The old Holden v Ford debate answered!

The old debate - Holden v Ford. The comparison was ripe for the writing, so I did it. The FPV (Ford Performance Vehicles) F6 Typhoon versus the Holden Commodore SS. Here it is...




Terrors Australis

The cool air is frosting our breath the instant it leaves our mouths. Bob and I are wandering toward the two rather unassuming cars parked across the road. Although they look a bit understated, they definitely have much more poke than your average Camry. One packs a turbocharged 4-litre punch, the other an almighty 5.7 litre knockout blow. One develops 269kW, the other a slightly smaller 244kW. Two cars, seemingly similar, but dig below the surface and you will find some very stark differences…

One of these cars is a brand spanking new Ford F6 Typhoon, painted in a very quick looking yellow, the other, a similarly new Holden Commodore SS, is an evil looking black – ‘Phantom Mica’ in Holdenspeak. They sit there, begging for me to take them by the neck and shake them about, but I can’t. I’m on the road. I need to be sensible, refrained. So instead I get in and sit in the tight-wrapping bucket seat of the SS. As I rev the engine, a primeval roar escapes the bonnet, and the big Commodore leaps forth. Similar things happened when Bob gave his F6 Typhoon a prod, and we’re soon making our way toward our ultimate destination – the track.

Performance testing – the perspiration of motoring journalism. To save time, fuel, and tires, each car was restricted to three runs over the standing quarter mile. Traction control was left in original settings, and the automatic tranny on the cars provided an even playing field. The big Ford returned a best time of 13.762 seconds – not bad for something weighing in at a not-so-slim 1776 kilograms. This result was achieved by launching at about 5000 rpm, then flooring the loud pedal and letting the engine do the rest. The only drawback was the gears, which felt a little long-winded due to the absence of a sixth ratio.

A quick change of wheels saw me again clambering behind the wheel of the SS. Immediate thoughts were that the Commodore would be much faster – the gears felt swift, the take-off neat and precise and the acceleration fast. We were shocked when the results came in – the SS felt its 25 kW power deficit in the standing start. The result was a respectable 14.158 seconds, largely due to a change into fourth gear, whereas the Ford just managed to hold third until it crossed the line.

Top speed testing saw us head out to the banked testing ring near our testing ring. Both cars performed fairly well, although the Ford won the day with a top speed of 275 km/h versus the 270 km/h for the Holden. The big SS failed to reach higher speeds because of its useless sixth gear. As soon as the auto changed up, the car lost speed and revs. In fact, further testing discovered that this gear would only hold its own until about 150 km/h. Even at highway cruising speed (110 km/h), acceleration was pathetically slow, as the engine was only revving at about 1300 rpm. Fifth saw 2 grand on the tacho and decent acceleration resulted.

Next, our two Aussie stormers took to the track, with the Commodore going first to set the pace for the Ford to follow. On the track, the big SS feels composed, if a bit sluggish around corners. With standard ESP, it has great turn-in grip, but fails through the mid-corner and exits. Turn the ESP off, and it’s a different story. Turn-in is still good, but on the exits to corners the Holden just blasts away. Although down on power to the FPV, the SS still has huge power and torque down low, so there it’s not compulsory to always be in the perfect rpm range. Then the Ford took to our track, and immediately commanded my attention. The car may weigh 120-odd kilograms more than the Commodore, but it doesn’t feel it. It manages to stash the kilos and get on with the job. Turn-in, mid corner grip and corner exits were all great, whether the ASM was on or off. The only thing hampering the Ford was its hugely long gear ratios that failed to see fifth around the track. In the hands of my able co-driver Bob, the cars recorded these times:
Holden Commodore SS: 1:30.278
Ford FPV F6 Typhoon: 1:28.682

Overall, the SS is just too boring. It looks plain, sounds plain and drives plain. Its engine is 1.4 litres larger than the Ford’s, but has lots less power. It feels every one of its 1658 kilos. Its useless sixth and dull driving experience all add up to a dull car.

The Ford is a completely different matter. It looks more special than the average Falcon, sounds better, and hides its weight well. When driving these cars, it’s difficult to believe that the F6 weighs 118 kg more than the SS. It’s so much more nimble through turns. It just feels much, much faster. There’s nearly no turbo lag, with masses of torque (550 NM) down where it’s needed. It will cruise at 110 km/h in fifth with 2 grand on the tachometer.

The Holden thinks it’s the best, despite it’s dynamic problems. It’s for people who want to think they’re cool. The Ford doesn’t. It’s not. It’s for people who want a real driving car. That’s it. That’s the difference.

Holden Commodore SS:
5.7 litre V8, 244 kW, 464.51 NM, 1658 kg, 40 430 Cr

Ford FPV F6 Typhoon ’04:
4 litre L6, 269 kW, 550 NM, 1776 kg, 46 740 Cr
 
The old debate - Holden v Ford. The comparison was ripe for the writing, so I did it. The FPV (Ford Performance Vehicles) F6 Typhoon versus the Holden Commodore SS. Here it is.

Its rather short at the moment - in fact I don't see a thing.

?

Scaff
 
sorry - having trouble getting all this to work! It just freezes as soon as I try to post any large bulk of text, but the file wouldn't upload as an attachment either. Where can I get the document hosted? Anyone know any good sites?

EDIT: Still trying for a host - it's after 10 pm here, been trying for half an hour!
 
It really doesn't answer Holden vs Ford anyway, the SS should be compared to a Falcon XR8 (road car) or FPV vs HSV, it's too bad we can't do that. Maybe GT5.
 
