- 8,723
The Sound Update Thread (The Return)
- Thread starter TayeezSA
- 1,178 comments
- 147,311 views
- 1,245
I can't remember what car it's on, but it's one of those really generic, buzzing, whirring engine noises used on a race car of some sort. A perhaps more well documented example of this is the Ford Mk. IV in GT5 and GT6 using the same airy, loopy V8 sample as the GT40 in GT2. See also the Fiat Coupé, Viper GTS, the JGTC Skylines.
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- 35
- South Carolina
- NivekRJ
- KevinNightOwl
One of GT's biggest issues is its upgrade sounds.
Their samples, in general, aren't good... at least at higher RPM. With cruising speeds and a clutch + h-shifter, you get some pretty good results.
But back to the issue at hand. If their upgrade sounds didn't go from having a V8, to having a V6, to having a V8 again, to having an I4, it wouldn't be so bad. I'm hoping AES will solve this problem once and for all. There's really no reason it shouldn't.
This may sound a bit far-fetched, but bear with me. Let's think of a music synthesizer. Put in 8 notes, toggle repeat or loop, and hit play. What happens? Those same 8 notes play over and over, until you hit pause or stop. You can change the pitch, tone, tempo, and timing of these notes, all you want, but there will still only be 8 notes. Of course, AES is a LOT more complicated than that, but it is the basic of how a synth works. V8s will always be V8s, because that's how they were programmed into the system. That is... unless something goes horribly wrong during data input.
In either case, I'm really excited to hear how much AES has evolved.
Their samples, in general, aren't good... at least at higher RPM. With cruising speeds and a clutch + h-shifter, you get some pretty good results.
But back to the issue at hand. If their upgrade sounds didn't go from having a V8, to having a V6, to having a V8 again, to having an I4, it wouldn't be so bad. I'm hoping AES will solve this problem once and for all. There's really no reason it shouldn't.
This may sound a bit far-fetched, but bear with me. Let's think of a music synthesizer. Put in 8 notes, toggle repeat or loop, and hit play. What happens? Those same 8 notes play over and over, until you hit pause or stop. You can change the pitch, tone, tempo, and timing of these notes, all you want, but there will still only be 8 notes. Of course, AES is a LOT more complicated than that, but it is the basic of how a synth works. V8s will always be V8s, because that's how they were programmed into the system. That is... unless something goes horribly wrong during data input.
In either case, I'm really excited to hear how much AES has evolved.
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- 647
- Zagreb
- johnwalter1044
I've actually figured out that the Forza 6, in this situation has better sound all together.
Only Gran Turismo 6 is lacking the numerous sounds that are happening when you're driving which Forza 6 has. Gran Turismo 6 does have better engine noise, but Forza 6 has all the noises as far i can tell, which in the end sound better.
- 35
- South Carolina
- NivekRJ
- KevinNightOwl
Two things.
1. We've yet to hear AES's full potential. In order to get it to work on PS3, PD had to disable a ton of its code.
2. In my opinion, a better example of AES is the VW Vision GT. The engine speed changes too quickly, when neutral revving, but other than that... it sounds great.
1. We've yet to hear AES's full potential. In order to get it to work on PS3, PD had to disable a ton of its code.
2. In my opinion, a better example of AES is the VW Vision GT. The engine speed changes too quickly, when neutral revving, but other than that... it sounds great.
- 356
- Kuwait
I have nice thing for everyone 
I've made a 30 episodes of engines sounds collection for FM4
Most videos - each by about over 8 mins with about 5 or 6 cars per video
I think i've uploaded over 100 cars sounds from FM4 X)
Here is a link to start it all ^^
At 60 FPS HD ^^
And a best engines sounds collection video
If GTS & GT7 are going to be like this then i'll say this ( Shut it & take my money !! ) LOL
I've made a 30 episodes of engines sounds collection for FM4
Most videos - each by about over 8 mins with about 5 or 6 cars per video
I think i've uploaded over 100 cars sounds from FM4 X)
Here is a link to start it all ^^
At 60 FPS HD ^^
And a best engines sounds collection video
If GTS & GT7 are going to be like this then i'll say this ( Shut it & take my money !! ) LOL
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- 24
- Warwickshire/UK
You think those are good? Check out DiRT Rally. No need to stick shed loads of post processed distortion to make things sound powerful!
Additional bonus points for managing to blend the audio into the environment too!
Additional bonus points for managing to blend the audio into the environment too!
