The next-gen MX-5 Miata thread

[Eric.]

Is it wrong that the thought of such a thing makes me want to hurl?

Seriously though, that's actually worse than electric cars using exterior speakers to warn pedestrians. There's a safety reason for the latter, the former is the automotive equivalent of lip-syncing.

http://jalopnik.com/5843332/new-bmw-m5-fakes-its-engine-noise-for-your-pleasure?popular=true

 

[White & Nerdy]

That's really disgusting.

There is some hope here though: it's a reaction to the European authorities' apparent war on the ability of drivers to hear their own engines. There's a chance they'll just do what Lotus did with the Evora and make the American version louder. At least, I hope...

 

[noisiaturismo]

Less weight, less power, so it will compensate, just like the other lightweight cars.

Oh wait, they can't compensate.

 

[MagpieRacer]

http://jalopnik.com/5843332/new-bmw-m5-fakes-its-engine-noise-for-your-pleasure?popular=true

Thats awesome, I wanna pump and F1 sound through the car..mmm

 

[niky]

Watch as I become the only person in the entire forum to agree that would be a bad thing.

Have you driven a modern six cylinder with all the necessary emissions equipment? Unless the exhaust is specifically tuned to sound nice, it sounds like a kazoo gargling nails.

With the complexity of ambient air intakes with resonance chambers, electronic throttles, electronic ignition timing and fuel injection (and the elimination of the snap, crackle pop that entails), integrated exhaust manifolds, pre-catalytic converters, catalytic converters and noise regulation-friendly mufflers, most cars sound like absolute garbage nowadays.

The M5 example has been mentioned. The Z4 was one of the cars that started the trend of "intake speakers". The MX-5 was one of the earlier examples of a "tuned exhaust note", something which you will find nowadays on (turbocharged) MINI Coopers and McLaren MP412Cs.

A turbocharged midsized luxury sedan doesn't sound any worse than a non-turbocharged one... I've driven the new Volvo S60 T4s on the racetrack, and at full blat, they sound pretty nice, and the 1.6 turbo is a big step up from the old naturally aspirated 2.5.

A downsized turbo 5-series is a good idea. Unlike the M3 and M5, most run-of-the-mill BMW sedans don't sound like screaming banshees, anyway... so there's no big loss in aural excitement, but a definite gain in performance.

 

[homeforsummer]

The next 528i will have a 4 pot 2L engine and is better for it in pretty much every way - First drive review

The point I was making by referring to the BMW downsizing is that many intelligent manufacturers are doing it resulting in lighter, more efficient and faster cars. Let's not forget that the primary function of these cars is to transport people as efficiently as possible while fulfilling the requirements of the target buyer, for most people willy waving about the size of their engine isn't one of those requirements.

And the brand new 328i with that engine is supposed to be pretty much the best non-M3 3-Series ever (and as a result, one of the best BMWs ever). It's quicker (more power, more torque), quieter, handles, steers and stops better, rides better, it's built better, uses higher quality materials inside, weighs less, has more room and gets 15mpg more than the old six-cylinder.

But I wouldn't expect White & Nerdy to know that, because he's basing all his posts on groundless, dim-witted prejudice rather than anything approaching knowledge.

Have you driven a modern six cylinder with all the necessary emissions equipment?

Call me a big 'ol cynic but I don't expect he's driven much of anything.

 

[Keef]

I have a solution to all your engine sound problems, no matter what engine it is, its aspiration, or its size.

Straight pipes. Problem solved.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Call me a big 'ol cynic but I don't expect he's driven much of anything.

Well, he is in Alaska, so perhaps he has ridden on a big block Caribou? 💡

 

[Omnis]

Well, he is in Alaska, so perhaps he has ridden on a big block Caribou? 💡

He's got a big block. Roof-mount though:

 

[Kent]

Yawn...
Talk of BMW and engine size in a miata thread!? This world is mad after all!
Smaller, lighter= better. Thats my view on cars when it comes to the drive. With the obligations of work and family compramise must be made, the miata was never really meant for compramise (sp?). Gt- 2 seats and room for a weekend's luggage, thats GT at its heart... Sounds like a smaller, faster miata fits the bill well.

Not much of a DD mazda guy but my hats off to them wih the miata. How many has it been now? Solstice, mr2, s2k, bring the competition because it seems like the miata is in it for the long haul. Whats next, I dont know but hopefully a smaller lighter miata will be waiting... Waiting for a chopped gt86?!

 

[White & Nerdy]

As for the earlier talk about exhaust notes: I was under the impression that BMW was mildly famous for excellent-sounding I6 engines, even quite recently.

As for 2.0Ts in all the new BMWs, wouldn't they call them 320i and 520i then?

 

[Azuremen]

As for the earlier talk about exhaust notes: I was under the impression that BMW was mildly famous for excellent-sounding I6 engines, even quite recently.

As for 2.0Ts in all the new BMWs, wouldn't they call them 320i and 520i then?

No. You don't keep track of much, do you? The 335i and 535i both use a 3.0L Turbo I6.

BMW is fairly well known for their straight 6, partially from the sound, partially from how smooth it is. But that is the enthusiast community; the average person can't tell a boxer from a V8.

 

[niky]

As for the earlier talk about exhaust notes: I was under the impression that BMW was mildly famous for excellent-sounding I6 engines, even quite recently.

As for 2.0Ts in all the new BMWs, wouldn't they call them 320i and 520i then?

The old M3 sounded lovely. The recent (non-turbo) 325i and 330i don't sound like much of anything. A 335i doesn't sound like much, but give it an exhaust and it sounds suitably hardcore.

