The Search For Weapons of Mass Destruction...

[Tacet_Blue]

Bush makes decisions to do things, in 2015, without the consent of the senate or aything and assumes all will go through when he may not even be elected. His only reason for even running was to make money. Who do you think is the one profiting off of the war in Iraq?

Well I don't know how true that is, all policies still have to go through and be approved by the House of representatives and the Senate. Yes, Bush has got an easy ride since the Republicans dominate Congress (thats more to do with the sucess of the republicans than one mans will) and he can relatively easily push through a bill.

Don't worry he will be gone in 2008 (as I can see it is a problem for you ), as unlike many democracies a US president can only run two terms. It may be true that he can influence policies in 2015, just like all the presidents before him have influenced policy now...as I said...congress is slow...they can vote out a president in four years before they have actually contributed to a policy.

I don't know about your last comment either, as I'm sure the US are not profitng from the war, by all accounts it is costing them a fortune. You mentioned the oil in another thread, but as you can see from the graph, oil is more expensive now. There is no profit in war, only loss.

oops, I'm digressing, this thread is about WMD, not another "US is evil" thread, so I'm going to leave you to it now.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

lol ok, here we go, and mod's: i promise this will be the last of the off-topicness

"I don't know about your last comment either, as I'm sure the US are not profitng from the war, by all accounts it is costing them a fortune. You mentioned the oil in another thread, but as you can see from the graph, oil is more expensive now. There is no profit in war, only loss.

oops, I'm digressing, this thread is about WMD, not another "US is evil" thread, so I'm going to leave you to it now. "

I said Bush was profiting. not America. George W. Bush himself, and his father George H.W. are major players in the company that manufactures the weaponry and sells them to the army, which consequently gets its' cash from the Gov't. When this weaponry (and not just guns, tanks missiles etc) is sold, the Bush family gets a porsion of that cash. That's why many people seem to think he's in the presidency for the money. As if $400 000.00 a year wasn't enough. And not to mention the fact that his daddy owns like a bajillion oil wells, and does lots of trading with the Saudis. And don't forget the fact they were having a meeting with the Osama family the day they were flown out of the USA (aka 9/11). Of course he had to stop by and read a book to a kindergarten class first. Anyway, I think the whole WMD was just a plow to deploy troops in Iraq, which means they need weapons, which means he gets cash, which means the Bush family makes more billions. It all ties together in the end.

 

[Solid Fro]

Those Utopian poppy seeds are really getting to you, aren't they?

 

[PublicSecrecy]

pop pop pop pop pop pop pop fnar fnar!!!

 

[Tacet_Blue]

lol ok, here we go, and mod's: i promise this will be the last of the off-topicness

I said Bush was profiting. not America. George W. Bush himself, and his father George H.W. are major players in the company that manufactures the weaponry and sells them to the army, which consequently gets its' cash from the Gov't. When this weaponry (and not just guns, tanks missiles etc) is sold, the Bush family gets a porsion of that cash. That's why many people seem to think he's in the presidency for the money. As if $400 000.00 a year wasn't enough. And not to mention the fact that his daddy owns like a bajillion oil wells, and does lots of trading with the Saudis. And don't forget the fact they were having a meeting with the Osama family the day they were flown out of the USA (aka 9/11). Of course he had to stop by and read a book to a kindergarten class first. Anyway, I think the whole WMD was just a plow to deploy troops in Iraq, which means they need weapons, which means he gets cash, which means the Bush family makes more billions. It all ties together in the end.

Not this one again, it has even been discussed by myself in this thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1294201&postcount=54

You realise that George W Bush never attended any meeting, it wasn't the day before 9/11 and it was with Osama's half brother who hadn't seen Osama for years....but this is how conspiracy theory starts

Also it's the BinLaden family not the Osama family and "aka" is an acronym for "also known as"...I'm not sure how that applies to the USA, maybe you meant something else.

