The Rise of Populism, both Left and Right

  • Thread starter Dotini
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Joel
It's too blurry to see lottery numbers (it's not an HD crystal ball unfortunately). I'm looking at 2020 right now and the Leafs still haven't made the playoffs!

Seriously though, we just have a fundamentally different view of Trump and his policies and I don't pretend to be anything other than a dude writing on an internet board. I just don't see anything about Trump's platform or actions since winning the election that convinces me he will help working people and I see a lot that makes me think he's going to make things worse.
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Well I guess those 1000 Carrier jobs are a start. Stock market is up. OPEC is now 🤬 their pants,if the pipelines go through,OPEC is screwed.
 
stonesfan129
What? Hillary got more votes. Trump won more states. It's specifically because of the reasons I stated above.
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Yes, but Trump had less votes then Romney had in 2012, and Hillary had significantly less then Obama in 2012.

People didn't exactly turn out for Trump.
 
It's clear the turnout was down quite a bit from 2012 and it ended up hurting HRC more than Trump. Personally I suspect a good part of the reason was a lot of people couldn't stomach the idea of voting for either of the candidates

So why not vote for Stein or Johnson or whoever? Because they couldn't be bothered to go to the trouble of going out and voting as a symbolic protest.
 
BobK
It's clear the turnout was down quite a bit from 2012 and it ended up hurting HRC more than Trump. Personally I suspect a good part of the reason was a lot of people couldn't stomach the idea of voting for either of the candidates

So why not vote for Stein or Johnson or whoever? Because they couldn't be bothered to go to the trouble of going out and voting as a symbolic protest.
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More people voted 3rd party then the last election though, by a big margin.
 
BobK
It's clear the turnout was down quite a bit from 2012 and it ended up hurting HRC more than Trump. Personally I suspect a good part of the reason was a lot of people couldn't stomach the idea of voting for either of the candidates

So why not vote for Stein or Johnson or whoever? Because they couldn't be bothered to go to the trouble of going out and voting as a symbolic protest.
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Now that all the absentee ballots have been counted turnout actually was up - about 6.5 million votes more in 2016 than in 2012. Both Trump/C̶l̶i̶n̶t̶o̶n̶ got more total votes than Romney/O̶b̶a̶m̶a̶ (edit: oops, Hillary got less votes than Obama), but both a lower share, as the share of third-party votes tripled.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2016&off=0&f=1

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2012&off=0&f=1
 
TRGTspecialist
Now that all the absentee ballots have been counted turnout actually was up - about 6.5 million votes more in 2016 than in 2012. Both Trump/C̶l̶i̶n̶t̶o̶n̶ got more total votes than Romney/O̶b̶a̶m̶a̶ (edit: oops, Hillary got less votes than Obama), but both a lower share, as the share of third-party votes tripled.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2016&off=0&f=1

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2012&off=0&f=1
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Thank you for that. I stand corrected. I had, however, read in a number of places that Trump received fewer votes than Romney but on reflection none of them cited actual figures.
 
Dotini
Will he be convicted? What is the penalty?
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Guilty of insulting a group and encouraging discrimination but no punishment. The judge found his actions to be unworthy for a politician. Wilders will appeal the verdict.
 
Dennisch
Guilty of insulting a group and encouraging discrimination but no punishment. The judge found his actions to be unworthy for a politician. Wilders will appeal the verdict.
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BBC are saying this verdict will only cement and increase his popularity. True, or false?
 
Dotini
BBC are saying this verdict will only cement and increase his popularity. True, or false?
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We will see with the next elections. For now he has begun a steady climb again in the polls. But I suspect that is mostly because of the other parties, or more specifically the ruling parties failing to uphold their promises. (shocking)

PM Rutte still hasn't given an answer about the Ukraine referendum, that was held in April. He keeps on weaseling himself out of giving an answer by saying that it's an arduous situation. But it's not. We said no. We were told that the outcome of the referendum would be upheld.

Politicians. Scum.
 
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I've been a voting libertarian since the 1990's. Liberal on social issues, conservative on fiscal matters, and anti-war. Since 2001 I've been reading Philip Giraldi with interest.

I commend this article from the Unz Review which poses the question, "Why do progressives like war?" It also takes a few digs at conservatives.
http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/why-do-progressives-like-war/

Red-Army-600x400.jpg

Liberals are supposed to be antiwar, right?
As I look around now, however, I see something quite different.
 
TenEightyOne
Umm... no. That's pacifists you're thinking of. Pacifisim is generally (but far from exclusively) a feature of the left-wing rather than the liberal centre ground.
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I think of pacifists as those who would refuse to fight even if attacked. I think of anti-war not as pacifism but as being against wars of choice. I equate libertarian with antiwar and equate liberals/progressives as being pro-wars of choice.
 
Dotini
I think of anti-war not as pacifism but as being against wars of choice.
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Then that's not anti-war, that's simply anti-starting-a-war :D

Dotini
I equate libertarian with antiwar and equate liberals/progressives as being pro-wars of choice.
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That's even more confusing, Libertarians are not necessarily the same as liberals or Liberals.
 


Adams was able to "gather together, formulate, and practice the fundamentals of American foreign-policy – self-determination, independence, noncolonization, nonintervention, nonentanglement in European politics, Freedom of the Seas, [and] freedom of commerce."

- from the wikipedia
 
The polls have closed in France. Sky news is reporting that the second round will be Macron v. Le Pen.

23.7% Macron
21.7% Le Pen
 
Election day in France. When Brexit passed the polls were off by a little. When Trump won the polls were off by quite a bit, but for Le Penn to win, the polls have to be off by Whole lot.

But more on populism.

language warning
 
Following the results of the first round of Parliamentary election in France, i thought that giving an history of Front National (Le Pen, Jean-Marie then Marine) would put things into perspective, and beyond these leaders personality:
ballots %
1981 -> 90 422 * 0,35
1986 -> 2 703 442 * 9,65
1988 -> 2 359 528 * 9,66
1993 -> 3 152 543 * 12,42
1997 -> 3 785 383 * 14,94
2002-> 2 862 960 * 11,34
2007 -> 1 116 005 * 4,29
2012 -> 3 528 663 * 13,6
2017 -> 2 990 592 * 13,2
 
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Populism versus elitism in a nutshell.



(They're both in the wrong btw)
 
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