Ford all the way.
Stuff the all the holden loving hippys.
Plus who has won the V8 supercars Three times in a row Fords SBR team:sly: .

SBR = Stone Brothers Racing. for those who don't follow the V8s.
 
Ford suck in real life! Up with the VE:tup: . Seriously though, the FPV's on GT4 are superior. Yes I know its unfair because its an SS vs an FPV, but the Monaro does pump out more power then the Typhoon. Having said that, it does nothing :( . My typhoon can do a 6'03 around Nur', fully modded, whilst I cant even get a decent lap in the skittish Holden :( . If someone can get under that time in an SS or Monaro, then I may just have to go back and look at wat I was doing wrong :)
 
sorry about the delay - i haven't been able to host the document or get it on in the post. I'm still trying, but I will say that I AM NOT BIASED. Fords and Holdens are nearly the same anyway.
 
The Fords have more power, but handling on the FPVs isn't really a joy. I'd pick the Commodore for better balance.

Nurb times don't prove much, mind you, as a much more powerful car can still win a Nurb challenge down that long back straight, even if it's five to ten seconds behind out of the last few corners.
 
sorry about the delay - i haven't been able to host the document or get it on in the post. I'm still trying, but I will say that I AM NOT BIASED. Fords and Holdens are nearly the same anyway.

I must confess I don't see how posting the info up here should be causing any problem at all?

Any text can simply be pasted in here and any supporting pictures inserted using the
tags and any other supporting documents attached (subject to size) using the 'attach files' function.

I've personally posted up some huge threads here at GTPlanet and never had any major issues in this way, so I would ask what is the nature of the info being posted that is causing the problem.


@everyone else
Guys can we pleaseensure this does not turn into a childish Holden vs Ford flame war, as the only result will be a locked thread. Keep it pleasent and discss it intelligently.


Thanks

Scaff
 
bjb
Ford all the way.
Stuff the all the holden loving hippys.
Plus who has won the V8 supercars Three times in a row Fords SBR team:sly: .

SBR = Stone Brothers Racing. for those who don't follow the V8s.


Oh please don't bring up V8 Boringcars as a Holden vs Ford debate, they are engineered by rules to be competitive with each other, asoon as one is consistently faster new restrictions to them are introduced.

Look at the last 10 years of V8 notquiteSupercars results including Bathust wins for Holden vs Ford results, not that I really careless anyway.

BTW the new VE is a porka, I hope the new 2008 Falcon doesn't do the same.
 
In my (short) time watching the V8 Supercars I've learnt a few things. One of them is that some of the fans so blindly follow their 'own' make that they actually boo drivers from other makes when they're on the podium collecting their trophies. Supporting your team is one thing, but come one. How sporting is it to boo someone just because they don't drive the car you want to win?

Back on topic, I don't have a favourite between the two in V8 Supercars but I like the Holden Monaro in real life.
 
. Supporting your team is one thing, but come one. How sporting is it to boo someone just because they don't drive the car you want to win?

Thats exactly right sadly, thats what it's like. Thats why Jim richards called the Bathurst crowd "A pack of assholes" back in 1992.


Anyway this comparison (GT4) is rally Holden vs FPV, not Ford.
 
If you want to e-mail the file to me, I'll see if I can post it up. My e-mail address is in my profile.
 
Oh please don't bring up V8 Boringcars as a Holden vs Ford debate, they are engineered by rules to be competitive with each other, asoon as one is consistently faster new restrictions to them are introduced.

Look at the last 10 years of V8 notquiteSupercars results including Bathust wins for Holden vs Ford results, not that I really careless anyway.

BTW the new VE is a porka, I hope the new 2008 Falcon doesn't do the same.

It's better then the F1. At lest different people win races not the same guy over and over and over a gain to the point that some people stoped watching it to the point that the FAI (I think that's what they call them selves.) cut the downforce and drop two cylinders to try and liven thing up.
 
The problem was probably that the file was inexplicably massive. I'll paste the text into your first post...
 
Yes V8 supercars are engineered the same with Ford 9-inch diffs and the like but so is NASCAR and the Americans have brand loyalties to Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge the same applies in the V8's thats the reason why we (Aussies and us Kiwis) flock to the racetracks & also the best racing in the southern hemisphere
 
Yes V8 supercars are engineered the same with Ford 9-inch diffs and the like but so is NASCAR and the Americans have brand loyalties to Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge the same applies in the V8's thats the reason why we (Aussies and us Kiwis) flock to the racetracks & also the best racing in the southern hemisphere

Two make race is not my thing, I prefer to watch production cars, Targa Tasmania (and similar), rally and occasional F1.
 
I was wondering the same thing my self... just didn't want to be the first to ask... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Maybe he meant the Holden Efijy..... Which would be weird anyway.
 
bjb
Ford all the way.
Stuff the all the holden loving hippys.
Plus who has won the V8 supercars Three times in a row Fords SBR team:sly: .

SBR = Stone Brothers Racing. for those who don't follow the V8s.

but we all know the lion rules the mountain :P :sly:
mt04bathurst2004holdencomparison00400011gs5.jpg
 
the ford GT can kill the FIJY hands down dispit being weaker in the power department
Fijy?
I was wondering the same thing my self... just didn't want to be the first to ask... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe he meant the Holden Efijy..... Which would be weird anyway.

I'm pretty sure the Efijy is what he meant, considering he posted a picture of it in this thread.

I don't really see the point in comparing a supercar to a one-off concept car intended to demonstrate the abilities of a design studio...
 
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