If Bush was in it for the money he could have made more as an investor. Politicians make far less money than businessmen ...I don't think Bill Gates was ever president. (I'm pretty sure the Bush family don't even have one billion, never mind billions)
Companies like BAE or Marconi make a big profit from selling weapons and hardware, but that doesn't mean that they actively try and create conflicts so they can sell more.

It all ties together in the end

In your eyes only.

 

[Schumy]

In your eyes only.

in my eyes as well...

 

[Tacet_Blue]

in my eyes as well...

So you think that W Bush is a billionaire, his father runs the country through him, US policy is based on how much money Bush snr can make through arms sales, and the WMD story was made up by Bush so he could deploy troops...that's good stuff 👍

Surely there is an easier way to make money

 

[s0nny80y]

The UN along with a bunch of other organizations and governments thought that saddam , with his track record was a threat to use WMD 's . That and the fact that he refused to comply with weapons inspections ( after losing a war ! ) led everyone to believe he had them and was hiding them. It could have been a big bluff on his part...him thinking others would be scared to attack him if they thought he had a bunch of scary stuff to use...but in this case it got him put in a cage and his country occupied.. At any rate at the time the decision to attack Iraq was debated very few thought that on the basis of existing evidence and Saddams past USE of wmd that he didnt have them or would not build them and use them given a CHANCE....he never got the chance... and he never will...thats the whole point.

The US should have let the UN finish the investigations no matter how long it would have taken. I believe the UN team had only ten days left to finish investigations before the US launched a pre-emptive strike. If the UN team ever finished their report with conclusive results, we would have gotten the backing of the whole international/UN community.

AND with the backing of the whole international community and their armed forces, the US would not have had such a high count on the death poll.

So if every leader of the 'Axis of Evil' threatened the US with nukes, would the US go on a 'shoot first, ask questions later' basis? Not only that but how much more can the international community trust the US' decision to invade another country based on 'real facts'? It's sort of like a wierd variation of The Boy Who Cried Help, except next time w/o the help of the international community, we'll be losing more lives than one. I know that the Boy Who Cried Help scenario is very simple but very real when you consider the cost of engaging a war.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

So you think that W Bush is a billionaire, his father runs the country through him, US policy is based on how much money Bush snr can make through arms sales, and the WMD story was made up by Bush so he could deploy troops...that's good stuff 👍

Surely there is an easier way to make money

I never said that. It's not about running the country, it's about using what is at you fingertips (in the president's case...just about everything) to make money. George HW Bush and son are investors, and yes, they do make billions. The Bush family was paid $1.4 billion over the course of a few years with the oil wells he has. George W. Bush (the current president) often meets with his father on business occasions. George W. Bush doesn't make that much money (compared to his dad), mainly because every business he's ever been in has died, and then mysteriously been saved by this huge amount of money that seemed to come out of nowhere (ala Arbusto). And btw, it makes perfect sense to send troops to war, although morally, it is horribly incorrect, but from a personal (NOT the country's) standpoint, it's a great business opportunity. Oh and let's not forget that Bill Gates isn't actually the richest person in the world, he just owns the most stock. And estimated $89 billion of the supposed $90 billion he has is all in Microsoft stock, and not actual money.

 

[Ghost C]

The Bush family was paid $1.4 billion over the course of a few years with the oil wells he has.

Billion. No matter how you count it, one point four billion will never total more than one point four billion, and therefore will never be in the billions.

George W. Bush (the current president) often meets with his father on business occasions.

Show me proof. And if you show me a picture of him and his dad playing golf or sitting in a room together, I'll laugh at you.

And btw, it makes perfect sense to send troops to war, although morally, it is horribly incorrect, but from a personal (NOT the country's) standpoint, it's a great business opportunity.

Show me where George W. Bush owns stock in any of the companies (Notice: Plural. There's a few dozen of them.) that make weapons and munitions for the United States. If (Read: When) you can't, stop using this argument.

Oh and let's not forget that Bill Gates isn't actually the richest person in the world, he just owns the most stock. And estimated $89 billion of the supposed $90 billion he has is all in Microsoft stock, and not actual money.