- 4,992
- Nowhere special
- SweetLilPoppet
- SweetLilPoppet
The reason I can't stand fm4 sounds these days.
You are 100% right about those dirt rally sounds. Used to think that raceroom was sound king, but this games kinda takes the crown now imo
- 24
- Warwickshire/UK
Yep, like everyone who doesn't have a Sony or Microsoft budget, we have to re-use where we can and we do have to share recordings between vehicles. We do reiterate on the post-processing/editing when we get the time, but certainly not re-record if the recording is good. That Mini is an early 1960's (63 iirc) came 3rd in the Monte Carlo rally. It was actually recorded for DiRT 3.
- 1,492
- Germany
- KiroKai
- KiroKai
I... I did not realise who I'm replying to.
You do awesome work!!Edit: I should've given more detail, I didn't mean the similarity to be something negative. Many seem to excuse GT's sounds by blaming hardware, but I think you did a much better job and your games have to run on PS3 too. GT is very much guilty of recycling sounds as well and the sound changes with custom exhausts are a mess.
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- 356
- Kuwait
@madfiddler
I think it's unfair to compare a PC game to a console game since PC gives better expansions for game quality.
Most of the racing games lately when talking about engines sounds - i see the people quickly bringing PC racing simulations - which is unfair compared to consoles limits.
I've been listening & driving cars in real life.
i've listened to many cars from V4 to V12 - Rotary - I5 - I4.
I can understand the difference between a computer processed & the different sounding point of the car from inside & out, and also understand that a certain kinds of exhausts depending on the installed parts can change how the car sounds - sounds of turbos - supercharges.
When i listened to different kinds of video games engines sounds - i always notice a wrong shifting sounds like engine lags weirdly like strange pitched noises absordly changing - others tend to make good sounds from far but also has the same issue on engine RPMs - some games tends to make excellent sound inside the car - but for a game at it's time i see Forza 4 did enough to satisfy the players on the majority of cars selection which was over 400 if i'm not mistaken
Sure newer games improved certain points on the engines sounds at different positions - but in my opinion - i see that Forza 4 dispite being distorted - but that is how it will sound to the camera when the car is too close to the mics - heck i saw them digging the mics inside a flame throwing exhaust of Ferrari F40 which can be the reason for the distortion X)
I remember a game in the PSX ( the video is for the PC version while as i see - the 2 versions are almost the same based on the engines sounds ) which got a good sounds for it's time made by Codemasters
Skip to 0:20 secs & listen to the car when the light goes green - THAT transmission sound is awesome at it's time & when the camera is inside the car - you can hear the engine nicely ^^
Skip to 8:40 for inside car camera view
I think it's unfair to compare a PC game to a console game since PC gives better expansions for game quality.
Most of the racing games lately when talking about engines sounds - i see the people quickly bringing PC racing simulations - which is unfair compared to consoles limits.
I've been listening & driving cars in real life.
i've listened to many cars from V4 to V12 - Rotary - I5 - I4.
I can understand the difference between a computer processed & the different sounding point of the car from inside & out, and also understand that a certain kinds of exhausts depending on the installed parts can change how the car sounds - sounds of turbos - supercharges.
When i listened to different kinds of video games engines sounds - i always notice a wrong shifting sounds like engine lags weirdly like strange pitched noises absordly changing - others tend to make good sounds from far but also has the same issue on engine RPMs - some games tends to make excellent sound inside the car - but for a game at it's time i see Forza 4 did enough to satisfy the players on the majority of cars selection which was over 400 if i'm not mistaken
Sure newer games improved certain points on the engines sounds at different positions - but in my opinion - i see that Forza 4 dispite being distorted - but that is how it will sound to the camera when the car is too close to the mics - heck i saw them digging the mics inside a flame throwing exhaust of Ferrari F40 which can be the reason for the distortion X)
I remember a game in the PSX ( the video is for the PC version while as i see - the 2 versions are almost the same based on the engines sounds ) which got a good sounds for it's time made by Codemasters
Skip to 0:20 secs & listen to the car when the light goes green - THAT transmission sound is awesome at it's time & when the camera is inside the car - you can hear the engine nicely ^^
Skip to 8:40 for inside car camera view
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
@madfiddler
I think it's unfair to compare a PC game to a console game since PC gives better expansions for game quality.
Most of the racing games lately when talking about engines sounds - i see the people quickly bringing PC racing simulations - which is unfair compared to consoles limits.