BMW naming convention doesn't follow engine size anymore. They name the variants based on their output. Thus:

116i - 2 liter engine: power of a 1.6.
118i - 2 liter engine: power of a 1.8
120i - 2 liter engine: power of a 2.0
123d - 2 liter engine: power of a... 2.3.
125i - 3 liter engine: power of a 2.5
128i - 3 liter engine: power of a 2.8
130i - 3 liter engine: power of a 3.0
135i - 3 liter turbocharged engine: power of a 3.5

And so on and so forth, yada yada yada.

That's merely approximate, as the new 118i is a turbocharged 1.6 with the same power as the old 120i... but who said it all had to make perfect sense?

Could be worse. The current Volvo T5 (global) is actually a four cylinder... though the 5 and 4 in T5 and T4 are supposed to represent cylinder count...

 

[Vince_Fiero]

<1.4 liters...

...is enough for Hayabusas.

...is enough for Caterhams.

...and with a turbo giving it more horses and torque than the current two liter, should be enough for a lighter Miata.

Made me think that F1 thinks of moving to 1.6 litre V6 turbo engines.

So not only the Miata's are sizing down, my wife found the 1.8 (3rd gen) too big when she was deciding to buy, but gave in in the end.

 

[Famine]

No. You don't keep track of much, do you? The 335i and 535i both use a 3.0L Turbo I6.

BMW is fairly well known for their straight 6, partially from the sound, partially from how smooth it is. But that is the enthusiast community; the average person can't tell a boxer from a V8.

My BMW has a very nice straight six, displacing 2.5 litres. My BMW is a 523i and it's from 1997...

 

[CodeRedR51]

Forgive me if this has been posted already.

http://carrolodex.com/2011/12/07/the-2014-mazda-mx-5-to-be-powered-by-a-1-3-liter-turbo-engine/

The Next generation Mazda is slated for a March 2013 debut at the Geneva Motor Show, with cars showing up in the show rooms by the fall of 2013 as 2014 models.

 

[homeforsummer]

Forgive me if this has been posted already.

http://carrolodex.com/2011/12/07/the-2014-mazda-mx-5-to-be-powered-by-a-1-3-liter-turbo-engine/

Hmm. I don't dispute any of that, but it all seems a bit "hearsay".

Unless Mazda is going to announce it in the next few weeks, I've not yet heard anything suggesting they're going to be unveiling something MX5-related at Geneva. Though if they do that'd be wonderful as it'll help my book no end.

 

[RocZX]

Hmm. I don't dispute any of that, but it all seems a bit "hearsay".

Unless Mazda is going to announce it in the next few weeks, I've not yet heard anything suggesting they're going to be unveiling something MX5-related at Geneva. Though if they do that'd be wonderful as it'll help my book no end.

It say March 2013 not 2012, it will be next year.

 

[CodeRedR51]

It say March 2013 not 2012, it will be next year.

👍

 

[homeforsummer]

Serves me right for skimming the post. In that case, it's a possibility, but still all a bit up in the air at this stage.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I want a rotary for the next miata, at least as an option.

And for those saying a wankel doesn't have enough torque for an MX-5...STOP DRIVING RX8s and N/A FCs! That's almost like putting the Miata engine in a 3100lbs car and expecting it to be punchy...

A renesis in a Miata would go like a raped ape! Hell my stock-port, full exhaust only S3 RX-7 (EFI 13b, roughly NB weight) feels quicker than any stock miata, NC included.

 

[Tornado]

A renesis in a Miata would go like a raped ape!

So would the turbocharged MZR engine from the Mazda CX-7/MazdaSpeed 3...



And would be cheaper, more powerful and easier to live with.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Perhaps. But I doubt it would be more fun. Also, the MZR unit is quite heavy, and primarily top heavy. There is a reason the new BR-Z/GT-86 has a boxer engine...The Renny is under 200lbs dry IIRC, and the shortblock with oil pan is something like 15" tall. And it's smooth as butter. And it revs past 9,000rpm. And it sounds better than any 4 cylinder (alright that's subjective). And it would deliver 30mpg + in a Miata.

 

[CodeRedR51]

So would the turbocharged MZR engine from the Mazda CX-7/MazdaSpeed 3...

Mazda tried that, it wasn't cost effective because it wouldn't fit properly without major modifications.

Heard that directly from a Mazda rep.

 

[homeforsummer]

And the other issue is that it still needs more careful and more regular maintenance than a regular four-cylinder, so it's not as suitable for the fairly wide range of people the MX5 is aimed at.

I can fully understand Mazda's reason for going for a small turbo four-pot. Particularly the SkyActiv one, since economy and power for the size is very good indeed.

 

[Keef]

Give it up with the rotary Miata idea. Rotaries go in RX cars. The Miata is an MX. With modern fuel economy regulations, Mazda can't afford to have more than one car using a rotary because all the rest of them have to make up the difference.

A Miata should be powered by a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder because it's simple, its cheap, its powerful enough, its clean, and it gets good gas mileage. Miatas never were designed to "go like a raped ape" and I honestly hope they never will be.

 

[fitftw]

Mazda leaves the "raped ape" MX-5's to the aftermarket with Chevy LSx V8's. A 180hp 2.0L I-4 would be perfect, and maybe a new Mazdaspeed version with the Skyactiv engine from the Mazda 3 + a turbo.

 

[niky]

To note, the FT86 may have a lower COG for the engine with the boxer, but it also limits them to a McPherson strut front.

Not that you can't get a McPherson strut car to handle (and all indications suggest the BRZFRS really does handle), but the MX-5's near perfect combination of handling and ride are partially due to its double-wishbone suspension.

 

[Keef]

I gotta be honest, I think the BreezeFrees will kick the Miata off the 10 Best list this year. Maybe. Or maybe it will just join the Miata on the list and kick something else off.

 

[niky]

Goodbye Accord?