Yes, he is the richest man in the world. If he sold all of the stock he owns, get this, it'd be "actual money". Stock is counted toward net worth for that reason.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

The Bush family was paid $1.4 billion over the course of a few years with the oil wells he has.

Yep, but before he was President. And thats only £750 million, not even a billion in real money

Looking into the Carlyle group, its interesting to see that John Major was the European Chairman More famous for his adulterous relationship with Edwina, and being the "grey man"

And PublicSecrecy for your information George Bush snr retired from the Carlyle group in October 2003...he was only a shareholder, not even as influential as Mr Major, so is that the end of the Salem Bin Laden link (one of Osama's 17 brothers) or is it still to be perpetuated?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Show me proof. And if you show me a picture of him and his dad playing golf or sitting in a room together, I'll laugh at you.

Ghost, I think I've found the exact business meeting that PublicS is referring to

That must be real, it was on the Web

 

[PublicSecrecy]

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Ain't that the truth.

Truth...NO, Satire...YES.

You make vague allegations about family members dealing with Bush, but you leave it up to others to actually provide the name ( Salem ) and what the link was.
When you were asked by Ghost to provide some evidence for your claims, you just ignored him and concentrated on the pretty picture.

You could have at least come up with the name of the Carlyle group yourself. If you had, you might have checked up on your story a bit before regurgitating it. Since you don't seem to bother reading any post that found a flaw in your argument...here's a recap

Bush Jnr has NEVER worked for or been paid by the Carlyle group...(Unlike Colin Powel, paid $250,000 for after dinner speech)

Bush Snr RETIRED in 10/03.

Since you don't source any of your info or provide links, I'm beginning to think that maybe you get your info from cartoons like the one above.

Why don't you pick another conspiracy theory, (there are plenty to choose from ) instead of trying to spread around one that has been dead and buried for over a year.

 

[Ghost C]

When you were asked by Ghost to provide some evidence for your claims, you just ignored him and concentrated on the pretty picture.

Don't be surprised, I wasn't. It's the tried and true favorite of the left - Stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, LALALALALALA" until the other side gives up.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Don't be surprised, I wasn't. It's the tried and true favorite of the left - Stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, LALALALALALA" until the other side gives up.

I don't know if it's a quality of the Left in particular, I'm sure there are those on the Right that do the same.

It's certainly a quality of the ignorant though

I don't know if I'm particularly left or right of center. In the UK the line has been become very blurred, with the Labour party adopting Tory values and the Tories trying to regain popularity by adopting Labour values

 

[a6m5]

Tacet & Ghost C:

If the Bush Family did gain financially from the Iraq situation, wouldn't they be smart enough to hide the trail? I know that if I was in their position and were being paid by some corporation, I would make sure that article saying "B.P. cut the check for a6m5(U.S. President) today, in the sum of $500 million, following the invasion of Iraq....." would not appear in the front page of the U.S.A. Today.

I do realize that there is no evidence showing the Bush Family profitted directly from this war, or it would be all over the news. But in politics, there is lot more going on underneath the surface than what you will see(or sometimes, what we are allowed to see). I think there's an excellent chance that certain people were supposed to have profitted from this war.

Me, personally, I think there's a bigger picture here, bigger than just money. I'm sure Bush Family already have plenty of cash and power for themselves. My wild guess would be that they are trying to shape the Middle East in the way it is profittable(politically & financially) for the United States in the future. Yes, it is an conspiracy theory and it is purely my (wild)guess and nothing more.

 

[demon of speed]

My question is...Did the search for WMD's actualy begin?

 

[a6m5]

I don't know if I'm particularly left or right of center. In the UK the line has been become very blurred, with the Labour party adopting Tory values and the Tories trying to regain popularity by adopting Labour values

Many people I've talked to says they are in the middle, but I live in Oregon, where it's considered an very liberal state.

I'm definitely to the right. I support the President's views on most issues.