I've been listening & driving cars in real life.
i've listened to many cars from V4 to V12 - Rotary - I5 - I4.
I can understand the difference between a computer processed & the different sounding point of the car from inside & out, and also understand that a certain kinds of exhausts depending on the installed parts can change how the car sounds - sounds of turbos - supercharges.
When i listened to different kinds of video games engines sounds - i always notice a wrong shifting sounds like engine lags weirdly like strange pitched noises absordly changing - others tend to make good sounds from far but also has the same issue on engine RPMs - some games tends to make excellent sound inside the car - but for a game at it's time i see Forza 4 did enough to satisfy the players on the majority of cars selection which was over 400 if i'm not mistaken
Sure newer games improved certain points on the engines sounds at different positions - but in my opinion - i see that Forza 4 dispite being distorted - but that is how it will sound to the camera when the car is too close to the mics - heck i saw them digging the mics inside a flame throwing exhaust of Ferrari F40 which can be the reason for the distortion X)
I remember a game in the PSX ( the video is for the PC version while as i see - the 2 versions are almost the same based on the engines sounds ) which got a good sounds for it's time made by Codemasters
Skip to 0:20 secs & listen to the car when the light goes green - THAT transmission sound is awesome at it's time & when the camera is inside the car - you can hear the engine nicely ^^
Skip to 8:40 for inside car camera view
A PS4 and a gaming pc are without a doubt comparable. The PS4, especially when a game is well optimized as we would expect GTSport to be, is at least equivalent to a mid-range gaming pc and maybe better and I would suspect at least equal to the machinery that many pc gamers are currently playing on.
- 24
- Warwickshire/UK
Well you'll all be happily surprised when the PS4 and XBone versions come out soon then @ZEROTHEKNIGHT . I didn't see any mention of format in your post, it just showing "a best engine sounds video". HOWEVER....... 
From our point of view, historically there has been no difference between our PC and console releases. The X360 used to be our lead audio development platform, with the PS3 and PC versions coming from that (we never had time to do improve the PC aside from losing compression on the samples), and this time we did have the PC as lead audio development platform but the new consoles are pretty much PC's anyway, and there's virtually no difference in the audio again. In a nutshell, what you hear on PC DiRT Rally, you'll hear in the console versions.
@KiroKai - I didn't have a lot to do with the latest DiRT (I lead DiRT2 and 3), but I will take the credit for the massive improvements in audio that we've made since I joined Codies in 2007, right at the end of GRID. Employing the right people, implementing the right technology, ditching our existing car audio library and starting again are a massive part of this.
As an aside, I was actually one of the people Polyphony interviewed for the sound position. Having travelled to a different country for the interview, they didn't even bother to let me know I hadn't got the gig - even after chasing. I found out on Facebook when Mike posted that he'd got it.
From our point of view, historically there has been no difference between our PC and console releases. The X360 used to be our lead audio development platform, with the PS3 and PC versions coming from that (we never had time to do improve the PC aside from losing compression on the samples), and this time we did have the PC as lead audio development platform but the new consoles are pretty much PC's anyway, and there's virtually no difference in the audio again. In a nutshell, what you hear on PC DiRT Rally, you'll hear in the console versions.
@KiroKai - I didn't have a lot to do with the latest DiRT (I lead DiRT2 and 3), but I will take the credit for the massive improvements in audio that we've made since I joined Codies in 2007, right at the end of GRID. Employing the right people, implementing the right technology, ditching our existing car audio library and starting again are a massive part of this.
As an aside, I was actually one of the people Polyphony interviewed for the sound position. Having travelled to a different country for the interview, they didn't even bother to let me know I hadn't got the gig - even after chasing. I found out on Facebook when Mike posted that he'd got it.
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- 356
- Kuwait
I
If you can't see it - Write this ( Forza Motorsport 4 - Engines Sounds Collection ) on youtube
Or you know ... I'll post it again here just in case X)
About comparison - Xbox 360 & PS3 were still having issues with performence compared to PC on certain games if i'm not mistaken.
The PS3 & Xbox 360 are from 2005 & 2006.
