race car build. It's much easier, but also more expensive, to simply run a custom system, which is why grassroots people just don't bother. Using the stock stuff is too hard, but switching is too expensive. Therefore, NB. Better yet, NA because it's cheaper and lighter and even less complicated.

The days of the group of young kids buying a new car and modifying it something awesome overnight are gone. I don't think you'll see the NC become commonly modified for another 10 years.

 

[homeforsummer]

They're now running an NC class in the UK version of Spec Miata and it seems to be quite popular. They're running the NA cars alongside. Funnily enough, it's the NB Miata that doesn't seem to get any racing use over here.

Then of course there's the MX-5 GT which has been doing okay in Britcar or one of those sort of series.

Wonder when we'll actually see something in the flesh. The NC has been out for 6 years now, so I would expect to at least see a concept car in the next year, year and a half.

My guess: Concept will be previewed at either Paris or Los Angeles in 2012, and the production version will be unveiled at Tokyo 2012. On sale early 2013 (These are all guesses, but if I'm right you heard it here first...).

What I hope is that they'll show a concept at Geneva, production car at Paris and it'll be on sale towards the end of 2012.

 

[Crispy]

I love the NB Miata. My Parents own a Yellow Micha Special Edition.


I hope to get that as my first car. Already have learned the basics of driving on it.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm a fan too. It's just odd they aren't as widely raced as the NA despite being largely the same underneath.

That yellow looks great but I guarantee it'd look crap in the greyness and drizzle of the UK...

 

[Imari]

I'm a fan too. It's just odd they aren't as widely raced as the NA despite being largely the same underneath.

That yellow looks great but I guarantee it'd look crap in the greyness and drizzle of the UK...

It's not that odd. The NB is heavier with a bunch of stuff that you don't need for racing. The NA is quite a lot cheaper and lighter. As you say, mechanically they're basically the same car so it's a pretty easy choice if you're looking for a dedicated track car.

I would have said it's also down partly to the type of people that buy them. NBs tend to be bought more by those looking for a relaxed convertible motoring experience. NAs tend to be bought by those who are more inclined to sacrifice a bit of comfort for a more raw motoring experience, and those people are probably more likely to end up on a track. Generalising, of course, but at least in the MX5 club I belong to it bears out pretty well.

 

[homeforsummer]

It's not that odd. The NB is heavier with a bunch of stuff that you don't need for racing. The NA is quite a lot cheaper and lighter. As you say, mechanically they're basically the same car so it's a pretty easy choice if you're looking for a dedicated track car.

I considered mentioning that, but then the NB also came with higher-output engines as standard, and unless you run in a class where modifications are permitted, an NB should be marginally quicker than an NA, even considering the slight weight gain. There's not that much of a difference between a 1.8 NA and 1.8 NB anyway. Bit more of a difference between 1.6 NA and 1.8 NB though, around 100kg.

 

[Imari]

I considered mentioning that, but then the NB also came with higher-output engines as standard, and unless you run in a class where modifications are permitted, an NB should be marginally quicker than an NA, even considering the slight weight gain. There's not that much of a difference between a 1.8 NA and 1.8 NB anyway. Bit more of a difference between 1.6 NA and 1.8 NB though, around 100kg.

Standard rules for class racing allow the NA6s a catback exhaust as a free upgrade to equalise, I believe. NA8s and NBs are basically neck and neck. You're right, an NB is marginally faster on paper, but on a track and with non-professional drivers they're close enough that it's down to driver skill.

Personally, I think having the NA and NB models so mechanically interchangable was a major plus for the cars, and part of what has made them so appealing to a lot of people who like to tinker with their cars. If Mazda could somehow meet the goal of having a lighter, sportier ND that was also largely compatible with NC parts that would be a very good thing. Having a massive catalogue of NC parts that are ready to bolt on to NDs out of the showroom can only help sales.

 

[homeforsummer]

Personally, I think having the NA and NB models so mechanically interchangable was a major plus for the cars, and part of what has made them so appealing to a lot of people who like to tinker with their cars. If Mazda could somehow meet the goal of having a lighter, sportier ND that was also largely compatible with NC parts that would be a very good thing. Having a massive catalogue of NC parts that are ready to bolt on to NDs out of the showroom can only help sales.

I don't see that happening though. The ND seems like it's going to be as different from the NC as the NC was from the NB. Engine has been revealed as a 1.3 SkyActive turbo rather than 1.8/2.0 MZRs and that weight loss they're after should ensure very little is shared chassis-wise with the NC.

 

[niky]

Shame... the NC is basically a good car... (and faster everywhere than an NA or NB)... but I guess Mazda does need to do something with it to make it more relevant for the times.

Is it odd that I'm excited about seeing small-engined Miatas again, though?

 

[Tornado]

I'm a fan too. It's just odd they aren't as widely raced as the NA despite being largely the same underneath.

Makes perfect sense to me. NBs are basically the same as NAs anyway, but they are more expensive and they suffer from a crippling amount of "Not Having Flip-Ups." Who would want an NB?

 

[CodeRedR51]

NA + NB Interior = Perfect.

 

[Keef]

NA + NB Interior = Perfect.

For real. The only real reason I would prefer an NB is because they have decent interiors, and air conditioning that isn't R12.

Yeah, air conditioning. Because when you're stuck in city traffic on a humid 90 degree day, you keep the top up and the air con on.