 

[Ghost C]

Tacet & Ghost C:

If the Bush Family did gain financially from the Iraq situation, wouldn't they be smart enough to hide the trail? I know that if I was in their position and were being paid by some corporation, I would make sure that article saying "B.P. cut the check for a6m5(U.S. President) today, in the sum of $500 million, following the invasion of Iraq....." would not appear in the front page of the U.S.A. Today.

I do realize that there is no evidence showing the Bush Family profitted directly from this war, or it would be all over the news. But in politics, there is lot more going on underneath the surface than what you will see(or sometimes, what we are allowed to see). I think there's an excellent chance that certain people were supposed to have profitted from this war.

Me, personally, I think there's a bigger picture here, bigger than just money. I'm sure Bush Family already have plenty of cash and power for themselves. My wild guess would be that they are trying to shape the Middle East in the way it is profittable(politically & financially) for the United States in the future. Yes, it is an conspiracy theory and it is purely my (wild)guess and nothing more.

The problem with that is, the Bush family doesn't own any of the companies that make weapons, munitions, or any other supplies for the US government. They don't even own stock in any of the corporations, and for the most part, the corporations that make the above are owned by the government, funded by taxes. That of course rules out any shareholders for the companies where that is true.

We're also not stealing Iraqi oil, unless all the troops in Iraq are part of the largest coverup mankind has ever seen - Which I kinda doubt.

 

[a6m5]

First, just to clarify, Ghost C's statements are facts. I'm just posting my opinions here. They are just my analysis:

The problem with that is, the Bush family doesn't own any of the companies that make weapons, munitions, or any other supplies for the US government. They don't even own stock in any of the corporations, and for the most part, the corporations that make the above are owned by the government, funded by taxes. That of course rules out any shareholders for the companies where that is true.

I'm pretty sure that you are right about those, but it's possible that it might not be related directly to the war. This is just one possiblity here: Most of Iraq got blown up, destroyed in this war. Now, one of most popular way the politicians cash in the bribery is in the construction. In Iraq, possibility are endless. We are not just talkin' roads, buildings, pipes/lines, we are talking the entire country. Again, it's not an fact, just one of the possible ways people with power can make a lot of money from the war.

We're also not stealing Iraqi oil, unless all the troops in Iraq are part of the largest coverup mankind has ever seen - Which I kinda doubt.

No, I'm sure the U.S. wouldn't steal oil, but I have to say, they are definitely closer to securing their oil supply in the Middle East. Most believe the U.S. want out of Iraq ASAP, but I'm not too sure now. Just by being there, U.S. can keep it's enemies in line, more effectively and efficiently. This huge U.S. presence in Iraq changes the way the game is played in the Middle East, especially concerning oil and Israel.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

I wasn't aware of who Ghost C was directing his question toward, as I saw someone else reply to it. As for the oil, there were interviews with troops who have to protect the derek's and the contruction workers who work there, and build the derek's. They were complaining that the soldiers themselves are only making about 4000 dollars a month, whereas the contruction workers that they're protecting are making 7000-8000 dollars a month. And yes, they are all American. As for citing my sources, most of it has been seen through film, (3 or 4) but the only one I can site off-hand would be Farenheit 9/11. And don't think I'm left-wing; I'm horribly Anti-Bush. That's it. I'll go for a right wing president, but he has to know what he wants to do and clearly state that (and not say "smoke em out" or "get em" or "i'll do that" without saying what, where, and why) what they're goals are. It just seems that Goerge Bush has kept the reason but he's never made it clear what they did, why hes doing it, and what he plans on doing. It's like hes prayed on the fear of terrorism to get to where he wants to go, and get what he wants. And I'm sorry I don't compulsively monitor this thread to see what happens every second so that I can reply to it. [/end sarcasm]

 

[Ghost C]