Comparing Dirt to Forza 4 which was on a 2005 hardware appeared to me as unfair X)
But for Xbone - i never mentioned FM5 & FM6 since FM4 to me was the last good Forza & listened to the later Forza titles compared to FM4 - to me FM4 is still the best Forza in engines sounds - the Quattro S1 inside engine sound is INSANE in FM4 X)
If we talk about FM5 & FM6 on current gen XBone - that works for gaming performence but in my opinion Forza Motorsport 4 was the best in engines sounds compared to other Forza titles
@Johnnypenso
Might be true for PS4 & XBone but FM4 was on Xbox 360 which has a hardware from i think 2005 X)
Edit : fixed a certain mistakes in the statement X)
I can see the engines sounds collection video there.Well you'll all be happily surprised when the PS4 and XBone versions come out soon then @ZEROTHEKNIGHT . I didn't see any mention of format in your post, it just showing "a best engine sounds video". HOWEVER.......
From our point of view, historically there has been no difference between our PC and console releases. The X360 used to be our lead audio development platform, with the PS4 and PC versions coming from that (we never had time to do improve the PC aside from losing compression on the samples), and this time we did have the PC as lead audio development platform but the new consoles are pretty much PC's anyway, and there's virtually no difference in the audio again. In a nutshell, what you hear on PC DiRT Rally, you'll hear in the console versions.
@KiroKai - I didn't have a lot to do with the latest DiRT (I lead DiRT2 and 3), but I will take the credit for the massive improvements in audio that we've made since I joined Codies in 2007, right at the end of GRID. Employing the right people, implementing the right technology, ditching our existing car audio library and starting again are a massive part of this.
As an aside, I was actually one of the people Polyphony interviewed for the sound position. Having travelled to a different country for the interview, they didn't even bother to let me know I hadn't got the gig - even after chasing. I found out on Facebook when Mike posted that he'd got it.
If you can't see it - Write this ( Forza Motorsport 4 - Engines Sounds Collection ) on youtube
Or you know ... I'll post it again here just in case X)
About comparison - Xbox 360 & PS3 were still having issues with performence compared to PC on certain games if i'm not mistaken.
The PS3 & Xbox 360 are from 2005 & 2006.
Comparing Dirt to Forza 4 which was on a 2005 hardware appeared to me as unfair X)
But for Xbone - i never mentioned FM5 & FM6 since FM4 to me was the last good Forza & listened to the later Forza titles compared to FM4 - to me FM4 is still the best Forza in engines sounds - the Quattro S1 inside engine sound is INSANE in FM4 X)
If we talk about FM5 & FM6 on current gen XBone - that works for gaming performence but in my opinion Forza Motorsport 4 was the best in engines sounds compared to other Forza titles
@Johnnypenso
Might be true for PS4 & XBone but FM4 was on Xbox 360 which has a hardware from i think 2005 X)
Edit : fixed a certain mistakes in the statement X)
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- 3,100
- Sweden
@madfiddler - Thanks for not murdering the beautiful sound of the Quattro S1. Also, say hi to @anim8r_uk if he's still around.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
To me the GT sound is more like something a D grade modder made for a pc game just so he could say he made the engine sounds. It's completely devoid of all character and sounds like someone just running up and down a pitch scale in a completely linear fashion. When Kaz said the sounds were "too perfect", this is what I think he was talking about. The Forza sample may not be accurate for that car, but at least it sounds like an actual race car. The GT sample reminds me of this:
- 397
- Croatia
- GTEFGHA
Yep exactly like that, im hoping that is gonna change since they have hired ex forza sound guy to do sounds now
- 24
- Warwickshire/UK
Ha - couldn't do that. It's my favourite sounding car, more-so than my own beloved Scooby
We have a couple of Quattros including Walter Röhrl's (which he destroyed by it was rebuilt for historical reasons, being a development car for a double clutch system) which was recorded back in the day for DiRT2. Not sure who anim8r_uk could be...
- 24
- Warwickshire/UK
- 3,100
- Sweden
Would you guys be willing to send those recordings to PD? And possibly a pair of hearing aids too?Ha - couldn't do that. It's my favourite sounding car, more-so than my own beloved Scooby
Ah, that would explain his absence after G:AS's release.
- 24
- Warwickshire/UK
- 770
I just came up to this video & makes me wonder what part of how a real car souns PD doesn't understand lol. I wish the new sounds are gonna be a little closer to that he needs some work on the gear changing part though
- 3,280
- France
Well, a french sound designer working for Sector 3 (R3E) has passed a job interview with Kaz in November 2014 in Amsterdam. But he didn't get the job...
More details at question 13 for French speaking.
http://www.team-gtr3.fr/viewtopic.php?t=367
More details at question 13 for French speaking.
http://www.team-gtr3.fr/viewtopic.php?t=367