I wasn't aware of who Ghost C was directing his question toward, as I saw someone else reply to it. As for the oil, there were interviews with troops who have to protect the derek's and the contruction workers who work there, and build the derek's. They were complaining that the soldiers themselves are only making about 4000 dollars a month, whereas the contruction workers that they're protecting are making 7000-8000 dollars a month. And yes, they are all American. As for citing my sources, most of it has been seen through film, (3 or 4) but the only one I can site off-hand would be Farenheit 9/11. And don't think I'm left-wing; I'm horribly Anti-Bush. That's it. I'll go for a right wing president, but he has to know what he wants to do and clearly state that (and not say "smoke em out" or "get em" or "i'll do that" without saying what, where, and why) what they're goals are. It just seems that Goerge Bush has kept the reason but he's never made it clear what they did, why hes doing it, and what he plans on doing. It's like hes prayed on the fear of terrorism to get to where he wants to go, and get what he wants. And I'm sorry I don't compulsively monitor this thread to see what happens every second so that I can reply to it. [/end sarcasm]

So you cite Farenheit 9/11 as your source of facts, and then expect people to take you seriously?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[the Interceptor]

PublicSecrecy, don't ever come with any arguments coming from Michael Moore. His reputation has been totally destroyed in the US, cause it was the easiest way to make him look like a liar. It's interesting to see that a man that's actually fighting for the rights of his fellow citizens is being destroyed because of his anti-Bush propaganda ... land of the free eh?

 

[///M-Spec]

It's interesting to see that a man that's actually fighting for the rights of his fellow citizens is being destroyed because of his anti-Bush propaganda

Are you familiar with what a right actually is? Because it sounds like you aren't.

... land of the free eh?

In a free society, people are free to believe what they want to believe. The freedom that Michael Moore enjoys is the same freedom that everyone else enjoys. He can make his propaganda films. We can choose to believe him or not.

"Land of the free" applies to everyone here, not to just people who make movies.


M

 

[Danoff]

They were complaining that the soldiers themselves are only making about 4000 dollars a month, whereas the contruction workers that they're protecting are making 7000-8000 dollars a month. And yes, they are all American.

You couldn't get me to work in Iraq for 8k a month. What is that? 96k/year? Not even six figures to work in what amounts to a combat zone. Forget it.

Soldiers know what they'll get paid when they VOLUNTEER. Construction workers know what they'll get paid when they VOLUNTEER. I don't think any of them asked for enough money, but then... my perception is skewed by my ability to make money without working in a combat zone.

 

[Duke]

PublicSecrecy, don't ever come with any arguments coming from Michael Moore. His reputation has been totally destroyed in the US, cause it was the easiest way to make him look like a liar. It's interesting to see that a man that's actually fighting for the rights of his fellow citizens is being destroyed because of his anti-Bush propaganda ... land of the free eh?

His reputation has been totally destroyed by his own actions. Just because you call a film a 'documentary' doesn't mean it's not a wild collection of untruths, half-truths, and totally unsupported conjecture. It just means you'll say anything to get a rise out of people.

If you believe a word Michael Moore says, it's because you'll believe anything that happens to be anti-Establishment. Don't blame the rest of us for being a little more critical in our thinking.

 

[Cancooni]

It's only a matter of time before Iran is invaded... oh, sorry... "liberated". There are already news reports of covert ops going on in Iran to determine military targets. How many more soldiers will Bush send to their pointless deaths in the name of imperialism?

 

[Danoff]

How many more soldiers will Bush send to their pointless deaths

Pointless?

in the name of imperialism?

Are you familiar with America or what is going on in Iraq?

It's only a matter of time before Iran is invaded... oh, sorry... "liberated"

Do you not think Iraqis were liberated? They were being oppressed by a violent dictator. Now they are free and will have democratic elections. What else would you call that besides being liberated?

 

[Cancooni]

Pointless?



Are you familiar with America or what is going on in Iraq?



Do you not think Iraqis were liberated? They were being oppressed by a violent dictator. Now they are free and will have democratic elections. What else would you call that besides being liberated?

America... in fact no one was threatened by Iraq.

There are far worse leaders than Saddam in the world... but Iraq has oil. Coincidence.

I am familiar with America & Iraq. I read 2 papers a day. I also watch the BBC world news nightly... which is a little more objective than yee ole CNN.

Were there any other questions?